Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[PeridotGX]

Back on another thread, someone asked a question about balancing healing moves without breaking its character, and I suggested a character who specializes in defense and survival, but sucks at damaging and killing others; any characters who could fit that mold?

I think a moveset with prominent Healing capabilities could work. In PMEX, there are a few characters that have incredibly easy healing methods (Ivysaur, Black Knight, maybe some other characters) and they don't seem too broken.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I think a moveset with prominent Healing capabilities could work. In PMEX, there are a few characters that have incredibly easy healing methods (Ivysaur, Black Knight, maybe some other characters) and they don't seem too broken.

A lot of times the issue seems to be more that healing characters are annoying more than they are unfair. People really hate characters that camp a lot. Healing characters tend to be prone to that and exacerbate the issue by being hard to kill on top of that.

I'm sure the concept could work, but it would be tough to make it both balanced and fun for people to fight against.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I regret to inform you all that we have suffered a great loss today:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Nintendo has chosen to retire Kinopio-kun. May he forever be remembered for his effective promotional skills...

This is so sad, Alexa play Toad despacito.

Spoiler

 

[Pillow]

A lot of times the issue seems to be more that healing characters are annoying more than they are unfair. People really hate characters that camp a lot. Healing characters tend to be prone to that and exacerbate the issue by being hard to kill on top of that.

I'm sure the concept could work, but it would be tough to make it both balanced and fun for people to fight against.

Healing isn't an issue by itself, but unconditional and unlimited healing promotes a boring and unfun playstyle both for the player and the opponent. If the healing move is hard to land like Nosferatu or has a finite amount of uses like Wonderwing then it would be fine.

That said, I don't think a character like Sora, who has basically infinite moves he could take away from his home series, really requires a healing mechanic.

 

[Guynamednelson]

A lot of times the issue seems to be more that healing characters are annoying more than they are unfair. People really hate characters that camp a lot. Healing characters tend to be prone to that and exacerbate the issue by being hard to kill on top of that.

I'm sure the concept could work, but it would be tough to make it both balanced and fun for people to fight against.

Sounds like Chansey shouldn't be Smash's medic then. Competitive Pokemon players would know she and Blissey have a reputation for being walls.

Although they do have low physical defense, and a weakness to fighting, so...2x damage/knockback from Smash attacks?

 

[Pillow]

Sounds like Chansey shouldn't be Smash's medic then. Competitive Pokemon players would know she and Blissey have a reputation for being walls.

Although they do have low physical defense, and a weakness to fighting, so...2x damage/knockback from Smash attacks?

Blissey riding on Skarmory as her mount would be the true ideal representation of Stall players on Pokemon Showdown.

 

[Sage of Ice]

Let’s have a bit of fun.
Name 5 assist trophies and 2 pokeballs you would want upgrade to playable and why.

easy prompt, most of my wishlist is made up of current assists anyway

Krystal - polearms and ice powers are in short supply, she'd stand out not only from her Star Fox companions but from the rest of the roster as well
Midna - Zelda is long overdue for some new blood. she's super cool and fun in her own right, and like Krystal she'd stand out from her contemporaries
Skull Kid - cool, fun, and original, same as Midna. the last fully unique Zelda rep was Zelda herself, 3 games and 20 years ago. We're overdue, and I'm collecting with interest. besides, people are always asking for more villains
Phosphora - Uprising was great and deserves better than a palette swap come to life; and she'd be one of my top picks from it regardless of the AT prompt
Isaac - admittedly I don't know much about him, but earth elementals are in even shorter supply than the aforementioned ice

Genesect - my favorite Pokemon generation got passed over for my (at the time) least favorite, and what better way to amend this than with one of my favorite Pokemon from that set? it parallels the already-present Mewtwo in a few ways, too, and that seems like something they could have fun with
Mimikyu - in the hype season before Ultimate this was my third choice for an Alola Pokemon, but neither Decidueye nor Lycanroc is a Pokeball summon so I can't pick them for this

edit: yowza i didn't realize how far back i'd gone, sorry!

 

[Munchi]

I'm surprised no one mentioned Hero's heal spell

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Blissey riding on Skarmory as her mount would be the true ideal representation of Stall players on Pokemon Showdown.

