Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Mushroomguy12]

I am also aware X technically should get first billing (though I am making a moveset for him too).

Zero got in before X in MvC and TvC so that's not always the case.

 

[Metal Shop X]

As someone would kinda prefer Roxax/Xion over Sora due to my....rather unique experience with the franchise. I still be pretty cool with Sora getting in, if only because his moveset could be crazy unique/fun and we would get some god tier musics with him.

 

[Idon]

Zero got in before X in MvC and TvC so that's not always the case.

Well...
should.

I love Zero but it's definitely weird we have both him and Tron Bonne over Mega Man or X.
Doesn't mean that's always the case when it comes to fighting game roster decisions.

 

[Sucumbio]

I'd actually be totally down for Sora and Disney all up in Smash. I know it's a popular pick everywhere including Japan. And it's definitely a good series (if we're looking purely at sales). While I personally couldn't get into it, I'd never knock anyone for liking it. And who knows maybe if they make it in as the last character it'll lead to a resurgence in popularity and maybe some switch remasters. I'd even try it again. I was playing FF12 obsessively at the time my friend let me borrow Kingdom Hearts so my attention for it was really lame. But all these years later sure why not try it out again.

And if it does set up the precedent for non video game originations to be included then the next game's base roster could see the inclusion of DBZ or any other awesome franchise in this category of not originally being a video game character.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Well...
should.

I love Zero but it's definitely weird we have both him and Tron Bonne over Mega Man or X.
Doesn't mean that's always the case when it comes to fighting game roster decisions.

We already have Classic Mega Man in Smash, they usually don't include more than one variant of the blue bomber in a single game, opting to go for different characters alongside a single variant of Megaman (for example, they had Megaman Volnutt alongside Zero and Roll in TvC). And to be honest, I would prefer it that way anyway for diversity sake when there's limited space on the roster.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Now I'm genuinely curious. What do people think of Kingdom Heart's story/writing. From the clips I've seen, the writing seems to have a "let's make sure the kids can still follow what's going on" vibe but it's also not bad. As for the story...well I don't really know much about it other than how complicated it is and uh...

Spoiler: Probably minor visual spoilers for Kingdom Hearts

It's pretty convoluted with its lore, but it's not gratuitous, every concept introduced is used. It all sounds pretty complicated - because it is - but it's easy to follow as you play each game. It's not very deep in terms of philosophy, granted, which leads to those "darkness" conversations that always get meme'd (though if we're being fair I think that might be a cultural difference, and in Japanese they sound cool).

One easy way to know who hasn't played KH is when they don't mention the most important aspect of the games which is the relationships and friendships that bloom between the characters. In that regard I'd say they nailed the writing, I don't think the series would have gone on for 18 years without people wanting to see those plotlines resolved.

 

[Idon]

We already have Classic Mega Man in Smash, they usually don't include more than one variant of the blue bomber in a single game, opting to go for different characters alongside a single variant of Megaman (for example, they had Megaman Volnutt alongside Zero in TvC). And to be honest, I would prefer it that way anyway for diversity sake when there's limited space on the roster.

Well yeah Ultimate already has Mega Man, but Zero is also an Assist Trophy so I'm clearly not talking about feasible additions now.

If X was included, he'd replace Mega Man, not be there in addition to him.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Hey so if anyone cares I made a moveset for Zero from the Mega Man X series.

Yes, I'm aware he's an Assist Trophy, I am also aware we already have classic Mega Man, and I am also aware X technically should get first billing (though I am making a moveset for him too).
However, I have just played through the X legacy collection and Zero is the coolest so screw it, he deserves it:

Me when anyone posts anything related to having Zero in Smash:

 

[Idon]

Me when anyone posts anything related to having Zero in Smash:
View attachment 326442

Well this is MMX Zero, though I did borrow some elements from MMZ Zero.
I'm personally only on Zero 2 of the series so I can't really say much about him.

That said, the MMX Zero thread and thread owner is kinda dead so... if no one's gonna take charge of that I will if the mods will let me.

 

[SKX31]

Now I'm genuinely curious. What do people think of Kingdom Heart's story/writing. From the clips I've seen, the writing seems to have a "let's make sure the kids can still follow what's going on" vibe but it's also not bad. As for the story...well I don't really know much about it other than how complicated it is and uh...

