Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Þe 1 → Way]

It'd be bad if that character is overpowered, then. XD

The screen starts and its Sakurai sitting in a random alley.

“Greetings, welcome to the final Super Smash Brothers Ultimate Presentation. You all have let me know on Twitter that all my work on characters suck because they weren’t who you wanted. So I’ve decided the next fighter shouldn’t be Master Chief from the Halo series, but instead we will be rereleasing Bayonetta exactly as she appeared in Super Smash Brothers For Wii U and 3DS. Thank you for tuning in.”

 

[Technomage]

The screen starts and its Sakurai sitting in a random alley.

“Greetings, welcome to the final Super Smash Brothers Ultimate Presentation. You all have let me know on Twitter that all my work on characters suck because they weren’t who you wanted. So I’ve decided the next fighter shouldn’t be Master Chief from the Halo series, but instead we will be rereleasing Bayonetta exactly as she appeared in Super Smash Brothers For Wii U and 3DS. Thank you for tuning in.”

Time to queue the Boo-Urns meme:

 

[SNEKeater]

These are the third party characters who IMO are 99.9% never going anywhere. I anticipate that regardless of how big the roster is next time around, we'll probably see characters like Tails / Chun-Li / Zero etc. Expanding on those tight-knit "obvious" third parties feels like the right way to handle big-ticket base game newcomers that won't feel particularly jarring even if the roster is cut down considerably.

Yeah I pretty much agree.

If Namco is still working on Smash in the future, which will probably be the case, Pac-man, which already is a lock in my eyes, would return 100%. Now with Kazuya I'd guess he would return as well, I don't think Namco would oppose against that at all.
Sonic and Mega Man are not going anywhere and while you're at it I don't see why Nintendo would not make the effort to keep Ryu, who is also a big icon and if Smash had to keep only one FGC chat, he would be the one for sure. And as you said Capcom is very easy to work with and they don't have any problems having their characters in trailers. I mean, Ken was defeated by Incineroar in the same very trailer he was revealed.

I'd argue Bayonetta, Joker and Terry would be in a good spot aswell. Bayonetta I don't think I have to explain why, while Joker and Terry, now fan favorites, wouldn't be that expensive.

And your point about keeping these 4 and building the third party roster from there makes sense, and I could see it. Even if we didn't get new series, a third party lineup of newcomers with Tails/Eggman, Chun-Li and Zero, to name a few, would be pretty big, enough to bring a lot of eyes and able to compensate to an extent the potential absence of the likes of Cloud, Banjo and the rest.

Personally besides those 4 I'd add at least Ken and Bayonetta.

One more to go!

How would you guys rank the newcomers so far?

I'd say 8/10

Which is kinda fun because none of those characters were in my personal "list" of most wanteds before their inclusion, except for Ridley and K. Rool. Though I never thought some of these characters were possible before they made it in. Otherwise a Persona character, for example, would have been among my priorities.

 

[Noipoi]

One more to go!

How would you guys rank the newcomers so far?

8.9/10.

There’s really only one guy I outright don’t like. Everyone else ranges from “not for me” to “INCREDIBLE”

 

[Technomage]

8.9/10.

There’s really only one guy I outright don’t like. Everyone else ranges from “not for me” to “INCREDIBLE”

May I ask which fighter?

 

[Noipoi]

May I ask which fighter?

Not a fan of Byleth.

And it’s fine if others like em, I’m not gonna be that guy who craps on everyone who likes what I don’t.

But yeah, I don’t like em

 

[ZelDan]

One more to go!

How would you guys rank the newcomers so far?

HYPE:
NICE:
INDIFFERENT:
DISAPPOINTING:
YIKES:

OVERALL: Pretty good. Mostly fine picks though a few that I didn't care for and many didn't personally click with me.

 

[SNEKeater]

By the way, do you think we might get more characters in the background for Kazuya's stage besides Heihachi?

I mean, the way the trailer presented him made me think he is the only character in the background, but at the same time that would be kinda weird, I think. I'd expect at least a few more, and considering Namco works in Smash, maybe they could easily reuse some of their Tekken models for the background cameos instead of having to do those from the scratch.

 

[kylexv]

Pic of the Day:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Your daily dose of Kazuya

 

[osby]

One more to go!

How would you guys rank the newcomers so far?

7/10.

