Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Golden Icarus]

I’m trying my best to catch up on recent leaks and speculation, but I’m still curious about Chun-Li.

From what I can gather, people are anticipating her because of certain rumors implying that she was planned (or at least considered) for the base game. Is there anything else beyond that that is making people so confident in her inclusion? Don’t get me wrong, I think Chun-Li would be awesome and I can see the logic behind why she might be chosen. But why is she brought up more than say, Alucard, who we know for a fact was considered for the base game and is similar in terms of being a popular secondary character from a third party series. I’m just curious.

Anyways, my predictions would probably be:
Ryu Hayabusa
Yuri Lowell
Crash

This might look like wishful thinking. The idea that we would get three major requests to close out the pass. But if this is the end of Ultimate’s DLC, then these characters would just make sense to me. When we first started getting DLC, these were three characters that I felt would definitely be added eventually. They just seem like they would be hard to pass up.

FP1 had characters like Joker and Terry, who seem more like personal picks from Sakurai. Characters that he thought would be fun. While FP2 seems like we’re getting the characters that just ‘feel like they should be there,’ for lack of a better term. Having a character from Nintendo’s newest IP just makes sense. As does adding the face of the best selling game in history. Sephiroth seems like more of a stretch, but Sakurai described in the presentation how the roster looks complete with him, so clearly he was a character that he felt belonged in Smash. And that’s essentially what I see with these three. They just feel like they should be there.

While not as big of a mascot as Mario or Sonic, Crash represents a very important part of gaming history and is one of the few Western characters where I can imagine Sakurai going to great lengths to have him included.

With Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy represented, Tales would probably be next in line. Namco has been closely involved with Smash for years now and only has one character despite how many famous IPs they have. And obviously Lloyd’s costume is being held back for some reason. Also I flip back and forth on whether we would see Yuri or Lloyd, but Yuri makes just a bit more sense to me. It’s a tough call. It’s less of a Cloud vs Terra situation, and more of a Yu Narukami vs Joker situation. Either one would make sense.

Like I stated earlier. You have Mario, you have Sonic, and now it’s time for Crash. You have FF, you have DQ, and now it’s time for Tales. And similarly, you have Mega Man, you have Castlevania, and now it’s time for Ninja Gaiden. It just makes sense to me.

If these characters aren’t included in this pass, then I’ll bet good money that they’ll all be added at some point within the next ten years.

 

[DevaAshera]

Something Something Mario Paint

Yeah, but that's a Mario spin-off game, kinda like how Final Fantasy VII Advent Children has music & a costume in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate due to being a sequel to the game Final Fantasy VII.

I mean if ROB could get in.............................

That's..a weird case, a toy made by Nintendo to work with, and sell, Video Games..

Anime is Japanese animation. Mario is animated, and he originates in Japan.

Mario is anime, therefore Mario bad.

Mario IS anime..speaking of, lets not forget that Mario's modern design, from Super Mario Bros. The Lost Levels onward, were drawn by an actual anime artist, Yoichi Kotabe..

Yoichi Kotabe

Yoichi Kotabe is a Japanese animation artist and former employee of Nintendo. Kotabe was the primary artist on the Super Mario franchise, drawing much of the 2D promotional artwork for the games and refining many of Shigeru Miyamoto's early...

www.mariowiki.com

 

[SpecterFlower]

I think characters who didn't originate form games but the games are really all they're know for or at least the games are treated as the main thing with all other media just being supporting factors should be a part of the discussion, however that list might not even hit double digit's.

 

[DarthEnderX]

characters who didn't originate form games but the games are really all they're know for or at least the games are treated as the main thing with all other media just being supporting factors

For example?

 

[SpecterFlower]

For example?

exactly

 

[7NATOR]

For example?

Geralt, and also Strider

 

[SpecterFlower]

Geralt, and also Strider

wait Capcom strider? he isn't from videogames?

 

[Idon]

wait Capcom strider? he isn't from videogames?

Technically a manga meant to tie into the game came out first. Basically imagine if Pokemon anime aired before Red and Blue.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Geralt, and also Strider

That’s interesting. I wonder how the speculation community would interpret Strider being added. Even if he was just a Mii costume, it would definitely shake up the way people view the ‘originated in a video game’ rule. I imagine a lot of Goku supporters would latch onto it as proof that the rule doesn’t exist anymore.

 

[SpecterFlower]

That’s interesting. I wonder how the speculation community would interpret Strider being added. Even if he was just a Mii costume, it would definitely shake up the way people view the ‘originated in a video game’ rule. I imagine a lot of Goku supporters would latch onto it as proof that the rule doesn’t exist anymore.

