Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Michael the Spikester]

Watch how with the final fighter in supposedly September that we do get an "assist promotion".

A Shadow Mii Deluxe as with the case with Bomberman.

 

[Opossum]

Alright you brought me back in.

Look, the thing I'm getting at here is that Pokemon are the main selling point of the series, not the trainers. You don't play Pokemon primarily for the trainers, Like I said before, there is no Pokemon game if you have the trainers and no Pokemon.

Trainers are video game stand ins for real life people. The protagonist being the stand in for you as a person where you can form your own Pokemon team and your relationship with those Pokemon. However you can take the Pokemon Trainers out from the games and you'd still have a Pokemon game. You can't do that vice versa as that destroys the entire point of the series, thus it's why Pokemon Trainers can be useful for telling a story but not required for a Pokemon game to function.

Can you see where I'm coming from?

I do get what you're saying, and I think the disconnect happening here is that less important isn't the same thing as unimportant. Like, Luigi is less important than Mario since you could remove Luigi from the platformers and nothing would change, but Luigi is still integral to Mario's series identity. That's kinda what I mean. The way Smash currently treats Pokémon trainers makes them seem like a footnote instead of an integral part of the franchise.

That's basically what I'm saying.

 

[Inferno7]

Watch how with the final fighter in supposedly September that we do get an "assist promotion".

A Shadow Mii Deluxe as with the case with Bomberman.

In that case it wouldn't really be a "promotion"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I still think it could be cool if the Pokémon Trainer could mix and match with the 10 Pokémon on the roster. It would be accurate to how Pokémon Trainers work, and would allow some of the more polarizing designs to shine.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I would laugh if said spirit was MissingNo. and the "glitch" required to obtain it was completely intended. Like, they put Isabelle's item duplication glitch back in, but only for Assist Trophies, and on the third summon, you're taken to MissingNo.'s Spirit Battle.

They should really add MissingNo. as the 1000th Pokemon...

 

[Wigglerman]

I still think it could be cool if the Pokémon Trainer could mix and match with the 10 Pokémon on the roster. It would be accurate to how Pokémon Trainers work, and would allow some of the more polarizing designs to shine.

Pokémon Vs Capcom when?

 

[toonito]

RE: Pokemon Trainer discussion

I agree Pokemon are the main focus of the franchise; we would never get a game with trainers but no Pokemon whereas I feel the opposite is more likely if not already existing with the Mystery Dungeon games.

For Smash it's one of the reasons why I supported Gym Leader Bea for Ultimate as a trainer who fights alongside her Pokemon team unlike PT. However there's a sense of too many humans in DLC so my other choice for Ultimate is Dragapult (its Ghost typing and partially transparent body could have interesting mechanics in Smash)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's worth noting we did have a few Trainer trophies along the way. Not just Pokemon Trainer(the character), but we've had X/Y Trainers as well and a Misty trophy.

They're not absent, but they could certainly have a few more Spirits. Even if it's just Pokemon Trainer(Sword & Shield), etc. It still is nice.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They should really add MissingNo. as the 1000th Pokemon...

They could go even further and make it's Pokédex Number read as NaN (Not a Number). It would exist as a part of an odd glitch that occurs in an incredibly small number of Poké Balls. Is it a Pokémon? Experts hesitate to say yes since it doesn't seem to be alive. It otherwise acts like a Pokémon though. Why does it evolve into a normal Kengaskan? Nobody freaking knows.

Pokémon Vs Capcom when?

I would love the heck out of a Vs. style Pokémon game.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

I got a great Vs Capcom idea. Warner Bros Games vs Capcom. That way, we'll get Street Fighter characters fight against Mortal Kombat characters without fatalities or blood.

 

[Wigglerman]

I got a great Vs Capcom idea. Warner Bros Games vs Capcom. That way, we'll get Street Fighter characters fight against Mortal Kombat characters without fatalities or blood.

