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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

Sigran101

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Here's a game, a character from the last 3 games you've played will be the final DLC packs. For me this would be:

Hat Kid
Spongebob (lmao)
Chrono

Spongebob with Spongebob Dream stage coming soon!!!
Mine wouldn't actually be too bad.

Atrorius/Chosen Undead
V (Cyberpunk)
Noctis

Not great, but could be worse.
 

Freduardo

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Here's a game, a character from the last 3 games you've played will be the final DLC packs. For me this would be:

Hat Kid
Spongebob (lmao)
Chrono

Spongebob with Spongebob Dream stage coming soon!!!
okay, last three games I played and one character from each....

Impa (Age of Calamity version. We get an anime swordswoman)

Lakitu (Mario Kart Live)

Dixie Kong (DKC 2)

... well that was easy, the hardest part was picking the age of calamity character.
 

Technomage

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I know I'm late to my own topic, but I'd like to give my list of extra bosses:

All bosses from previous games (as well as stage bosses having more fleshed out variants that function like real bosses; I'd especially like to fight both Mumkar and Metal Face in the same battle)
King Cut Out from DK 64
Andross (in his monkey head and brain forms; possibly even with his Krazoa God face on the back of his monkey head, to emulate his robot head forms)
Grima and Possessed Robin (from FE Awakening)
Rhea (both her human form and dragon form; from FE Three Houses)
Hades (from Kid Icarus)
Game & Watch Octopus
Titan Dweevil (from Pikmin)
Reanimated T-Rex fossil (from Animal Crossing)
King Hippo (from Punch-Out)
Death Egg Robot (from Sonic)
King Galaxian (from Galaxian and Pac-Man World)
Shadow Queen (from Paper Mario The Thousand-Year Door; include Shadow Queen Peach)
Safer Sephiroth
Estark (from Dragon Quest; also with his theme music (specifically the one from DQ9) added)
Gruntilda Winkybunion and Hag-1 (from Banjo-Kazooie; both separate forms in the same boss fight)
Sigma (from Mega Man X)
Giovanni (from Pokemon; he'd be a boss version of Pokemon Trainer)
Imprisoned/Demise (from Zelda Skyward Sword)
Bagular (from Bomberman)
Nemesis (from Resident Evil)
Male and Female N. Tropy (from Crash 4; this is assuming Crash, a very likely and popular DLC candidate, gets in)
Master Xehanort (from Kingdon Hearts; this is assuming Sora, a very likely and popular DLC candidate, gets in)
 
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SpecterFlower

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I mean, SMRPG was a large game at the time. It sold like 2 Million copies. That wasn't far behind Banjo and K Rool's games in terms of sales.
I'm like 3 pages behind (this thread moves so fast) so idk if someone corrected you but

DKC sold 9.3 million without counting ports, it's not really close. with ports it's at 13 million.
 

7NATOR

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So who would you guys consider to be the Smash Speculation's Expected characters, Besides Ryu, Dante, and Crash?
 

Rie Sonomura

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So who would you guys consider to be the Smash Speculation's Expected characters, Besides Ryu, Dante, and Crash?
Judging by which characters are common on prediction lists, I’d also say Monster Hunter, Rex, a Gen 8 Pokémon, Master Chief, and maybe Arle Nadja to an extent
 

Michael the Spikester

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So who would you guys consider to be the Smash Speculation's Expected characters, Besides Ryu, Dante, and Crash?
At the very least a Capcom character. Whether its Dante himself, Chun-Li, or Phoenix Wright is up to debate.

I don't think Monster Hunter is likely anymore given the whole creators fiasco with the Avatars being in crossovers and the monsters themselves being the mascots (Rathalos) notably given MvCI.
 

