Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Shroob]

Upon further inspection it seems you're correct about Fate. I must have assumed it was under Marvelous because of XSEED publishing the Switch game, since they are in fact a Marvelous subsidiary.

As for your other point, I will simply say that I am familiar enough with the series to comfortably conclude that there are enough ways around whatever obstacles you envision while still keeping the representation faithful to the source material. And also that I recognize a familiar pattern that is forming and is likely to play itself out once again.

Lest we forget Sakurai's words: "Smash is about making the impossible, possible."

If one looks to find patterns in Smash, all they'll find is disappointment. We keep trying to make patterns, and they always blow up in our faces at the end of the day.

 

[Dinoman96]

Why would disney ever say no to sora being in smash

It's not that they would say no, it's just that they would probably ask Nintendo billions of dollars for it lol

 

[BlondeLombax]

It's not that they would say no, it's just that they would probably ask Nintendo billions of dollars for it lol

Yeah, that's honestly the one thing I think we can all agree on is that Disney would be asking for way, way too much in regards to royalties.

 

[3BitSaurus]

• Deamon X Machina
• Sakuna: Of Rice and Ruin
• Multiple No More Heroes games
• Two Senran Kagura games
• At least two Story of Seasons games
• At least one Fate game

To be fair, two of these already got Mii'd or Spirited in Volume 2. DxM got Spirits in V1, so it would technically have a shot, but given how little attention Nintendo gave that game, I doubt it.

Then there's Fate, which doesn't belong to Marvelous, and SK, which... I can't really see happening, especially not as their first rep.

That kinda just leaves Story of Seasons. I dunno, I think it could be a dark horse, but I'm not particularly sure of its chances either way.

I think Travis being turned into a Mii is arguably the biggest reason why people aren't considering Marvelous as strongly anymore. Between being reasonably popular, from a series both relevant and with strong Nintendo ties, the man seemingly had a good deal going for him, but still got a costume.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

There is only one SE Nomura character who's name starts with S worthy of Smash

Reject Sora, Sho is the true solution

 

[osby]

It's not that they would say no, it's just that they would probably ask Nintendo billions of dollars for it lol

You know, I'm not sure if I get this logic.

If Disney is so indiscriminately and ridiculously greedy that using their characters in any sort of video game is above any third party company's (even if said company is one of Japan's richest private businesses) ability to pay... how does Kingdom Hearts exist in the first place?

 

[Theguy123]

I’m seeing all this talk about why Disney won’t allow sora in smash and I’ve got one word for you all. Money

we’re talking about the company that destroyed club penguin out of greed for money and then refused to sell it to someone who actually wants to use it. A game that was loved by a huge community and was making them a heck of a lot of money and yet they still wanted more.

they’re also in a legal battle currently between their actors over money because they were breaking their contracts to avoid paying them more money so that they get more money.

i can’t see a world where Disney agree a feasible price for sora in smash. I just can’t.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Can't believe y'all are talking about Sakurai disliking water instead of the fact that, according to the interview, the man is so mysterious the X-Files theme plays everywhere he goes

WAIT WHA--
(cue perfect transition into the next comment)

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I don't necessarily think it's a case of Disney asking for too much money from Nintendo for Sora as much as it just might be that the overall deal/negotiation for him involved too much compromise. Assuming that there was talk between both parties about getting him in, it could very well be that the edicts and conditions by Disney/SE (how he's presented, what settings/elements from KH can be used, specifics about song inclusion, if he could or couldn't be permanently available as DLC) made Nintendo eventually walk away because he was simply not considered worth it.

As beloved as Sora is, its entirely plausible that Big N's conclusion was that there other third party characters close in popularity within the contemporary gaming scene that would be much easier to get.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Yeah, if Sakurai were to go the extra mile and include Disney content with Sora, all hell would break loose with the likes of Goku stans flooding Nintendo's inboxes & social media with demands for him to be added to the game. If he winds up being asked about it in the future, I'm certain this is bound to be at least part of Sakurai's response.

I mean
Sakurai could just ask Nintendo to make an official statement saying 4th party characters won't happen at all and that in this hypothetical situation, including Donald and Goofy or whatever in some of Sora's animations is the only exception we will get.