I can't wait for DC Vs MK 2

In all honestly, MK without at least the blood effects feels super bleh. I know the series isn't all about the gore but when they get overly 'family friendly' it loses a lot of it's identity. I like its grittier, dirtier aesthetic. In a brighter, cleaner (aka sterile) Capcom fighting game environment? Just choose a different IP to pit Capcom IPs against.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I can't wait for DC Vs MK 2

In all honestly, MK without at least the blood effects feels super bleh. I know the series isn't all about the gore but when they get overly 'family friendly' it loses a lot of it's identity. I like its grittier, dirtier aesthetic. In a brighter, cleaner (aka sterile) Capcom fighting game environment? Just choose a different IP to pit Capcom IPs against.

Yeah like SNK, haven’t seen that crossover yet

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Ayo if only a group consisting of a limited number of people WITHIN Nintendo knew that Byleth was the CP5 fighter...
Imagine how many less people would know who the CP11 fighter is...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If there's any fighting game Mortal Kombat should have a crossover with its Killer Instinct.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Ayo if only a group consisting of a limited number of people WITHIN Nintendo knew that Byleth was the CP5 fighter...
Imagine how many less people would know who the CP11 fighter is...

Part of me really wants to share a theory that I made up for who CP11 could possibly be, but I’d probably get in trouble with the mods due to the evidence I provide being too risqué. That’s what I was referring to a few days ago about me going into “tinfoil hat mode.”

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Part of me really wants to share a theory that I made up for who CP11 could possibly be, but I’d probably get in trouble with the mods due to the evidence I provide being too risqué. That’s what I was referring to a few days ago about me going into “tinfoil hat mode.”

How would evidence be seen as risqué?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Ayo if only a group consisting of a limited number of people WITHIN Nintendo knew that Byleth was the CP5 fighter...
Imagine how many less people would know who the CP11 fighter is...

Who's to say that's not the case for the entirety of Fighter Pass 2?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I didn’t say it was a hint towards shadow or any sonic character. I was just saying how it means Nintendo held talks with sega for FP2. I even said in my original posts that it doesn’t mean a fighter at all. It just means sega and Nintendo held talks along with the other companies I mentioned.

I also meant for the dlc and not in general.

Again, there's a good chance that contracts allows them to reuse CG models for trailers, I doubt Sakurai had to go through Yuji Hori again for the Sephiroth trailer after all, this theory relies on the assumption that Nintendo has zero freedom with the third parties when they were given the OK to murder Mega Man in a CG trailer

 

[Wigglerman]

Yeah like SNK, haven’t seen that crossover yet

Street Fighter should totally crossover with Tekken! That'd work well! Just so long as they don't put a gimmicky stone system into effect that ruins what would otherwise be a fun and solid fighting experience!

 

[Staarih]

Just to hop on a bit to the human characters in Pokemon discussion...

...yes, we definitely should get more acknowledgement of the human characters, even as spirits. For a potential Sw/Sh rep, the spirit board could definitely have someone like Leon or Rose, for example.

Not sure if we'll ever see a human fighter for Pokemon though, apart from PT who we have now. Another trainer probably isn't interesting enough even if the Pokemon they use would be different. I'd totally welcome one though.

I always figured N would have sorta fit the bill, being raised by Pokemon, especially if partnered with a Zorua/Zoroark: the illusion ability and a creative moveset could have made it ambiguous who's actually doing the fighting.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

If there's any fighting game Mortal Kombat should have a crossover with its Killer Instinct.

Don’t ever think we will ser a full crossover but maybe fulgore and sabrewulf as dlc guests in next MK.

btw, talking about crossovers, if they ever port Tekken 7 and SC6 to Switch, they should add Ganandorf in TK7 and Link (and maybe a FE character like Lucina) in SC6.

