Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[RileyXY1]

It'll be Kazuya's tourney.

Unless the 2010s tourney was his tourney.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Unless the 2010s tourney was his tourney.

That's not the case, Kazuya is a 1990s character, he wasn't in the tourney.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Did you know there are currently no Pokémon Trainer spirits besides the actual fighter spirits?

There is currently an entire mobile game dedicated to how much people love Trainers. Adding a new Pokémon Spirit Board seems like a great opportunity to change that. Seems really weird that we don't even have Oak.

Could be Trainers from Legends Arceus or perhaps even go for the broader franchise. Seems like it would be relatively simple to just pick the Fighters who would fit well with those Trainers' teams's themes.

The thing about this though is how do you go about making a pokemon trainer spirit battle with such few choices and not every Pokemon represented? To me it'd seem kind of redundant. The only way I'd see them working is if they don't have spirit battles which is possible for them to not have as you have some spirits like the Mushroom that don't have one.

Besides that, the main point of focus for the pokemon franchise is the Pokemon themselves so it makes sense why there aren't any other Pokemon Trainers besides the fighter spirits. That's one of the reasons why Pikachu was picked first over a Pokemon Trainer. The trainers aren't as important as they aren't required to make a Pokemon game happen.

 

[SneakyLink]

Unless the 2010s tourney was his tourney.

It wasn’t. He’s not a selectable character in it.
Neither is Hero despite him not being present in any of the previous decade tournies due to the default being Luminary.

 

[Geno Boost]

One of the best mods that I have seen during smash 4 is the Black Mage over Robin I am hoping someone will bring it to smash ultimate at some point.

Black Mage Enchants The Battle [Super Smash Bros. (Wii U)] [Mods]

A Super Smash Bros. (Wii U) (SSB4U) Mod in the Robin category, submitted by Epicwazy

gamebanana.com

 

[Technomage]

On the topic of Legends Arceus: Since it's a prequel that takes place in ancient times, what if we were to see what Fossil Pokemon were like before the reverse-fossilization process?

 

[DarthEnderX]

I want a post-apocalyptic Pokemon set after all the humans are dead.

I wanna play a Pokemon that enslaves other Pokemon.

 

[Technomage]

They do a post-apocalyptic Pokemon set after all the humans are dead.

I wanna play a Pokemon that enslaves other Pokemon.

Well, we do have Oranguru, which can figure out how to use Pokeballs:

Oranguru (Pokémon) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Skylanders, out of nowhere; Crash and Spyro will be on the board.

I would be incredibly happy if the last fighter was Crash and Spyro as swappable fighters to reference those GBA games

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

I would be incredibly happy if the last fighter was Crash and Spyro as swappable fighters to reference those GBA games

Or the McDonalds handheld series of 8 games, 4 Crash titles and 4 Spyro titles. Truly the peak of gaming hardware

 

[Twilord]

The thing about this though is how do you go about making a pokemon trainer spirit battle with such few choices and not every Pokemon represented? To me it'd seem kind of redundant. The only way I'd see them working is if they don't have spirit battles which is possible for them to not have as you have some spirits like the Mushroom that don't have one.

There is an entire mobile game dedicated to how much people love the different NPC Trainers. Also, you know that Smash characters are used as stand-ins in spirit battles right? So we'd have Fighters who fit the Trainer's Team's Theme for each Trainer.

FOR EXAMPLE:

Will? Zelda, Shulk, Ness, Lucas, Palutena, et cetera (pick three)

Bruno? Ryu, Ken, Little Mac, Mii Brawler, Donkey Kong, et cetera (pick three)

Karen? Bayonetta, Dark Samus, Dark Pit, Ganondorf, et cetera (pick three)

Lance? Ridley, Bowser, Yoshi, K.Rool, et cetera (pick three)

Professor Oak? Corrin, Olimar, Captain Falcon (the iconic type trinity)

Besides that, the main point of focus for the pokemon franchise is the Pokemon themselves so it makes sense why there aren't any other Pokemon Trainers besides the fighter spirits. That's one of the reasons why Pikachu was picked first over a Pokemon Trainer. The trainers aren't as important as they aren't required to make a Pokemon game happen.

That is valid... until you account for the fact they've been totally neglected when they're actually popular enough to support a mobile game which is themed around people's favourite Trainers. Then it becomes kind of ridiculous. Putting Pokémon first is one thing, completely ignoring Trainers is another matter.

 

[Theguy123]

What are the chances we could get our first and only upgraded assist trophy here. Would shock everyone and would be something no one expects. We know assists don’t deconfirm because they put Spring man in the arms announcement trailer and then put him In the official reveal trailer so what are the chances sakurai upgrades a random assist trophy in this pass.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

What are the chances we could get our first and only upgraded assist trophy here. Would shock everyone and would be something no one expects. We know assists don’t deconfirm because they put Spring man in the arms announcement trailer and then put him In the official reveal trailer so what are the chances sakurai upgrades a random assist trophy in this pass.

