Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

In short he does retread a lot of old ground, but he does have some unique actions and they could make him stand out if they wanted to, especially if Sakurai just takes Euden as an excuse to add more random cool sword moves.
It's just personally, I'd rather go for someone who's a bit more fleshed out in their own games and doesn't require concerted work on part of the devs to make unique...

How about this one?

 

[chocolatejr9]

How about this one?

Is that a mouth on his stomach?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Is that a mouth on his stomach?

That is a mouth on his stomach.

Soulcalibur IV really went nuts with his design

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That is a mouth on his stomach.

Soulcalibur IV really went nuts with his design

I don't like the idea of Sword Wario.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Am I allowed to mention Billy Hatcher for the umpteenth time?

yes, yes you are

Anyway I guess I never answered my own question.

Doshin, Beat, Chibi-robo and Ayumi Tachibana are probably the "nichest" guy's I want

however if the detective club remakes get localized, maybe she won't be so niche after all...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't like the idea of Sword Wario.

You're right. Not enough mouths

 

[Speed Weed]

this may be fun.

what's the most "niche" character you want in smash?

these are the most objectively epic gamer chad picks

-epic chads takamaru and saki and ****ing kyle hyde why not

-epic chad vyse from epic chad game skies of arcadia

-opa-opa. the very definition of epic gamer chad

-the absolute CHAD that is amingo from the hit game marvel vs capcom 2 new age of heroes

-gene godhand. perfect human being

-jin ****ing saotome. pilot of blodia

-edward falcon from power stone more like chadward falcon from power stone

-viewtiful joe, do i need to explain myself here

-more of a lowkey want but my guy goemon would be a pretty raw goated kino chad pick

these are all the most epic gamer chad niche picks. it is objective fact

EDIT: YO I JUST REMEMBERED PUT IN MY MAN U-1 FROM GITAROO MAN

 

[SpecterFlower]

these are the most objectively epic gamer chad picks

-epic chads takamaru and saki and ****ing kyle hyde why not

-epic chad vyse from epic chad game skies of arcadia

-opa-opa. the very definition of epic gamer chad

-the absolute CHAD that is amingo from the hit game marvel vs capcom 2 new age of heroes

-gene godhand. perfect human being

-jin ****ing saotome. pilot of blodia

-edward falcon from power stone more like chadward falcon from power stone

-viewtiful joe, do i need to explain myself here

-more of a lowkey want but my guy goemon would be a pretty raw goated kino chad pick

these are all the most epic gamer chad niche picks. it is objective fact

EDIT: YO I JUST REMEMBERED PUT IN MY MAN U-1 FROM GITAROO MAN

I have the biggest CHAD GAMER pick and it's...................................................................... Flingsmash, I mean you guy's wanted a 1st party right? so there you go
Flingmash..... yay?

 

[spicynun]

this may be fun.

what's the most "niche" character you want in smash?

Rumble and Tumble from Dual Hearts.
Please tell me someone else here has played Dual Hearts.

Toan from Dark Cloud or Max/Monica from Dark Cloud 2 would be amazing as well

 

[SharkLord]

this may be fun.

what's the most "niche" character you want in smash?

My top three,, actually. Reimu is big in Japan but would get a lot of question marks in the West, Adol is surprisingly unknown for all the legacy his series has, and Klonoa's %$#@ing dead.

Haha... sigh...

C'mon Encore... Hurry up...

 

[Guynamednelson]

I have the biggest CHAD GAMER pick and it's...................................................................... Flingsmash, I mean you guy's wanted a 1st party right? so there you go
Flingmash..... yay?

Okay, Scott Wozniak.

 

[SharkLord]

Dragalia Lost has gacha mechanics, right? Give Euden a move where he randomly summons a character from the game to attack. There, I think that's unique enough.

Though, I honestly do kinda want a gacha character with a random summon move. Then we can throw them at Hero and have an extra chaotic battle.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

In short he does retread a lot of old ground, but he does have some unique actions and they could make him stand out if they wanted to, especially if Sakurai just takes Euden as an excuse to add more random cool sword moves.
It's just personally, I'd rather go for someone who's a bit more fleshed out in their own games and doesn't require concerted work on part of the devs to make unique...

Someone who already makes me go "oh, what they're doing is pretty cool, put that in Smash!"
Someone like Gran and Djeeta, the protagonists of Granblue Fantasy, Dragalia Lost's sibling franchise both run by Cygames, whom Nintendo would presumably negotiate with.

So Euden's basic mechanics from Dragalia Lost retreads a lot of ground but Gran's best shoto impression doesn't?