Don’t think Nintendo will let them, but would be cool to see Ridley or King K Rool in Mortal Kombat.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Street Fighter should totally crossover with Tekken! That'd work well! Just so long as they don't put a gimmicky stone system into effect that ruins what would otherwise be a fun and solid fighting experience!

nah man they killed itself by keeping the DLC on disc and making the stages massive, the stones could've worked but the game was simply rushed out the door

 

[7NATOR]

I missed some Shadow Discussion, there are some things I need to add

-Since people like to mention how Japan presence is major factor into character's Inclusion, I have to say that the biggest Sonic games were SA1, SA2, Heroes, and Sonic 06

I think Sonic 1 and 2 did overall have the bigger sales, but the 4 other mentioned games resonated with Japanese audiences, which is something Sonic hasn't really done since. SA2 apparently is considered a Top Game by Famitsu readers and such especially. I have to really look into that though, but that's apparently what it is

SA2 is of course Shadow's first, and probably most Iconic appearance. SA2 is also the first game on Nintendo platforms, so this was the Sonic game that introduced Nintendo to Sonic and such.

-Shadow over Eggman and Tails is not something that is implausible. I do think people recognize that Shadow is more popular than Tails and Eggman, but this is honestly more impressive than people might realize

Eggman and Tails are Iconic characters in their own right, have a whole Decade over Shadow, including being in the Golden Age of Sonic (as some would say), Doesn't make as frequent of appearance as these 2, and are not as Associated with an era of Controversial games like Shadow is (with Shadow and 06)

Yet Shadow is still the most popular character after Sonic to this day, in spite of all of this. That is very impressive, and the reason this is achievable is that Shadow as a Character is strong. this is not to say Eggman and Tails are not good characters, but Shadow has resonated with more people overall

Plus Shadow is Head of Sonic's Team (Iizuka) favorite character, Perhaps Sakurai's Favorite character (though that is speculation), and Shadow has his own moves that need to be factored in when considering another character from Sonic.

-On the CGI trailer thing, I will say that unlike Gameplay portions of trailers, which uses the assets already made for the game, all the animations and expressions for the CGI need to be made specifically for the trailer, and I Imagine the 3rd party would need to be on board to clarify if the character is represented in the trailer well

Sakurai does have to contact 3rd parties when it comes to Content in Smash, he even had to do it to allow all music on FD/Battlefield stages. However Working with 3rd parties on CGI would be much more of process, since that is more hands on an not re-using assets already in game like with Gameplay footage and Music selection, So I think there is reason to believe that perhaps this does hint at something Sega related in the future coming

-I know Shadow is an Assist Trophy, and even among people that believe Assists could theoretically be promoted, people don't believe any of the Assist characters have reasons to be promoted to be taken seriously, This is honestly false

--People have to realize that if Shadow was added to the game, he'd be the most recognizable character added to DLC besides Steve. Sonic as a Brand and it's characters are some of the most recognizable in the industry

--Sonic has also been relevant, especially in the years of 2020 and 2021, and Nintendo would have known when finalizing the characters in FP1. The Movie was going to be coming out in 2020, and there is the knowledge that 2021 is Sonic's 30th, and especially since Sega always does something for the anniversaries, that is something to be factored in

--All of FP2 was finalized around November of 2019 or before, including CP11. The idea of an Assist being promoted in the last slot is more slimmer, but that goes for every character since there is one slot left. It doesn't change either way if the first slot was Assist promotion or even earlier slot, because everything was already decided in the beginning

--It's honestly more economical for Assist Promotion than not. Assists already have 3D assets in the game already, and Nintendo already knows the gist when it comes to negotiating for the Assist characters

Pretty much, Nintendo is familiar with the characters that are Assists, and I would say is less expensive to go with something familiar than it is unfamiliar, since there is less time and money that needs to be invested with something you have knowledge of in regards to the game. Nintendo is already well tuned with Sega, Is well tuned with Sonic, and is well tuned with Shadow specifically as well, in terms of the cost of the characters, how to represent them ingame, and such.


