Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Momotsuki]

Spoiler: Two chunky screenshots

Finished my Kazuya skin... but figured that somebody else should learn this character with me. If his CPU is any indication, this'll be fun~!
I'm just using an emulated Ryu amiibo and a simple mod to tell the game that he's a Kazuya amiibo.

 

[Ivander]

Music that would make me go haywire in a reveal trailer? Most of my wanted characters would probably be revealed before their music plays, aside from two.

Spoiler: First one

Spoiler: Second one.

This is if Wander is revealed without a Colossus boss. If there is a Colossus boss, like Valus, the reveal wouldn't be with music, but with the sound of giant footsteps.

Edit: Actually, there is a 3rd one.

Spoiler: Third one.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Ah, that reminds me: If a LoL char ends up being the last DLC, then Terry won't be alone anymore (since SNK is owned by Tencent). So, that makes me a bit more supportive of Ahri as a Smasher. :D

Tbh, even as one of the "LoL people" on the thread, I don't see a LoL rep being CP11. First, it's a western IP, and one that doesn't do that well in Japan compared to the rest of the world, which would be a strange note to end on given past precedent.

Secondly, that first point makes me think that E3 would have been the perfect place for a reveal, as you get the eyes of most western fans there.

Finally, it would be one of the biggest third party IPs in Volume 2, and even one of the biggest that Ultimate got in general. Which, again, is extremely weird to be saved for a last reveal, given past precedent.

But hey, glad to have another person on board, I suppose.

 

[Gengar84]

Here’s a few more songs I would totally be hyped to hear in a Smash reveal trailer:

Spoiler

StarCraft - Terran Theme 1

StarCraft Music - Terran Theme 1 (Playing at 1080P is recommended due to file compression)

m.youtube.com

Dynasty Warriors 3 Theme of Lu Bu - DW Terrible Mix

Lu Bu's theme music from Dynasty Warriors 3 (aka Shin Sangokumusou 2). This is one of my personal favorites.Credit to KOEI & KOEI Warriors. I do not own any ...

m.youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

Contra Music (NES) - Jungle Theme [Stage 1]

Track 3 / 12 (Complete Soundtrack)System: Famicom / Nintendo Entertainment SystemAlternate Title: Probotector (EU)Developer / Publisher: KonamiComposer: H. M...

m.youtube.com

 

[Opossum]

I don't think you don't get me.
I didn't say K. Rool and Ridley stole slots. Just that, if you consider that Min Min, Isabelle, Pyra and Mythra and other characters are "stealing" slots from classic characters (when they're not, btw), then the same goes for Ridley or K. Rool, no matter how much requested they were or the legacy they have. And I wanted both, to clarify.
If you operate with the logic of "if character 1 gets in, that means a slot less and therefore, less chances, for character 2 to get in" then there are no exceptions. With that logic Ridley is "taking" a slot in the roster as much as Min Min does.

This isn't a old fans vs newer fans thing. You can like both sides of the coin. And a Smash game with only old characters would be just boring, no matter how classic or iconic they are.

And the whole deserving thing is just kinda stupid IMO. Because it's not really an objective thing. What is the criteria behind it? Sales? Popularity? Because if it's the first thing, then Pyra/Mythra or Byleth are more "deserving" of being in Smash than Isaac, and if we talk about popularity Isabelle or Incineroar kinda destroy most of the classic fan requests, if not all of them.

Preach.

The attitude of "new bad, old good" is super dumb, and it's shocking that it's still around as much as it is. Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra/Mythra have just as much of a "right" to be in Smash as the likes of Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo. A main lord of the most popular entry in a major Nintendo franchise, a fan favorite character from a successful new IP, and a second character for a quickly growing first party franchise. Like, how are those not "worthy" additions? Because they didn't exist before Brawl's release? That was over thirteen years ago. There can now legally be people on this site who weren't even born when Brawl released. "They've been requested since Brawl" isn't the trump card some people think it is.