7NATOR

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Judging by which characters are common on prediction lists, I’d also say Monster Hunter, Rex, a Gen 8 Pokémon, Master Chief, and maybe Arle Nadja to an extent
I'm kind of surprised by these Two. Granted for Chief I imagine people probably believe Steve made him more likely, rather than less likely. I also think it's perhaps possible for a Company to get Two characters in the same pass, But I kind of doubt that, especially with Xbox's France comments about Chief waiting for his invitation. that statement though doesn't say too much

Is Arle really that common? Granted For a Japan based pick I definitely see her more than Reimu Comparatively (I think I may have only Seen Reimu once on a youtube prediction video, perhaps twice), but still
 

Flyboy

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At the very least a Capcom character. Whether its Dante himself, Chun-Li, or Phoenix Wright is up to debate.

I don't think Monster Hunter is likely anymore given the whole creators fiasco with the Avatars being in crossovers and the monsters themselves being the mascots (Rathalos) notably given MvCI.
This source has literally never been sourced reliably and was a rumor that only popped up around MVCI. People repeat it but no one can say why, especially since armor sets and hunters have indeed appeared in other crossovers since.
 

Mapusaurus

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I'm kind of surprised by these Two. Granted for Chief I imagine people probably believe Steve made him more likely, rather than less likely. I also think it's perhaps possible for a Company to get Two characters in the same pass, But I kind of doubt that, especially with Xbox's France comments about Chief waiting for his invitation. that statement though doesn't say too much

Is Arle really that common? Granted For a Japan based pick I definitely see her more than Reimu Comparatively (I think I may have only Seen Reimu once on a youtube prediction video, perhaps twice), but still
dont see her much besides before byleth where paopa genos thought she was getting in.
 

ChunkySlugger72

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Let's be honest. Geno was pretty much a long-shot to begin with.

Both Ridley and K. Rool were long-recurring villains and arch-nemesis' of the protagonists of their franchises and among some of Nintendo's most iconic villains.

Banjo was from one of the best-selling games on the N64 and a popular and iconic game from the N64 games being the protagonist, a well-beloved character from nostalgic fans. He was even on the boxart of N64 with Mario, Link, Donkey Kong, and Pikachu.

Simply put, Geno was a side character whose only appearance was from an almost 25-year-old RPG game and hasn't appeared since. He never really compared to those three.
Thank You !!!

Pretty much took the words out of my mouth word for word any time someone tries to compare him to Banjo-Kazooie, King K. Rool and Ridley, It's really no contest.
 
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CHAMPIONX9

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Sharing again because it was deleted.

My initial prediction was a zelda character, tifa, 2b, and masterchief. Nintendo is a company with financial interests and will serve those interests first. So I looked at the nintendo switch store to get a handle on what was popular, what was being promoted, and what titles were upcoming. There was a lot of final fantasy games in the store, recently having made the port, so i guessed final fantasy was going to be in. It was between sephiroth and tifa since they had done well on popularity polls. I chose tifa because there wasn't much discussion about her and she had beat sephiroth in one of the polls.

I crossed out 2b because while there is an upcoming game for nier, its only playstation; the nintendo switch doesn't support the graphics. Square has another title actually in the switch page which is being well promoted. It's bravely default 2. Bravely default seems like a good series that's not too well known, so I could see that being a factor for being in smash. Smash serves as effective long term advertising. (I didn't chose Bravely Default because it was square, but because it was one of the games being heavily promoted at the time).

Then I crossed out masterchief. I thought he might be possible since he was a huge microsoft character, but being the xbox guy, minecraft is actually bigger in japan than him. Nintendo I think pays a lot of attention to their japanese consumer base, so I am not sure about chief. He was also put in fortnite, and the skins actually made more money than the halo 5 I think.
Ahri seems plausible to me because League of Legends is releasing a new game on the switch: Ruined King. I think she is the most well known out of all the League of Legends characters and seems like a likely candidate for representing the series.

the legend of zelda pick is self explanatory. Age of calamity is a new zelda title, and it features a number of characters to pull from. It would be up to sakurai to decide which he wanted I guess. Would he go for Daruk the heavy weight? Revali the bird? I don't really get sakurail, but I think those might be to his taste. Impa I think also has a good chance being a ninja and all.
 

Cosmic77

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Geno would be more comparable to Banjo if he were the star of his own game and wasn't linked to an existing franchise.