I think it shouldn't be no non-videogame characters allowed but rather characters who's most popular and historic elements are their videogames so goku's still out of the running even if strider get's in i think.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Only character I'm confident enough to say I believe they're happening is Dante, if people are allowed to go tinfoil hat theory on characters who've been given a death sentence, I can use DMC3SESwitch as hard evidence with my tinfoil hat

 

[Idon]

Only character I'm confident enough to say I believe they're happening is Dante, if people are allowed to go tinfoil hat theory on characters who've been given a death sentence, I can use DMC3SESwitch as hard evidence with my tinfoil hat

Oh yeah in my mind Dante is the most likely Capcom character, and most likely character in general.

At least he was until Sephiroth showed they're willing to do content already in the base game. Now, I'm a bit wary of Monster Hunter making an 11th hour comeback tour.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh yeah in my mind Dante is the most likely Capcom character, and most likely character in general.

At least he was until Sephiroth showed they're willing to do content already in the base game. Now, I'm a bit wary of Monster Hunter making an 11th hour comeback tour.

Sounds like you lack motivation for your Dante stanning

 

[AEMehr]

I've been under the impression that this fighters pass was probably comprised of characters that simply didn't make the cut earlier in development for whatever reason.

I mean, a character from ARMS simply came too late for consideration at launch. Plus, the rumors of Minecraft appearing in Ultimate at launch were very prevalent two years ago, and the official mention that the idea was at least being discussed 5 years ago seemed to add credit to the idea.

I feel Sephiroth only helped solidify the concept in my head, since we've been hearing apparent rumors that he was also in conversation awhile back too.
- - -
With that mindset, and if the rumors of Chun-Li are true, I don't see why that wouldn't be possible. I would be very happy to see her specifically designed after her appearance in SFIII: Third Strike. Even if that gives precedent for her to be very annoying to fight in 1v1s lol. I'd just love to see the music from that game make the jump, if not tracks for SFIV, SFV, or even the Alpha series.

We don't actually know what characters were really considered for the game, so we don't have a real list to look at to gauge if they really were picking characters from an existing pile they already thought up. IMO, the only character we might be able to guess with officially released information is just Rex, but I'm not really expecting them either.

 

[7NATOR]

That’s interesting. I wonder how the speculation community would interpret Strider being added. Even if he was just a Mii costume, it would definitely shake up the way people view the ‘originated in a video game’ rule. I imagine a lot of Goku supporters would latch onto it as proof that the rule doesn’t exist anymore.

Personally, considering Sakurai also considered James Bond in Melee despite him being Movie based character, I don't think the Origin of the charcater is what matters the most

It's mostly the whole thing with Rights and potential connection to Video game audiences in which Most Non-Video Game characters fall into a Pitfall. James bond had all the issues with his likeiness and copyright

The Non-Video game Origin characters Nintendo would want to go to first would be a nightmare to get. Goku is the prime example, as he has like 7 Rights holders if you want to represent Goku in Smash. It's part of why he doesn't appear in Crossovers baring ones based around Jump Anime

Characters like Mickey, Iron Man, Spider Man, Darth Vader have to go through Disney, and other popular characters like Harry Potter, Jason Voorhees, Batman, Superman, and Ronald Mcdonald also have to go through others

It's just a different ball game than just negotiating with a Company that's known more for their game making business and such. I'm also unsure if the Companies that own characters like Non-Video Game Origin characters are that in want of a Character in Smash, if Video Games currently are not the prime target. Even if they did, they'd probably want so many Specfications for the characters

Like I Imagine Mickey came up when Nintendo went to go for Sora, and Disney probably had a High Amount of Specifications that just would not work with Smash.

We are also in a Situation where we still have Lots of Iconic Video game Icons to tackle for the Smash roster, that Fans are still requesting. We just barely tackled into the Western Hemisphere of Gaming history, along with Indies and 2nd Reps from 3rd Party Franchises. We got lots of potential characters that have their basis more in the games than other media. There is no need to go for Characters like Batman and Goku yet

I could see Non-Video Game Origin characters happening if perhaps a Smash Spin-off was made just for the idea, like maybe Smash Vs Jump Anime, or Smash vs DC, as I Imagine negotiating with one of these companies for a full tie in game is easier than trying to negotiating a character from each of these companies

However characters like Batman, Spongebob, Goku, Mickey Mouse, and Popeye among others have had major influence on the Gaming Spectrum anyway. I think these characters would still celebrate video game history if they got in. Lots of people grow up or get into games based of these Tie-in Games with these other media Superstars.