You forgot the Toxapex

I'm surprised no one mentioned Hero's heal spell

Hero only has 2 of those per stock while getting an extra Heal per kill, which are 10% each and have a low chance of being rolled. Most Hero players I've seen, myself included, use it solely to manipulate the RNG into rolling something useful more often

 

[SKX31]

A lot of times the issue seems to be more that healing characters are annoying more than they are unfair. People really hate characters that camp a lot. Healing characters tend to be prone to that and exacerbate the issue by being hard to kill on top of that.

I'm sure the concept could work, but it would be tough to make it both balanced and fun for people to fight against.

Healing isn't an issue by itself, but unconditional and unlimited healing promotes a boring and unfun playstyle both for the player and the opponent. If the healing move is hard to land like Nosferatu or has a finite amount of uses like Wonderwing then it would be fine.

That said, I don't think a character like Sora, who has basically infinite moves he could take away from his home series, really requires a healing mechanic.

It's also potentially dangerous for the healing character since counterplay would in this case be to get the healer off stage and keep the healer there as long as possible. That or gimp / set up a ledgetrap. would be particularily problematic since she can just harass, poke and then edgeguard the healer to smithereens. is another example since he has a lot of options to get people off stage and has numerous ways to edgeguard / 2 frame (F-Tilt, D-Smash, N-Air, etc.). Honorable mentions go to , and , since they're also particularily adept at edgeguards / ledgetraps.

I'm surprised no one mentioned Hero's heal spell

TBF, that one is limited (2 times per stock + 1 for each KO). Still though, I remember that one being pretty controversial amongst more competitive people even if it only healed 11 %, partly due to Hero's really explosive potential and RNG in the first place.

Edit:

 

[Munchi]

Hero only has 2 of those per stock while getting an extra Heal per kill, which are 10% each and have a low chance of being rolled. Most Hero players I've seen, myself included, use it solely to manipulate the RNG into rolling something useful more often

I know but it is the only movement whose only function is to heal, so it seems to me that it is the best base we have, all the rest of movements that can heal do more than heal

 

[Pillow]

You forgot the Toxapex

Pex's role kinda shifted away from stall this gen. Admittedly Skarm also has fallen pretty far from his former status as defense king, but him and Bliss have always been the classic stall duo dating all the way back to Gen 4.

It's also potentially dangerous for the healing character since counterplay would in this case be to get the healer off stage and keep the healer there as long as possible. That or gimp / set up a ledgetrap. would be particularily problematic since she can just harass, poke and then edgeguard the healer to smithereens. is another example since he has a lot of options to get people off stage and has numerous ways to edgeguard / 2 frame (F-Tilt, D-Smash, N-Air, etc.). Honorable mentions go to , and , since they're also particularily adept at edgeguards / ledgetraps.



TBF, that one is limited (2 times per stock + 1 for each KO). Still though, I remember that one being pretty controversial amongst more competitive people even if it only healed 11 %, partly due to Hero's really explosive potential making it more difficult to maintain a lead.

Edit:

Well, I'm not sure I would exactly call that an issue. Any playstyle will have its weaknesses. I do agree that a a character fully designed around self-healing would be kind of dumb, but one with a core healing mechanic I think is fine. Personally I would like to see a character with some kind of lifesteal mechanic, not just on one crappy move like Nosferatu, but on normal attacks (perhaps as a temporary buff like Deep Breathing).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Personally I would like to see a character with some kind of lifesteal mechanic, not just on one crappy move like Nosferatu, but on normal attacks (perhaps as a temporary buff like Deep Breathing).

I hate to suggest this, but wouldn't Ragna work? Iirc he has an install that does just that and in BBTag I believe they made life steal his main gimmick by always having it on, but he was frail compared to most of the cast in a game where the cast drops like flies.

 

[Gnateb]

I'm only a little salty that papagenos didn't know I brought up Motoi Sakuraba's FP2 involvement like that first... Only a little...

It doesn't really matter though.

 

[Gengar84]

Pex's role kinda shifted away from stall this gen. Admittedly Skarm also has fallen pretty far from his former status as defense king, but him and Bliss have always been the classic stall duo dating all the way back to Gen 4.