-Something regarding Shadow's Hypothetical moveset. Shadow would probably be the first True Snowball Character added to Smash if he was added

A Snowball character is someone/something that gets stronger the better they do in battle, through Mechanics and stuff. In Sonic games, Sonic and the Cast are allowed more opportunities for going Faster/getting upgrades if they do stuff like Get more Rings, Defeating opponents, and such

Shadow specifically follows this when he's been implemented as a Playable character. Chaos Spear and Chaos Control are moves you can use in SA2 Multiplayer if you get more Rings. In Shadow the Hedgehog, you got meter when Damaging or Killing enemies, and Same thing with Sonic Heroes and Sonic 06. Importantly in Sonic 06, unlike Sonic and Silver where their meter refills overtime, Shadow has to actively attack and Kill enemies to refill his Chaos Meter

This would not only be interesting from Gameplay standpoint, but It also would be good balancing in the case of Shadow, since Shadow's Toolset can easily make him overpowered if left unchecked

 

[BlondeLombax]

How would evidence be seen as risqué?

Spoiler

I’d just drone on about the (ever so little) rising amounts of fanservice with each update. I’d go into details, but I don’t want to make a fool of myself.

 

[mynameisBlade]

If there's any fighting game Mortal Kombat should have a crossover with its Killer Instinct.

You read my mind.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Something I think people tend to forget in regards to third party inclusions is that unless they have a special connection to Sakurai (Persona 5 and Smash coming about mainly due to SNK games) or are heavily requested (Bayonetta won the ballot, Banjo was heavily requested even as far back as Melee), they’re from genre defining third party IP’s (Street Fighter, Tekken, Metal Gear, Castlevania, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Minecraft), so synonymous with Nintendo that they have to be there (Sonic, Mega Man) or have transcended third party and are just insanely recognizable even to non-gamers (Pac-Man)

A character like Crash for example doesn’t fit the criteria enough imo, but someone like Doomguy would since he’s kind of the grandfather of FPS’ (if you ignore Wolfenstein). It’s kind of why I’ve been hesitant to throw support behind characters like Rayman and Phoenix Wright. It’d be great to see them, but as far as impactful third parties go they’re basically a drop in the pond, and unlike say Sonic, Mega Man or Banjo, they’re not heavily requested enough to get in on that criteria. I think Crash for example could reach that tier sometime, but I think Ultimate is too late for him.

The easiest choice for a last fighter would’ve been Resident Evil imo, but the spirit event really puts a damper on that

Just some general thoughts regarding third party inclusions

This feels like a very arbitrary set of conditions to apply around third party inclusions when not everything even here super makes sense. Like, Sonic associated with Nintendo may be the case nowadays, but when he joined Brawl he'd just barely been around to have some GBA and Gamecube games post Sega's decision to go third party and there wasn't that same relationship. He was actually in basically the exact same position Crash is currently in when he was added and he was recognized as just an iconic character people wanted back then in the same vein that Crash is now. I'd also point out that special connections to Sakurai don't really make a whole lot of sense as Nintendo still chose them at the end of the day and even if Sakurai suggested them to Nintendo, that does show that they're not going to exclusively only pick the biggest and most prestigious third parties.

I'm a huge Castlevania fan and I wouldn't necessarily say that it absolutely defines the very broad and very inclusive realm of 2D action platformers anymore than any number of other titles and series with notable prestige. It's a fantastic series that many are fond of, but it's not the "end all, be all" most popular 2D action-platformer series either and has some elements that are common of the genre, while also missing some others.

I'm also confused how Crash isn't really that iconic when Crash has been an extremely successful series that defined PS1 platformers and is one of the more recognizable mascots in all of gaming. To the point where I'd say Crash defines 3D platformers better than any other other franchise except Mario at this point. He's already on par with the other third party additions and represents a similar level of clout and recognition. Plus Crash himself is super recognizable in a way others may not be despite being from a big recognizable franchise, as very well evidenced by people's general failure to properly recognize Kazuya and all immediately defaulting to Heihachi if they even recognized the trailer as Tekken (and then a number of the most forced reactions in the world lol).

