Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Man, you could have much more easily said "Samurai are trained for combat and are typically shown in slow paced fights that end in minimal blows while ninjas are typically speedy little combo ****ers"

Yeah, but ninjas being speedy little combo ****ers isn't really explaining the ninja mindset, and Perkilator specifically mentionned samurai and ninja being different at the core, and I wanted to explain that "core" because he didn't.

In real life, they're far more pragmatist than "speedy combo ****ers", because why waste time doing little hits when you could go for the big fatal blow or shoot them from afar to minimize the amount of danger you're in?

So basically, I'm saying I have gripes about how ninjas are shown in fighting games because it's historically innacurate

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah, but ninjas being speedy little combo ****ers isn't really explaining the ninja mindset, and Perkilator specifically mentionned samurai and ninja being different at the core, and I wanted to explain that "core" because he didn't.

In real life, they're far more pragmatist than "speedy combo ****ers", because why waste time doing little hits when you could go for the big fatal blow or shoot them from afar to minimize the amount of danger you're in?

So basically, I'm saying I have gripes about how ninjas are shown in fighting games because it's historically innacurate

That's because ninjas are made out to be so much cooler than 'farmers who became assassins' or whatever their whole origin was

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That's because ninjas are made out to be so much cooler than 'farmers who became assassins' or whatever their whole origin was

That's basically what it is, which is a shame because the idea of a farmer becoming a deadly assassin using their tools and crafting stuff based on what they know about farming is also pretty dope.

But with all the stuff Hayabusa has in his game and how rushing in is pretty much the dumbest thing you can do, he'd have something a bit more faithful to the ninja mindset while still looking badass doing it even though he'd likely not be a "speedy combo ******", or at least not as much as the other ninjas in Smash.

So in a way, Al-kimiya's "How does being a samurai and a ninja make them different?" question is more justified, since media tends to portray ninjas in the same way as samurais; people who are highly trained in an almost school-like way and some of them even doing so for the honor of a country rather than farmers who learned how to best use the land their on and the tools they have in order to survive.

 

[PeridotGX]

The Masked Man, from Mother Three.

 

[chocolatejr9]

The Masked Man, from Mother Three.

No, we're not getting Mother 3 localised for its anniversary. We've been over this...

 

[DarthEnderX]

This was leaked in the giga leak too iirc, honestly, a Smash trailer in this style sounds more fun than the usual 'courtroom and then Nick presents his Smash invite' idea everyone throws out

Why can't Teppen just be a fighting game...

Edit: Oh, wait, Phoenix isn't even a Hero in this pack? Weak.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Why can't Teppen just be a fighting game...

Card game is a better format for mobile devices, that's why.

I do wish Capcom would make its own King of Fighters kind of game though.

 

[Gengar84]

The Masked Man, from Mother Three.

I’ve never played the Mother series other than running around and getting lost in the first town of Earthbound. Just going by design alone, I think Giygas would be really cool. It gives me serious Mewtwo vibes and Mewtwo is great.

 

[Ivander]

Why can't Teppen just be a fighting game...

Edit: Oh, wait, Phoenix isn't even a Hero in this pack? Weak.

He's an "EX Skin" for Chun-Li and he'll share the same Hero Arts effects as Chun-Li, but will have all-new art for his Hero Arts, voice lines and a new theme. So he will technically be playable.

That said, skins in Teppen have an abysmal drop rate and you pretty much have to rely on RNG to get them. They did recently add a new "Soul Shop" that can allow you to get skins(albeit for 100,000 Souls, and Souls are also used for making cards, getting new music from the shop), but so far, only the palette swap skins are on the shop. Neither Evil Ryu or Morrigan's Night Butterfly costume were put on the shop, so I don't know what they'll do with Phoenix Wright. I'm hoping that since he's a character that he'll be put on the Shop, but I can't say that will be the case.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'm sorry what.