Well, I'm not sure I would exactly call that an issue. Any playstyle will have its weaknesses. I do agree that a a character fully designed around self-healing would be kind of dumb, but one with a core healing mechanic I think is fine. Personally I would like to see a character with some kind of lifesteal mechanic, not just on one crappy move like Nosferatu, but on normal attacks (perhaps as a temporary buff like Deep Breathing).

Did you mean Gen 2 for Skarmbliss? They both originated in Johto but I was always a casual player so I’m not sure what the competitive meta game in Gen 2 looked like. I imagine they were both pretty powerful back then as well judging by how strong they were in my casual battles.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm only a little salty that papagenos didn't know I brought up Motoi Sakuraba's FP2 involvement like that first... Only a little...

It doesn't really matter though.

Don't worry, everything he says was already brought up by other people, I think I've seen someone post his videos here and go "Woah what do you guys think about this?" When it was a topic for days

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Did you mean Gen 2 for Skarmbliss? They both originated in Johto but I was always a casual player so I’m not sure what the competitive meta game in Gen 2 looked like. I imagine they were both pretty powerful back then as well judging by how strong they were in my casual battles.

Starting with Gen 4, all types had both physical and special attacks. (Ice beam is special, Ice punch is physical).
Up until Gen 3, certain types always were physical, and other always were specials.

Example: Ice was considered special in Gen 3, there was absolutely no way to deal physical damage with an Ice move. Ice punch and Ice beam were both considered special.
That's why the metagame changed so much from 3 to 4.

 

[Pillow]

Did you mean Gen 2 for Skarmbliss? They both originated in Johto but I was always a casual player so I’m not sure what the competitive meta game in Gen 2 looked like. I imagine they were both pretty powerful back then as well judging by how strong they were in my casual battles.

"Stall" as an archetype wasn't really called that until Gen 4 which introduced a lot of changes to the battling system, though yeah they're both Gen 2 mons.

I hate to suggest this, but wouldn't Ragna work? Iirc he has an install that does just that and in BBTag I believe they made life steal his main gimmick by always having it on, but he was frail compared to most of the cast in a game where the cast drops like flies.

Yeah I guess he would....but Ragna's also kind of lame :x

 

[Guynamednelson]

Did you mean Gen 2 for Skarmbliss? They both originated in Johto but I was always a casual player so I’m not sure what the competitive meta game in Gen 2 looked like. I imagine they were both pretty powerful back then as well judging by how strong they were in my casual battles.

Skarmbliss didn't develop its reputation until Gen 3/4. The unholy duo in 2 was Skarmkou, Skarmory/Raikou.

 

[SharkLord]

Ok so

what are y’all’s non-Smash predictions for E3?

ill do mine, more focused on Nintendo than others

Xbox:
Uhhhh Tales of Arise? Idk what else

Sony:
FFVIIR Integrade and/or Part 2
again idk what else I forgot they’re not there this year

Nintendo:
CP10 and possibly CP11. IF they announced more DLC or even an Ultimate Encore it would be here as well
More Splatoon 3 info
BOTW2 at last
Bayonetta 3 at last
Something Mario related
Something Kirby related
The triumphant return of F-Zero... I WISH at least
FE4 remake?
More D/P remake info as well as Legends and Unite
N64 and/or GC NSO
XENOBLADE CHRONICLES X DEFINITIVE EDITION PLEASE I BEG YOU NINTENDO AND MONOLITH
PROJECT X ZONE 3/A PXZ SUCCESSOR WITH MORE SMASH-APPEARING CHARACTERS I ALSO PLEAD OF YOU NAMCO AND MONOLITH
and last but certainly not least... THE SUPER SWITCH BABY NO I AM STILL NOT CALLING IT SWITCH “PRO”

...and still no Metroid Prime 4, bye

Something Kirby
New Fire Emblem? Jury's out on if it'd be a new game or a remake
CP10, quite possibly CP11 as well
More elaboration on stuff we already know about, most notably Legends: Arceus, BotW2, and Splatoon 3.
Hopefully Klonoa Encore
New Sonic game?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Some people refuse to give up no matter what is said.