I'm one of those who considers it all over the place, really wonky but fun regardless:

1. The main story is being pulled in two different directions - A) the relatively straightforward conflict between Sora and co on one end, and Xenahort and the Heartless on the other, and B) the need to stretch this over multiple 40 hour games. This pull does not help the story much since the writing not only winds up with twists and turns that go to strange places (the entire plot in 3D is the best example, but really, a lot of the earlier subplots also do this) and the writers trying to give the main conflict more gravitas than it needs to. It does give it its memetic charm, yes, but it still leaves the story feeling... off at points.

2. The story's really being carried by character relationships and dynamics more than the conflict. Sora and Riku's relationship in particular is of note here, especially since it develops rather nicely during the story's progression. There are some characters that get left by the wayside (Kairi up until 3 I'd argue since the story doesn't give her much to do until then), but overall the characters are the highlight and arguably the main reason that the story works. It does help that the voice actors as a whole just go 100 % with it all, which actually helps to give gravitas to the characters themselves. Sora, for example, is a magnetic character partly because of the character, partly because of how his voice actor really nails the part.

3. The established Disney content got really tossed to the sideline pretty hard until KH3 - where the villains actually start interacting with the Disney cast writ large and not just Mickey / Yen Sid / Maleficient, and one can certainly argue that the established S-E content got the same treatment if not even more so (especially in 3 where most S-E characters are absent). While one can justify this by pointing out that this is Sora and co.'s story, the Disney / S-E content doesn't really figure into the story when a newcomer might expect them to do so. For example, the "Princesses of Heart" concept is established as "6 Disney Princesses + Kairi" and as an important concept... only for that to be absent for most games and only set up as a "sorta-McGuffin" for 1 and 3.

Overall, it's janky. But it's not really super-serious at its core and the characters are the highlight, as said - and that's what kept the story going despite it all. As Goodgrief said, there's a reason a lot of fans wanted to see where the characters and plotlines went with the next installment during the past 18 years.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

We already have Classic Mega Man in Smash, they usually don't include more than one variant of the blue bomber in a single game, opting to go for different characters alongside a single variant of Megaman (for example, they had Megaman Volnutt alongside Zero and Roll in TvC). And to be honest, I would prefer it that way anyway for diversity sake when there's limited space on the roster.

But like, Mega Man iterations interacting with each other. I need it!

Seriously though. The different Mega Man series interactions could be super cool, especially with most of them being either direct consequences of the previous series in the timeline, or a timeline where things happened very differently.

Even the basic Robot Master/Reploid interactions could be interesting since the only thing that really separates them is their free will or lack thereof. I could totally see the Robot Masters having a sort of uncanny valley effect with the Mega Man X cast, with them viewing the Robot Masters as "almost, but not quite people" due to how their personalities are shaped by and fixed to their job, abilities, or visual design, with most of them being on the "everything I say is a pun" end of the spectrum whenever dialogue is involved.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I love Zero but it's definitely weird we have both him and Tron Bonne over Mega Man or X.
Doesn't mean that's always the case when it comes to fighting game roster decisions.

What do you mean? Mega Man was in MvC long before Zero.

And X is in MvCI.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

But like, Mega Man iterations interacting with each other. I need it!

Seriously though. The different Mega Man series interactions could be super cool, especially with most of them being either direct consequences of the previous series in the timeline, or a timeline where things happened very differently.

Even the basic Robot Master/Reploid interactions could be interesting since the only thing that really separates them is their free will or lack thereof. I could totally see the Robot Masters having a sort of uncanny valley effect with the Mega Man X cast, with them viewing the Robot Masters as "almost, but not quite people" due to how their personalities are shaped by and fixed to their job, abilities, or visual design, with most of them being on the "everything I say is a pun" end of the spectrum whenever dialogue is involved.

I mean there's this......

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

They are.

The world would be a better place if:
Master/Crazy Hands = Andross(64 version)
Galleom = Metal Gear REX
Duom = Death Egg Robot
Tabuu = Mother Brain
Master Core = Giygas
Galeem = Safer Sephiroth
Dharkon = Medusa

Your "favorite" is the Smash ball that turns into a Galactus cloud?