 

[Cosmic77]

One thing I'd like to clarify about Sephiroth and the Chun-Li leak is that it never specifically said Sephiroth would be in Smash. It said that Sephiroth was considered, but ultimately rejected for Hero. It said the same thing about Geno too, so we could live in a universe where Geno was chosen instead. Not much would change honestly.

Personally, I don't think this pass will have an intentional "they almost made it" theme. It's weird how the first three characters seem to fit this idea, but I consider it to be no more of a coincidence than the first pass having four third-parties in a row before Byleth broke the combo.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Smash Vs Jump Anime

No, Smash Vs Anime is even more better than just with Jump Comics.

 

[Scamper52596]

I've been under the impression that this fighters pass was probably comprised of characters that simply didn't make the cut earlier in development for whatever reason.

I mean, a character from ARMS simply came too late for consideration at launch. Plus, the rumors of Minecraft appearing in Ultimate at launch were very prevalent two years ago, and the official mention that the idea was at least being discussed 5 years ago seemed to add credit to the idea.

I feel Sephiroth only helped solidify the concept in my head, since we've been hearing apparent rumors that he was also in conversation awhile back too.
- - -
With that mindset, and if the rumors of Chun-Li are true, I don't see why that wouldn't be possible. I would be very happy to see her specifically designed after her appearance in SFIII: Third Strike. Even if that gives precedent for her to be very annoying to fight in 1v1s lol. I'd just love to see the music from that game make the jump, if not tracks for SFIV, SFV, or even the Alpha series.

We don't actually know what characters were really considered for the game, so we don't have a real list to look at to gauge if they really were picking characters from an existing pile they already thought up. IMO, the only character we might be able to guess with officially released information is just Rex, but I'm not really expecting them either.

Agreed. The idea that they held off some characters and content for DLC is starting to feel more apparent with this Fighters Pass. This is the mindset I'm starting to look toward when picking my personal predictions.

Sephiroth's inclusion was telling when you look at everything in retrospect. Why didn't FF7 get any extra content in the base game of Ultimate when the other 3rd party characters that were added as DLC in Smash for Wii U/3DS did? It's likely because they knew they were going to add Sephiroth in later with that extra content.
Minecraft, like you mentioned, has likely been discussed for years to get into Smash. Might even be why Banjo was able to make it in as DLC since Nintendo was actively trying to work with Microsoft to get Steve in. Certainly would've made negotiations easier.
For ARMS they held the Party Crash Bash that started a couple weeks before Ultimate came out in 2018, and it went on for 8 months to determine the most popular characters in the game. So it was likely Nintendo knew that they wanted an ARMS pick as one of the DLC characters pretty early on.

It'll certainly be interesting to see if this pattern continues.

 

[7NATOR]

I think the Pass being an "Almost made it" Theme makes sense from a negotiation standpoint

If Fighter Pass 2 was greenlit around June of 2019, I doubt negotiations would have started at that point regarding any 3rd parties. 6 Months is not enough time to settle everything that needs to be negotiated on (Cost, Moveset conception, Model details, List of mandates, Composition rights, etc). I think if any character was added to the lineup around this time, it was a Nintendo character since I Imagine negotiations for 1st parties are much simpler (talk to the Nintendo Team about specific details, but otherwise go ham)

Also seeing how Hero's Mii costume lineup lacked Geno and Chocobo, I bet the lineup was mostly, if Entirely already decided, with perhaps some finishing touches regarding Negotiations

Regarding 3rd parties, I Imagine they had to be in the process of negotiation either some time before Ultimate came out, or in the stretch between the Release of the game and June 2019, which is around another 6-7 months. So Unless a character started negotiations in that 6-7 month span before June of 2019, I think the rest of the 3rd parties we get are gonna be "Almost Made it"

 

[DevaAshera]

If the pass is an 'almost made it', then I pray that Rex & Pyra do end up coming soon.

No, Smash Vs Anime is even more better than just with Jump Comics.

Yeah, though the licensing nightmare with even just the Shonen Jump characters would be astounding..throwing all of anime in there with be an absolute, near impossible nightmare..part of why there are few, if any, games that crossover many anime characters from different companies. If you guys though Square-Enix was difficult to work with, licensing-wise, or that Disney would be 'impossible', just try to imagine having to negotiate with not only the owners of the manga, but the anime adaption people, the overseas licensees (per territory), etc..there's a reason even the big Jump Crossover Games have stayed Japanese Dub only..and why almost none of them reached Western shores..

 

[Evil Trapezium]

One thing I'd like to clarify about Sephiroth and the Chun-Li leak is that it never specifically said Sephiroth would be in Smash. It said that Sephiroth was considered, but ultimately rejected for Hero. It said the same thing about Geno too, so we could live in a universe where Geno was chosen instead. Not much would change honestly.