Exactly!

Nobody likes a quitter.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Ok so

what are y’all’s non-Smash predictions for E3?

What I Think We’ll Get:
Kirby Game (Possibly the 3D Game found in Fighters 2)
Something Zelda Related (Possibly BotW 2?)
CP10 and a slim chance of CP11. Honestly no clue who they could be.

What I Want To Get
METROID. ANYTHING METROID PLEASE ILL DO ANYTHING

 

[Momotsuki]

This is kind of random I guess, but this crossed my mind while I was doing the dishes. I had a neat little idea for a little extra in a future update; "Level X" CPUs! The idea is that this CPU would be designed solely to be as difficult for a human to beat as possible, with zero regard for appearing remotely human in its gameplay. Consistently flawless, impossible reaction times and execution across the board.

It wouldn't appear in any modes besides standard Smash, and only when specified by the player. Simply an extra for those that want to see what they can do. You also wouldn't be able to set the default CPU level to X in the ruleset menu, having to manually apply it to a CPU on the fighter select screen.

 

[Nekoo]

This is kind of random I guess, but this crossed my mind while I was doing the dishes. I had a neat little idea for a little extra in a future update; "Level X" CPUs! The idea is that this CPU would be designed solely to be as difficult for a human to beat as possible, with zero regard for appearing remotely human in its gameplay. Consistently flawless, impossible reaction times and execution across the board.

It wouldn't appear in any modes besides standard Smash, and only when specified by the player. Simply an extra for those that want to see what they can do. You also wouldn't be able to set the default CPU level to X in the ruleset menu, having to manually apply it to a CPU on the fighter select screen.

This is called "Pre-launch and pre-patch Ultimate CPU level9"
Where the CPU level 9 was so freaking hard and reading input so much that Nintendo had to patch it and nerf it down within a month of release.

 

[3BitSaurus]

This is called "Pre-launch and pre-patch Ultimate CPU level9"
Where the CPU level 9 was so freaking hard and reading input so much that Nintendo had to patch it and nerf it down within a month of release.

Looking back, maybe this was the very first clue that Nintendo was in talks with SNK.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

This is called "Pre-launch and pre-patch Ultimate CPU level9"
Where the CPU level 9 was so freaking hard and reading input so much that Nintendo had to patch it and nerf it down within a month of release.

Oh boy, unlocking the characters was a gamble sometimes.
Face a level 9 Ridley to unlock him. I managed to defeat him by hiding in the safe house on Norfair when the lava wave was coming.
Good challenge but frustrating to miss a character because of that.

 

[SKX31]

Well, I'm not sure I would exactly call that an issue. Any playstyle will have its weaknesses. I do agree that a a character fully designed around self-healing would be kind of dumb, but one with a core healing mechanic I think is fine. Personally I would like to see a character with some kind of lifesteal mechanic, not just on one crappy move like Nosferatu, but on normal attacks (perhaps as a temporary buff like Deep Breathing).

That's true, I just feel it would be an excessive disadvantage for a character who revolves around healing (the excessiveness is also a reason I'm not in favor of 's current design, but that's another thing). Lifesteal is perfectly fine though, especially on an agressive character like Ragna or someone else in that category.

This is kind of random I guess, but this crossed my mind while I was doing the dishes. I had a neat little idea for a little extra in a future update; "Level X" CPUs! The idea is that this CPU would be designed solely to be as difficult for a human to beat as possible, with zero regard for appearing remotely human in its gameplay. Consistently flawless, impossible reaction times and execution across the board.

It wouldn't appear in any modes besides standard Smash, and only when specified by the player. Simply an extra for those that want to see what they can do. You also wouldn't be able to set the default CPU level to X in the ruleset menu, having to manually apply it to a CPU on the fighter select screen.

This is called "Pre-launch and pre-patch Ultimate CPU level9"
Where the CPU level 9 was so freaking hard and reading input so much that Nintendo had to patch it and nerf it down within a month of release.

Looking back, maybe this was the very first clue that Nintendo was in talks with SNK.