Eh, as much as I love the idea of Sephiroth, Mother Brain and Giygas being bosses, I like the idea of a Smash original final boss.

Galleom and Duon are lame I agree, but the rest are pretty cool.

Master Hand and Crazy Hand being exclusive to Smash makes them feel more climactic than other villains, since you’ll never see them outside Smash (Aside Kirby easter eggs).

Tabbuu, Galeem, and Dharkon, were just misused imo.

Master Hand already was set up as the big bad of SSE so revealing that the mysterious Smash original character was being usurped by another mysterious Smash original character was pointless. Had it been set up that the villains are all working together but nobody knew who was calling the shots till Tabuu showed up, it would’ve been more impactful.

I think WoL would’ve been cooler if it took a page from Kirby Superstar (as Smash loves to do). Galeem and Dharkon are engaged in a war, whoever beats them gets unlimited power. Cue Villain and Heros splitting off into factions in an attempt to beat the two first. It lets the already existing villains do work but keeps the neat designs of Galeem and Dharkon to set up the bosses and climax.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Why are people so scared of opening Pandora’s Box? Don’t you want some soul hearts or boss items?

Spoiler

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean there's this......

A single cameo laser attack isn't quite what I'm looking for.

 

[Idon]

What do you mean? Zero didn't get into MvC before Mega Man.

And X is in MvCI.

Here I'm referring explicitly to MvC3, where there is no MegaMan Volnutt, Mega Man X, or Mega Man, which was weird.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

But like, Mega Man iterations interacting with each other. I need it!

Seriously though. The different Mega Man series interactions could be super cool, especially with most of them being either direct consequences of the previous series in the timeline, or a timeline where things happened very differently.

Even the basic Robot Master/Reploid interactions could be interesting since the only thing that really separates them is their free will or lack thereof. I could totally see the Robot Masters having a sort of uncanny valley effect with the Mega Man X cast, with them viewing the Robot Masters as "almost, but not quite people" due to how their personalities are shaped by and fixed to their job, abilities, or visual design, with most of them being on the "everything I say is a pun" end of the spectrum whenever dialogue is involved.

Yeah, think of a Capcom and SNK crossover fighting game (if that ever happens again) where the classic Mega Man characters interact with Tron Bonne.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

A single cameo laser attack isn't quite what I'm looking for.

Fair, although it's not like there's a Subspace Emissary in this game so they wouldn't interact in any story sense beyond just fighting each other anyway. (And even when there was a Subspace Emissary most of the characters didn't have much dialogue to begin with).

 

[DarthEnderX]

Here I'm referring explicitly to MvC3, where there is no MegaMan Volnutt, Mega Man X, or Mega Man, which was weird.

Ah, okay.

Eh, as much as I love the idea of Sephiroth, Mother Brain and Giygas being bosses, I like the idea of a Smash original final boss.

I'd be willing to tolerate one for the entire series. But I think making one or more new ones for each game is just wasting resources that could be bringing us iconic video game bosses.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Here I'm referring explicitly to MvC3, where there is no MegaMan Volnutt, Mega Man X, or Mega Man, which was weird.

Yup, all we had was a Megaman X alternate costume for Zero, which obviously wasn't really that satisfying for a lot of blue bomber fans.

 

[Merengue]

yeah exactly. All I wanted to know is what characters off the list so people think fit a September reveal even if it’s fake or not.

Porky then.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Fair, although it's not like there's a Subspace Emissary in this game so they wouldn't interact in any story sense beyond just fighting each other anyway. (And even when there was a Subspace Emissary none of the characters had much dialogue to begin with).

True, Super Smash Bros. isn't really the place to go for character interactions, but there are some games with a little more character interactivity like the aforementioned Marvel Vs. Capcom series.

Speaking of character interactivity and Super Smash Bros. though, what if characters had special taunts/taunt quotes that depended on the other characters in the match or in close proximity? For example, instead of that weird plank thing that Luigi does, he calls for Mario like in Luigi's Mansion, and when Mario is nearby he's like "oh hi Mario!" and if Mario isn't doing anything he'll wave back.

 

[RileyXY1]

Why are people so scared of opening Pandora’s Box? Don’t you want some soul hearts or boss items?