A pretty solid line-up and even the ones I'm neutral towards have respectable reasons to be there. But the lows like K.Rool and Banjo are really low.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

By the way, do you think we might get more characters in the background for Kazuya's stage besides Heihachi?

I mean, the way the trailer presented him made me think he is the only character in the background, but at the same time that would be kinda weird, I think. I'd expect at least a few more, and considering Namco works in Smash, maybe they could easily reuse some of their Tekken models for the background cameos instead of having to do those from the scratch.

I would expect Jin for sure if we do get more.

 

[GoodGrief741]

It’s not about disrespect, it’s about his unique pull in the industry & how Ultimate is such a hard game to top.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at, care to elaborate on this point?

Mario Kart 8 DX’s success is only going to give Nintendo the idea that they can just port a game over with DLC intact and still have it sell like hotcakes.

Will it? I think they're smart enough to realize that the Wii U tanking and the Switch being a huge success had a part in it. That's why they ported every Wii U exclusive to the Switch. I doubt we're going to see many ports from the Switch to the next system unless its sales numbers somehow blow the Switch out of the water. If you have the same install base then everyone will already have the game.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I mean, Konami owns Yu-Gi-Oh! now, so I'm not taking any chances on that.

Wait, since when?

 

[Idon]

Smash Ultimate's newcomers are an amazing blend of long awaited fan requests and exciting new unexpected characters...

NONE OF WHICH APPEAL TO ME.

 

[Noipoi]

By the way, do you think we might get more characters in the background for Kazuya's stage besides Heihachi?

I mean, the way the trailer presented him made me think he is the only character in the background, but at the same time that would be kinda weird, I think. I'd expect at least a few more, and considering Namco works in Smash, maybe they could easily reuse some of their Tekken models for the background cameos instead of having to do those from the scratch.

Roger or riot

 

[kylexv]

One more to go!

How would you guys rank the newcomers so far?

Hype Meter Overloaded:
Great Additions:
Solid Additions:
Indifferent:
Outright Disliked: None!

 

[cashregister9]

Pic of the Day:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Your daily dose of Kazuya

He looks very pleased : )

 

[Noipoi]

Smash Ultimate's newcomers are an amazing blend of long awaited fan requests and exciting new unexpected characters...

NONE OF WHICH APPEAL TO ME.
View attachment 320237

Punished Idon

 

[Shroob]

Pic of the Day:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Your daily dose of Kazuya

, "Huh, that was some good-ass Tekken."

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Pic of the Day:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Your daily dose of Kazuya

He's watching.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Pic of the Day:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Your daily dose of Kazuya

Don’t know Sakurai is developing the newest Playstation Alls Stars Battle Royale.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I do think them expanding Stage Creator and doing a Mario Maker-style Adventure Mode would be cool.

Or just, make your own spirit battles.

Pick the stage, the stage modifiers, the enemies, their modifiers, special rules, etc.

 

[RoboFist]

One more to go!

How would you guys rank the newcomers so far?

Base roster started off stupidly strong with the now legendary "EVERYONE IS HERE", along with some fresh new faces, Ballot winners, and motherf****** (which still remains one of the most shocking Smash reveals to me). Finally getting along with the smorgasbord of Castlevania content left me feeling so dang satisfied. Seeing make a triumphant return was cool, especially seeing the reactions from fans.

But then it slowed to a crawl and ended on a whimper. Don't get me wrong, I love and . I think they're hilarious and creative additions. But base roster is when Sakurai is able to dig deep into the Nintendo archives and dust off some crazy picks. I wanted to see more out-of-nowhere picks like and , you know?

Definitive acknowledgement of Echoes (along with , one of my personal wants) was fantastic, but I can't help but shake the feeling that they could've been utilized more, especially in the Fighters Passes. , , and were great additions, even if the latter two really should've been more diverse. It's also kind of bizarre that we just...didn't get more. Alph, Ms. Pac-Man, Dixie Kong, Octolings, Medusa, Birdo, Shadow or Metal Sonic or even Tails. There was clearly no shortage of potential Echoes.

I don't like and never liked Incineroar.

The first FP started stupidly strong with . Almost too strong. It completely destroyed any preconceptions anyone had about DLC speculation, which both helped and hurt. /Dragon Quest was long overdue and more than deserving, and giving him four separate skins was a stroke of genius. I've been wanting since I knew what Super Smash Bros. was, so their reveal was nothing short of a monumental moment for me.