Also a hypothetical KH spirit board doesn't need to have like 13 characters.
Banjo's board only has 7 spirits.
So KH fans, maybe you can pick up around 7-10 spirits that could hypothetically be used.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

i can’t see a world where Disney agree a feasible price for sora in smash. I just can’t

I can, have you seen all the bad and weird KH merch?

 

[Lyncario]

Also a hypothetical KH spirit board doesn't need to have like 13 characters.
Banjo's board only has 7 spirits.
So KH fans, maybe you can pick up around 7-10 spirits that could hypothetically be used.

Funnily enough, for the hypothetical spirit board, KH could easily give 13 KH original characters, considering that one of the main vilains of the series is called Organisation XIII, who are all original characters created for the series.

But for the challenge of only picking 10 original KH characters for spirits:
-Riku
-Kairi
-Roxas
-Namine
-Xion
-Axel
-Ventus
-Aqua
-Terra
-Xehanort

Riku and Kairi form the og trio of the series alongside Sora, Roxas, Xion, and Axel are the second trio of the series and part of Organisation XIII (though Xion is the 14th member in spite of the name of the organisation), Namine, while not part of a trio or Organisation XIII, is still a very important character for the plot and especialy Roxas in KH2, Ventus, Aqua, and Terra are the trio of the prequel, and Xehanort is the main vilain of the series. So 10 easy KH original characters to be spirited for Sora's spirit board if he joined Smash.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Like for god sakes, there is a Kingdom Hearts spoon and fork set and a tissue box cover. a ****ing OFFICAL KH SPOON AND FORK SET

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Like for god sakes, there is a Kingdom Hearts spoon and fork set and a tissue box cover. a ****ing OFFICAL KH SPOON AND FORK SET

So... let me get this right. Disney won't allow Kingdom Hearts to be in Smash because part of it belongs to them (there's Disney characters in it for heaven's sake), but they allow a silverware set and a tissue box to have Kingdom Hearts related content on it.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Funnily enough, or the hypothetical spirit board, KH could easily give 13 KH original characters, considering that one of the main vilains of the series is called Organisation XIII, who are all original characters created for the series.

But for the challenge of only picking 10 original KH characters for spirits:
-Riku
-Kairi
-Roxas
-Namine
-Xion
-Axel
-Ventus
-Aqua
-Terra
-Xehanort

Riku and Kairi form the og trio of the series alongside Sora, Roxas, Xion, and Axel are the second trio of the series and part of Organisation XIII, Namine, while not part of a trio or Organisation XIII (though Xion is the 14th member), is still a very important character for the plot and especialy Roxas in KH2, Ventus, Aqua, and Terra are the trio of the preque, and Xehanort is the main vilain of the series. So 10 easy KH original characters to be spirited for Sora's spirit board if he joined Smash.

Nice!
Looked up all those characters and they look cool.
Xehanort reminds me of Luxord a bit.

I wonder if Disney would hypothetically allow KH-design Disney characters as spirits. Probably, but could be too expensive. But I digress.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

So... let me get this right. Disney won't allow Kingdom Hearts to be in Smash because part of it belongs to them (there's Disney characters in it for heaven's sake), but they allow a silverware set and a tissue box to have Kingdom Hearts related content on it.

No what I'm saying is its easy for Square Enix to make merch they want with the game they even have laundry mesh bags that were just added to their store. They also have a Kingdom Hearts metal picture frame on the store as well. They even have handbags, wallets, and countless figurines and plushies. Part of getting Sora also lies with Square Enix in case people forgot. Yes Kingdom Hearts is Disney but Sora is made by nomura

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The thing with Smash is its visibility. Disney likely doesn't really blink twice at lousy or tacky merch related to Kingdom Hearts because only so many people are going to see it anyway, and dubious looking KH silverware really won't affect the series' image that much. But a game like Ultimate, literally the best-selling fighting game of all time and a franchise that has become an entertainment staple as big, if not bigger, than KH itself?

You can be damn sure Disney would be a great deal more involved in how it's presented, especially when it could very be the biggest exposure of the series to non-fans, especially younger ones.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

You can find HMKilla on twitter would give you farm more insight on this whole "Disney says no" thing because he has knowledge on the matter and also has to deal with tweets like that on the regular basis on Twitter lol

 

[SKX31]

It's true, unfortunately.
Kingdom Hearts doesn't have enough memorable original characters

enough interesting original locations

enough breeds of enemies

or unique moveset potential for Sora

to support a playable Smash inclusion without seemingly shoving Disney content into every single facet.