I don't think third parties are under the requirements you think they are, and even if I agree we're not going to suddenly see like Gex or someone show up and that third parties will lean towards more popular and recognizable inclusions on average, I think there's a great deal of characters that can fit that kind of framework without issue.

 

[Theguy123]

I missed some Shadow Discussion, there are some things I need to add

-Since people like to mention how Japan presence is major factor into character's Inclusion, I have to say that the biggest Sonic games were SA1, SA2, Heroes, and Sonic 06

I think Sonic 1 and 2 did overall have the bigger sales, but the 4 other mentioned games resonated with Japanese audiences, which is something Sonic hasn't really done since. SA2 apparently is considered a Top Game by Famitsu readers and such especially. I have to really look into that though, but that's apparently what it is

SA2 is of course Shadow's first, and probably most Iconic appearance. SA2 is also the first game on Nintendo platforms, so this was the Sonic game that introduced Nintendo to Sonic and such.

-Shadow over Eggman and Tails is not something that is implausible. I do think people recognize that Shadow is more popular than Tails and Eggman, but this is honestly more impressive than people might realize

Eggman and Tails are Iconic characters in their own right, have a whole Decade over Shadow, including being in the Golden Age of Sonic (as some would say), Doesn't make as frequent of appearance as these 2, and are not as Associated with an era of Controversial games like Shadow is (with Shadow and 06)

Yet Shadow is still the most popular character after Sonic to this day, in spite of all of this. That is very impressive, and the reason this is achievable is that Shadow as a Character is strong. this is not to say Eggman and Tails are not good characters, but Shadow has resonated with more people overall

Plus Shadow is Head of Sonic's Team (Iizuka) favorite character, Perhaps Sakurai's Favorite character (though that is speculation), and Shadow has his own moves that need to be factored in when considering another character from Sonic.

-On the CGI trailer thing, I will say that unlike Gameplay portions of trailers, which uses the assets already made for the game, all the animations and expressions for the CGI need to be made specifically for the trailer, and I Imagine the 3rd party would need to be on board to clarify if the character is represented in the trailer well

Sakurai does have to contact 3rd parties when it comes to Content in Smash, he even had to do it to allow all music on FD/Battlefield stages. However Working with 3rd parties on CGI would be much more of process, since that is more hands on an not re-using assets already in game like with Gameplay footage and Music selection, So I think there is reason to believe that perhaps this does hint at something Sega related in the future coming

-I know Shadow is an Assist Trophy, and even among people that believe Assists could theoretically be promoted, people don't believe any of the Assist characters have reasons to be promoted to be taken seriously, This is honestly false

--People have to realize that if Shadow was added to the game, he'd be the most recognizable character added to DLC besides Steve. Sonic as a Brand and it's characters are some of the most recognizable in the industry

--Sonic has also been relevant, especially in the years of 2020 and 2021, and Nintendo would have known when finalizing the characters in FP1. The Movie was going to be coming out in 2020, and there is the knowledge that 2021 is Sonic's 30th, and especially since Sega always does something for the anniversaries, that is something to be factored in

--All of FP2 was finalized around November of 2019 or before, including CP11. The idea of an Assist being promoted in the last slot is more slimmer, but that goes for every character since there is one slot left. It doesn't change either way if the first slot was Assist promotion or even earlier slot, because everything was already decided in the beginning

--It's honestly more economical for Assist Promotion than not. Assists already have 3D assets in the game already, and Nintendo already knows the gist when it comes to negotiating for the Assist characters

Pretty much, Nintendo is familiar with the characters that are Assists, and I would say is less expensive to go with something familiar than it is unfamiliar, since there is less time and money that needs to be invested with something you have knowledge of in regards to the game. Nintendo is already well tuned with Sega, Is well tuned with Sonic, and is well tuned with Shadow specifically as well, in terms of the cost of the characters, how to represent them ingame, and such.