Spoiler

Mostly because once Disney gets content in Smash, Smash will never be the same again.

 

[DarthEnderX]

with its lore, but it's not gratuitous, every concept introduced is used

Don't pretend for an instant that **** was planned out that way.

It's very clear that for 90% of the franchise, Nomura was just writing whatever nonsense he felt like. And then for KH3, he's like "Oh crap, now I have to shoehorn all this crap together at the very end."

One easy way to know who hasn't played KH is when they don't mention the most important aspect of the games which is the relationships and friendships that bloom between the characters. In that regard I'd say they nailed the writing, I don't think the series would have gone on for 18 years without people wanting to see those plotlines resolved.

The problem is that it's the SAME character relationship repeated over and over again.

The series just keeps introducing new trios of characters, and has them enact the same Sora/Rikku/Kairi relationship with slight variations.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

As someone would kinda prefer Roxax/Xion over Sora due to my....rather unique experience with the franchise. I still be pretty cool with Sora getting in, if only because his moveset could be crazy unique/fun and we would get some god tier musics with him.

Roxas is a good boy, not gonna lie

The problem is that it's the SAME character relationship repeated over and over again.

The series just keeps introducing new trios of characters, and has them enact the same Sora/Rikku/Kairi relationship with slight variations.

That probably comes from everyone litersly being connected in some way. Hell, Sora literally housed half of those people in his heart to begin with

 

[Mushroomguy12]

True, Super Smash Bros. isn't really the place to go for character interactions, but there are some games with a little more character interactivity like the aforementioned Marvel Vs. Capcom series.

Speaking of character interactivity and Super Smash Bros. though, what if characters had special taunts/taunt quotes that depended on the other characters in the match or in close proximity? For example, instead of that weird plank thing that Luigi does, he calls for Mario like in Luigi's Mansion, and when Mario is nearby he's like "oh hi Mario!" and if Mario isn't doing anything he'll wave back.

You can still have interactions with characters from different Megaman series/time periods, for example with TvC we had classic series Roll, MMX series Zero, and Legends series Volnutt. Likewise with Legends Tron Bonne and MMX Zero in MvC3. They’d just be between different characters in addition to the blue bombers.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mostly because once Disney gets content in Smash, Smash will never be the same again.

Wouldn't make a difference. It's ultimately the same as various non-game characters being readapted into a game but still is different.

Cause that's what it lends to. Dracula is still clearly based upon the original novel character in Castlevania. Him being a non-playable role didn't change a thing. King Mickey, and the KH versions of Donald and Goofy would have the exact same effect. That is, no effect in reality.

If Sakurai was ever going to consider Goku for playability, this wouldn't be why. It's because he actually would want the character and/or franchise in. It has a cultural impact and is more than notable enough for Smash. It not being a game series(unlike KH) is still an important reason he doesn't go for it, but a lot is more to do with immense licensing(which Dragon Quest does prove is possible). Right now, his principles still remain the same, as Nintendo and Sakurai want playable characters/franchises from a game first and foremost. Which... still fits KH. The reality is, while the KH Disney characters technically originated outside of a game, their game versions are still quite different in the long run and aren't the actual original Disney characters either way. Them getting a spirit still would change... nothing. Just like Brawl mentioning one of the Mickey games(which wasn't a unique game version, but just the actual Disney characters in a racing game) had zero impact on stuff like this. Just like Terry having an anime only alternate costume had no effect. Or DK and Sonic having costumes based upon their own animated series overall. These things don't really change anything in the long run. They're cameos. No more, no less. Cameos mean absolutely nothing. Dracula is the biggest addition and adapted originally from a novel when it comes to any kind of big role, and even if he was almost identical to Bram Stoker's version, it wouldn't make a difference.

People way overestimate the effect it has. Sure, some might complain. But there is no slippery slope. Now, when any version of Mickey is playable, then one exists. But cameos already exist, which means the slippery slope doesn't compute with these points.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

As someone would kinda prefer Roxax/Xion over Sora due to my....rather unique experience with the franchise. I still be pretty cool with Sora getting in, if only because his moveset could be crazy unique/fun and we would get some god tier musics with him.

Ideal scenario would be Sora getting in with a Roxas Echo.