After all, the only reason people care about Kingdom Hearts in any capacity is because Disney characters pop up in between the several dozen hours' worth of story, lore, and character building over the course of 10 games and 18 years.

While it's a good point, IIRC all of that is still mostly under Disney's purview from a legal standpoint (although considering how KH started there's a chance that the legal rights might be "spread around" akin to Cloud / Sephiroth). Meaning that Nintendo would have to consult them regardless of whether we're talking just the OC material or the "Disney proper" content - but they might not get everything related to the OCs sorted out by just talking with Disney and say Nomura. They might have to discuss with both and other parties involved just to "get" those characters.

As far as the "Disney proper" content goes it's another thorny question. That is more or less under one roof and very much part of KH's image (I mean, promo material almost never skip Mickey, Donald or Goofy even if they play a less significant role in the story than Xenahort), and it may prove ironically easier to "get" (depending on how the exact situation is with the KH OCs) - because Sakurai and Nintendo would go through a lot of trouble just to "get" the KH OCs already. But we don't know how comfortable Sakurai is with putting "4th party" material in a visible NPC role (as a stage background cameo or whatnot). I'd also be curious to see what Nintendo execs - including Miyamoto - think of putting Mickey in the same game as Mario, even if Mickey and Mario do not attack each other. Especially considering that Miyamoto has often compared Mario with Mickey, chances are he'd keep an eye on any Sora-related negotiations. At the same time, LiveStudioAudience has an important and valid point here - putting Sora in Smash would incentivize Disney to put "The best foot forward", and might cause further complications since Disney may want say Mickey in or something else related to how Sora and the other KH OCs are presented.

Any decision re: whether or not to limit things to just the KH OCs is not going to be an easy decision.

 

[Perkilator]

You can find HMKilla on twitter would give you farm more insight on this whole "Disney says no" thing because he has knowledge on the matter and also has to deal with tweets like that on the regular basis on Twitter lol

Or this:

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Honestly I think Sora is probably one of the likeliest characters to be the final character of this Fighters Pass. I can see Disney having second thoughts if Nintendo negotiated with them before and it didn't go through and I always thought it was pretty strange that there are 6 characters this time instead of 5. Maybe Challenger Pack 11 was done a little later than the rest but that's just my theory.

 

[Theguy123]

With the September direct coming up and it’s speculated that the last fighter is coming up I wanna bring up the 40 name list leak again.

This isn’t a topic to say if it’s real or not. The question I wanna ask is if this is potentially real (big if) then Who fits the bill for being revealed off the list in the September direct.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Sora would be a great finish to the pass

I feel like the dude's one of the most requested characters worldwide as of the time this message was typed out.

 

[PeridotGX]

DLC characters come without what Smash fans deem essential for their franchise's representation all the time.

Cloud and Sephiroth got in without almost anything from SNES FF games.
Bayonetta got in without anything that made her game rated M.
Joker got in without Jack Frost.
Banjo got in without Kazooie's personality.

Sora becoming playable with no Mickey isn't nearly as a big hurdle as people are making it up to be.

Kingdom Hearts without any Disney would be really weird, but Pokemon with barely any Trainer representation is just as weird and here we are.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

With the September direct coming up and it’s speculated that the last fighter is coming up I wanna bring up the 40 name list leak again.

This isn’t a topic to say if it’s real or not. The question I wanna ask is if this is potentially real (big if) then Who fits the bill for being revealed off the list in the September direct.

I don't remember the list of characters it presented.

 

[Theguy123]

I don't remember the list of characters it presented.

edit: for some reason it won’t let me attach the post

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't remember the list of characters it presented.

It's fake anyways because it's missing Min Min as well as anything from ARMS.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

It could be poetic.
Sora's not SE but is heavily associated with them so...

The Heroes went after Dharkon's minions
Sephiroth shut down Galeem and went after the roster itself
Sora puts an end to Dharkon AND Sephiroth?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

It's true, unfortunately.
Kingdom Hearts doesn't have enough memorable original characters

enough interesting original locations

enough breeds of enemies

or unique moveset potential for Sora

to support a playable Smash inclusion without seemingly shoving Disney content into every single facet.