Having three characters who debuted on the Switch is a good thing, because Nintendo's recent history is still Nintendo's history. And coming from me, someone who wants Nintendo characters old (Muddy, Takamaru), new (Edelgard, Henry Fleming), and evergreen (Waluigi lol), such a divide shouldn't exist.

 

[Gengar84]

Preach.

The attitude of "new bad, old good" is super dumb, and it's shocking that it's still around as much as it is. Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra/Mythra have just as much of a "right" to be in Smash as the likes of Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo. A main lord of the most popular entry in a major Nintendo franchise, a fan favorite character from a successful new IP, and a second character for a quickly growing first party franchise. Like, how are those not "worthy" additions? Because they didn't exist before Brawl's release? That was over thirteen years ago. There can now legally be people on this site who weren't even born when Brawl released. "They've been requested since Brawl" isn't the trump card some people think it is.

Having three characters who debuted on the Switch is a good thing, because Nintendo's recent history is still Nintendo's history. And coming from me, someone who wants Nintendo characters old (Muddy, Takamaru), new (Edelgard, Henry Fleming), and evergreen (Waluigi lol), such a divide shouldn't exist.

Yeah, I think it’s best to have a mix of both old and new characters. The majority of my personal favorites are older but I have no issues with newer games getting a spot as well. Joker is one of my favorite newcomers to Ultimate and his game was pretty recent.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Most of my favorite newcomers added in Ultimate thus far have been some of the fresher faces.

Heck, Litterally all the 3(4?) Switch era characters we got are in my current rotation

 

[XorahnGaia]

• Nintendo is partnered with Tencent, which owns Riot. This partnership so far has resulted in the Switch being sold in China, as well as the development of Pokémon Unite.
• Speaking of, Unite shows that Nintendo is at the very least aware of thepopularity of MOBAs, especially in markets that they're trying to expand to.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is Nintendo even involved with Unite? I always had the idea that it was more of a TPC thing considering that it was announced in a Pokémon Presents and that it's not exclusive to Switch.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

There can now legally be people on this site who weren't even born when Brawl released.

bottom text

 

[3BitSaurus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is Nintendo even involved with Unite? I always had the idea that it was more of a TPC thing considering that it was announced in a Pokémon Presents and that it's not exclusive to Switch.

They are. TPC might do its own thing, but they still have Nintendo as part of its joint venture, and Nintendo is still the publisher for the Switch version.

And considering both this and the Tencent partnership with Nintendo for the Chinese Switch came around the same time, I don't think it's farfetched to say both are loosely related.

 

[RoboFist]

The second Fighter Pass hasn't introduced a character from a new company so far, so I decided to make this.

View attachment 321373

It's a bummer because I genuinely feel like some of these characters would make great additions to Smash, but a majority of them would flop hard as the FINAL character.

Characters like Arle, Robotnik, Phoenix, and Chun-Li have definitely earned their place on the roster (in the case of Robotnik and Chun-Li, the roster feels weirdly incomplete without them). Then there are characters like Amaterasu, Frogger, and Ayumi which could've been such fun surprise picks with unique movesets, but again, they would only cause backlash if they were announced as FP11.

Again, I've loved DLC speculation, but looking at some of these characters makes me miss the crazy days of base roster speculation, when a lot of these characters would've been safer picks.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

The madlad did it…

 

[mynameisBlade]

I don't think you don't get me.
I didn't say K. Rool and Ridley stole slots. Just that, if you considerar that Min Min, Isabelle, Pyra and Mythra and other characters are "stealing" slots from classic characters (when they're not, btw), then the same goes for Ridley or K. Rool, no matter how much requested they were or the legacy they have. And I wanted both, to clarify.
If you operate with the logic of "if character 1 gets in, that means a slot less and therefore, less chances, for character 2 to get in" then there are no exceptions. With that logic Ridley is "taking" a slot in the roster as much as Min Min does.

