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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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NessAtc.

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Because 1st party characters are seemingly playing by the rules of "Free promotion for current console gen games", while 3rd parties aren't.

Why do you think that discussion about 1st party characters has basically dried up as of late and looked at as a more "Meh" tone? Most people at the moment believe that if any 1st party character gets in as CP11, it won't be someone like Isaac, or Dixie, or BWD, or Chorus Kids, etc.

It'd be someone like a Gen 8 Pokemon.
You're right, they don't have to follow this trend, but if you'd ask most people, I'd wager their outlook on things changing is anything but positive.
"seemingly"

Yeah just like how Pass 1 was "seemingly" all third party. That turned out well, didn't it?

We have ABSOLUTELY ZERO "recent first parties" left. NONE. ZILCH. NADA. **** ALL. They've literally all been spirited. Gen 8 Pokemon? Got a tournament, got spirits, got another tournament, and then we got a pokemon anniversary tournament. Dead. to. Rights. And I have zero idea why on earth this is the ONE exception to the "post launch event" rule, and zero idea why you all think it'd be at the end, and not at FP9, months after Gen 8's DLC properly concluded, with Pyra and Mythra at the end instead. You know, like how Greninja and Shulk were arranged the same way?

Astral Chain? Spirited. Gone.
Ditto for Ring Fit.

There's literally nothing left. Which is why y'all are absolutely convinced it MUST be SMTV, or Phoenix Wright, or whatever. Because these are the bottom of the barrel **** that you have concluded MUST be the outcome, because you've eliminated actual reasonable stuff already within the base game, IN SPITE of the majority of our pass being exactly that; stuff that was already in the game.
 

Idon

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Well let's see as far as "historic" RPGs go that people generally talk about in relation to Smash,

Sega:
* Phantasy Star (1987), though it's main series hasn't gotten a true sequel in 20 years or so and it lives on through Phantasy Star Online and other spinoffs, with PSO2:NG being their next "big thing."​
Atlus (Sega):
* Shin Megami Tensei (1992), their most consistent title and one that's finally getting a big resurgence after nearly 20 years following SMT3 of being relatively low-key and especially overshadowed by modern Persona.​
Falcom:
* Trails (2004) but if you include Legend of Heroes which the series was originally a part of, Dragon Slayer (1992), still their premier JRPG series which is growing larger every year, though localizations Westward are... slow to say the least.​
* Ys (1987), their ARPG series which is still getting games today. Quite consistently popular, though not often a headliner.​
Bamco:
* Tales of (1995), Bamco's premier RPG series and still a massive hit to this day. Has a recent entry coming up to boot.​

And of course a litany of defunct RPGs:
Breath of Fire (Capcom)
Suikoden (Konami)
Xenosaga (Bamco)
Chrono (Squeenix)
Sakura Wars (Sega)

So, with all this in mind, and the fact Tales of is probably out for now, I can safely say SMT...

has a shot.

maybe.
 

Shroob

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"seemingly"

Yeah just like how Pass 1 was "seemingly" all third party. That turned out well, didn't it?

We have ABSOLUTELY ZERO "recent first parties" left. NONE. ZILCH. NADA. **** ALL. They've literally all been spirited. Gen 8 Pokemon? Got a tournament, got spirits, got another tournament, and then we got a pokemon anniversary tournament. Dead. to. Rights. And I have zero idea why on earth this is the ONE exception to the "post launch event" rule, and zero idea why you all think it'd be at the end, and not at FP9, months after Gen 8's DLC properly concluded, with Pyra and Mythra at the end instead. You know, like how Greninja and Shulk were arranged the same way?

Astral Chain? Spirited. Gone.
Ditto for Ring Fit.

There's literally nothing left. Which is why y'all are absolutely convinced it MUST be SMTV, or Phoenix Wright, or whatever. Because these are the bottom of the barrel **** that you have concluded MUST be the outcome, because you've eliminated actual reasonable stuff already within the base game, IN SPITE of the majority of our pass being exactly that; stuff that was already in the game.
Calm down, fella. It's just a game.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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I can see an even stronger shift in the next Smash game if the strategy for the Switch 2 (or equivalent) is to have it backwards compatible. Still being able to play Ultimate with all of its characters would at least given Nintendo some cover in going with a different direction as far as roster focus. Won't stop all the complaints, but having two different style Smash titles side by side would give the audience some choice.
 