He's not though. He's a side character in a Mario game, which is a franchise that has PLENTY of recurring characters to choose from. That's an issue Banjo didn't have, even if he was just as dormant as Geno.
 

ChunkySlugger72

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I'm like 3 pages behind (this thread moves so fast) so idk if someone corrected you but

DKC sold 9.3 million without counting ports, it's not really close. with ports it's at 13 million.
"Donkey Kong Country 2" also sold over 5 million units while "Donkey Kong Country 3 sold 3.5 million".

Not to mention "Donkey Kong 64" was over 5 million.

It's not even fair fight, While King K. Rool has been in hibernation for a long time, He still made his mark, Geno had nowhere near the impact on the Mario franchise than King K. Rool had on the DK franchise.
 
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ForsakenM

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The challenge was characters from the last three games I played, not what characters I think will be in. Besides, I want a gen 8 Pokemon because Falinks is awesome.

Also, more a point of confusion but how is Sephiroth "casual"? Minecraft you can pick up and play, Final Fantasy 7 doesn't open up until half way through the first disk.
This is a confusion of the term casual, because words mean more than one thing.

You have casual gamers who play more chill games that are generally more simple and tend to appeal to people who either play games very little or younger gamers, though this isn't always the case or result of course.

Then you have casual vs Smash fandom, which means that I'm referring to people who don't eat, sleep and breathe Smash since Melee or earlier. There are people who just play Smash occasionally and really don't have character wishes for Smash or have ones that are completely different from what the Smash fandom is asking for. This is why I say Steve and Sephiroth are more casual, or maybe a better term as public audience, picks. Steve didn't have near as much serious traction as a Smash fandom pick up until mid-2019 and even then it's hard to tell how much was serious and how much was trolling considering the nature of the the internet and how crazy people get when it comes to Smash characters.

However, I acknowledge that he had real fan demand, but when you compare that to the likes of characters like Banjo, Geno, Isaac, Sora, Bandanna Dee, Dixie and so many more (a good chunk of which got in the base roster, what with Ridley and K. Rool) have been requested in various volumes of intensity and constantly talked about by the Smash community for over a decade...Steve really doesn't match up with that. Add in that it was clearly put in because it would appeal to the audience of the 'best-selling-game-ever TM' and it's clear the inclusion was part of a negotiation to get Banjo and Microsoft wanted Steve's inclusion because money and public appeal, to which Nintendo would agree.

Sephiroth was something that was talked about a fair share during the Brawl days, what with mods and stuff, but Geno was the only character really drummed up about during that time because not only was he loved but a lot of people swore he was the only possible Square character because he was technically a Mario character. Fast forward eight years or so and Cloud is a thing, but you didn't really see the hype for Sephiroth take off. It was all about Waluigi, K. Rool, Ridley, wanting returning veterans, some Geno and some Isaac and some Ashley in there with a whole bunch of Shovel Knight. Just like no one was talking about Travis Touchdown then, no one was talking about Sephiroth.

Suddenly, here we are, another very popular character to a more public gaming audience and the Smash fandom is left scratching their heads and wondering where the other characters who likely placed high on the Smash Ballot are at. This is what I mean by casual picks, though I suppose I will transition to the phrase 'public picks' because it gets the point across a but better. Joker, Byleth and Terry (to some extent) are also good example of this, and Min Min would be if ARMS had been a little more successful and maintained it's popularity. Other examples of public picks, which are just characters that appeal to people who are religious Smash cultists like us who come onto a forum frequently to discuss who we think is coming and who we want, would be:

