Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Guynamednelson]

Upon rewatching the trailer, doesn't it seem like the Korean backdashes are...fake? Like the two Kazuyas are simply crouching once in a while to give the illusion that they're canceling backdashes with crouches like the KBD? At least we know the wavedashes are real since Sakurai listed the crouch dash as one of Kazuya's moves.

 

[SharkLord]

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New Papa vid!
Nearly an hour long tho, sheeeeeesh

From what I've heard on the Reimu For Smash Discord, apparently I'm on there when discussing that Graze Glitch from a while back.

Huh.

If anyone's interested in watching the really long video please do timestamp the point where I pop up

 

[Shroob]

From what I've heard on the Reimu For Smash Discord, apparently I'm on there when discussing that Graze Glitch from a while back.

Huh.

If anyone's interested in watching the really long video please do timestamp the point where I pop up

You're brought up irt to "Crunch" mechanic that Tekken has.


That's where you're mentioned, lol. He shows your Smashboards post when he brings up Kazuya phasing through Ken's hadouken.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

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New Papa vid!
Nearly an hour long tho, sheeeeeesh

We literally are one character away and he still manages to make speculation more interesting than it actually is.

Gotta give it to papa, without him i probably would just fall into the void and never come back.

 

[SharkLord]

You're brought up irt to "Crunch" mechanic that Tekken has.


That's where you're mentioned, lol. He shows your Smashboards post when he brings up Kazuya phasing through Ken's hadouken.

Well, wouldn't be the first time one of my theories was noticed. There was that one times comicbook.com made an article about the Tales 25th anniversary theory I cooked up a while back.

Anyways, Reimucord noted that the wavedashing and crushing are separate mechanics and probably not related. They dove pretty in-depth with the glitch and theorizing, but I dunno the details. I mainly treat the server as a fun vibe/Touhou discussion server and mostly gloss over the Smash part of it.

 

[Paraster]

I think the Kingdom Hearts lore is hilarious. I like that a series starring Donald Duck has a crazy plot that requires playing like 13 games.

I'm like 90% certain we're not actually supposed to take the Kingdom Hearts story seriously. It's just a melting pot for whatever cool-sounding ideas and cinnamon roll characters Nomura comes up with to carry the over-the-top action along.

 

[perfectchaos83]

The thing with Kazuya going through Ken's Hadoken is just basic invincibility frames. THere's no real reason to assume it's related to the grazing glitch, especially since it doesn't even function like like a graze.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Spoiler

And I kinda see where they could **** up, but I'm on the camp where I don't mind some changes to keep things fresh.

Spoiler

To be clear, I love literally all the additions that AREN'T related to the Whispers. The trip to Jesse's house, expanded Wallmarket, etc. All if that stuff EXPANDS upon the original. It's great.

The Whisper stuff doesn't expand upon the original, it competes with and contradicts the themes of the original.

Spoiler

I'm not worried about the next parts being drastically different though. The party will for sure visit the same places and the plot will keep the same story beats.

Spoiler

I hope you're right, but the stuff with Zack leaves me with little confidence in that.

I'm more than a little worried that they're going to try and save Aerith.

Spoiler

Remake was basically Square Enix going "this is a mess, we need to fit all these things into the story and in a way where it all fits and there's continuity."

Spoiler

They did the EXACT OPPOSITE! They added another layer of complexity and obfuscation rather than clarity.

Spoiler

That and the game is also a meta commentary on what to expect out of remake's where here it's taking the Remake thing literally.

Spoiler

Yeah, and when your new meta commentary negates the old meta commentary...you failed at remaking. It doesn't matter if it's "the point". Being intentional doesn't make it good.

He also poisoned our water supply, burned our crops and delivered a plague unto our houses.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Spoiler

To be clear, I love literally all the additions that AREN'T related to the Whispers. The trip to Jesse's house, expanded Wallmarket, etc. All if that stuff EXPANDS upon the original. It's great.

The Whisper stuff doesn't expand upon the original, it competes with and contradicts the themes of the original.

Spoiler

I hope you're right, but the stuff with Zack leaves me with little confidence in that.

I'm more than a little worried that they're going to try and save Aerith.

Spoiler

They did the EXACT OPPOSITE! They added another layer of complexity and obfuscation rather than clarity.

Spoiler

Yeah, and when your new meta commentary negates the old meta commentary...you failed at remaking. It doesn't matter if it's "the point". Being intentional doesn't make it good.

View attachment 320748

Welp, time for FF6 to get the FF7R treatment!