Personally, I don't think this pass will have an intentional "they almost made it" theme. It's weird how the first three characters seem to fit this idea, but I consider it to be no more of a coincidence than the first pass having four third-parties in a row before Byleth broke the combo.

Gotta agree. One thing that makes me doubt an "almost made it pass" is with Capcom's involvement and how much of their deals fell through. Imran said that Byleth was a stand in for Monster Hunter, Chun-Li got replaced with Ken according to the same 5-chan leak and the deal with Resident Evil fell through that I think Indiegamerchick said and only gave us spirits instead. We'll either see a new Capcom rep or we won't get one at all.

Then again, it's a 5-Chan leak that might have made some really lucky guesses so who knows if it's actually telling the truth.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Gotta agree. One thing that makes me doubt an "almost made it pass" is with Capcom's involvement and how much of their deals fell through. Imran said that Byleth was a stand in for Monster Hunter, Chun-Li got replaced with Ken according to the same 5-chan leak and the deal with Resident Evil fell through that I think Indiegamerchick said and only gave us spirits instead. We'll either see a new Capcom rep or we won't get one at all.

Then again, it's a 5-Chan leak that might have made some really lucky guesses so who knows if it's actually telling the truth.

Imran himself doesn't have full confidence in that claim and it contradicts multiple facts, it shouldn't even be dignified with thoughy

 

[AEMehr]

One thing I'd like to clarify about Sephiroth and the Chun-Li leak is that it never specifically said Sephiroth would be in Smash. It said that Sephiroth was considered, but ultimately rejected for Hero. It said the same thing about Geno too, so we could live in a universe where Geno was chosen instead. Not much would change honestly.

Personally, I don't think this pass will have an intentional "they almost made it" theme. It's weird how the first three characters seem to fit this idea, but I consider it to be no more of a coincidence than the first pass having four third-parties in a row before Byleth broke the combo.

I was merely suggesting if the murmurs of her ended up true, I could see precedent as to why she would be a good choice of a character addition. I'm not familiar with the relation to her and Sephiroth is for this rumor, because I really have no interest in being spoiled if I can help it, so if I'm wrong I'm wrong that's cool.

I just think it makes sense for Nintendo to choose to discuss matters with people they've already talked with about the possibility first before choosing to do something new. With seemingly three of six fighters already probably being considered in the past, I don't see much reason to not think they didn't try to see if things have changed with more developers they may have asked in the past.

Agreed. The idea that they held off some characters and content for DLC is starting to feel more apparent with this Fighters Pass. This is the mindset I'm starting to look toward when picking my personal predictions.

Sephiroth's inclusion was telling when you look at everything in retrospect. Why didn't FF7 get any extra content in the base game of Ultimate when the other 3rd party characters that were added as DLC in Smash for Wii U/3DS did? It's likely because they knew they were going to add Sephiroth in later with that extra content.
Minecraft, like you mentioned, has likely been discussed for years to get into Smash. Might even be why Banjo was able to make it in as DLC since Nintendo was actively trying to work with Microsoft to get Steve in. Certainly would've made negotiations easier.
For ARMS they held the Party Crash Bash that started a couple weeks before Ultimate came out in 2018, and it went on for 8 months to determine the most popular characters in the game. So it was likely Nintendo knew that they wanted an ARMS pick as one of the DLC characters pretty early on.

It'll certainly be interesting to see if this pattern continues.

I don't really think Sakurai / Namco-Bandai held off on characters specifically for DLC, if anything I think it makes more sense to assume they just couldn't develop it as much as they wanted to. Whether it be due to funding or time.

I'd argue the lack of FF7 content was a funding issue more than anything, Nintendo has money sure, but they were not doing nearly as financially well as they are now in 2016 (when we first heard of Sakurai already having his next project decided). As we do know that Cloud apparently almost didn't even make it into Ultimate in the first place, I think it makes way more sense to assume he was simply too expensive to properly represent in the game at the time.

I think Banjo got in primarily, and really, only because Microsoft and Phil Spencer was perfectly alright with just adding Banjo and Kazooie. Minecraft may be owned by Microsoft as an IP, but it's original developer Mojang is still the team Sakurai would have to discuss the matters with properly to make it happen. If anything, it's more likely that Banjo and Kazooie is the reason why Steve could have the best possible ties to make it actually happen. Existing connections made as a result of that first character addition must have made it super easy to contact Mojang.