  • Jonesy from Fortnite
  • Impostor from Among Us
  • Chosen Undead from Dark Souls, or any main character from a recent Souls-esq game like Sekiro
  • Any champion from League of Legends
  • Someone from Gears of War who is popular
  • A Fall Guy from Fall Guys
  • Main character from Ghost of Tsushima
  • Ellie from The Last Of Us, as polarizing as that would be
  • V from Cyberpunk 2077
  • Any named-character from any Call of Duty, the more recent the release the more of a public pick it becomes
  • Whoever the main character in Shin Megami Tensei 5 will be
  • Arthur Morgan from Red Dead Redemption 2
  • Kratos from the new God of War, especially if he gets a design unique to Ragnorok
  • Tracer or D.va from Overwatch
  • Any character from World of Warcraft
  • Any main character from Grand Theft Auto V
  • Dovah-Kiin from Skyrim
  • Aloy from Horizon
  • A character from Hearthstone, if that's even possible
  • Heavy, or any other character for that matter, from Team Fortress 2
  • Geralt from Witcher
  • Any main character from any Assassin's Creed
  • A character from Warframe
  • A character from Valorant
  • A character from Genshin Impact, heaven forbid
  • A character from Dragalia Lost
  • Any main character from Bravely Default 2
Honestly I could go on but I'm sick of thinking about characters like this getting into Smash. TL;DR: If the Smash fandom isn't seriously talking and considering it, that characters gets in and 95% of the gaming community collectively loses their **** at the announcement but Smash fans are left going 'Literally who asked for this, this isn't anywhere near the top of the list of Smash picks!' then generally speaking it can be considered a public appeal pick. The more the Smash fandom genuinely wants a character, like Crash, Geno, Sora, Rayman, Waluigi or Shantae to where you see the Smash fandom talking about it and them ranking high in polls and there is genuine demand from the Smash community for that character, the farther they move from a public appeal pick and the more they become a Smash fandom pick. This shines even more if they only reason they really 'have a chance' or are talked about is because of the Smash community, like Geno or Waluigi.

At one point Master Chief or Doom guy would have been public picks, but their demand in the Smash fandom has risen to much they are no longer considered as such. The only reason that Steve really fits a public pick when he had so much demand is that Minecraft's public appeal really overshadows the amount of demand he had. EVERYONE (obviously not everyone, but essentially everyone) plays Minecraft, so the portion of the Smash fandom that legitimately wanted him becomes deathly white in comparison.
 

ChunkySlugger72

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Geno would be more comparable to Banjo if he were the star of his own game and wasn't linked to an existing franchise.

He's not though. He's a side character in a Mario game, which is a franchise that has PLENTY of recurring characters to choose from. That's an issue Banjo didn't have, even if he was just as dormant as Geno.
Imagine if Banjo's only major appearance ever was in "Diddy Kong Racing" and for whatever reason he became the fan favorite from that game and fans were clamoring for him to be in Smash for that reason alone.

But Banjo-Kazooie were able to make a name for themselves with 2 big games during the N64 era and quickly established themselves as "Nintendo All-Stars".

While their time in the spotlight was cut short, They left their mark during their time with Nintendo and it's amazing to see them comeback full circle via Smash.

f7907cdd-935b-41b9-a21f-74e79ef78456.jpg
 
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Dinoman96

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Geno would be more comparable to Banjo if Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie never happened and Banjo remained as just one of the many racers in Diddy Kong Racing and somehow still managed to have a fervant fanbase that wanted him playable in Smash as a DK universe character lol

edit: LMFAO got ninja'd by ChunkySlugger up there
 
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ForsakenM

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Geno would be more comparable to Banjo if he were the star of his own game and wasn't linked to an existing franchise.

He's not though. He's a side character in a Mario game, which is a franchise that has PLENTY of recurring characters to choose from. That's an issue Banjo didn't have, even if he was just as dormant as Geno.
Man, I'm tired of seeing this.

Straight from Wikipedia, not that they are the gods of fact and logic or anything:

"A supporting character is a character in a narrative that is not the focus of the primary storyline, but appears or is mentioned in the story enough to be more than just a minor character or a cameo appearance."

Would you call Tifa, Barret or Aerith side characters? No, but some would say Biggs, Jessie and Wedge would be considered that (though FF7R may beg to differ later on, who knows).

Would you call Miles Tails Prower or Knuckles a side character? Of course not!

Then you cannot call Geno that either.