Sorry to pick on you for this, but I think it speaks to the power of visualization when it comes to this sort of thing. If you can't picture how a character would play then it's hard to get hyped for them unless you already really like them and don't care how they'd play. Kind of like how people thought Steve wouldn't work or would be incredibly boring even though neither are the case.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Okay, Scott Wozniak.

Hey all, Scott here. Have you ever wondered if Flingsmash is the Dark Souls of Flingsmash?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

this may be fun.

what's the most "niche" character you want in smash?

Ring a Ding intensifies

 

[SpecterFlower]

Ring a Ding intensifies

if we count that as niche than it's my 2nd most wanted. the original sold like 3mil though so I wouldn't really call it niche

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

If you don't think Euden can bring an interesting moveset and your excuse is "other characters have a lot to bring", then asking if we've played the same game is appropriate. Because Euden is just as brimmming with potential as any other realizable candidate.

Source Gaming has you covered. I want you to read the whole article and study it carefully.

Dragon meter turning him into a dragon and completely changing his moveset.

It's practically a transformation Final Smash without the Final Smash part.

Not sure if it'd be fun, but you asked for something "interesting", and that's interesting to me

Okay, sorry about accusing you of not being knowledgable. I've had to deal with plenty of people who were like that, so I kinda jumped to a conclusion...

But yeah, I suggest you look over the Source Gaming article about Euden's moveset potential. Trust me, he's got plenty of it.

I looked it over and like



Y'all are acting like I haven't thought about this when I have; I don't invoke the "lack of moveset" argument lightly. Dragon Meter is the only really unique thing Euden could bring to the table, and even then it raises questions about and balancing and scale (in Dragalia Lost canon Dragons are Rathalos-sized, and do not have an NES Ridley-esque smaller version to draw from). There's also a lot of reaching in the Source Gaming moveset, which is kinda my point.

There isn't a lot to draw from Dragalia Lost for a moveset besides a fire/light sword and dragon moves, both of which are already covered in one way or another on the roster. I think Idon put it best above when he said it'd take a concentrated effort on the part of the dev team to really make him stand out, and I don't think he has much else going for him to justify his inclusion. It seems like people only bring him up because he's the "Nintendo mobile guy" that Nintendo would want to shill all of a sudden.

 

[RileyXY1]

I looked it over and like

View attachment 298776

Y'all are acting like I haven't thought about this when I have; I don't invoke the "lack of moveset" argument lightly. Dragon Meter is the only really unique thing Euden could bring to the table, and even then it raises questions about and balancing and scale (in Dragalia Lost canon Dragons are Rathalos-sized, and do not have an NES Ridley-esque smaller version to draw from). There's also a lot of reaching in the Source Gaming moveset, which is kinda my point.

There isn't a lot to draw from Dragalia Lost for a moveset besides a fire/light sword and dragon moves, both of which are already covered in one way or another on the roster. I think Idon put it best above when he said it'd take a concentrated effort on the part of the dev team to really make him stand out, and I don't think he has much else going for him to justify his inclusion. It seems like people only bring him up because he's the "Nintendo mobile guy" that Nintendo would want to shill all of a sudden.

Especially considering that in some markets Dragalia Lost is completely illegal.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Rumble and Tumble from Dual Hearts.
Please tell me someone else here has played Dual Hearts.

Toan from Dark Cloud or Max/Monica from Dark Cloud 2 would be amazing as well

All I know about Dual Hearts is that one video by Austin Eruption about 3D Zelda clones. He... didn't seem very positive about it.

 

[Arcanir]

He can also turn into a dragon, probably Midgardsormr the wind dragon as it is the first one he gets, which could be a pretty unique gameplay concept, but his moveset isn't all that interesting either, playable or boss.

I would argue Midgardsormr would be pretty interesting. Wind isn't really used in Smash as outside of maybe a couple attacks and one item nothing is built around or plays with it as a focus, and none of the dragons we have already like Ridley, Charizard, or Bowser use it extensively either. So just conceptually he has something in his kit that can be built off of to stand out from other characters. He also does have alts that can give him some extra options that aren't present in his base form, those could be used to fill in potential holes for the character as well.

Dragalia Lost has gacha mechanics, right? Give Euden a move where he randomly summons a character from the game to attack. There, I think that's unique enough.

Though, I honestly do kinda want a gacha character with a random summon move. Then we can throw them at Hero and have an extra chaotic battle.

His Down-B has him summon a princess to use a gun Manacaster.

Spoiler

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Rumble and Tumble from Dual Hearts.
Please tell me someone else here has played Dual Hearts.