And on the Party Crash thing, while not even related to the subject matter, I really think it's just because Mr. Yabuki just wanted Min Min the most. I always felt that developer bias was probably going to play a part, since Sakurai does make it a point to discuss character additions with the character's original developers, and he literally outright said she was Yabuki's recommendation. While I'd love the lore of the ARMS Champion being the one invited, the story presented in the fighter reveal trailer really doesn't portray that narrative either. So I really think it was mostly just the developer bias that led that decision to occur. And if you read or watched some interviews with Mr. Yabuki you knew he was a Min Min fan from the get go.
- - -
From a business standpoint it just makes sense to save time and probably money by just looking at concepts that were already made and see if they can be made a reality. I'm not outright saying, "nah they cant add some new game advertisement character", but I did figure that these fighters will mostly be ideas they just didn't or couldn't make happen earlier in Ultimate's development after Min Min's inclusion.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I think Sakurai made a off-hand comment when announcing FP2 that he thought one or two might suffice. Maybe those two are Steve and Sepiroth, and the rest is patched together with Nintendo characters or easier-to-acquire third parties.

 

[Scamper52596]

I don't really think Sakurai / Namco-Bandai held off on characters specifically for DLC, if anything I think it makes more sense to assume they just couldn't develop it as much as they wanted to. Whether it be due to funding or time.

I'd argue the lack of FF7 concept was a funding issue more than anything, Nintendo has money sure, but they were not doing nearly as financially well as they are now in 2016 (when we first heard of Sakurai already having his next project decided). As we do know that Cloud apparently almost didn't even make it into Ultimate in the first place, I think it makes way more sense to assume he was simply too expensive to properly represent in the game at the time.

I think Banjo got in primarily, and really, only because Microsoft and Phil Spencer was perfectly alright with just adding Banjo and Kazooie. Minecraft may be owned by Microsoft as an IP, but it's original developer Mojang is still the team Sakurai would have to discuss the matters with properly to make it happen. If anything, it's more likely that Banjo and Kazooie is the reason why Steve could have the best possible ties to make it actually happen.

And on the Party Crash thing, while not even related to the subject matter, I really think it's just because Mr. Yabuki just wanted Min Min the most. I always felt that developer bias was probably going to play a part, since Sakurai does make it a point to discuss character additions with the character's original developers, and he literally outright said she was Yabuki's recommendation. While I'd love the lore of the ARMS Champion being the one invited, the story presented in the fighter reveal trailer really doesn't portray that narrative either. So I really think it was mostly just the developer bias that led that decision to occur.
- - -
From a business standpoint it just makes sense to save time and probably money by just looking at concepts that were already made and see if they can be made a reality. I'm not outright saying, "nah they cant add some new game advertisement character", but I did figure that these fighters will mostly be ideas they just didn't or couldn't make happen earlier in Ultimate's development after Min Min's inclusion.

Yeah, I guess that's basically what I meant. Obviously development time is a thing to consider, and it's likely that most of the characters we got as DLC weren't ever intended to be in the base game. Plant and Steve being the main ones you could make an argument for them having to purposely hold off.

It could've been a funding issue holding back FF7 content, sure. But not even the Chocobo costume coming back until recently? Whatever the case, I think that Sephiroth has been planned as a DLC character for quite a while.

Well, if we believe that Steve has been in talks for roughly 5 years then I'm more inclined to believe that Nintendo had their eyes set on him before Banjo. I think Banjo's popularity in the Smash Ballot, along with Microsoft/Phil Spencer being so easy going toward the idea was primarily what got Banjo in. Because between Minecraft and Banjo-Kazooie, only one of those two franchises makes marketing sense to add in as DLC in today's gaming landscape.

I completely disagree with the Party Crash Bash not having anything to do with what ARMS character they chose to add in as DLC. The timing and length of the tournament makes complete sense, and the winner and runner up of that tournament got the playable role and Mii Fighter Costume consolation prize respectively. It'd be a pretty insane coincidence if they weren't looking at those results to determine which popular ARMS character they should add in as DLC. I highly doubt that the story of Mr. Yabuki wanting Min Min the most is where it ends. There's simply more that goes into choosing a playable Smash character to consider than that. What's more likely to me is that the full story is Mr. Yabuki wanted Min Min the most 'because she won the popularity tournament.' It's not like the devs are ever entirely transparent as to how the playable characters are decided.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Yeah, though the licensing nightmare with even just the Shonen Jump characters would be astounding..throwing all of anime in there with be an absolute, near impossible nightmare..part of why there are few, if any, games that crossover many anime characters from different companies. If you guys though Square-Enix was difficult to work with, licensing-wise, or that Disney would be 'impossible', just try to imagine having to negotiate with not only the owners of the manga, but the anime adaption people, the overseas licensees (per territory), etc..there's a reason even the big Jump Crossover Games have stayed Japanese Dub only..and why almost none of them reached Western shores..