After all, the only reason people care about Kingdom Hearts in any capacity is because Disney characters pop up in between the several dozen hours' worth of story, lore, and character building over the course of 10 games and 18 years.

Say it louder for the people in the back please

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Reason Sora ain't likely is as mentioned knowing Disney they would ask for a billion dollars for his inclusion.

Even then Kingdom Hearts is best known for its Disney content and that not being of video game origin.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

It's fake anyways because it's missing Min Min as well as anything from ARMS.

He said that he wasn't trying to do a discussion on whether it was fake or not.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Man, Ive never seen people so threatened by Sora before that they come up with any and all escuses as to why he cant be in smash

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Sora would be a great finish to the pass

I feel like the dude's one of the most requested characters worldwide as of the time this message was typed out.

Chances are we're likely ending with a mid-tier pick around the levels of Phoenix Wright. Whether 1st or 3rd party is to be seen.

 

[RileyXY1]

Reason Sora ain't likely is as mentioned knowing Disney they would ask for a billion dollars for his inclusion.

Even then Kingdom Hearts is best known for its Disney content and that not being of video game origin.

And once Smash includes any non-video game content, Pandora's Box will be opened and there will be no way to close it ever again.

 

[Dinoman96]

The list is also fake anyways because, again, Nintendo doesn't even seem to care about which specific character gets in, they just care about the brands being repped.

They asked Sakurai to include characters from ARMS, Xenoblade 2, Minecraft and Tekken, not Min Min, Pyra/Mythra, Steve and Kazuya specifically. Sakurai came up with those. For all Nintendo cared, the characters could of been Helix, Morag, Creeper and Paul Phoenix if that's what Sakurai really wanted.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

And once Smash includes any non-video game content, Pandora's Box will be opened and there will be no way to close it ever again.

"Bu-b-but Dracul-"

Not the source material version but the Castlevania version. There's a difference.

"What about R.O.-"

He was made in association for video games.

"Well there's Dr. Kawa-"

That's a video game version of him and its a floating polygon head.

 

[Schnee117]

You can really tell who actually reads what's posted in this thread

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It's worth noting that there is a difference between dismissing Sora as a possibility outright and understanding the context that explains why he might not get in. The key factor with him isn't that he's an impossibility or even really unlikely, just that there are so many various factors involved with (including ones we obviously don't know about) that could potentially be a detriment to his inclusion, specifically because of how unique his circumstances are.

To me, he's like a Gen 8 Pokémon; him getting in or not getting in would not be a surprise and would make complete sense either way.

 

[Theguy123]

The list is also fake anyways because, again, Nintendo doesn't even seem to care about which specific character gets in, they just care about the brands being repped.

They asked Sakurai to include characters from ARMS, Xenoblade 2, Minecraft and Tekken, not Min Min, Pyra/Mythra, Steve and Kazuya specifically. Sakurai came up with those. For all Nintendo cared, the characters could of been Helix, Morag, Creeper and Paul Phoenix if that's what Sakurai really wanted.

I’m not sticking up for the leak in anyway here but Nintendo isn’t gonna tell us who they wanted specifically so it makes sense for sakurai to come out and say something along the lines off “Nintendo said they wanted a minecraft character” rather than saying something like “Nintendo wanted Alex but I chose Steve” so they people don’t get mad at anything which I know you’re probably thinking “that’s ridiculous” but this fanbase is rather quite toxic so the thought of them getting mad because sakurai chose a specific character is rather than what Nintendo wanted or people getting mad at Nintendo for choosing a certain character is not that farfetched

not to mention it got some really out there stuff that no one even batted an eye at correctly. Like no one even thought byleth would’ve made it in, no one even batted an eye at terry etc.

I’m not saying the leak is real or fake, I’m just saying we can’t just assume that Nintendo didn’t want specific characters. We’re never gonna know what goes on at Nintendo’s work place.

Not to mention it wasn’t about whether this leak was fake or real, I was just asking the question who do people think off the list would fit a September Direct reveal

 

[SNEKeater]

And once Smash includes any non-video game content, Pandora's Box will be opened and there will be no way to close it ever again.

Then I guess Pandora's Box was already opened...

And one of Terry's alts is a direct reference to the Fatal Fury anime show...

Edit: **** and I forgot about Cloud and his Advent Children alt lmao