This isn't a old fans vs newer fans thing. You can like both sides of the coin. And a Smash game with only old characters would be just boring, no matter how classic or iconic they are.

And the whole deserving thing is just kinda stupid IMO. Because it's not really an objective thing. What is the criteria behind it? Sales? Popularity? Because if it's the first thing, then Pyra/Mythra or Byleth are more "deserving" of being in Smash than Isaac, and if we talk about popularity Isabelle or Incineroar kinda destroy most of the classic fan requests, if not all of them.



Yeah. I wasn't confident in getting a BotW character but after E3, I think it's out of the run.

You already said it but the trailer they had, while cool, was brief and didn't show that much, or at least nothing that could mean something for Smash.
They're not gonna add BotW Link but again even if he has a new arm thingy. We didn't see new character with seemingly big roles. And it's very unlikely we will learn more about the game this year. I doubt it's going to be in the September Direct. Maybe at the Game Awards, but at that point we will be playing with CP11...

SMT V at least feels kinda realizable. The game has been already being developed close to Nintendo due to it's exclusive nature and all the Nintendo marketing behind. And as far as we know DLC fighters take around 6 months. So even if Atlus and Sakurai didn't keep contact that much, I'm pretty sure Atlus already has everything about Nahobino decided when we got the SMT V teaser in August of last year.

First of all, the whole "stealing slots" came from you. Unless I specifically say "They stole slots" I don't mean exactly that. Blowing it out of context. Summary of what I originally said so I don't have to debate this with you anymore: Older Nintendo characters like Dixie, Waluigi, Isaac, Skull Kid, etc.. are just more deserving in my eyes than these newer not as popular characters. (when new characters are shown off... obviously they have to build popularity from peoples experience playing the game so the love isn't there yet, because they are brand new...that's the gist)

It'd be much different for any of you if the people you surround yourself with feel the same way about these things that you do, which makes the feeling stronger. I as well as most of the people I know just prefer the older characters we remember growing up with getting in rather than newer characters. It's not to say we hate the newer characters, but it's more of a bummer than anything is all. Plain and simple. That's the great thing about opinions. We can all have them and nobody can really do anything about it.

K. Rool and Ridley have technically been in since 64 through the DK and Metroid franchises, so they are immune to any/all obstacles IMO. A Smash game with older faces in it might be BORING to you and a game with newer faces (what we currently have) might be BORING to me. People are different. No middle ground for folks like us. Trust me. I just choose to look at Smash as a UNION type of thing. Where the longer you have been around, you should always get to the top before anyone else. That is my personal choice and I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[Gengar84]

The madlad did it…

Angry Birds was basically already in Smash if you look at Smash 4’s Break the Targets.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Angry Birds was basically already in Smash if you look at Smash 4’s Break the Targets.

Yes… it’s all coming together…
Bro if they get ANY representation I’m popping off

 

[Gengar84]

Yes… it’s all coming together…
Bro if they get ANY representation I’m popping off

They seem like perfect candidates for Mii hats. I think that would be pretty cool honestly.

 

[Idon]

Summary of what I originally said so I don't have to debate this with you anymore: Older Nintendo characters like Dixie, Waluigi, Isaac, Skull Kid, etc.. are just more deserving in my eyes than these newer not as popular characters. Period.

Gonna feel real sorry for you if this'll be your mentality going forward and there becomes less and less reason to pick those characters, especially business-wise.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Ok but if Phoenix happens and he doesn’t come with this I’ll be sad

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

 

[Gengar84]

Gonna feel real sorry for you if this'll be your mentality going forward and there becomes less and less reason to pick those characters, especially business-wise.

As a general rule, I can’t say I completely disagree with him honestly. I would personally be more hyped for more characters from the SNES or NES era as well as others from the 90’s. Still, I think it is important to represent characters from every era of gaming. There are tons of great characters, both new and old, to choose from that it makes no sense to limit selections to just one or the other.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Gonna feel real sorry for you if this'll be your mentality going forward and there becomes less and less reason to pick those characters, especially business-wise.