I mean you can go small first just like Smash with only Nintendo characters and little by little if the series succeed and is very profitable then you know that some author will lend their manga to be featured (I'm not including the anime director of said adaptation cause it will all boiled down to whether or not the author allow it and this could be said with anime original in which you have to talk to the director). Tho you already know that everyone is already tired of seeing Goku, Naruto, and Luffy appearing on a lackluster arena fighting game but that won't help cause Shonen Jump is basically Nintendo of manga/anime world. I mean at least if they want to make a crossover anime/manga game they don't need to add "Jump" or any form of indication that it's obviously only include Shonen title, make it just like Super Smash Bros where it's super vague and doesn't ties in directly to Nintendo other than Bros. which always used in Mario games.


Tho about them having only Japan Dub is not a big problem as I can't see a time where an english dub actor have to voice 5 different characters and will sound too similar, like all english dub anime sounds like.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

There are a couple I think people are sleeping on as well

• Geno

I'll just tell it straight; why would Sakurai and his team make a Mii outfit for Geno and the actual character on two different waves of the same Fighters Pass?

That kind of double dipping sounds like ****ty business to me. Especially for someone like Sakurai who truly cares about the fans.

And I think this is a big reason why Mii Costumes deconfirm characters; because making you pay twice for someone like Geno, Heihachi or Travis is just bad and wouldn't reflect well on Nintendo as a business in the long run.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'll just tell it straight; why would Sakurai and his team make a Mii outfit for Geno and the actual character on two different waves of the same Fighters Pass?

That kind of double dipping sounds like ****ty business to me. Especially for someone like Sakurai who truly cares about the fans.

It really isn't a crap business decision, it's just that what makes Geno soooooo special over literally every other character who's also a Mii Costume to the point that Geno's the only one who still has a shot? The only answer is "I want him and I refuse to believe he's out of the count"

But not even the Chocobo costume coming back until recently?

This applies to literally every third party costume, absolutely none of them returned in the base game

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It really isn't a crap business decision, it's just that what makes Geno soooooo special over literally every other character who's also a Mii Costume to the point that Geno's the only one who still has a shot? The only answer is "I want him and I refuse to believe he's out of the count"

My edit actually explained why I think it's a crap call.

And I think this is a big reason why Mii Costumes deconfirm characters; because making you pay twice for someone like Geno, Heihachi or Travis is just bad and wouldn't reflect well on Nintendo as a business in the long run.

And... I actually didn't want to just resort to pointing out how stubborn Geno fans can be. They get enough **** since the Sephiroth presentation already.

 

[AEMehr]

Yeah, I guess that's basically what I meant. Obviously development time is a thing to consider, and it's likely that most of the characters we got as DLC weren't ever intended to be in the base game. Plant and Steve being the main ones you could make an argument for them having to purposely hold off.

I think Plant is the only fighter really purposely held off, but even then, it's still impossible to tell how much work was done on the character when shown off a month prior to the game's launch. But I mean, if it came out the tail end of the same month it must have JUST missed the mark.

It could've been a funding issue holding back FF7 content, sure. But not even the Chocobo costume coming back until recently? Whatever the case, I think that Sephiroth has been planned as a DLC character for quite a while.

They didn't buy back any of the DLC Mii Costumes from third-party companies whatsoever, so I don't think that really means anything. The addition of Hero was the addition of Dragon Quest to Smash, so fittingly they only focused on that IP for that selection of costumes. While an iconic character, I really don't think anybody would have been that torn up of it not returning had we not gotten the opportunity for Sephiroth to be added to the game. It makes a lot more sense to think it was simply a matter of things out prioritizing the other imo.

Well, if we believe that Steve has been in talks for roughly 5 years then I'm more inclined to believe that Nintendo had their eyes set on him before Banjo. I think Banjo's popularity in the Smash Ballot, along with Microsoft/Phil Spencer being so easy going toward the idea was primarily what got Banjo in. Because between Minecraft and Banjo-Kazooie, only one of those two franchises makes marketing sense to add in as DLC in today's gaming landscape.

Well we only know "discussion" had existed for at least 5 years prior. But the nature of how those talks went and how seriously they were taken at which times will never be known. So iunno if we can REALLY say Nintendo had a preference in that respect, but I wouldn't be surprised for the reason you mentioned.

I completely disagree with the Party Crash Bash not having anything to do with what ARMS character they chose to add in as DLC. The timing and length of the tournament makes complete sense, and the winner and runner up of that tournament got the playable role and Mii Fighter Costume consolation prize respectively. It'd be a pretty insane coincidence if they weren't looking at those results to determine which popular ARMS character they should add in as DLC. I highly doubt that the story of Mr. Yabuki wanting Min Min the most is where it ends. There's simply more that goes into choosing a playable Smash character to consider than that. What's more likely to me is that the full story is Mr. Yabuki wanted Min Min the most 'because she won the popularity tournament.' It's not like the devs are ever entirely transparent as to how the playable characters are decided.