 

[zeldasmash]

the entire plot of BlazBlue

As someone who considers BlazBlue one of his favorite franchises, the plot of this series is one of the complicated ones I've ever had to follow. There are still things in this series plot-wise that I have no idea how they work.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I think the Kingdom Hearts lore is hilarious. I like that a series starring Donald Duck has a crazy plot that requires playing like 13 games.

Donald Duck is the key to all of this.

This poor guy's throat.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sol Badguy is not only another fighting game character with command inputs but he is also a sword user.

Junkyard Dog isn't a sword. It's a cannon that he beats people with.

Welp, time for FF6 to get the FF7R treatment!

It deserves it! So long as they don't Nomura it.

But my biggest want for a AAA remake after they finish 7 is Chrono Trigger though.

I want some DBFZ graphics though. None of that Octopath ****!

 

[Houndstooth]

But my biggest want for a AAA remake after they finish 7 is Chrono Trigger though. I want some DBFZ graphics though. None of that Octopath ****!

Just give me some Chrono Trigger acknowledgement, ya know? Let me have a new game. I would even take the Octopath style graphics, honestly. But a full remake from the ground up would be fantastic! Definitely my favorite JRPG of all time.

 

[BlondeLombax]

To be fair

Getting a dolphin thrown at you is ****ING HORRIFYING

There was a problem fetching the tweet

From what I heard, infuriating, too.
(The swears are censored, so it should be safe)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

But my biggest want for a AAA remake after they finish 7 is Chrono Trigger though.

I want some DBFZ graphics though. None of that Octopath ****!

Just give me some Chrono Trigger acknowledgement, ya know? Let me have a new game. I would even take the Octopath style graphics, honestly. But a full remake from the ground up would be fantastic! Definitely my favorite JRPG of all time.

I thought Octopath Traveler's art style was good...

Well...when the lighting wasn't bugging out and assaulting my eyes at least. Though to be fair, going from og Chrono Trigger to Octopath Traveler's style probably wouldn't be much of an improvement. Chrono Trigger's pixel art has aged magnificently.

EDIT: If they do make a huge remake/re-imagining of Chrono Trigger, I do hope they keep Magus's purple cape and not switch to the red one that was originally intended. The purple cape looks better.

 

[ZelDan]

I'd totally be down with a Chrono Trigger remake.

I'd say I'd also love to see a whole new Chrono game, but I don't think I trust SE to do it justice.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I think a Mii Costume would be much more fitting to rep it:

But given that it's the BEST selling FPS franchise ever, Call of Duty getting a "Soldier" Mii Costume or something would be neat.

I think the series is too realistic to get a fighter. But it has some popular named characters to make Miis of instead of a generic soldier, particularly Captain Price & Ghost.

I think the series has lost all of its charm & fun factor over the past decade, but man I love some of those older CODs. Call of Duty 4 & Modern Warfare 2 are still two of my favorite shooter story modes.

So I’d be hyped to see some representation especially if it was from the Xbox 360 era games. The series was regularly getting Wii ports back then so that’d be the era to rep anyway.

 

[Lionfranky]

Doom technically didn't invent fps. Wolfenstein founded most of framework. Hell, Wolfenstein wasn't actually the first fps iirc. What Doom actually brought was death match (other modes) and mod. Then, Doom popularized fps. It's true that some of attributes Halo is credited for was already done by some. But, let's not kid ourselves that Halo didn't bring anything new to table. Two weapon system, matchmaking, separate grenade and melee button, regenerating shield/hp(yes, this mechanic existed, but not in the way Halo did) After Halo, shooter controller scheme barely changed. After Halo, shooter changed alot, and you still see its influence to this date.

 

[Mamboo07]

I think the series is too realistic to get a fighter. But it has some popular named characters to make Miis of instead of a generic soldier, particularly Captain Price & Ghost.

I think the series has lost all of its charm & fun factor over the past decade, but man I love some of those older CODs. Call of Duty 4 & Modern Warfare 2 are still two of my favorite shooter story modes.

So I’d be hyped to see some representation especially if it was from the Xbox 360 era games. The series was regularly getting Wii ports back then so that’d be the era to rep anyway.

Is Solid Snake a joke?
(He has grenades and a rocket launcher thing)

 

[perfectchaos83]

Is Solid Snake a joke?
(He has grenades and a rocket launcher thing)

I wouldn't exactly call MGS realistic.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why is there even such a strong demand for a "FPS rep"? I myself couldn't be bothered playing them, or find the concept suitable for a Smash fighter honestly. I'm not a hater, I just think the whole genre has a negative impact on gaming, everything is now a FPS, and that's probably why I like Nintendo as much as I do. I won't deny Doom and Halo aren't big names, but I much rather have.... Anything else.