That actually sounds really interesting! Personally, if that were to happen, I'd pick Shovel Knight as a mix of "big pick" and "personal pick." Some of my other personal picks are Sukapon, Zero and Bomberman... though I know the internet would go insane if a certain lanky man in purple broke free.

 

[Ivander]

Bruce? Ryu, Ken, Little Mac, Mii Brawler, Donkey Kong, et cetera (pick three)

Karen? Bayonetta, Dark Samus, Dark Pit, Ganondorf, et cetera (pick three)

uses characters with dark powers or are villainous for the Dark-type trainer and brawler characters for the Fighting-type trainer
doesn't use Incineroar or Lucario, the actual Dark-type and Fighting-type respectively, for the Dark-type trainer and Fighting-type trainer

I also don't see why Professor Oak wouldn't just use Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard, when they are the first Starter Pokemon in the series and the ones he gives you.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The trainers aren't as important as they aren't required to make a Pokemon game happen.

I'm sorry what? They're the main protagonists, antagonists, and everything in between in nearly every main Pokémon game (and the one time they weren't the villain so far it was because they retconned Lusamine and shoe-horned in Necrozma).

Not every Pokémon game needs the trainers to work, but they're so prevalent within the series that calling them unimportant is a blatant lie.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

That is valid... until you account for the fact they've been totally neglected when they're actually popular enough to support a mobile game which is themed around people's favourite Trainers. Then it becomes kind of ridiculous. Putting Pokémon first is one thing, completely ignoring Trainers is another matter.

I'm sorry what? They're the main protagonists, antagonists, and everything in between in nearly every main Pokémon game (and the one time they weren't the villain so far it was because they retconned Lusamine and shoe-horned in Necrozma).

Not every Pokémon game needs the trainers to work, but they're so prevalent within the series that calling them unimportant is a blatant lie.

You can make a Pokemon game without trainers but you can't make a Pokemon game without Pokemon. Pokemon Masters has Pokemon in the game and you still command Pokemon to do things so no Pokemon are not neglected.

calling them unimportant is a blatant lie.

No one said that.

 

[RileyXY1]

You can make a Pokemon game without trainers but you can't make a Pokemon game without Pokemon. Pokemon Masters has Pokemon in the game and you still command Pokemon to do things so no Pokemon are not neglected.

Yeah. There are Pokemon games without human characters at all (most notably the Mystery Dungeon games). The Pokemon themselves are the core identity of the series.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

What do you guys think are the odds a spirit (not an assist trophy) gets upgraded to a playable fighter? (First or third party)

 

[Inferno7]

What are the chances we could get our first and only upgraded assist trophy here. Would shock everyone and would be something no one expects. We know assists don’t deconfirm because they put Spring man in the arms announcement trailer and then put him In the official reveal trailer so what are the chances sakurai upgrades a random assist trophy in this pass.

In my opinion? The only ones with an actual chance as of now would be Waluigi, Shadow and Alucard. Not confident on Shovel Knight because he's an indie (inb4 Steve I know). All of this considering the fanrule isn't legit in the first place, as it may very well be.
Which ones would I promote if I was in charge? Shadow hands down, followed closely by Zero (seriously, this dude is tailor made for this game yet they dissed him). They would just be so cool to play as and watch, really smh at Sakurai and co.'s decisions when I think about these two, especially when you consider several other franchises had a 2nd fighter already.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

What do you guys think are the odds a spirit (not an assist trophy) gets upgraded to a playable fighter? (First or third party)

We've already had 3, so it's very possible for another one.

 

[RileyXY1]

What do you guys think are the odds a spirit (not an assist trophy) gets upgraded to a playable fighter? (First or third party)

We already got 3 of em.

 

[Technomage]

What do you guys think are the odds a spirit (not an assist trophy) gets upgraded to a playable fighter? (First or third party)

If it's base game spirits or spirits that were added before FP2's announcement, then I think there's still a chance of them being promoted.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm sorry what? They're the main protagonists, antagonists, and everything in between in nearly every main Pokémon game (and the one time they weren't the villain so far it was because they retconned Lusamine and shoe-horned in Necrozma).

Not every Pokémon game needs the trainers to work, but they're so prevalent within the series that calling them unimportant is a blatant lie.

They didn't say they aren't important at all. They said they aren't as important as the Pokemon. Different thing.

And it's true. The Pokemon are the big thing. That's often the case with Monster Collection series.

 

[DittoInDisguise]

What are the chances we could get our first and only upgraded assist trophy here. Would shock everyone and would be something no one expects. We know assists don’t deconfirm because they put Spring man in the arms announcement trailer and then put him In the official reveal trailer so what are the chances sakurai upgrades a random assist trophy in this pass.