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TheFirstPoppyBro

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some people like to think they’re new because they didn’t appear in pass 1. Others think they’re not. Realistically they’re not new to the pass so we’ve had 0 new company’s but it can work either way.

either way a new company being last is high.
Except it literally can't because Namco's not been a "new company" since Pac-Man got added last game? That's why I personally don't get this "Namco is new because they weren't in the first pass" thing.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Y'know, I'm considering getting in to the RPGs so does anyone have a good recommendation on how to get the original? It's not on Steam as it's a Master System game
Wasn't it on Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection(360 and PS3)? If so, that's a way to play it. Assuming you have those systems, at least.

Otherwise, I got nothing.

...And then LiveStudioAudience LiveStudioAudience Greninja's me. XD
 
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NessAtc.

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Calm down, fella. It's just a game.
Yes, it is. And so, I'm not sure why you're taking this "realistic" approach so close to heart. Live a little, commit to something you believe in, not something everyone else believes in. There's no fun in the latter whatsoever. Absolutely zero.

I'm not expecting him by any means. I do think I'm getting screwed. However, the idea that the ballot "isn't a factor", or the fact that a further first party MUST be a "shill" irks me. Nobody can possibly know either of those factors, it's pure assumption based on pessimism. You're not going to die if you're grossly incorrect.
 

Shroob

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Yes, it is. And so, I'm not sure why you're taking this "realistic" approach so close to heart. Live a little, commit to something you believe in, not something everyone else believes in. There's no fun in the latter whatsoever. Absolutely zero.

I'm not expecting him by any means. I do think I'm getting screwed. However, the idea that the ballot "isn't a factor", or the fact that a further first party MUST be a "shill" irks me. Nobody can possibly know either of those factors, it's pure assumption based on pessimism. You're not going to die if you're grossly incorrect.
I am committing to something I believe in.


I don't think we're getting any non-Switch era 1st parties.
 
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pupNapoleon

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some people like to think they’re new because they didn’t appear in pass 1. Others think they’re not. Realistically they’re not new to the pass so we’ve had 0 new company’s but it can work either way.

either way a new company being last is high.
I mean, "is the company new to Smash bros?" seems to be what is meant when asked if a company is new; the question isn't, 'is this a new company for this pass.'
Just the same with pass one. Microsoft and SNK were new- Nintendo, Sega, and Square Enix were not new.
Even by your own standards, your statement doesn't make sense, because Sega and Square Enix did not get new base game characters, so they would be as 'new' to Smash Pass 1 as Namco is 'new' to Smash Pass 2, by your own metric.
So we would have, by this logic, FOUR new companies in the first pass, and ONE in the second.
 
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subterrestrial

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I just think it’s funny that people bring up conspiracy theories as to how and why Bayonetta didn’t do well and win the ballot when the only official information we have is that she did well in it. Bayonetta won the final DLC spot for Sm4sh that should be it, end of story, but for some reason Smash Fans need some sort of affirmation that the character they didn’t want wasn’t popular. It’s intriguing to put it lightly.
calling something a conspiracy theory doesnt make it untrue

bayo was added before the ballot even concluded, lmao this is public info at this point I recommend researching the sm4sh datamine.

lol nintendo literally funded and published the release of bayo 2 idk why people cant connect the dots
 
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Shroob

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You'll forgive me if I call you out and say I really don't believe you when you say you believe in it. But whatever.
I mean, I do. I don't see why that's hard to believe.


Ultimate launched with 0 Switch-Era characters besides Link getting a re-design and 3~ Switch-era stages. The DLC has given us 3(4) characters and 3 new stages, which has basically doubled the Switch-era representation. For all intents and purposes, the DLC has kept Smash feeling relevant in regards to Nintendo's library of games by adding more modern characters, which happily act as advertisement.


I'd like more older era Nintendo characters sure, but Nintendo's Nintendo, and they picked the DLC, not Sakurai.
 

pupNapoleon

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And the next game will also have a significantly higher number of cuts than any Smash game before. Remember that a no-cut scenario means that all 17 third-party fighters will have to be renegotiated for. Also, just because two characters are owned by the same company, that doesn't mean that licensing one would make licensing the other difficult, so no, :ultjoker: is not automatically easier or likelier to come back just because :ultsonic: is likely to come back due to the logic that they are owned by Sega. That is not how negotiations work.
It's possible that all the characters in this game were negotiated to be in future games, as well. I'm fairly certain this is what happened with Sm4sh- particularly the newcomers. I cannot fathom that Nintendo approached these companies for characters in Sm4sh, and- knowing another Smash game was going to go straight into development once Sm4sh stopped- did not negotiate for them to be in both.