Oh boy, unlocking the characters was a gamble sometimes.
Face a level 9 Ridley to unlock him. I managed to defeat him by hiding in the safe house on Norfair when the lava wave was coming.
Good challenge but frustrating to miss a character because of that.

It was a beautiful time (okay 2 clips each are Melee / PM, but still 2 clips of Ultimate):

Nah but seriously, such a CPU would be a good idea in the context you said TimeSpace - as an extra challenge. Fighting a Level X could be rather annoying, especially if it plays like ESAM (since he's the kind of technical freak who uses Quick Attack as a movement option and has mastered combo-extensing people to ridicolous extents).

 

[Slime Master]

I theorycrafted a RoA character who's main method of killing was landing counters at point. One mechanic I came up with was they could in some way build a meter to gain an extra stock, but start their next stock with significant damage; meter would reset when they lost their stock. The idea was to discourage getting a stock lead and then just not attacking so they can't kill you, while also encouraging making risky plays that can be countered. That's not quite the same thing as healing, but I think if you wanted to make a healing character you'd want to think about it more like that: what does the healing actually do to the character's playstyle and what other traits do you want to complement that?

 

[Sage of Ice]

Ok so

what are y’all’s non-Smash predictions for E3?

• a new Smash character either opens or closes the show, and in keeping with tradition it's not someone i care about
• Zelda news, in one form or another. Breath of the Sequel seems like a safe bet, as does Age of Calamity DLC. optimistically, whatever they show off would be an appetizer for a dedicated 35th anniversary presentation later on
• something for Sploon 3 - a montage of new gear, an introduction to the new pop stars, and a tease of the story
• Pokemon frequently does its own demonstration a bit before E3, but that doesn't rule out an appearance at the big show too. Both probably focus on BDSP, and while i'm not expecting wonders as far as new content I'd love to be proven wrong. if not, there's always Legends: Arceus
• Fire Emblem is there
• that triangle rpg is there
• the Pikmin mobile game gets a proper reveal, explaining game mechanics and showing off cute scenes of Pikmin following you and walking around in AR clips. Somewhere in the video, they sneak in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it shot of some mysterious new pikmin color or enemy type or whatever, and fans go wild with speculation on whether it means Pikmin 4 is still happening please Miyamoto i implore you, i would postpone all my other favorite games just to hear that Pikmin 4 hasn't been forgotten
• the new Call of Shooty is announced; the presenter spends the entire run of the video chowing down on unidentifiable purple and orange steaks

 

[chocolatejr9]

• the new Call of Shooty is announced; the presenter spends the entire run of the video chowing down on unidentifiable purple and orange steaks

I hate that I immediantly got the joke...

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Ok so

what are y’all’s non-Smash predictions for E3?

So, specifically for Nintendo's presentation:

CP 10: Demi-Fiend.
Then actual gameplay of SMT V, and a release date.
A 2d metroid, and maybe gameplay of prime 4.
The rumoured donkey Kong game.
Switch online GB.
Zelda 3d all-stars.
Age of Calamity DLC.
Pokemon gen 4 + legends.
A trailer for BOTW 2.
CP 11: complete wildcard - I have literally no predictions. Maybe Crash?

 

[chocolatejr9]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Permission to make a joke about Knockout City in Smash?

 

[Louie G.]

what are y’all’s non-Smash predictions for E3?

• New Kirby game (abandons the RTDL model)
• A brand new Nintendo IP
• Various Zelda anniversary festivities
• Splatoon 3 info, second trailer
• The rumored “2D Metroid” is finally revealed
• Master Chief Collection comes to Switch
• New Next Level Games project? (Hopefully Punch-Out... this is moreso wishful thinking)
• Also wishful thinking, but it’s about time we see a new WarioWare

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I'm going to make a dumb prediction and say one of our last two characters is going to have an Ike n-air. Based on trends of course.

 

[SKX31]

Ok so

what are y’all’s non-Smash predictions for E3?

