Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SKX31]

this may be fun.

what's the most "niche" character you want in smash?

Hmm...

Guess what?

Time to split!

 

[Arcanir]

Dragon Meter is the only really unique thing Euden could bring to the table, and even then it raises questions about and balancing and scale (in Dragalia Lost canon Dragons are Rathalos-sized, and do not have an NES Ridley-esque smaller version to draw from). There's also a lot of reaching in the Source Gaming moveset, which is kinda my point.

Well, actually...

But in terms of the base form dragons, the game actually implies they can change size. For instance the humanoid dragons are Rathalos sized in gameplay, but in multiple Wyrmprints as human sized. This one with Prometheus and Mym is a good example of that as the former is only shown in gameplay as a big dragon you use like Rathalos while the latter is only depicted as human sized in gameplay and story, yet here both are the same size. Mym herself also shows that they can change forms since she goes from a dragon to a dragon woman at will, so some level of shapeshifting is already allowed in universe. It wouldn't be that hard to handwave it with them saying that whatever dragon they choose changed size for the same of fighting on even ground with the Smashers, particularly since the obvious candidates like Midgardsormr or Brunhilda are more akin to Charizard in shape then a Rathalos so scaling down wouldn't be as much of a complication.

Balancing is something to consider as if it's going to be a meter, it brings with it the question of how it would be implemented and fleshed out.

Conceptually it would be cool. In practice, Midgardsormr's moves are as generic as you could reasonably get from a dragon. Plus there's still the issue of Euden himself being boring as hell. Hero pretty much already did the "normal swordsman with WACKY down B" thing that I'd rather not see twice.

Eh, when I think generic dragon, I'd point more towards something like Charizard (a flying fire-breathing lizard) then Midgardsormr, doing things firing gales of tornadoes or using an AOE blast of wind isn't that generic for a dragon. It's especially the case in the context of Smash which we are arguing under as none of the current draconic candidates we see for Smash use Wind as an option and none of the dragons present do it either (at best you have Charizard's Fly, which is more fiery).

 

[CannonStreak]

Hmm...

Guess what?

Time to split!

Again? Not that I am against him, but how many times are we going to hear of Cortez?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Hmm...

Guess what?

Time to split!

THE TRAPIZUM

IT SPREADS

 

[Idon]

You forgot the fact that he's somehow extremely acrobatic despite the giant armor, which can lead to a really cool-looking moveset.

Personally, I'm a fan of the drill.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Again? Not that I am against him, but how many times are we going to hear of Cortez?

It's time to split. The Cortezposting between two people, that is.

 

[CannonStreak]

It's time to split. The Cortezposting between two people, that is.

Oh brother! Here we go. Again with the splitting, huh?

 

[Louie G.]

what's the most "niche" character you want in smash?

Probably Marina Liteyears from Mischief Makers. One of my favorite designs in any video game and some really fun abilities that I feel would translate super well into the mold of Smash, like her jet propulsion and of course her signature "shake shake" attacks.

She'd be a perfect fit, but there aren't a whole lot of people pushing for new Mischief Makers content in 2021. Would have been nice if she had been fortunate enough to be one of those random Nintendo centric characters to see a major movement, but no cigar. Probably in some alternate universe.

Her rights are also kind of convoluted since the game was a collaboration between Treasure and Enix. Treasure hasn't released a new game in like... 7 years? And I doubt Square Enix has any interest in the franchise. Very slim chance we will ever see Marina again.

Whenever I bring her up though, it's always received well and I learn of a handful of other people who would like to see her. Who knows, maybe we can join together and start a movement? Even a Mii Costume would be a victory in my eyes hahaha

 

[SpecterFlower]

Does Marina Liteyears from Mischief Makers count?

sure lol.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hmm...

Guess what?

Time to split!

Evil Trapezium, log out of SKX31’s account right now

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So what are y'all's remaining Fighter's Pass 2 predictions? My final predictions are Chun-Li, Lloyd or Yuri, and Elma. I truly believe these characters are most likely the final 3 in Fighter's Pass 2 and the game if that's it.