I mean I guess it could be, but given the nature of the two characters that actually topped the tournament, I honestly think they were the two that would have been considered anyways lol.
Min Min with the bias and gameplay reasons since she's adept at kicking for cqc and Ninjara because he was literally the game's most played character at launch and just overall very popular as well. Iunno how much ARMS you played but really when that game came out you ran into him the most lol.
For that reason, I realllly don't think it did much more than what the characters already had. If anything, I think it was more of a "proof of concept" than "market research". But that's just my perspective since I'd been following that game for awhile anyways.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What's more likely to me is that the full story is Mr. Yabuki wanted Min Min the most 'because she won the popularity tournament.'

I should point out Yabuki has always been vocal about Min Min being his favorite, even back in 2017, years before her Party Crash Bash win.

Whether or not the Party Crash Bash helped is something we can't really know for absolutely sure, but director bias is clearly a big factor here since the ramen girl has always been Yabuki's favorite ARMS fighter.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

My edit actually explained why I think it's a crap call.



And... I actually didn't want to just resort to pointing out how stubborn Geno fans can be. They get enough **** since the Sephiroth presentation already.

Literally nobody would complain if a popular character who got Mii'd would be playable because "I already spent money". I get where you're coming from as people buy Mii Costumes because it's better than nothing, but 1: 75 cents being seen as obselete isn't a big deal breaker. 2: Miis being consolation prizes are because they couldn't become playable, meaning it's never happening to begin with.


Oh that was meant at literally anyone saying a Mii'd character still has a chance, Geno's not the only one as it happens all the time to Rex and I've even seen a few people do the same for Travis, a character I really ****in want

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Literally nobody would complain if a popular character who got Mii'd would be playable because "I already spent money". I get where you're coming from as people buy Mii Costumes because it's better than nothing, but 1: 75 cents being seen as obselete isn't a big deal breaker. 2: Miis being consolation prizes are because they couldn't become playable, meaning it's never happening to begin with.

True on that first one, but I'd be really afraid of the timeline where we encourage Nintendo to set up double dippings just because we're hyped.

But that second one just further boosts where I'm coming from, because there's no point in wasting time and resources on a Mii outfit when you already work on the real thing as a character. It may be 75 cents for us (95 for me because ), but who knows how many work hours are spent on that cheap outfit. It's probably not worth setting up a fake-out when that time could instead be used to add a character who isn't in the lineup.

It's also why I think a Zelda character is out of the running; that Ancient Armor outfit would've been perfect for a Zelda character's wave of outfits.

Oh that was meant at literally anyone saying a Mii'd character still has a chance, Geno's not the only one as it happens all the time to Rex and I've even seen a few people do the same for Travis, a character I really ****in want

Oh, fair enough then.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

True on that first one, honestly.

But that second one just further boosts where I'm coming from, because there's no point in wasting time and resources on a Mii outfit when you already work on the real thing as a character. It may be 75 cents for us (95 for me because ), but who knows how many work hours are spent on that cheap outfit. It's probably not worth setting up a fake-out.

It's also why I think a Zelda character is out of the running; that Ancient Armor outfit would've been perfect for a Zelda character's wave of outfits.


Oh, fair enough then.

That doesn't make it bad, just really ****ing weird because while it means more profits from the same character which may not even need an extra licence for it, the extra bundles of 75 cents is hardly a big enough deal to go against the entire point of them

 

[Scamper52596]

I think Plant is the only fighter really purposely held off, but even then, it's still impossible to tell how much work was done on the character when shown off a month prior to the game's launch. But I mean, if it came out the tail end of the same month it must have JUST missed the mark.

They didn't buy back any of the DLC Mii Costumes from third-party companies whatsoever, so I don't think that really means anything. The addition of Hero was the addition of Dragon Quest to Smash, so fittingly they only focused on that IP for that selection of costumes. While an iconic character, I really don't think anybody would have been that torn up of it not returning had we not gotten the opportunity for Sephiroth to be added to the game. It makes a lot more sense to think it was simply a matter of things out prioritizing the other imo.

Well we only know "discussion" had existed for at least 5 years prior. But the nature of how those talks went and how seriously they were taken at which times will never be known. So iunno if we can REALLY say Nintendo had a preference in that respect, but I wouldn't be surprised for the reason you mentioned.