Okay, so focusing more on non-Nintendo stuff:

• FIFA, Madden and NHL 22 will be shown off, with improvements and "improvements". Oh and "improvements" that are old features from past games or bug fixes. Then again, EA Sports is 99 % focused on Ultimate Team (so is 2K with myTeam)... EA will also follow up on their other IPs, including those yet to release on the Switch.
• Take2 will feature - any GTA VI is a massive ? and pretty unsafe, additional GTA V or RDR 2 content seem like safer bets. Also, other games of their vein - NBA2K22 likewise will be shown off - likewise with improvements and "improvements".
• A-B will likely show off the next CoD (when will an undersea CoD game come out?!), WoW Classic Burning Crusade, Diablo stuff etc. Overwatch 2 is a major ? since I'm not sure how far things have gone and a lot of info released recently.
• Games like Fall Guys may announce another game-changing season a la Fortnite's Black Hole.
• A corp that people don't expect will show off a big game. As well as what a corp thinks is a big game. Some are going to be actually interesting, others may look like duds.
• PS5 games will feature despite Sony's absence, ranging from Tales of Arise to Lost Soul Aside (probably).
• Ubisoft may announce a new AC, complete with some new non-AC stuff to spice things up a bit. Other IPs like the Division and Rainbow Six will probably feature. Rayman is a ?, and so is Beyond Good and Evil 2.
• Xbox Studios will go all out as usual, with Halo Infinite, Bethesda's offerings, and other projects like Bright Memory Infinite will feature, alongside WORLD PREMIEREs. Game Pass news are also likely to feature. If Game Pass Switch is a done deal, it's 100 % going to feature at E3.

I'm going to make a dumb prediction and say one of our last two characters is going to have an Ike n-air. Based on trends of course.

I'm going to make an equally dumb prediction and say that one of the last two characters will have a surprisingly disjointed / far-reaching B-Air that kills mad early. Again based on trends.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Okay, so focusing more on non-Nintendo stuff:

• FIFA, Madden and NHL 22 will be shown off, with improvements and "improvements". Oh and "improvements" that are old features from past games or bug fixes. Then again, EA Sports is 99 % focused on Ultimate Team (so is 2K with myTeam)... EA will also follow up on their other IPs, including those yet to release on the Switch.
• Take2 will feature - any GTA VI is a massive ? and pretty unsafe, additional GTA V or RDR 2 content seem like safer bets. Also, other games of their vein - NBA2K22 likewise will be shown off - likewise with improvements and "improvements".
• A-B will likely show off the next CoD (when will an undersea CoD game come out?!), WoW Classic Burning Crusade, Diablo stuff etc. Overwatch 2 is a major ? since I'm not sure how far things have gone and a lot of info released recently.
• Games like Fall Guys may announce another game-changing season a la Fortnite's Black Hole.
• A corp that people don't expect will show off a big game. As well as what a corp thinks is a big game. Some are going to be actually interesting, others may look like duds.
• PS5 games will feature despite Sony's absence, ranging from Tales of Arise to Lost Soul Aside (probably).
• Ubisoft may announce a new AC, complete with some new non-AC stuff to spice things up a bit. Other IPs like the Division and Rainbow Six will probably feature. Rayman is a ?, and so is Beyond Good and Evil 2.
• Xbox Studios will go all out as usual, with Halo Infinite, Bethesda's offerings, and other projects like Bright Memory Infinite will feature, alongside WORLD PREMIEREs. Game Pass news are also likely to feature. If Game Pass Switch is a done deal, it's 100 % going to feature at E3.

I'm going to make an equally dumb prediction and say that one of the last two characters will have a surprisingly disjointed / far-reaching B-Air that kills mad early. Again based on trends.

Oh also since you didn’t mention it - well finally see more info on Ruined King and CONV/RGENCE

 

[Ivander]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Permission to make a joke about Knockout City in Smash?

Knock yourself out. turns around

 

[Mushroomguy12]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Permission to make a joke about Knockout City in Smash?

Didn't she ask Nintendo if she could play Samus in a Metroid movie once?

 

[cashregister9]

Ok so

what are y’all’s non-Smash predictions for E3?

I hope for Rune Factory 5 Localization news.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I know this isn't a switch general website/discussion thread BUT Rockstar's Parent Company Take-Two is gonna be at E3 this year. And new content regarding the 2001 game GTA 3 is gonna get revealed soon. Some Rockstar fans think one form of content this could be is GTA 3 on Switch. Thoughts?