Geno suffering from having less development than say Mallow or Bowser doesn't make him less of a main character. Fun fact: the ENTIRE PLOT OF SMRPG is revealed to Mario and Mallow BY Geno, because the MAIN PLOT OF SMRPG is HIS entire goal. Mario and Mallow where just waltzing around and going to hunt for Peach and had no idea what the Star Pieces were or what they meant even after collecting the first one, but suddenly saving Peach becomes a side plot and protecting the wishes of the world at large becomes the main one ALL BECAUSE OF GENO.

Geno was more than ready (if maybe not fully able, who knows) to go about this mission himself, but he gets saved by Mario and since Mario is the legend that he is he decides to fill them in on what is going on so that the two can help him fix Star Road and save all the world's wishes. He's a part of the party, playable, has a couple of moments after his introduction and only leaves the party and the narrative WHEN THE GAME IS OVER AND YOU SAVED THE WORLD.

This is Geno's story more than it is anyone elses, but people see Mario and their brains suddenly shrink for a moment and they say 'MaRiO iS tHe MaIn ChArAcTeR bEcAuSe He'S mArIo' forgetting that less popular or well-known characters can also be main characters. People who are famous in a story's universe can show up and still be side characters so long as the narrative doesn't focus around them extensively.
 
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SKX31

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View attachment 297659
bottom text

no really tho why did they think writing it that way was a good idea
While it looks like an edit, I could certainly imagine it might be a real picture. Because 80s / 90s video game mags drifted sometimes into so much edgy XTREME-ness that one could cut diamonds with the edge. Here's one example:

wholesome fun.png


An actual ad in Electronic Gaming Monthly issue 78 (January 1996, an issue where they previewed the Ultra 64). Here's a link to the PDF, the ad in question is page 30-31.

The "More wholesome fun" bit is the best part though. No wonder the 3D0 crashed and burned.
 
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PeridotGX

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Man, I'm tired of seeing this.

Straight from Wikipedia, not that they are the gods of fact and logic or anything:

"A supporting character is a character in a narrative that is not the focus of the primary storyline, but appears or is mentioned in the story enough to be more than just a minor character or a cameo appearance."

Would you call Tifa, Barret or Aerith side characters? No, but some would say Biggs, Jessie and Wedge would be considered that (though FF7R may beg to differ later on, who knows).

Would you call Miles Tails Prower or Knuckles a side character? Of course not!

Then you cannot call Geno that either.

Geno suffering from having less development than say Mallow or Bowser doesn't make him less of a main character. Fun fact: the ENTIRE PLOT OF SMRPG is revealed to Mario and Mallow BY Geno, because the MAIN PLOT OF SMRPG is HIS entire goal. Mario and Mallow where just waltzing around and going to hunt for Peach and had no idea what the Star Pieces were or what they meant even after collecting the first one, but suddenly saving Peach becomes a side plot and protecting the wishes of the world at large becomes the main one ALL BECAUSE OF GENO.

Geno was more than ready (if maybe not fully able, who knows) to go about this mission himself, but he gets saved by Mario and since Mario is the legend that he is he decides to fill them in on what is going on so that the two can help him fix Star Road and save all the world's wishes. He's a part of the party, playable, has a couple of moments after his introduction and only leaves the party and the narrative WHEN THE GAME IS OVER AND YOU SAVED THE WORLD.

This is Geno's story more than it is anyone elses, but people see Mario and their brains suddenly shrink for a moment and they say 'MaRiO iS tHe MaIn ChArAcTeR bEcAuSe He'S mArIo' forgetting that less popular or well-known characters can also be main characters. People who are famous in a story's universe can show up and still be side characters so long as the narrative doesn't focus around them extensively.
Grovyle from PMD: Explorers is about as important to his game as Geno is to his, and Grovyle's definitely a side character.
 

RetrogamerMax

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I'm like 3 pages behind (this thread moves so fast) so idk if someone corrected you but

DKC sold 9.3 million without counting ports, it's not really close. with ports it's at 13 million.
Plus the whole DKC trilogy is in the top 10 best selling SNES games even the overlook and underrated DKC3. DKC was almost as big as Mario during the Rareware era and probably even bigger than Zelda during that time since the DKC games outsold A Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, Ocarina of Time, and Majora's Mask at least in their first releases when DKC was more relevant and was with Rare.
 