 

[osby]

Why is there even such a strong demand for a "FPS rep"?

Because it's a huge and long-lasting genre. You're bound to have a lot of FPS fans in almost any notable video game community. They're not super popular among Nintendo fans but with how much we talk about third-party games nowadays, it's inevitable that we're gonna have demand for popular genres.

It's not unique to FPS, there is a notably increasing demand for other genres such as puzzles, too. It's just their games tend to have more humble sales and fans compared to say, Halo or Doom.

I myself couldn't be bothered playing them, or find the concept suitable for a Smash fighter honestly.

I'm not a big fan either but that doesn't make the genre any less significant. Also, a lot of fighters in Smash come from games that aren't suitable to make a platform fighter. Half of the fun in them is to see how they are translated from a completely different genre, imo.

I'm not a hater, I just think the whole genre has a negative impact on gaming, everything is now a FPS, and that's probably why I like Nintendo as much as I do.

Are you talking about the 2000s? I don't see FPS dominating the industry nearly as much as they used to.

If anything, the big trend nowadays seems to be open-world action/RPG games. Which Nintendo also did with BotW and XC2.

I won't deny Doom and Halo aren't big names, but I much rather have.... Anything else.

No objections here, you do you.

 

[ZelDan]

Why is there even such a strong demand for a "FPS rep"? I myself couldn't be bothered playing them, or find the concept suitable for a Smash fighter honestly. I'm not a hater, I just think the whole genre has a negative impact on gaming, everything is now a FPS, and that's probably why I like Nintendo as much as I do. I won't deny Doom and Halo aren't big names, but I much rather have.... Anything else.

Everything is now an FPS? This isn't the PS3/360 days you know.

I also fail to see why characters like Master Chief or Doom Slayer would be "unsuitable" for Smash when someone weapons-based like Snake is in the game, or we have characters like Bayonetta or joker with guns.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I wouldn't exactly call MGS realistic.

tbf neither is CoD when you have stupid stuff like this scene lol

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[Metal Shop X]

Doom Guy as been shown to beat up peoples with his barehand in multiples games, and the Doom series as alot of silly stuff in it too. The only thing that really hold back I say is the gore, but if Bayo could get in without too much changes to her design, I feel Doom Guy can make the jump without too much problems.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I thought Octopath Traveler's art style was good...

It's NEAT. But I don't want EVERY retro JRPG being remade with it. And since they're already doing it with Dragon Quest, I don't want to see Chrono Trigger use it also.

That said, I'd rather DQ3 wasn't using it either. I just do think it's the best way to represent Toriyama's art.

Especially since the original OP was pretty much intentionally trying to look like FF6. THOSE are the games the OT team should be remaking.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I swear if Zelda and Metroid weren't first party then people would say those franchises don't mesh woth Smash well due to the fantasy and scifi looks often being more on the realistic end compared to Mario, DK, Kirby, Pokemon, etc

 

[Lionfranky]

Doom Guy as been shown to beat up peoples with his barehand in multiples games, and the Doom series as alot of silly stuff in it too. The only thing that really hold back I say is the gore, but if Bayo could get in without too much changes to her design, I feel Doom Guy can make the jump without too much problems.

The real problem is Japan popularity really. But, I believe Japan factor is fan rule. People conveniently say Ridley and Little Mac are exception because they are base game and first party. I think that's bad reasoning because they would've not added them in the first place if they were so worried about offending Japanese fans.
I think this is the reason why Master Chief is more likely as Halo left lasting impression on Japan during 360. What I mean is that Nintendo would likely choose Chief if they are still concerned about Japanese players when it comes to choosing FPS rep.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

What's funny is that Doom is out there enough with its settings and concepts (especially in the recent games) that combined with its relative absence from 2005-2015 allowed the franchise to largely avoid falling into the typical aesthetics and clichés that many of the games it inspired did.

Its a bit like however one views Sonic's 3D outings, its evolution and expansion of lore/characters in the aughts did allow it to long outlive many of its imitators that leaned way too much into being mascots with attitude.

 

[Mamboo07]

Doom Guy as been shown to beat up peoples with his barehand in multiples games, and the Doom series as alot of silly stuff in it too. The only thing that really hold back I say is the gore, but if Bayo could get in without too much changes to her design, I feel Doom Guy can make the jump without too much problems.

Same thing as Mortal Kombat which fans want for Scorpion in Smash, but it was banned in Japan for being violent.