There is a whole theory in story arcs which is applicable to the MCU, and it is applicable here. Every episode cannot be bigger than the previous- at some point, that loses all stakes. At some point, the direction has to veer, rather than expand. (I truly wish I could remember the wording, it is much more expressive than my words are here).
 

pupNapoleon

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everyone acts like issac is the only nintendo rpg character not playable and forgets the protag of the best selling new rpg series of the past decade(no disrespect to issac wanters ofc)

see you in smash 6!
I am the one that brought up Isaac as the only non-repped Nintendo RPG (in addition to Fossil Fighters), so let me comment.
I am just running off the historic aspect. I've actually mentioned, many times, that I think Dragaux is a likely candidate for the last fighter.
And yes, I absolutely would put my money on Dragaux over the Adventurer.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I don't think a 1st party is likely either. Gen 8 is the only Pokemon game with a decent chance(due to fitting the timing), and it's the only when where the normal second set of games(the sequels) got put into as DLC. I was expecting a spirit event even if it got a playable character, just to get more spirits from the games put in since it's already DLC(and when did we ever get Pokeball DLC Pokemon? It could happen, and maybe that's why "it's taking a while". I'm more joking on the Pokeball stuff, though).

Isaac? Yeah, I'm not seeing it. Unless we get a GS announcement and no Smash announcement yet(to keep the suspense) in the next Direct, well. We already saw that the so-called trademark for GS led to nothing yet, with our first Camelot thing in a while a Mario Tennis game.

Next game, maybe. If a new GS exists. Or there's enough time and no other relevant characters to add. So more of a surprise character or just a fan favorite, etc. Though to be fair, only BK kind of fell into that category of no relevance(and we can't say it being a business model for Microsoft via Rare Replay actually mattered. It's implied it might've played a role, since Sakurai directly advertises it, but that's just a guess. He'd do so anyway cause he isn't trying to play company favorites. He doesn't like console wars. At least Nintendo and Microsoft had to have okayed the idea, but that doesn't mean it correlates, you know?)
 
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Cutie Gwen

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You'll forgive me if I call you out and say I really don't believe you when you say you believe in it. But whatever.
Saying "Believe in what you think is true" and then going "Nuh uh you don't ACTUALLY believe it" is pretty much the same as if someone said you don't actually think Isaac is likely but are instead just really desperate tbh
why are the ring fit person's eyes squares.

cursed
My god, it was a hint for a Square character, someone call El Grande Padre di Jenos
I mean, I do. I don't see why that's hard to believe.


Ultimate launched with 0 Switch-Era characters besides Link getting a re-design and 3~ Switch-era stages. The DLC has given us 3(4) characters and 3 new stages, which has basically doubled the Switch-era representation. For all intents and purposes, the DLC has kept Smash feeling relevant in regards to Nintendo's library of games by adding more modern characters, which happily act as advertisement.


I'd like more older era Nintendo characters sure, but Nintendo's Nintendo, and they picked the DLC, not Sakurai.
Hell, one can even argue Smash 4 supports this as the only DLC Nintendo characters that weren't from recent titles were veterans and a character with signs of being incomplete for launch and postponed as DLC
 

Jondolio

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I believe in being pessimistic to avoid disappointment. I've already seen what blind optimism leads to thanks to the Grinch leak.
That and I genuinely believe we're getting a Pokémon, spirit event be damned
 