I agree that blindly assuming characters are more "deserving" just because their older is a mentality that probably won't work out in the long run (I absolutely think that all of the Switch era characters we've gotten so far deserve to be in the game), but at the same time, assuming that older characters are automatically going to have "less and less reason to be picked" over time is also in essence, an absolute. Sure some older characters might have that mentality apply to them, but there are also several older characters that will always be around and maintain evergreen status.

I agree with Gengar84 that there is value in choosing characters from all eras.

 

[Metal Shop X]

So a Kazuya lvl9 CPU just won a game at a local.

Told ya he was a great player, hope to see him in bracket one day.

 

[Freduardo]

Final Character is a fourth mii archetype. Unfortunately it's Mii-Spitter. Who just spits on people. And it's kind of gross.

The Boogerman mii costume it comes with was a decent shout though.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Isn't "Only a Sith deal in absolutes" a absolute tho.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Gonna feel real sorry for you if this'll be your mentality going forward and there becomes less and less reason to pick those characters, especially business-wise.

Trust me. I feel sorry for myself somewhat, because even if many people secretly agree with me, this type of statement is a lot harder to say due to the worry of being hated. I don't really care about that part though. Overall, I keep my mentality for Smash intact because it makes the little things like custom rosters I make for the hell of it or modding over whoever I'd rather not be in a juicier experience for my own personal tastes.

Just so everyone knows I am not hoping to accomplish anything with the mind set I have. My opinion is the immovable object that gets hit by reality being the unstoppable force. An unpopular opinion to be sure but I stand by it.

 

[Cosmic77]

Aside from all of this being completely opinionated, "old" and "new" aren't enough to determine whether or not a character is more deserving than another. A character existing for 20 years longer doesn't automatically make them superior.

Case in point, is anyone willing to deny that Inkling and Isabelle have become such notable icons for Nintendo that it'd almost feel odd if they were excluded? Should they be swapped for popular fan requests like Issac or Geno in the next game because both Inkling and Isabelle are less than 20 years old?

 

[SharkLord]

Isn't "Only a Sith deal in absolutes" a absolute tho.

And that's why it's a meme

Well, that and the fact that everything RotS is inherently memeable by it's nature anyways

 

[Metal Shop X]

And that's why it's a meme

Well, that and the fact that everything RotS is inherently memeable by it's nature anyways

Oh yeah, I know how memetic RotS, General Sharkobi

And i'm all for it.

 

[Gengar84]

Aside from all of this being completely opinionated, "old" and "new" aren't enough to determine whether or not a character is more deserving than another. A character existing for 20 years longer doesn't automatically make them superior.

Case in point, is anyone willing to deny that Inkling and Isabelle have become such notable icons for Nintendo that it'd almost feel odd if they were excluded? Should they be swapped for popular fan requests like Issac or Geno in the next game because both Inkling and Isabelle are less than 20 years old?

Yeah, you make a good point. Inkling and Isabelle are very deserving to be in Smash and I wouldn’t replace them with Geno.

Spoiler

Battletoads, Magus, and Bill Rizer are a completely different story though .

 

[Technomage]

Aside from all of this being completely opinionated, "old" and "new" aren't enough to determine whether or not a character is more deserving than another. A character existing for 20 years longer doesn't automatically make them superior.

Case in point, is anyone willing to deny that Inkling and Isabelle have become such notable icons for Nintendo that it'd almost feel odd if they were excluded? Should they be swapped for popular fan requests like Issac or Geno in the next game because both Inkling and Isabelle are less than 20 years old?

There's also this that we can use to debunk that "too many newbies" argument:

Old characters (20 years and older):


New characters (less than 20 years):


Not actually all that many "new" characters.

Note: Olimar is technically less than 20 right now, but just barely. Also, the Villager is technically 20. Also, the female Pokemon Trainer did not debut at the same time as the male one, which is why they're in different categories (that, and the fact they one of them is 20+, while the other is less than 20).