Toan from Dark Cloud or Max/Monica from Dark Cloud 2 would be amazing as well

DID SOMEONE SAY DARK CLOUD?!?!

ilu

 

[Perkilator]

Especially considering that in some markets Dragalia Lost is completely illegal.

Blame Overwatch and EA's Battlefront II for that. Their loot boxes caused a domino effect that got other mobile games banned due to the overall gambling nature of them and loot boxes.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

So Euden's basic mechanics from Dragalia Lost retreads a lot of ground but Gran's best shoto impression doesn't?

Sorry to pick on you for this, but I think it speaks to the power of visualization when it comes to this sort of thing. If you can't picture how a character would play then it's hard to get hyped for them unless you already really like them and don't care how they'd play. Kind of like how people thought Steve wouldn't work or would be incredibly boring even though neither are the case.

I feel like that's somewhat of a disingenuous comparison considering that the main Granblue Fantasy has 56 different classes with which the player can use and Sakurai has, in the past, expressed interest in a job/class-changing moveset.

I think there's a good point to be made about visualization, but there's not much to visualize in regards to Euden's moveset because the source material is so incredibly lacking by design (Dragalia Lost is meant to be a simple game to pick up which means the character's movesets are simple), and both sword and dragon-based movesets are already covered by other fighters.

If Euden had other redeeming factors like wide fan demand or Dragalia Lost being actively pushed by Nintendo a lá Splatoon or ARMS I could see it, but he doesn't really. I just don't understand why people think he's a likely Nintendo pick when there are other, more likelier characters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Y'all are acting like I haven't thought about this when I have; I don't invoke the "lack of moveset" argument lightly. Dragon Meter is the only really unique thing Euden could bring to the table, and even then it raises questions about and balancing and scale (in Dragalia Lost canon Dragons are Rathalos-sized, and do not have an NES Ridley-esque smaller version to draw from). There's also a lot of reaching in the Source Gaming moveset, which is kinda my point.

There isn't a lot to draw from Dragalia Lost for a moveset besides a fire/light sword and dragon moves, both of which are already covered in one way or another on the roster. I think Idon put it best above when he said it'd take a concentrated effort on the part of the dev team to really make him stand out, and I don't think he has much else going for him to justify his inclusion. It seems like people only bring him up because he's the "Nintendo mobile guy" that Nintendo would want to shill all of a sudden.

Counterpoint: A third or more of the roster consists of characters that either do the same 2 or 3 things in battle the whole game, don't fight at all, or simply just exist for the most part. Some characters have the opposite problem, having too many things that they do. It's safe to say that pretty much everyone needs a concentrated effort to work right. Some are hits and some are misses, but I think it's pretty obvious at this point that the dev team's creativity is pretty boundless when it comes to this sort of thing. Whatever they might whip up may not be to your tastes, but I don't think you could really say they couldn't make any given character stand out from the rest.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Blame Overwatch and EA's Battlefront II for that. Their loot boxes caused a domino effect that got other mobile games banned due to the overall gambling nature of them and loot boxes.

it's a shame too because from what I played Dragalia lost is the most generous gacha game I have ever played.

 

[Idon]

How about this one?

Oh yeah I could think of plenty of cool sword characters that are way cooler than Euden, Nightmare included.

I made a moveset for one of em right in my sig in fact. Yall should check it out.

So Euden's basic mechanics from Dragalia Lost retreads a lot of ground but Gran's best shoto impression doesn't?

Sorry to pick on you for this, but I think it speaks to the power of visualization when it comes to this sort of thing. If you can't picture how a character would play then it's hard to get hyped for them unless you already really like them and don't care how they'd play. Kind of like how people thought Steve wouldn't work or would be incredibly boring even though neither are the case.

Well that's not really what I'm arguing. I'm saying "from things to draw from, Euden doesn't inspire much confidence." while also saying "Gran has cool attacks to draw from, things Euden does not."

I'm not going to give him points for "moveset potential" if most of Euden's moves will be made up or altered significantly. Doesn't mean he can't or won't be cool, Sheik is rad as a charcter with nothing to draw fom.

Besides Gran IS cool. If Euden punched and kicked fools in the face like Gran I'd certainly be down. If he does even remotely half the stuff Djeeta does with her axe kick and rekkas he'd be even cooler. I would be hella excited for a brawler-swordsman, and even MORE excited if Gran and Djeeta incorporated an Onion Knight style job switching thing.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think there's a good point to be made about visualization, but there's not much to visualize in regards to Euden's moveset because the source material is so incredibly lacking by design (Dragalia Lost is meant to be a simple game to pick up which means the character's movesets are simple), and both sword and dragon-based movesets are already covered by other fighters.