's fate was such a "best case scenario" for a DLC character from a more niche series (which, come on guys, yes he was). A small percentage of Smash's fanbase was familiar with him, but his playstyle and overall attitude won many of us over.

was the victim of poor timing, but I'm still glad that 3H got their rep. That game deserved a rep far more than Corrin's.

FP2 is where things get super fun for me personally. None of them are on my "most wanted" list, but I've subscribed to the "Tying Up Loose Ends" theory and it's making every reveal so much more satisfying. ARMS and Xenoblade 2 getting their reps, Minecraft finally coming to fruition, filling in the very noticeable gaps in FF7's representation. And now , giving us Namco's long overdue second rep. I'm waiting to see how many/if we get any Soul Calibur Mii costumes to really judge how I feel about Kazuya right now. If we end up with little Mii versions of Soul Calibur and Soul Edge, I'll forgive everything else.

Honestly, it's really hard to complain about the quality and quantity of this roster. Taking a step back and looking at it all as a whole, there really is a little bit of something for everyone. Geno's absence stings a teeny tiny bit. Shantae's stings a hell of a lot worse. But at the end of the day, I can jump into an 8 player match and watch Princess Daisy, Simon Belmont, Banjo & Kazooie, Isabelle, Joker, Sephiroth, an Enderman, and a potted plant fight each other on the back of a Titan from XC2.

Feels good, man. 8.7 outta 10. There'll never be another like this one anytime soon. Enjoy it while it's happening.

 

[Flik]

Watch Sakurai casually reveal during the presentaiton the that two one of Kazuya's alts is Mokujin and Tetsujin.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Watch Sakurai casually reveal during the presentaiton the that two one of Kazuya's alts is Mokujin and Tetsujin.

I'd main Mokujin.

...crap. Now I really want that.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Cut talk is weird because we never bring up the very real possibility of Sakurai retiring from Smash or game dev as a whole & the series going on hiatus for the next decade+.

The only way that will happen is if we don't get another system for the next decade+.

If there's a new system, there will be a new Smash. Even if Nintendo gets someone else to direct it.

 

[WahHahaha]

I don't expect the next Smash Bros. to bring back every 3rd Party back. Some of them, sure. All of them. Definitely not. Especially in the cases of Square(due to the vast amount of licenses despite their willingness) and Konami(due to being a wild card).

That's not to say that the next Smash Bros. won't be good or will not have a pretty good roster on it's own. Like not just any new 3rd Parties that enter the roster. I mean, when you look at just the Nintendo side of the roster, it's pretty dang good. Like besides having the currant roster and return of many veterans like Pokemon Trainer and Wolf, and the Zelda cast being diversified from different games rather than Link, Zelda and Ganondorf being from the same game, we got frickin' Ridley, King K. Rool, Daisy, Dark Samus, Splatoon, ARMS, Pyra & Mythra, a Fire Emblem character that uses other physical weapons besides just a sword with Byleth, a wrestler character with Incineroar, etc.

Like being a treasure trove of 3rd Parties crossovers isn't just the only strength that Super Smash Bros. has. It still has a fantastic list of Nintendo characters, both in the playable list(with 23 series) and those yet to become playable. If they bring a bunch of wanted 1st Party characters that people have wanted alongside new additions from newer games, I think the reception will still be pretty positive even with some of the 3rd Party removals.
Kinda like how the Nintendo Direct was received this month. We got Metroid Dread, we got Advance Wars, we got WarioWare, we got a classic Mario Party game, we got Super Monkey Ball, we got Fatal Frame, etc. And alongside games we knew were coming like Breath of the Wild 2, Shin Megami Tensei 5, Monster Hunter Stories 2, Mario + Rabbids 2, etc. Like we got a diverse amount of games and game series shown off and the reception was very positive.

I think the next Smash Bros. can still be very good if Nintendo can back-up any 3rd Party removals with a diverse new lineup of 1st Parties and new 3rd Parties. We may not get Metal Gear or Dragon Quest, but we can still get other 3rd Party series like Monster Hunter or even Indie series like Undertale.
And after Little Mac, Dark Samus and Isabelle, who's going to be the next Assist Trophy to become playable? Is it going to be Isaac? Is it going to be Takamaru? Ashley? Krystal? Is Waluigi going to escape the Assist Trophy curse? Or if some 3rd Party series returns? Maybe Alucard? Maybe Zero? Maybe Shovel Knight?
And what is going to be the new Nintendo series to get a playable character? Golden Sun? Advance Wars? Astral Chain? Ring Fit Adventure? Like, sure we are all thinking, "Which characters are we going to lose?" first and foremost, but some of these other questions are also interesting to think about.