 

[mynameisBlade]

Aside from all of this being completely opinionated, "old" and "new" aren't enough to determine whether or not a character is more deserving than another. A character existing for 20 years longer doesn't automatically make them superior.

Case in point, is anyone willing to deny that Inkling and Isabelle have become such notable icons for Nintendo that it'd almost feel odd if they were excluded? Should they be swapped for popular fan requests like Issac or Geno in the next game because both Inkling and Isabelle are less than 20 years old?

The real question is would the fans be begging for Inkling as much as they have been for Waluigi ? EVERYONE IS HERE!!! Upon seeing that slogan as well as no prior hints or anything of Splatoon coming to Smash. The one question on everyone's mind would be, "OMG!! Where is Inkling......?" I just don't see it. Sure people can be happy that they are in the game, but if they are a NOTABLE enough character to get everybody screaming WHERE ARE THEY?? WHERE ARE THEY?.. I see that as an issue.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So, one of the things that people who like the Mii Fighters tend to want is a Mii "Mage" (I prefer Mii Caster since it continues the naming conventions of the other Mii Fighters), but one of the reasons why it doesn't exist is that there isn't a clear direction to take such a character. The Mii Brawler, Swordfighter, and Gunner already have the short, mid, and long ranged archetypes covered (at least on paper), so there isn't all that much room for a fourth Mii archetype.

Soooo. Since the idea of a mage lends itself to infinite possibilities, what if the Mii Caster's thing was that they had access to...for lack of a better term, "gimmicks'. Each of their Neutral Specials would be something unorthodox. Some examples:

• Dog Summon/Charge: Turns the character into a Rosalina & Luma style puppet fighter.
• Time Twin: Creates a clone that remains inert for a second or two, then copies everything the player does within that time.
• Soul Ally: Allows the Mii to summon an image of an opponent that does a Special Move, and leaves assist style. So, Copy Ability, but better.
  • Might require a charge mechanic where you have to command grab your opponent first since the assist could be pretty OP without any restrictions.
  • It could also be neat if you could select which special move the assist does in a similar fashion to how Monado Arts are selected.
  • I imagine chargeable specials would allow you to tap the button again to command them to use the charged move.

The other Special Moves would be more "normal".

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Not sure what the discussion is about exactly but I imagine people can get cynical when all three first party newcomers are Switch exclusive and one of them was deliberately picked to be extra recent. Still, as for fan requests, base game Smash 4 combined with base game Ultimate knocked it out of the park between Mega Man, Little Mac, Palutena, Shulk, Ridley, K. Rool, each and every veteran and Inkling and later Banjo-Kazooie. That’s like…the complete Elite 4, its Champion and each revisionist redooie of such a concept. Even the fading Brawl requests have their place as Assists. Trying to rake together what slipped through the net and calling it an untapped molehill of requests is very much stretching it and Geno and Isaac are the ultimate skidmarks in this futile attempt to stop the wagon and drive it back 20 years ago to pick up the spoils of an entitled tantrum-induced diarrhea.

 

[Gengar84]

There's also this that we can use to debunk that "too many newbies" argument:

Old characters (20 years and older):


New characters (less than 20 years):


Not actually all that many "new" characters.

Note: Olimar is technically less than 20 right now, but just barely. Also, the Villager is technically 20. Also, the female Pokemon Trainer did not debut at the same time as the male one, which is why they're in different categories (that, and the fact they one of them is 20+, while the other is less than 20).

That really helps to put things into perspective. One thing I will say is that speculation seems to be heavily favored towards newer characters. I’ve tried to bring up retro characters like Crono, Bill Rizer, and the Battletoads on other sites and I usually either get laughed at or completely ignored. Since we haven’t really had an NES rep as DLC yet, I think Bill or the Battletoads would bring something really interesting to Smash. I think Terry was the only SNES rep so Crono would offer something as well.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Gonna feel real sorry for you if this'll be your mentality going forward and there becomes less and less reason to pick those characters, especially business-wise.