 

[SharkLord]

From the standpoint of someone who mainly knows about Dragalia from a brief surf of the TV Tropes character list:

• Smash has worked with games with simple controls or limited combat animations to draw from. Heck, they've even made the Duck Hunt dog cool. I have faith that if we got Euden, they could make him fun.
• I know that Euden is a swordfighter who can imbue his blade with fire. I believe he's fairly young, and it might just be me but he looks a little shorter than most Smash humans based on the artwork. We could capitalize on that and make him a bit stubbier than the average swordie; Maybe we could make him a more close-range rushdown fighter.
  • We could also emphasize the fire in his attacks, which honestly look pretty cool. Compared to Roy, who only pulls out the flames in a couple attacks, we could have the bulk of Euden's moves be fiery sweeps. Going into the above idea of a shorter reach, we could make up for it by giving the flames their own hitbox; Paltry knockback but still decent damage. Alternatively, we could use this as a justification for high damage output.
• Dragalia has a gacha system, so we could implement a random summon down special like I mentioned earlier. Essentially what happens when you topdeck with Hero, except more streamlined since you immediately skip to the attack. Also there isn't anything extra wacky like Kamikaze, Magic Burst, Hocus Pocus, or whatever.
• And, of course, the Dragon Meter. There's a couple ways we could implement this, I think.
  • The Joker way, with Midgardsormr acting as the Arsene (Funny, Dragalia just got a Persona crossover). Granted, it would also count as a stance swap, so it could be a bit more in-depth than just "haha power boost go brrr." Aside from weak Euden, strong Midgard, we could also make it so that Euden deals strong damage but has low knockback and defense, while Midgard trades speed and damage for high defense and knockback.
  • The above could also work as a more Pokemon Trainer-esque thing, with Euden being able to actively swap out with Midgard. This way we could play up their unique positives and negatives, and it could help make them more balanced than just having Midgard be a power boost that instantly makes you top-tier.
  • We could have Euden do a partial transformation. Probably the least likely aspect, seeing as Corrin's already done such a thing, but I can't resist the idea of growing a dragon fist and belting Mario over the horizon.
  • Midgardsormr could only be a single powerful attack, like with Cloud's Limit Break. Not as cool as a stance swap, but maybe we could make up for it by incorporating multiple dragons somehow?
• Side note, Midgard would have to be scaled down a fair bit. He's a beeg boi. As Arcanir pointed out, apparently dragons can change size, so there could be some precedent to this.
  • Would it be possible to just have a solo Midgardsormr (Downsized, obviously)? I know Euden's the protagonist, but Midgardsormr seems to be the most prominent of the dragons. If Euden's too boring, we could always have the big, awesome dragon instead. Then again, the entire point seems to be the pacts with the dragons, so maybe not.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Treasure hasn't released a new game in like... 7 years? And I doubt Square Enix has any interest in the franchise. Very slim chance we will ever see Marina again

It'll be very difficult for a Treasure character to have a challenger pack like Terry's for this reason, even though it would be cool. Hopefully Ronald McDonald can still be Red or Saki's 4 star spirit.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I gotta say.

I am starting to get annoyed at the use of "generic" as a criticism.

It's just kind of a tacked on word at this point. Overused to the point where it has no meaning anymore.

 

[Faso115]

Do you count as niche if the character is from a high profile series in the west?

Because if so ummm....Call of Duty Soldier?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Do you count as niche if the character is from a high profile series in the west?

No.

Because the sentence directly implies it isn't niche.

Niche is different than regional popularity imo.

 

[SKX31]

THE TRAPIZUM

IT SPREADS

Can confirm, as someone who owned both TS2 and Future Perfect on the GCN (and still have the copies somewhere I believe).

Again? Not that I am against him, but how many times are we going to hear of Cortez?

Evil Trapezium, log out of SKX31’s account right now

Well, consider this: In Future Perfect (where "TIME TO SPLIT" is from) levels often feature Cortez teaming up with his Future / Past self depending on where in the level one is. Early on, Future Cortez helps out the player, later on the player teams up with Past Cortez.

So that begs the question: Am I future Evil Trapezium? Or am I past Evil Trapezium (if that's the case - don't ask how I'd manage to become 4 years younger in the future)? Time travel is one hell of a drug.

So what are y'all's remaining Fighter's Pass 2 predictions? My final predictions are Chun-Li, Lloyd or Yuri, and Elma. I truly believe these characters are most likely the final 3 in Fighter's Pass 2 and the game if that's it.

Okay, to return to seriousness here... I'm going to avoid my usual generalities - for the most part - and try to predict three most likely (hedging my bets a bit still, because the three slots are tightly contested:

• Still on the Dante train, even as he's been staring at the outside going "What the hell is this?" at everyone else getting the invites.
• Gonna guess Reimu due to her likely being very easy to license and having a long-running legacy. Falcom could also be worked in here.
• Another out-of-nowhere pick is kinda likely, so I'm going with either LoL or someone like Bill Rizer. If it's first party... I have no clue which to choose given how sudden Nintendo's own announcements have been, whether characters or Spirit Event.

 

[SharkLord]

Honestly I am kinda interested in how Euden would work. He's pretty simple, but the fire aspects give a neat flair to his strakes and Midgardsormr's wide-reaching wind attacks sound pretty unique. If we go for a more balanced stance-switching idea where Midgard is overall the stronger of the two but both still have their own pros and cons, I think we could get something pretty cool out of it.