Like Ultimate is a legendary game all on it's own with it's vast amount of crossovers and whatnot. And it's going to be hard to top it off. But I think Nintendo can still make a very good Smash Bros. game after Ultimate if it brings just as many new series and unique characters. Heck, not just with potential new characters relating to series getting new games coming out like Advance Wars, but we still have the Smash Ballot. And the Smash Ballot wasn't just able to give us some very wanted character like Ridley, King K. Rool and Castlevania, but also bring some wanted characters as Assist Trophies that could potentially become new characters in the next game, like Isaac or Alucard.

I've never followed the logic that an Assist Trophy promotion is somehow something that can only happen in the next game. The only thing people ever bring up to back this up is patterns. Smash fans see patterns in everything at this point, it's getting to the level where some of these people might need genuine psychiatric help.

Also why are we already speculating for Smash 6 when it's probably years away and the DLC for this game hasn't even finished yet? I feel like you should at least wait for an announcement first.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

In terms of the chances of our 3rd Parties returning, I think every fighter except Snake and those from Square Enix have a great chance of returning for base game.

Every single one of Squares Reps has been DLC originally. If it weren’t for Everyone is Here I’d think Cloud would’ve been DLC again.

Snake has the whole Kojima problem. Metal Gear didn’t get any new content outside spirits to my knowledge.

Castlevania is probably the most represented 3rd Party in the game. So I don’t think its a Konami Problem in General.

As for Bamco, Capcom, Microsoft, and Sega. I don’t see a situation in which Pac Man, Mega Man, Steve, or Sonic get cut. And all the other reps from those companies are fan favorites (Banjo), massive icons (Ryu), or promote something bigtime (Bayonetta). So bringing them along seems likely.

That leaves Terry, who is well liked and dirt cheap.

Whether or not these guys do make it back is another question though, as a great chance isn’t a guaranteed chance. Thats just my two cents anyhow.

Also why are we already speculating for Smash 6 when it's probably years away and the DLC for this game hasn't even finished yet? I feel like you should at least wait for an announcement first.

We’ve speculated on new fighters since before December 2018. The new Smash is likely years off sure. But after CP11 it’ll be the only Smash related thing to talk about. This is more just to relax and talk about something new than to eagerly await whats just around the corner.

 

[Ivander]

Snake has the whole Kojima problem. Metal Gear didn’t get any new content outside spirits to my knowledge.

It did get some additional music, including a couple new remixes.

 

[WahHahaha]

We’ve speculated on new fighters since before December 2018. The new Smash is likely years off sure. But after CP11 it’ll be the only Smash related thing to talk about. This is more just to relax and talk about something new than to eagerly await whats just around the corner.
[/QUOTE]


Years away means either half or close to the end of the decade when a new Nintendo system is out. I don't know, it just seems weird to speculate about something that could be more than 5 years away.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Snake has the whole Kojima problem. Metal Gear didn’t get any new content outside spirits to my

As already mentioned, MGS did get more content, Peace Walker specifically got a surprising amount of love, which came out 2 years after Brawl

 

[BlondeLombax]

Snake has the whole Kojima problem. Metal Gear didn’t get any new content outside spirits to my knowledge.

Reder to the response to your post by Ivander .

Every single one of Squares Reps has been DLC originally. If it weren’t for Everyone is Here I’d think Cloud would’ve been DLC again.

The issues with that content aren't entirely Squeenix's fault. The copyrights for Final Fantasy's music are all over the place, and the Dragon Quest composer is a bit of an ass, to put it gently.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Years away means either half or close to the end of the decade when a new Nintendo system is out. I don't know, it just seems weird to speculate about something that could be more than 5 years away.

Fair, but I can say myself that it fun to talk about something else. Even if it may be a long ways off.

The issues with that content aren't entirely Squeenix's fault. The copyrights for Final Fantasy's music are all over the place, and the Dragon Quest composer is a bit of an ass, to put it gently.

I was talking about when the content came instead of how the content came.

The song thing is understandable. I’m surprised they managed to get 8DQ songs in the first place and Sephiroth solved all the problems I had with FF content.