 

[SKX31]

"A Guilty Gear rep was added to Smash. Twitter Smash fans are mad because of 'another' fighting game character. What they don't know yet is that GG fans are also mad, because it's May and she's balanced exactly as she was in Strive."

Jokes aside, I do think it's kinda funny how salty she's making people.

Oh, and since we're on the fighting game topic, I've been getting a lot of Tekken in my recommendations, and I think I know what King's Spirit fight will be like:

You wanted Incin back throw to be buffed? You'll get it.

Also, when can we expect the mod community to make an "Everyone is broken" mode? Sakurai won't do it, might as well.

I thought that King's Spirit battle would be "Everyone is broken" mode and Incin would be able to chain together grabs while making it look like he's mashing buttons. When in reality his grab chains are that complex. For example:

Same thing as Mortal Kombat which fans want for Scorpion in Smash, but it was banned in Japan for being violent.

This again?

Sorry, but it's inaccurate to say it's banned per se: rather CERO is very much blood / gore-averse and RE has had to censor that out in order to release the Japanese versions there. Meanwhile, NRS doesn't want to remove the gore from the newer MK games because that's a primary selling point. So both NRS and CERO are at an standstill practically and neither want to move an inch. So the MK games remain unapproved (officially) and unreleased outside of Steam - which has the English version - IIRC (could be wrong here, so do correct me if I am).

 

[3BitSaurus]

I thought that King's Spirit battle would be "Everyone is broken" mode and Incin would be able to chain together grabs while making it look like he's mashing buttons. When in reality his grab chains are that complex. For example:

Oh boy. It reminds me of the SNK bosses that were actually inputting commands at superhuman speeds instead of executing moves programatically.

 

[Twilord]

This is probably kind of dumb of me; but I can't help but think that either of these would make very amusing head-gear for a Mii-Fighter...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

This again?

Sorry, but it's inaccurate to say it's banned per se: rather CERO is very much blood / gore-averse and RE has had to censor that out in order to release the Japanese versions there. Meanwhile, NRS doesn't want to remove the gore from the newer MK games because that's a primary selling point. So both NRS and CERO are at an standstill practically and neither want to move an inch. So the MK games remain unapproved (officially) and unreleased outside of Steam - which has the English version - IIRC (could be wrong here, so do correct me if I am).

Aside from the fact of having Scorpion, Sub-Zero, and Raiden in the Injustice games showing they can still work for Smash.

 

[MattX20]

As Papagenos noted in his recent video, all of the DLC fighters that made it into the second fighter pass are characters that didn't get in initially or character concepts from older games fully realized. Min Min and Pyra and Mythra were both considered for Ultimate, but it was too late in the base game to be added at all. It took 5 years for Steve and Minecraft content in Smash to be realized. Sephiroth was added to address the content disparity for Final Fantasy. And lastly, Kazuya was a character concept from Smash 4 where Sakurai wanted to implement a Tekken rep (namely Heihachi) into Smash 4, but was too complex at the time to work correctly. When looking at this, our final potential character could fall in line with this pattern: Ayumi Tachibana for example was considered for Melee, but was cut because her games weren't outside of Japan at the time. There's also the Rhythm Heaven content that was in Smash 4 as well as substantial evidence in the game code that a Rhythm Heaven rep was intended for the game but was cut.

 

[PSIGuy]

I don't see Ayumi or a Rhythm Heaven character getting the same treatment as Minmin or Pyra/Mythra. Those two have more going for them than just "oops they missed out" - they push big first party titles as well. Meanwhile Rhythm Heaven is currently dead, and remakes don't get marketed that aggressively.

 

[Dinoman96]

The Famicom Detective Club remakes don't even have a proper retail/physical release outside of Japan, for crying out loud. I think some people are kinda overestimating how much Nintendo cares about it.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Wasn't there an obscure claim of Dante having been planned for Ultimate? Don't know exactly where the source was but that's what I heard. Wonder if anyone knows anything about that.

 

[SNEKeater]

Wasn't there an obscure claim of Dante having been planned for Ultimate? Don't know exactly where the source was but that's what I heard. Wonder if anyone knows anything about that.

Probably a fake rumor.
Unless you're talking about the dude who spoiled a lot of details about DMC5 which were literally correct and then also said Dante was going to be in Smash. He probably added the last part just for fun.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

If there is an intriguing element left to speculation its if indeed the last character does fall into the second chance category or if its Sakurai & Nintendo using Fighter 11 as an opportunity to have a character they wouldn't have considered a couple of years ago.