 

[Idon]

Eh, when I think generic dragon, I'd point more towards something like Charizard (a flying fire-breathing lizard) then Midgardsormr, doing things firing gales of tornadoes or using an AOE blast of wind isn't that generic for a dragon. It's especially the case in the context of Smash which we are arguing under as none of the current draconic candidates we see for Smash use Wind as an option and none of the dragons present do it either (at best you have Charizard's Fly, which is more fiery).

The thing is they're still generic moves in general. Wind as an element should be more than window-dressing for simple moves. Whenever I've played as Midgardsormr, (which honestly isn't much considering he's a beginner 4 star dragon), it didn't exactly feel like I was doing anything particularly cool or interesting.

As for his boss form AoE screen nuke... I doubt that's making it into a fighting game like Smash.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Personally, I'm a fan of the drill.

I like the one where he scoops you with his sword to send you the other way, then slashes you again.

 

[Idon]

So what are y'all's remaining Fighter's Pass 2 predictions? My final predictions are Chun-Li, Lloyd or Yuri, and Elma. I truly believe these characters are most likely the final 3 in Fighter's Pass 2 and the game if that's it.

What I think will happen?

Monster Hunter (Costumes missing)
Nightmare (Costumes missing)
Ryu Hayabusa (C'mon Koei Tecmo's been so close with Nintendo they may as well be flat mates.)

What I would LOOOOOOOOOVE to happen?

Dante
Demi-fiend
Doomslayer

All of which, are dead.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So what are y'all's remaining Fighter's Pass 2 predictions? My final predictions are Chun-Li, Lloyd or Yuri, and Elma. I truly believe these characters are most likely the final 3 in Fighter's Pass 2 and the game if that's it.

Right now, I'm thinking Crash, Reimu and probably Nightmare.

Now watch as none of these some true...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So what are y'all's remaining Fighter's Pass 2 predictions? My final predictions are Chun-Li, Lloyd or Yuri, and Elma. I truly believe these characters are most likely the final 3 in Fighter's Pass 2 and the game if that's it.

Hey as long as I get Elma, my S-rank Most Wanted, I’m content

 

[Icedragonadam]

So what are y'all's remaining Fighter's Pass 2 predictions? My final predictions are Chun-Li, Lloyd or Yuri, and Elma. I truly believe these characters are most likely the final 3 in Fighter's Pass 2 and the game if that's it.

Chun-li
Tales Rep
Ryu Hayabusa

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Imma say Elma, LoL, Reimu for the last three of pass 2 myself

 

[Idon]

Hey as long as I get Elma, my S-rank Most Wanted, I’m content

You...
may not be content then.

 

[Louie G.]

So what are y'all's remaining Fighter's Pass 2 predictions?

Sorry that I'm boring, but most of my picks don't stray too far from the norm (they're discussed for a reason). I also like to keep my options open so... this is a little more than three characters, technically. Bare with me, I don't know what to expect!

Spoiler: I wrote a lot so I didn't want people getting scared off by a wall of text

- I'd be shocked if Hayabusa doesn't make the cut. Koei Tecmo's absence is more and more glaring with each character and I can't see them going the whole DLC cycle without even getting a measly costume. In any case, I'm wholly convinced we're getting SOME Koei Tecmo content in the near future. You've heard every point toward this character a million times and they still hold up.

- I'm convinced Capcom is getting a character too, based on the absence of Monster Hunter's costume despite the trickle of Capcom costumes in FP1 - which has since grinded to a halt and moved toward Namco instead. I pretty much cycle between Monster Hunter and Chun-Li, Capcom's biggest series and character (respectively) absent from the roster. I believe both of them are absolutely big enough to justify expanding on what their series already have in the game.

I could see Phoenix as a dark horse as well, but there are several reasons why I hesitate to put too much stock in him (he's not really as big as the others). With Dante... I dunno, gut feeling that we're just not gonna see him. Sometimes that's all it boils down to.

- Beyond that I usually default to Arle, probably my current most wanted character and one who I feel has plenty of credentials. Influential series, probably the biggest face from a genre currently represented exclusively through Dr. Mario of all characters. Good presence on both Switch and Nintendo throughout its history, Sega has been wanting to push Puyo into prominence in the west for years (and it's been working) and Puyo is a solid second place for Sega's biggest IPs behind Sonic himself. Puyo 2 is hailed as one of the most important Japanese arcade games of the 90s right alongside SF2. There's a lot of reasons to keep her in mind...

...but I'm not really that confident in her. At this point, no harm in having some blind faith in your favorites right? Some other characters on my radar would be Tracer (I feel like people just don't want to talk about OW, but it's a pretty big deal) and Demifiend (I dunno, mostly just because I want people to talk about SMT more. Kinda weird that Joker didn't come with any SMT stuff I guess?).