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[PeridotGX]

No, we're not getting Mother 3 localised for its anniversary. We've been over this...

I never said that was happening (it isn't). I merely mentioned the Masked Man from Mother Three.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm sorry what.

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He's joking. He was constantly pestered about "WHEN'S MOTHER 3" and he's joking that he had it all along.

 

[SharkLord]

Reimu is definitely popular, but also very very divisive. Discussion about her literally never ends, people nonstop talking about Touhou representation in Smash all the time.

In other words, nothing's different aside from geographical position

 

[Gengar84]

I never said that was happening (it isn't). I merely mentioned the Masked Man from Mother Three.

Oh, if we’re just naming random characters then Zegram Ghart from Rogue Galaxy!

 

[Mushroomguy12]

You're breaking my heart Nintendo.

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[Gorgonzales]

I'm sorry what.

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Reggie is a legend.
It'd be hilarious if he just straight up streamed the fan translation of Mother 3 this weekend. The ultimate power move

 

[Flyboy]

You're breaking my heart Nintendo.

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Putting the series into perspective made me get why they feel that way, even if I don't agree with it. F-Zero as a series has always been a tech demo first - "here's Mode 7!" "here's 60FPS on the N64!" "here's an arcade experience in your home!" "we can push the boundaries and make things even better than SNES...on a Game Boy!" - which means now that they're not really focusing on technology it's going to be hard for them to bring it back since they don't see it as just a cool racing IP. I wish they would bring it back, of course, because I love cool racing titles, but with Fast Racing NEO on Switch and Wipeout Omega Collection on PS4, the futuristic racing genre is sewn up to a degree.

It's a struggle because through all this they've managed to make a cool and interesting universe of characters and locations, so an action-adventure or Yakuza-style Captain Falcon game with racing segments would be amazing, but again maybe they just don't see the money in it...who knows.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Reggie is a legend.
It'd be hilarious if he just straight up streamed the fan translation of Mother 3 this weekend. The ultimate power move

Nintendo: Emulators are harmful to our business.

Reggie:

 

[Guynamednelson]

You're breaking my heart Nintendo.

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Didn't they already use this excuse?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Didn't they already use this excuse?

Hey, if it's still a problem, it's still a problem. Sometimes, it really is that simple.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Putting the series into perspective made me get why they feel that way, even if I don't agree with it. F-Zero as a series has always been a tech demo first - "here's Mode 7!" "here's 60FPS on the N64!" "here's an arcade experience in your home!" "we can push the boundaries and make things even better than SNES...on a Game Boy!" - which means now that they're not really focusing on technology it's going to be hard for them to bring it back since they don't see it as just a cool racing IP. I wish they would bring it back, of course, because I love cool racing titles, but with Fast Racing NEO on Switch and Wipeout Omega Collection on PS4, the futuristic racing genre is sewn up to a degree.

It's a struggle because through all this they've managed to make a cool and interesting universe of characters and locations, so an action-adventure or Yakuza-style Captain Falcon game with racing segments would be amazing, but again maybe they just don't see the money in it...who knows.

They could still use F-zero as a tech demo. It would be a great game to show the power of the switch pro or the next gen Nintendo console.

But seriously, I think the fact that Nintendo don't want to make a new F-zero for the lack of idea is just a big misunderstanding of why fans want F-zero back in the first place. Nobody wants a new F-zero to have some big gimmick or something, we just want to play F-zero on a modern console. At the very least they could just remaster F-zero GX on switch with better graphics. That's really all we want: play the game on a modern console. Why do I need to go on Ebay and pay 100$ and more to play this game? It's just frustrating because I would say GX is easily one of the best Nintendo game period. It's truly an amazing game it's so sad to see it stuck on a old console.

 

[SKX31]

That's because ninjas are made out to be so much cooler than 'farmers who became assassins' or whatever their whole origin was

That's basically what it is, which is a shame because the idea of a farmer becoming a deadly assassin using their tools and crafting stuff based on what they know about farming is also pretty dope.