I think the possibility is there (to me, now seems the best time to do it) and it makes some sense to put the AT promo at the end, especially if it is 1st party. The main problem is the waluigi is probably the only AT to be promoted ( I really don't see anyone else happening, especially a third party) and i'm not sure if nintendo would want to attempt to profit of his demand or just go for someone who isn't an AT and have both waluigi AT plus whoever the other fighter.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that Spirit Events still deconfirm, due to the fact that had that series/game got a character they would not have even done a Spirit Event in the first place and instead they would have bundled the Spirits with the fighter as part of their Spirit Board. This can be seen by there being no Fire Emblem: Three Houses Spirit Event.

 

[Inferno7]

What do you guys think are the odds a spirit (not an assist trophy) gets upgraded to a playable fighter? (First or third party)

I honestly don't know but I'm leaning towards no. I think it will be a new franchise altogether.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You can make a Pokemon game without trainers but you can't make a Pokemon game without Pokemon. Pokemon Masters has Pokemon in the game and you still command Pokemon to do things so no Pokemon are not neglected.

This response is not a proper rebuttal to mine. I never claimed that the Pokémon were neglected in Pokémon Masters.

You can make a Pokemon game without trainers but you can't make a Pokemon game without Pokemon.

Yeah. There are Pokemon games without human characters at all (most notably the Mystery Dungeon games).

Ganon does not appear in any form in The Legend of Zelda: Minish Cap, The Legend of Zelda: Tri-Force Heroes, Link's Crossbow Training, or The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. Does that mean he's not important to the series? No. Because that's not a valid argument.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ganon does not appear in any form in The Legend of Zelda: Minish Cap, The Legend of Zelda: Tri-Force Heroes, Link's Crossbow Training, or The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. Does that mean he's not important to the series? No. Because that's not a valid argument.

That's great, but not the argument they're making. The Pokemon are more important than the trainers are. They didn't say the trainers were not important.

Please read it again, cause you're arguing against something they aren't saying.

 

[RileyXY1]

I honestly don't know but I'm leaning towards no. I think it will be a new franchise altogether.

Yeah, and possibly a new company too.

 

[Theguy123]

I think the possibility is there (to me, now seems the best time to do it) and it makes some sense to put the AT promo at the end, especially if it is 1st party. The main problem is the waluigi is probably the only AT to be promoted ( I really don't see anyone else happening, especially a third party) and i'm not sure if nintendo would want to attempt to profit of his demand or just go for someone who isn't an AT and have both waluigi AT plus whoever the other fighter.

I don’t know what first party’s could be upgraded but I could see a third party like shadow being upgraded if sega specifically wanted another sonic rep. The reason I brought it up was mainly because from the Sephiroth trailer we know sega held negotiations for FP2 but we don’t know what came out of them and they have had no content in FP2 yet whereas everyone from pass 1 has had extra content in pass 2 (apart from snk who were swapped for Namco as our fighting rep).

then we got a sonic anniversary spirit event and they went out their way to include every sonic spirit that’s in the game and can be obtained through the spirit board apart from shadow for some reason. Just think an assist trophy upgrade could be something to keep an eye on.

 

[SharkLord]

What are the chances we could get our first and only upgraded assist trophy here. Would shock everyone and would be something no one expects. We know assists don’t deconfirm because they put Spring man in the arms announcement trailer and then put him In the official reveal trailer so what are the chances sakurai upgrades a random assist trophy in this pass.

I think it could happen; The only problem is that there aren't many ATs in a good spot to be promoted. There's Waluigi, but I feel like they're emphasizing the entire pass and not just the fighter and Waluigi is a bit lacking in supplementary content. There's Isaac, but Golden Sun has been dormant for a while and he'd need to rely on popularity a la Banjo. I think the safest best is Shovel Knight, being the cameo king and emblematic of the recent indie boom.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Ganon does not appear in any form in The Legend of Zelda: Minish Cap, The Legend of Zelda: Tri-Force Heroes, Link's Crossbow Training, or The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. Does that mean he's not important to the series? No. Because that's not a valid argument.

Alright so if you had a Pokemon game that had no Pokemon in sight and only the trainers, what would they do? Better question, would you consider that a Pokemon game? They're called Pokemon Trainers for a reason.

 

[DittoInDisguise]

I don’t know what first party’s could be upgraded but I could see a third party like shadow being upgraded if sega specifically wanted another sonic rep. The reason I brought it up was mainly because from the Sephiroth trailer we know sega held negotiations for FP2 but we don’t know what came out of them and they have had no content in FP2 yet whereas everyone from pass 1 has had extra content in pass 2 (apart from snk who were swapped for Namco as our fighting rep).

then we got a sonic anniversary spirit event and they went out their way to include every sonic spirit that’s in the game and can be obtained through the spirit board apart from shadow for some reason. Just think an assist trophy upgrade could be something to keep an eye on.