I'm no expert on Dragalia Lost, but perhaps they could use the simplicity to their advantage. They wouldn't be able to give Midgardsormr a full moveset since that would require developing more than one character, but what if instead they said "screw it! He's 1.5-2 times the size of Ridley and has big dumb hitboxes in exchange for being that big and not having a full moveset". It's a difficult idea to balance to be sure, but being able to turn into what's essentially a boss character would certainly make them stand out.

It's more of an idea than a counterpoint, but eh.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Oh yeah I could think of plenty of cool sword characters that are way cooler than Euden, Nightmare included.

Saying Nightmare is cool?

Bless you

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...Onion Knight style job switching thing.

Onion Knight

Onion Knight?!? Who the heck names their class after an oni-...


Oh good gravy it's because they have layers isn't it?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Onion Knight?!? Who the heck names their class after an oni-...


Oh good gravy it's because they have layers isn't it?

Ogre Knight

 

[Idon]

I would argue Midgardsormr would be pretty interesting. Wind isn't really used in Smash as outside of maybe a couple attacks and one item nothing is built around or plays with it as a focus, and none of the dragons we have already like Ridley, Charizard, or Bowser use it extensively either. So just conceptually he has something in his kit that can be built off of to stand out from other characters. He also does have alts that can give him some extra options that aren't present in his base form, those could be used to fill in potential holes for the character as well.

Conceptually it would be cool. In practice, Midgardsormr's moves are as generic as you could reasonably get from a dragon. Plus there's still the issue of Euden himself being boring as hell. Hero pretty much already did the "normal swordsman with WACKY down B" thing that I'd rather not see twice.

Frankly I think Corrin's half-transformation gimmick is much more practical than "Play as a standard swordsman for half the match until you get Arsene Dragon."

Saying Nightmare is cool?

Bless you

Well yes, he's a giant posessed man in a suit of armor with a gross monster hand a giant claymore.
He's about as cool as cool gets.

Onion Knight?!? Who the heck names their class after an oni-...


Oh good gravy it's because they have layers isn't it?

Don't blame me...
Blame Final Fantasy.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Ogre Knight

Forgive me for this:

ahem

SomeBODY ONCE TOLD ME-

 

[SKX31]

Blame Overwatch and EA's Battlefront II for that. Their loot boxes caused a domino effect that got other mobile games banned due to the overall gambling nature of them and loot boxes.

It's even older than that: the use of lootboxes can be traced back as far as 2004. Apparently the Japanese version of MapleStory used "Gachapon tickets" aaaand the rest is history. As for the West, well, you can still blame EA, but that's because they introduced lootboxes in the form of FIFA Ultimate Team with FIFA 09 (released in 2008, so only four years after lootboxes began to be seen as viable in Asia). The other early important case is TF2, where the hats became nearly synonymous with the game.

Ogre Knight

Forgive me for this:

ahem

SomeBODY ONCE TOLD ME-

THE WORLD IS GONNA ROLL ME,

SO I DECIDED TO BECOME A KNIGHT.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Saying Nightmare is cool?

Bless you

Of course Nightmare is cool. He's kind of like the lord of darkness.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Forgive me for this:

ahem

SomeBODY ONCE TOLD ME-

That you had a boyfriend, who looks like a girlfriend, that I had in February of last year...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Forgive me for this:

ahem

SomeBODY ONCE TOLD ME-

THE WORLD'S GONNA RICK ROLL ME

I MIGHT AS WELL JUST STAY IN MY BED

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Well yes, he's a giant posessed man in a suit of armor with a gross monster hand a giant claymore.
He's about as cool as cool gets.

You forgot the fact that he's somehow extremely acrobatic despite the giant armor, which can lead to a really cool-looking moveset.

 

[CannonStreak]

THE WORLD'S GONNA RICK ROLL ME

I MIGHT AS WELL JUST STAY IN MY BED

If I ever get up again just to ever get Rick Rolled
I might just start to go losing my head

 

[Ivander]

this may be fun.

what's the most "niche" character you want in smash?

-One of the Ray series from Custom Robo. Preferably Ray 01.
-Saki from Sin & Punishment.
-Wonder Red from The Wonderful 101.
-Red & Blue from Gunstar Heroes.
-Allen from Culdcept.

 

[CannonStreak]

this may be fun.

what's the most "niche" character you want in smash?

Does Marina Liteyears from Mischief Makers count?