Agreed. it's not a bad thing to try out the new characters, even if they aren't as popular.

Also, for PeridotGX - there's a new TerminalMontage vid to get new avatars from. And you are gonna love this one.

 

[Cosmic77]

The real question is would the fans be begging for Inkling as much as they have been for Waluigi ? EVERYONE IS HERE!!! Upon seeing that slogan as well as no prior hints or anything of Splatoon coming to Smash. The one question on everyone's mind would be, "OMG!! Where is Inkling......?" I just don't see it.

Regardless of what the fans want more, we're comparing a Super Mario spinoff regular to the avatars and sole Smash reps of a successful Nintendo franchise that's accumulated nearly 20 M in sales with only two games.

Removing Inkling means Splatoon as a whole is absent from the roster, and given how popular the franchise is, yeah, I think people would say it's a glaring omission.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Not sure what the discussion is about exactly but I imagine people can get cynical when all three first party newcomers are Switch exclusive and one of them was deliberately picked to be extra recent. Still, as for fan requests, base game Smash 4 combined with base game Ultimate knocked it out of the park between Mega Man, Little Mac, Palutena, Shulk, Ridley, K. Rool, each and every veteran and Inkling and later Banjo-Kazooie. That’s like…the complete Elite 4, its Champion and each revisionist redooie of such a concept. Even the fading Brawl requests have their place as Assists. Trying to rake together what slipped through the net and calling it an untapped molehill of requests is very much stretching it and Geno and Isaac are the ultimate skidmarks in this futile attempt to stop the wagon and drive it back 20 years ago to pick up the spoils of an entitled tantrum-induced diarrhea.

I completely agree for base game. Near perfection. Geno as well as a few more Echo Fighters like Black Shadow, Funky/Dixie Kong, Ms. Pacman, etc, would've got it there for me.

Regardless of what the fans want more, we're comparing a Super Mario spinoff regular to the avatars and sole Smash reps of a successful Nintendo franchise that's accumulated nearly 20 M in sales with only two games.

Removing Inkling means Splatoon as a whole is absent from the roster, and given how popular the franchise is, yeah, I think people would say it's a glaring omission.

I agree with this as well, but obviously nobody would argue someone like Waluigi is clearly the BIGGER glaring omission is all I'm saying. Spinoffs and stuff really don't matter if they have the fan support. Characters like Geno prove that without question.

 

[Technomage]

That really helps to put things into perspective. One thing I will say is that speculation seems to be heavily favored towards newer characters. I’ve tried to bring up retro characters like Crono, Bill Rizer, and the Battletoads on other sites and I usually either get laughed at or completely ignored. Since we haven’t really had an NES rep as DLC yet, I think Bill or the Battletoads would bring something really interesting to Smash. I think Terry was the only SNES rep so Crono would offer something as well.

Wait, wasn't Terry exclusive to the Neo Geo during that era?

 

[Gengar84]

Wait, wasn't Terry exclusive to the Neo Geo during that era?

Oh yeah probably. I meant he was from that time period. Poor choice of words on my part. I never really followed Fatal Fury and I was more of a Killer Instinct, Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat fan.

Edit: I just looked it up and there was a Fatal Fury game on the SNES so I’m not going crazy after all lol.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

So a Kazuya lvl9 CPU just won a game at a local.

Told ya he was a great player, hope to see him in bracket one day.

Oh thank god. I thought my getting absolutely bodied by him was just me sucking. Not him being legit broken.

That said, I hope they keep it. Smash doesn’t have many big challenges that aren’t bosses so I’d like more challenging CPUs. Call them Level 10s or whatever it’ll be cool.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

So a Kazuya lvl9 CPU just won a game at a local.

Told ya he was a great player, hope to see him in bracket one day.

I can not believe this