I mean I guess it could be, but given the nature of the two characters that actually topped the tournament, I honestly think they were the two that would have been considered anyways lol.
Min Min with the bias and gameplay reasons since she's adept at kicking for cqc and Ninjara because he was literally the game's most played character at launch and just overall very popular as well. Iunno how much ARMS you played but really but when that game came out he ran into him the most lol.
For that reason, I realllly don't think it did much more than what the characters already had. If anything, I think it was more of a "proof of concept" than "this is what we need to use". But that's just my perspective since I've been following that game for awhile anyways.

Plus, Plant has a Palutena's Guidance, so it's pretty likely he was initially planned to be in the base game.

Right. I somehow wasn't aware of this. Thanks to you and Cutie Gwen for pointing that out to me. I dunno; something still just feels off to me about FF7 not having any additional content in the base game aside from Cloud's Spirit. Could've totally just been a funding issue though.

Which is why we're only left to speculate. To me, it just feels like Banjo wouldn't have been seriously considered if it weren't for his popularity as a character choice during the Smash Ballot days influencing Nintendo to go out of their way to do so. Steve on the other hand makes complete sense, especially with Minecraft now being on the Switch.

You're probably right about Min Min and Ninjara being the most popular picks anyway, so no surprise there. XD
I've actually played quite a bit of ARMS when it first came out, and Min Min was my main. So I was pretty excited when she got revealed for Smash, but I was already expecting her to be the playable choice thanks to the Party Crash Bash as well as her moveset just being so fitting for Smash already like you mentioned. You also might be right about the "proof of concept" part. If a character won that Nintendo didn't end up wanting to make a DLC character out of they could easily just have chosen the second or third place character. I do believe that they wanted to at least determine the most popular picks though via that tournament because Nintendo wants to sell as much DLC as possible, so going with a character that most of the ARMS audience can get behind just makes sense.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Are we getting that "Plant was planned for base game" stuff again?

Because I always thought that making him a DLC was always part of the plan; he was simply decided on and worked on early enough that a Guidance could be recorded.

The fact that the IDs for amiibo separates him from Daisy when other franchises with multiple base game newcomers/returning vets doesn't just further proves my thought, imo,

 

[AEMehr]

ok but have you considered the timeline where we could have gotten a full cg trailer for piranha plant though

how the heck would that have worked
would it have been a fake pikmin trailer or something? lol

 

[Dinoman96]

I think Banjo got in primarily, and really, only because Microsoft and Phil Spencer was perfectly alright with just adding Banjo and Kazooie. Minecraft may be owned by Microsoft as an IP, but it's original developer Mojang is still the team Sakurai would have to discuss the matters with properly to make it happen. If anything, it's more likely that Banjo and Kazooie is the reason why Steve could have the best possible ties to make it actually happen. Existing connections made as a result of that first character addition must have made it super easy to contact Mojang.

It's the other way around lol

Who saved Rare?

Eight years ago, Eurogamer printed the article 'Who killed Rare?'It was a sad read for fans of the studio. It came at a…

www.gamesindustry.biz

"Minecraft had paved the way for that relationship between Nintendo and Microsoft," Duncan recalls. "I met with Nintendo at the E3 before we announced it. And then we connected our teams, because we thought it seemed like a great opportunity.

Considering everything we know, it's pretty obvious Nintendo originally just talked to Microsoft about getting Steve in Smash, but then that also happened to open the door for Banjo's inclusion as well.

 

[NintenRob]

ok but have you considered the timeline where we could have gotten a full cg trailer for piranha plant though

how the heck would that have worked
would it have been a fake pikmin trailer or something? lol

This is how it would have played out.

Mario is jumping through a simple looking Mario level. He comes across a pipe with a plant, he waits for it to go back down as you would when playing a regular 2D Mario game, he attempts to jump over when the plant suddenly returns and bites Mario on the foot and slams him into the ground in front.

Tagline

Plant turns around to see other members of the cast ready to fight, he pops out of the pipe, revealing his pot and starts to fight.

 

[AEMehr]

It's the other way around lol

Who saved Rare?

Eight years ago, Eurogamer printed the article 'Who killed Rare?'It was a sad read for fans of the studio. It came at a…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Considering everything we know, it's pretty obvious Nintendo originally just talked to Microsoft about getting Steve in Smash, but then that also happened to open the door for Banjo's inclusion as well.

Not to act contrarian for the sake of it, but doesn't it make sense to infer that it is in reference to Minecraft being on Nintendo platforms, which allowed for the two companies to have normal connections to talk to each other in the first place? I mean, the article predates the fighter reveal in October, and there is no reason to think the Rare team has any idea what Mojang is discussing with other companies.

Well still, I get your point in the general sense.