3BitSaurus

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TheCJBrine

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yeah I think the "pulsating rod" thing is from the player's guide or something, I don't have one myself though, that's just what I remember someone saying.


Also, I too think Geno isn't comparable to Banjo or K. Rool in terms of impact and stuff, though his fanbase is still considerable it seems even if not as big, and tbh I don't really see why it all matters at the end of the day, it's just fun crossover videogame and Geno still got more than some other characters will including big famous characters anyway. It's disappointing he didn't get to be a fighter, but maybe he can next time, and hopefully people will consider pushing for a new SMRPG without bringing up Smash some of the time, considering the possibility of what Square and maybe Nintendo think as that ChunLluri leak said.

I also don't understand the "just a side character" thing, he didn't seem like "just a side character" when I played SMRPG. The ending even revolves around him before the credits, and his star spirit still appears at the end of the credits.

Grovyle from PMD: Explorers is about as important to his game as Geno is to his, and Grovyle's definitely a side character.
I haven't played that game, but based on the plot, he doesn't seem like "just a side character" either unless we're going by "any character that isn't the main/player character," though that makes some of the "side character" arguments I've seen sound kinda dumb (outside of comparing him to Banjo and K. Rool which the argument makes sense in that case). I know he's not the main man (that's Mario), but he's still a major character as is Grovyle.
 
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TwiceEXE

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Would you call Tifa, Barret or Aerith side characters? No, but some would say Biggs, Jessie and Wedge would be considered that (though FF7R may beg to differ later on, who knows).
Geno is more of a Red XIII than those characters. And yes, I would say both Red XIII and Geno are side characters. If you have a different opinion, that's fine.

But a side rose by any other name smells just as sweet. Whether you consider Geno ancillary or a main character is pretty irrelevant compared to the fact that he's from a dead IP that both Nintendo and Square seem to have no interest in reviving. That part is far more important to his lack of fighter status in Smash than any nomenclature about what his role is.
 

Miles of SmashWiki

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Something I've been thinking about: I miss the fact that SSB4 had a handful of standalone DLC stages. Only one was new, Super Mario Maker, but there were also returning stages brought back. We got Small Battlefield, which in my mind is analogous to getting the Miiverse stage on Wii U as a free bonus, but I would happily throw a few bucks at the Smash team to get Woolly World or Pac-Maze back. Hell, I'd even pay for Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2.
 

SpecterFlower

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Plus the whole DKC trilogy is in the top 10 best selling SNES games even the overlook and underrated DKC3. DKC was almost as big as Mario during the Rareware era and probably even bigger than Zelda during that time since the DKC games outsold A Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, Ocarina of Time, and Majora's Mask at least in their first releases when DKC was more relevant and was with Rare.
Not to Dunk on Geno further but let's not forget Returns managed to sell 9.4 million combined on wii and 3ds, even if K rool wasn't apart of that game he was still more publicly visible just by being linked to it.
 

Idon

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Who honestly cares what Geno's narrative role in the story is. We've had plenty of Mario characters that have had "side" roles in Smash like Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Daisy, and Piranha Plant. More if you don't count spinoff titles like Luigi, Peach, and Dr. Mario.

Clearly what's preventing Geno from making a Smash appearance isn't related to how close he is to Mario in game importance, because in a franchise called "Super Mario" I doubt anyone else would come remotely close.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Something I've been thinking about: I miss the fact that SSB4 had a handful of standalone DLC stages. Only one was new, Super Mario Maker, but there were also returning stages brought back. We got Small Battlefield, which in my mind is analogous to getting the Miiverse stage on Wii U as a free bonus, but I would happily throw a few bucks at the Smash team to get Woolly World or Pac-Maze back. Hell, I'd even pay for Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2.
I think we’ll be getting stand-alone stages in free updates if small battlefield is an indicator
 
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