Willbuysmash4mw

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Also, yes, Atlus did see a ****ton of success in 2017. From Persona 5. And Nintendo acted on it. They could care less about SMT mainline, and Atlus themselves barely do anyway. That's why there's such a long gap between games; Atlus would rather direct the personnel over to P-Studio than Zero Team. Persona 5's success means absolutely nothing for SMT.
This is a hilariously bad take. Nintendo is marketing the hell out of SMT V and so is Atlus, even more than Persona 5 got on its release year.
MegaTen already has a rep. Golden Sun doesn't.
Joker is a Megaten rep but he came to Smash as a modern Persona rep. The missing Jack Frost and overall just missing SMT content in Smash in general means Nahobino will be the Megaten rep. Once Metroid Dread comes out and the dub for SMT V is revealed(most likely during this direct to cause the most commotion for the game)SMT V will be the most advertised Switch game for the year(depending on what you watch on YouTube you might have already seen the Switch commercial featuring SMT V that started airing at the end of August).
Bro.... no.
If we are going to do comparisons... let's compare Nintendo RPGs.
We have EVERY SINGLE Nintendo RPG series (not spinoff) have MULTIPLE characters in Smash. Except for 2.
Fossil Fighter.
Golden Sun.

If we are extending to third parties, when does the list ever stop? There will always be a 'next most influential/top selling' RPG after all the ones in. It is ad infinum. There is not a barrier short of 'total number of RPG series ever made.'

Let's go back to home. Let's get Isaac.
They need to revive Golden Sun first.

After that a Golden Sun character will be get into the base roster of a future Smash game.
quite high. Higher than people are willing to accept. Pass 1 had 2 new company’s to smash being Microsoft and snk.
Technically Atlus counts.
There's literally nothing left. Which is why y'all are absolutely convinced it MUST be SMTV, or Phoenix Wright, or whatever. Because these are the bottom of the barrel **** that you have concluded MUST be the outcome, because you've eliminated actual reasonable stuff already within the base game, IN SPITE of the majority of our pass being exactly that; stuff that was already in the game.
Nahobino is not bottom of the barrel at all. Not only will we get a great character that will likely be top tier, but the music and the stage and marketing benefit for Atlus and Nintendo will be fantastic(and SMT will actually add more Smash players even beyond the ones who joined because of Joker).

Most of the pass was not already in Smash btw. Steve wasn’t, Sephiroth wasn’t and Kazuya wasn’t.
 

WeirdChillFever

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It’s hard to say what Nintendo will do. On one hand, they pick the characters, Smash 4 ended specifically on a recent characters and we have seen first party titles on the Switch get a nod. On the other hand, Nintendo doesn’t always pick the shilliest option and picked characters like Banjo as much as they picked Byleth and Spirit Events already support recent releases in a way Smash 4’s post-game support didn’t have that.

Three Houses was also a big title, the likes of which we haven’t seen this year. To pick a character from a recent title we’d either have to be much more on-the-edge with the timing and nominate games like Metroid Dread, which release much later than six months before the character is revealed, or go back in time and look at…honestly I don’t know a game big enough that’s more recent than Xeno2 that wasn’t Spirited. Spirits again represent another way to represent what’s coming around. I guess Luigi’s Mansion 3 could count but at that point you’re going so far back you might as well bring in a Champion or something Star Allies if you want people to be able to play as the latest Smash challenger.

In himdsight, Corrin’s inclusion wasn’t a leap of faith based on the knowledge that they’d miss the boat the next game along with the rest of the characters released in a five-year period, but only was one of a select pool of characters that would’ve been stuck between a rock and a hard place for a game that started development the minute they’d be released. Smash Ultimate FP2 might not reserve such a slot because the gap between Ultimate and Gabagool would be more than an awkward gap year so there’d be no huge point in filling the gaps with a specific 202X release in tne same way Corrin was chosen.

Whenever DLC was chosen though, it’s always possible they reserved a slot for something new like they did with Corrin of how base game operates when it comes to Pokémon. It‘d make sense to do so in 2018 when your last character releases in 2021 to cover for the close-to-four-year gap and it’d make sense in 2019 since you’d have a semblance of planning.

Saying that DLC was chosen or decided on early actually helps that imo: DLC wasn’t explicitly announced to be locked in until Fall 2019 iirc, so that final slot could’ve been pencilled in as “Eh, we’ll figure it out” until being locked in once they used their Nintendo foresight to lock it down when DLC was well underway.

Overall, it’s hard to say whether the final slot will follow the way of Smash 4 and fall under the moniker of “Play as the main character of a game you’re playing right now in Smash as well.”

I believe in being pessimistic to avoid disappointment. I've already seen what blind optimism leads to thanks to the Grinch leak.
That and I genuinely believe we're getting a Pokémon, spirit event be damned
I’m hyped for no one, I’d get the same hype for Cinderace as for Crash. I can predict who I want and it wouldn’t get my hopes up. It‘s weird.
 