 

[FreeFox]

That probably comes from everyone litersly being connected in some way. Hell, Sora literally housed half of those people in his heart to begin with

Kingdom hearts is such a weird series that I am not sure whether what you posted should be or shouldnt be in a spoiler.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Mostly because once Disney gets content in Smash, Smash will never be the same again.

People were saying the same thing about Microsoft.

 

[Momotsuki]

Mega Man X representation? Don't make me simp for Sigma here on this thread...

 

[Idon]

We technically already have some character specific dialogue in victory screens with Lucina talking to Marth and Ike and Simon telling evil/dark characters to **** off.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Man, watching people try to explain Kingdom Hearts lore reminds me of the time I spent two hours giving a brief backround of the Castlevania lore to my friends.

 

[FreeFox]

Man, watching people try to explain Kingdom Hearts lore reminds me of the time I spent two hours giving a brief backround of the Castlevania lore to my friends.

KH lore, Kirby Lore, Dark Souls lore are probably way too expansive to explain in a single topic. Those are three series I never touch upon when it comes to lore. I just try to enjoy the eperience rather than try to make sense of it all.

 

[Sucumbio]

Come to think of it this ties into a conversation a few weeks ago about tangential Smash Series. So Sora is the last fighter in Ultimate right then Like, a spinoff smash game that features all your favorite Disney and Square characters. I'd main Elsa.

 

[Ivander]

Like, a spinoff smash game that features all your favorite Disney and Square characters. I'd main Elsa.

That would be Dissidia Final Fantasy. Dissidia was originally going to be a Kingdom Hearts fighting game that would've had you playing both Kingdom Hearts characters and Disney characters, but for whatever reason, Disney didn't like Disney characters getting beaten up, so it was changed into a Final Fantasy game. And both Dissidia and Dissidia 012 were awesome.

In case you're wondering if Disney has this mindset changed, I'm not sure whether to say yes or no, cause I thought I heard something regarding Marvel vs Capcom Infinite where in the character trailers, the Marvel characters were never beaten up.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

We technically already have some character specific dialogue in victory screens with Lucina talking to Marth and Ike and Simon telling evil/dark characters to **** off.

The list of characters who do this is:

• Chrom
• Dark Pit
• Falco
• Fox
• Lucina
• Palutena
• Robin
• Sephiroth (which makes it even more annoying that he only has Japanese audio)
• Simon
• Wolf

Of these, only Lucina and Simon have quotes for characters that don't already talk all the time together, and Simon's the only one that acknowledges opponents that aren't from their own series. Not every character has the capacity to do this, but I think only 10 of the 89 characters doing this leaves so much missed potential.

 

[7NATOR]

Hey so if anyone cares I made a moveset for Zero from the Mega Man X series.

Yes, I'm aware he's an Assist Trophy, I am also aware we already have classic Mega Man, and I am also aware X technically should get first billing (though I am making a moveset for him too).
However, I have just played through the X legacy collection and Zero is the coolest so screw it, he deserves it:

I really like this Moveset. It's Flashy, has interesting mechanics, Game Accurate, and has one of the cooler Final Smash Concepts I've seen

The only thing I would say is I'm not sure if the Black Zero transformation should be activated at 100%, but perhaps at a earlier percent. I Imagine Zero would be one of the lightest characters in the game like usual, so having to wait till 100% to get a Transformation that will already add 15% to any hit you take might not be good for Zero. 100% works for characters like Terry and Kazuya since they are heavy

I guess it depends on how important you want the Transformation to play in Hypothetical general play. if you want the Transformation to have a more niche presence, keep it at 100%. If you want it to have more of a presence, perhaps lower the percent to 70-75% or something like that.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The list of characters who do this is:

• Chrom
• Dark Pit
• Falco
• Fox
• Lucina
• Palutena
• Robin
• Sephiroth (which makes it even more annoying that he only has Japanese audio)
• Simon
• Wolf

Of these, only Lucina and Simon have quotes for characters that don't already talk all the time together, and Simon's the only one that acknowledges opponents that aren't from their own series. Not every character has the capacity to do this, but I think only 10 of the 89 characters doing this leaves so much missed potential.

wish they'd at least give us subtitles for Cloud, Sephiroth and Kazuya