However, all these characters were introduced as DLC. Which doesn’t bode well for a base game slot next Smash imo.

Fair for MGS. I forgot about the remixes and additions.

 

[GoodGrief741]

As already mentioned, MGS did get more content, Peace Walker specifically got a surprising amount of love, which came out 2 years after Brawl

Unfortunately that love couldn't translate to the music front. No Heavens Divide, Sins of the Father, Quiet's Theme, Love Deterrence

It's a shame because Calling to the Night has been the objective best track since Brawl but we can't even get Snake Eater with vocals.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's a shame because Calling to the Night has been the objective best track since Brawl but we can't even get Snake Eater with vocals.

On the bright side, the new Snake Eater without vocals is a bop.

Granted, someone absolutely owning the vocals would make it even better, but for now, this shall suffice.


Also Rules of Nature when?

 

[SnowClaws]

For those who care or not, Tekken x Street Fighter is still alive as that was a mistranslation done by the person who sub the video

There was a problem fetching the tweet

From the man himself: https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sro0br

Huh, you'd think there'd be a bigger market share in Asia just for Korean players alone. Is this only counting how many times the games have been bought for consoles and not played in arcades?

...Hmm, I thought someone else was going to answer your question in my place; oh well, I guess I will answer this question to the best of my knowledge/little research.

Spoiler: Research

In 2013, when Joystiq journalist visit Namco Bandai, they met Harada who state at the time that Tekken was the top fighting game with 42.5 million copies worldwide to date, and exclaimed that 20 million or more have come from Europe.

Article: Tekken Revolution downloaded 2 million times, franchise to-date units crest 42 million published by Joystiq (aka engadget) at Sept 19, 2013.

In 2016, 4Gamer had a end of the year developer talk, and Siliconera translated a statement made by Harada about where the sales number of Tekken came from.

Here, are two quote translated by Siliconera:

"More than anything, 2017 is about the release of Tekken 7. Of the 44 million units in total console sales throughout the entire Tekken series, 95% of it actually comes from foreign countries, in the order of Europe > United States > Asia Oceania > Japan."

“In other words, main-numbered titles have sales that can exceed 3 million overseas, but I don’t think any fighting game sells that much in Japan, but it doesn’t feel that way, right? That said, even with all the hype going on, the gap in sales figure for Japan is just too wide."

Original source: 4Gamer Article: Tekken Series Producer Harada Says About 95% Of Its Sales Come From Outside Japan published by Siliconera at Dec 27, 2016

Lastly, the June 3, 2021 tweet that I posted: 50% - Europe, 35 - 7 % - North America, 3% - Japan, and combined Asia sales is less than 10%. Another tweet by Harada indicate it is strong in Middle East and Oceania, but mainly in Europe and North America.

So, to answer your question, yes it is talking about console sales, and not the arcade scene.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Fair for MGS. I forgot about the remixes and additions.

On top of that, the series logo for MG was changed from the FOXTROT logo (which more or less became Kojima's logo) into the exclamation point. It's sad, but it seems like so long as Kojima is distanced from the project, Snake is as good as safe.

 

[SpectreJordan]

These are the third party characters who IMO are 99.9% never going anywhere. I anticipate that regardless of how big the roster is next time around, we'll probably see characters like Tails / Chun-Li / Zero etc. Expanding on those tight-knit "obvious" third parties feels like the right way to handle big-ticket base game newcomers that won't feel particularly jarring even if the roster is cut down considerably.

Nice! Someone who’s smart & doesn’t think Ryu will be cut. The amount of people who think he’ll be gone is crazy. He’s in some low budget Power Rangers fighter now, Capcom isn’t really greedy with him. He’s 100% a Smash mainstay.

 

[Lamperouge]

One more to go!

How would you guys rank the newcomers so far?

9.5/10

Ridley, Dark Samus, Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra/Mythra were all characters I really wanted and a few of the other choices that I was initially unfamiliar with, like Joker and Hero, have introduced me to some of my favorite games ever. Richter was also a pleasant surprise because I never expected to see my favorite Belmont make it in and Sephiroth's inclusion is just plain awesome.

I can live with the other characters and understand why they were chosen, although I don't particularly care much for them.

 

[DarthEnderX]

FOXTROT

It's just FOX.

How would you guys rank the newcomers so far?

Put Kazuya in the Yeah! category.