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MattX20

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"seemingly"

Yeah just like how Pass 1 was "seemingly" all third party. That turned out well, didn't it?

We have ABSOLUTELY ZERO "recent first parties" left. NONE. ZILCH. NADA. **** ALL. They've literally all been spirited. Gen 8 Pokemon? Got a tournament, got spirits, got another tournament, and then we got a pokemon anniversary tournament. Dead. to. Rights. And I have zero idea why on earth this is the ONE exception to the "post launch event" rule, and zero idea why you all think it'd be at the end, and not at FP9, months after Gen 8's DLC properly concluded, with Pyra and Mythra at the end instead. You know, like how Greninja and Shulk were arranged the same way?

Astral Chain? Spirited. Gone.
Ditto for Ring Fit.

There's literally nothing left. Which is why y'all are absolutely convinced it MUST be SMTV, or Phoenix Wright, or whatever. Because these are the bottom of the barrel **** that you have concluded MUST be the outcome, because you've eliminated actual reasonable stuff already within the base game, IN SPITE of the majority of our pass being exactly that; stuff that was already in the game.
Dude, Phoenix Wright is bottom of the barrel? Another FE character would be considered bottom of the barrel at this point. I know a lot of people who would LOVE Phoenix in Smash
 

Jondolio

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I'm not necessarily pessimistic as I am apathetic. I don't think I'll be getting a character I want, but I wouldn't really be unhappy with anyone since the roster is pretty much already as close to perfect as I could realistically hope.
 

Adrianette Bromide

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Soy pessimist: Purposefully hampers their own excitement so they can be a smidgen happy when something good happens and neutral if something bad happens. Is a downer to talk to and doesn't provide any interest to conversations.

Chad optimist: Is naturally optimistic so will look at the bright side of things even if events don't go their way. If things do go their way, they will be pleasantly treated but is always open to trying new things as well.
 

WeirdChillFever

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I don’t think Phoenix Wright was specifically mentioned as bottom-of-the-barrel when it comes to choices in general, just that in the view of recency, using the release of GAA to theorize that Phoenix is our shill rep for the sake of having one is a bit reachy. Y’know, the topic of the post
 

Speed Weed

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Y'know, I'm considering getting in to the RPGs so does anyone have a good recommendation on how to get the original? It's not on Steam as it's a Master System game
As someone else already said, the first one is part of the SEGA AGES line of rereleases for the Switch, which are notable for adding new features and QoL stuff to the original games, so it's a good place to get it.

In addition, the three Mega Drive games are also on that Mega Drive collection on modern platforms, including the Switch.

So basically the entire original quadrilogy is readily available on the Switch
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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Soy pessimist: Purposefully hampers their own excitement so they can be a smidgen happy when something good happens and neutral if something bad happens. Is a downer to talk to and doesn't provide any interest to conversations.
Say what ya want, but I saved myself a good few heartbreaks and disappointments being a pessimist
 
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Jondolio

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I just realized I might be coming off as more pessimistic than I usually am because of reasons that aren't relevant so just to be clear, I will still be performing the DK rap if a character that isn't a Pokémon gets in
 

Dinoman96

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Unpopular opinion: I kinda think we're more likely to get a Pokemon or something over a "smaller" third party IP like Ace Attorney.

I just don't think Nintendo really seems to be interested in small/mid tier IPs from big companies like that, the only real exceptions thus far have been like, Banjo-Kazooie and Bayonetta, the two fan requested ones from the ballot that also happen to blur the line between being first and third party anyways.

Pretty much every other guest series in Smash, from Sonic to Pac-Man to Tekken to Metal Gear to Mega Man to Dragon Quest to Minecraft to Street Fighter to Final Fantasy to Castlevania, are pretty all pretty much the most popular and iconic series from their respective companies. Even someone like Terry at least is SNK's mascot and their most iconic character, and then you also have someone like Joker, who comes from Atlus' most popular IP. In Capcom's case their biggest IPs that don't have a character are Resident Evil and Monster Hunter...and they both seemingly got passed over. And unless the fan demand for Wright was that big (which I doubt), then I don't really see Nintendo showing much interest in it.
 
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