The main problem with this idea is that they could just get Eggman/tails as the fighter. Then they could have Sonic, Eggman/Tails, and Shadow all repped in some fashion (and I mean, on the battlefield repped). There is no reason for nintendo to choose shadow over any other big sonic character.

Not saying Shadow can't happen, but nintendo would have to really want him over other sonic reps.

 

[Twilord]

uses characters with dark powers or are villainous for the Dark-type trainer and brawler characters for the Fighting-type trainer
doesn't use Incineroar or Lucario, the actual Dark-type and Fighting-type respectively, for the Dark-type trainer and Fighting-type trainer

I also don't see why Professor Oak wouldn't just use Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard, when they are the first Starter Pokemon in the series and the ones he gives you.

Honestly? Because I wanted to make the point without using the obvious solutions.

You can make a Pokemon game without trainers but you can't make a Pokemon game without Pokemon. Pokemon Masters has Pokemon in the game and you still command Pokemon to do things so no Pokemon are not neglected.

I'm not saying Trainers are equally important (I mean narratively they are, but I'm trying to be nice) but right now, if you're arguing that it would be ridiculous to have a Trainer themed Spirit Board, what you're arguing is that it is absurd to have eight Trainers spirits when they could be adding eight more Pokémon to the one-hundred-and-forty-nine Pokémon Spirits.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

I'm not saying Trainers are equally important (I mean narratively they are, but I'm trying to be nice) but right now, if you're arguing that it would be ridiculous to have a Trainer themed Spirit Board, what you're arguing is that it is absurd to have eight Trainers spirits when they could be adding eight more Pokémon to the one-hundred-and-forty-nine Pokémon Spirits.

That's actually a pretty good point.

 

[Theguy123]

The main problem with this idea is that they could just get Eggman/tails as the fighter. Then they could have Sonic, Eggman/Tails, and Shadow all repped in some fashion (and I mean, on the battlefield repped). There is no reason for nintendo to choose shadow over any other big sonic character.

Not saying Shadow can't happen, but nintendo would have to really want him over other sonic reps.

I’d be fine with other sonic reps but I could potentially see sega themselves pushing for shadow because they portray him in the comics these days as an edgy rival which kinda suits smash bros. Iizuka also has a massive bias for shadow himself which would probably play a massive role in decision making as it did with min min.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That's great, but not the argument they're making. The Pokemon are more important than the trainers are. They didn't say the trainers were not important.

Please read it again, cause you're arguing against something they aren't saying.

Alright, sorry. I did misread the first statement.

I was probably thrown off by the fact that he called Spirits of trainers redundant, which I also disagree with.

Alright so if you had a Pokemon game that had no Pokemon and only the trainers, what would they do? Better question, would you consider that a Pokemon game? They're called Pokemon Trainers for a reason.

And now you are arguing the point I originally thought you were.

And I will concede that Pokémon without Pokémon isn't Pokémon. However, that doesn't erase the presence of the trainers in droves, and the large roles they play in most of the narratives. They aren't completely irrelevant to Pokémon's identity either. Part of the appeal of the main game was (and still is) the idea that you can be a Pokémon Trainer and explore this fantasy world. You can raise up a whole team of them and become the best trainer there is. None of that actually works without the trainers.

EDIT: There's a reason why a ton of Pokémon's narratives are about the bond between Pokémon and trainer.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I'm not saying Trainers are equally important (I mean narratively they are, but I'm trying to be nice) but right now, if you're arguing that it would be ridiculous to have a Trainer themed Spirit Board, what you're arguing is that it is absurd to have eight Trainers spirits when they could be adding eight more Pokémon to the one-hundred-and-forty-nine Pokémon Spirits.

I wasn't arguing about the spirit board for that point, your spirit board idea for the trainers does give me a decent idea on how you can work it out. I was just arguing because I thought you said that Pokemon were neglected in Pokemon Masters but if that wasn't your point then never mind,

 

[FreeFox]

Pokemon talk? I wish to add that Decidueye falls in the group of characters that didnt end up making the cut (since many of the second pass seem to be second chance characters) and Pokemon Arceus might be its last chance to get in with relevance being a factor.

 

[DittoInDisguise]

I’d be fine with other sonic reps but I could potentially see sega themselves pushing for shadow because they portray him in the comics these days as an edgy rival which kinda suits smash bros. Iizuka also has a massive bias for shadow himself which would probably play a massive role in decision making as it did with min min.

Eh, nintendo/Sakurai seems to have wanted ARMS in general rather than any specific character, which means there was free reign to pick the fighter. If Nintendo is going to be sharing sales of a fighter with Sega, I feel like they would go for someone who is either not represented or only a spirit and just let the Shadow AT keep representing him.