-Something regarding Shadow's Hypothetical moveset. Shadow would probably be the first True Snowball Character added to Smash if he was added

A Snowball character is someone/something that gets stronger the better they do in battle, through Mechanics and stuff. In Sonic games, Sonic and the Cast are allowed more opportunities for going Faster/getting upgrades if they do stuff like Get more Rings, Defeating opponents, and such

Shadow specifically follows this when he's been implemented as a Playable character. Chaos Spear and Chaos Control are moves you can use in SA2 Multiplayer if you get more Rings. In Shadow the Hedgehog, you got meter when Damaging or Killing enemies, and Same thing with Sonic Heroes and Sonic 06. Importantly in Sonic 06, unlike Sonic and Silver where their meter refills overtime, Shadow has to actively attack and Kill enemies to refill his Chaos Meter

This would not only be interesting from Gameplay standpoint, but It also would be good balancing in the case of Shadow, since Shadow's Toolset can easily make him overpowered if left unchecked

To add to what I was saying about the Sephiroth trailer before as well with how it proves Nintendo held discussions with those companies for fighter pass 2, they did the same for the base roaster as well. Mega man was the only third party cgi model in all the base game roaster (appeared in the Very first cgi trailer) trailers which showed Nintendo held negotiations with capcom for base roaster and we ended up getting Ken in the final trailer so this does hold up well and isn’t really something that’s far fetched.

 

[Ivander]

I got a great Vs Capcom idea. Warner Bros Games vs Capcom. That way, we'll get Street Fighter characters fight against Mortal Kombat characters without fatalities or blood.

Would rather have Sega Vs Capcom.

We all know Bugs Bunny would be more meta-breaking than even SSBB Meta-Knight and SSB4 Bayonetta.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

4chan leak

assuming its real we'll get time limited smash spirit for Monkey Ball like they did with the monster hunter stories amiibo

 

[3BitSaurus]

Part of me really wants to share a theory that I made up for who CP11 could possibly be, but I’d probably get in trouble with the mods due to the evidence I provide being too risqué. That’s what I was referring to a few days ago about me going into “tinfoil hat mode.”

I'm in dire need of laughs, and I think more thirst theory could provide me with them.

Also your description legitimately got me curious.

Regarding the whole crossover thing, I know it's not Nintendo's fault, but man, I wish we got some CvS or Street Fighter x Tekken songs. There were some great ones in there. Shame they're not a thing.

 

[PeridotGX]

This is ironic, I had a dream about Shadow in Smash last night. He was really weird, he had 8 arms that could kinda float through each other? Like that scene with Doctor Strange in the Infinity War battle is my best comparison, but it was bizarre

 

[kylexv]

4chan leak

assuming its real we'll get time limited smash spirit for Monkey Ball like they did with the monster hunter stories amiibo

Gotta admit this looks cool....
...if it was real. This is proabably fake, since the amiibo looks more like a high-quality render than an actual figure.

 

[SNEKeater]

4chan leak

assuming its real we'll get time limited smash spirit for Monkey Ball like they did with the monster hunter stories amiibo

Nope, this means AiAi is CP11. With such adorable face, how could anyone be mad at him, even if he's the last character?

 

[AreJay25]

Nope, this means AiAi is CP11. With such adorable face, how could anyone be mad at him, even if he's the last character?

"Who asked for this, it's just Diddy in a Ball"

- Some angry Smash fan after AiAi's reveal

 

[BlondeLombax]

"Who asked for this, it's just Diddy in a Ball"

- Some angry Smash fan after AiAi's reveal

The funny thing is that it’s guaranteed to happen if AiAi is in. People have lost a lot of brain cells this game.