But yeah, TLDR:

Ryu Hayabusa
Monster Hunter or Chun-Li
Arle

 

[Perkilator]

So what are y'all's remaining Fighter's Pass 2 predictions? My final predictions are Chun-Li, Lloyd or Yuri, and Elma. I truly believe these characters are most likely the final 3 in Fighter's Pass 2 and the game if that's it.

Expecations:

• Crash Bandicoot
• Cinderace
• Chosen Undead

Wants

• Crash Bandicoot
• Sakura Shinguji
• Sora

Of course, I am fine with every candidate I listed. especially the one I just listed twice

 

[Sophitia]

Predictions?

Pokemon rep (I won't even try to guess who)
Ryu Hayabusa
Monster Hunter

Of course, this will probably end up being wrong!

 

[Idon]

Demifiend (I dunno, mostly just because I want people to talk about SMT more. Kinda weird that Joker didn't come with any SMT stuff I guess?).

My man.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Predictions? They tend to flip-flop, but errrrr...

Chosen Undead
Rex (or at least some sort of 1st party)
Dante

 

[cashregister9]

I've decided that I've thought way to hard about who I think will be in smash, I need to chill out and just wait it out

Anyways here are my predictions

Monster Hunter/Phoenix/Dante
Don-Chan/Saber/Frisk
Estelle

no thoughts, head empty

 

[chocolatejr9]

Again? Not that I am against him, but how many times are we going to hear of Cortez?

Everytime Cortez is mentioned, time splits.

So it is written in the Book of Paradox, Chapter 4, page 11.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Everytime Cortez is mentioned, time splits.

So it is written in the Book of Paradox, Chapter 4, page 11.

The real reason why 2020 felt like a decade

 

[Mushroomguy12]

You...
may not be content then.

I think she was saying she would be content with Retrogamermax's predicted set of characters (along with any other predictions that included Elma), not that the character was 100% guaranteed to happen or anything.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think she was saying she would be content with Retrogamermax's predicted set of characters (along with any other predictions that included Elma), not that the character was 100% guaranteed to happen or anything.

Yeah pretty much

 

[osby]

If Nintendo really wants Euden, I can easily see Sakurai borrowing some moves from other adventurers or go a little crazy with artistic license to flesh out his moveset.

I don't see us getting him at all but moveset potential must be the roadblock in his way.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If Nintendo really wants Euden, I can easily see Sakurai borrowing some moves from other adventurers or go a little crazy with artistic license to flesh out his moveset.

I don't see us getting him at all but moveset potential must be the roadblock in his way.

Pretty much this, except you forgot the not on that last sentence.

I seriously don't see why "moveset potential" is still somehow an argument when Sakurai has fleshed out a potted plant and a fighter whose entire moveset was essentially just two basic (and very long) punches, and that's just examples from Ultimate's DLC. There's more examples across the decades Smash has lived.

He can make a moveset out of anything. How many times would he need to prove that for people to get it?

 

[Otoad64]

Pretty much this, except you forgot the not on that last sentence.

I seriously don't see why "moveset potential" is still somehow an argument when Sakurai has fleshed out a potted plant and a fighter whose entire moveset was essentially just two basic (and very long) punches.

He can make a moveset out of anything. How many times would he need to prove that for people to get it?

honestly in retrospect plant had more moveset potential then people realize, given how many types of piranha plants there are, it would be much easier to make a moveset for plant then someone like monty mole or creeper

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pretty much this, except you forgot the not on that last sentence.

I seriously don't see why "moveset potential" is still somehow an argument when Sakurai has fleshed out a potted plant and a fighter whose entire moveset was essentially just two basic (and very long) punches.

He can make a moveset out of anything. How many times would he need to prove that for people to get it?

To be fair, that potted plant borrowed from tons of enemy species related to it. Not all are as lucky, which shows how much harder some are to make work in comparison.

Most characters aren't that hard to flesh out. Some require way more creative liberties than others. Fox and Falcon are good examples of this. Even Ness took a lot more(though it helps he borrowed some animations from Mario, with a few retooled moves), but even then. And even those with clear abilities needed random bits added in. Like, it's hard to find a moveset that has absolutely zero moves made by Sakurai. Mr. Game & Watch is one of the few examples. Wii Fit Trainer might be another, but the aerials might be made up. I could go on, but you get the idea.

I agree that moveset potential isn't much of an argument to be used against anyone. Now making one that flows well? That's an actual difficult task. It's fairly easy to fill spots, since we have an extremely clear guide to what goes where, so it's not too hard to flesh out. Stuff like balance, damage, effects, etc. are a whole nother story.