 

[ARandomZoomer]

Decided to stop lurking for a moment to chime in on the Pokemon discussion. While yes the creatures have the bigger focus as you would expect, but the humans themselves do very much influence the gameplay of the mainline games. Heck, the series symbol itself, the Poke ball, is never present in games that lack the humans that use them.
Also, if we want to get into it, the Mario series by comparison has a mishmash of a variety of stuff including like 10 spirits dedicated to karts...

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

This feels like a very arbitrary set of conditions to apply around third party inclusions when not everything even here super makes sense. Like, Sonic associated with Nintendo may be the case nowadays, but when he joined Brawl he'd just barely been around to have some GBA and Gamecube games post Sega's decision to go third party and there wasn't that same relationship. He was actually in basically the exact same position Crash is currently in when he was added and he was recognized as just an iconic character people wanted back then in the same vein that Crash is now. I'd also point out that special connections to Sakurai don't really make a whole lot of sense as Nintendo still chose them at the end of the day and even if Sakurai suggested them to Nintendo, that does show that they're not going to exclusively only pick the biggest and most prestigious third parties.

I'm a huge Castlevania fan and I wouldn't necessarily say that it absolutely defines the very broad and very inclusive realm of 2D action platformers anymore than any number of other titles and series with notable prestige. It's a fantastic series that many are fond of, but it's not the "end all, be all" most popular 2D action-platformer series either and has some elements that are common of the genre, while also missing some others.

I'm also confused how Crash isn't really that iconic when Crash has been an extremely successful series that defined PS1 platformers and is one of the more recognizable mascots in all of gaming. To the point where I'd say Crash defines 3D platformers better than any other other franchise except Mario at this point. He's already on par with the other third party additions and represents a similar level of clout and recognition. Plus Crash himself is super recognizable in a way others may not be despite being from a big recognizable franchise, as very well evidenced by people's general failure to properly recognize Kazuya and all immediately defaulting to Heihachi if they even recognized the trailer as Tekken (and then a number of the most forced reactions in the world lol).

I don't think third parties are under the requirements you think they are, and even if I agree we're not going to suddenly see like Gex or someone show up and that third parties will lean towards more popular and recognizable inclusions on average, I think there's a great deal of characters that can fit that kind of framework without issue.

I can't remember who said it but I remember seeing a good comparison to potential Smash candidates being like a totem pole, where the lower the go, the more obscure and less """"""""""""deserving"""""""""""" (hate using that term but it applies here) the characters are.

Let's look at Dixie Kong for example. She's seen by many as a glaring omission from Nintendo's first party catalog when it wasn't always like that. She had support during the Brawl and Smash 4 days, but nowhere near to the extent of her support nowadays, mainly because King K. Rool took the title as most wanted Donkey Kong character. As time goes on, while Dixie Kong is in reality near the middle of the totem pole, she looks like she's closer to the top. Because the actual top is already in. But at the same time, it also casts light on characters higher up on that totem pole who have yet to be added, like Crash Bandicoot.

 

[subterrestrial]

surely dixie is gonna make it in this time

right...?

 

[SharkLord]

Y'know, I've seen some people say that we can't get ATs promoted because if it were possible it would've happened earlier... But I also remember the same argument being used to shoot down a Bandai-Namco rep, up until we got Kazuya. I can't really say if it was the same people who originally used that bit of reasoning, but I can't help but draw some parallels there.

But yeah, I think "It hasn't happened yet and so it won't happen" is an incredibly flimsy piece of evidence that only serves to ignore the possibility of any patterns being broken. Yeah, we may have predicted some of them, but the DLC has had many first instances of something and I feel like we shouldn't overlook any possibilities just because "It hasn't happened yet."

 

[Peripuff]

then we got a sonic anniversary spirit event and they went out their way to include every sonic spirit that’s in the game and can be obtained through the spirit board apart from shadow for some reason. Just think an assist trophy upgrade could be something to keep an eye on.

I will say, I recently checked other spirit events, and to my knowledge Shadow has never been used in one of them, it’s a similar scenario to Tails. There is likely some other factor for his exclusion from this spirit event that we are missing.