That's the case with both ninja and samurai: popular imagination / folklore as well as later works of fiction gave them either legendary or supernatural feats, thus they were elevated to almost mythical figures. Especially if a work of fiction romantizes a past period (like later tales set in the Sengoku period, when both the samurai and ninja were active).

Knights also got that treatment in the western European context, as well as the hashshashin / assassins. They're not entirely analogous to each other because Medieval / early modern France and Japan were two pretty damn different places that didn't know of each other (much), But still, there are some parralels: both knights and samurai were expected to be "ideal noble warriors" in a sense, while the assassins / ninja legends arose partly because they were anonymous, but effective enough to inspire folklore.

In other words, nothing's different aside from geographical position

Hey, according to a tournament's staff member we EU players are penguins:

And yet we still talk about Reimu. So in other words you're 100 % correct.

 

[Dinoman96]

It's pretty much the same **** with Star Fox, just viewed as more of a gimmicky toy to show off graphics/controllers than treated like an actual game series.

Though at least F-Zero went out on a high note with GX whereas SF continues to wallop on the dirt.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's pretty much the same **** with Star Fox, just viewed as more of a gimmicky toy to show off graphics/controllers than treated like an actual game series.

Though at least F-Zero went out on a high note with GX whereas SF continues to wallop on the dirt.

I mean, GX wasn't actually the final game, that would be Climax, a Japan only GBA game

 

[Dinoman96]

I mean, GX wasn't actually the final game, that would be Climax, a Japan only GBA game

It was still like the last major console game the series ever got, so whatever good enough lol

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It was still like the last major console game the series ever got, so whatever good enough lol

I'd say it's actually worse cause it means people outright don't know that GX wasn't the last one, it being seen as the best in the series just happens to have that narrative, like how people assume that Banjo only ever had 3 games

 

[Dinoman96]

I'd say it's actually worse cause it means people outright don't know that GX wasn't the last one, it being seen as the best in the series just happens to have that narrative, like how people assume that Banjo only ever had 3 games

In that case I guess that's just the issue of handheld games not being quite as visible as full fledged console ones, and also in the case of Banjo and F-Zero, them not even getting true global releases thus obscuring them even further (Climax only came out in Japan and Grunty's Revenge/Banjo Pilot never came out in eastern regions).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In that case I guess that's just the issue of handheld games not being quite as visible as full fledged console ones, and also in the case of Banjo and F-Zero, them not even getting true global releases thus obscuring them even further (Climax only came out in Japan and Grunty's Revenge/Banjo Pilot never came out in eastern regions).

The GBA sold almost twice as much as the Gamecube's entire life cycle of 21 milliin if we exclusively look at the US, not to mention that the GBA holds many beloved classics, it's dishonest as hell to blame the system for this I'm afraid

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Wait, I must ask:

When I looked up stuff for my recent Min Min post I noticed another YouTuber - FORESTちゃんねる. What struck me about that account in particular is that they who operate the account* use Reimu / Marisa heads and text-to-speech. When "Marisa" plays Smash "she" usually goes with a Yellow Kirby, "Reimu" instead uses... and . For example:

They discovered this fun interaction rather recently:

Has that account (+ other more famous Japanese YouTubers etc.) weighed in on speculation? And if so has that impacted speculation? Because I'm pretty sure that people like Alpharad and other Western YouTubers have had their impact on speculation over here due to them lifting up specific characters and what not.

*(I'm using they since they've played multiplayer games together as "Reimu" and "Marisa", like Kirby Superstar.)

Also:

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This style of videos are called Yukkuri commentary videos.
It's not a thing just for Smash, Yukkuri are major part of Japanese internet culture in general.
I made some posts about this before, and this is mostly why Japanese Smash speculators consider Touhou rep in the first place.

What's amazing about Touhou is that it succeeded generation shift perfectly.

https://togetter.com/li/1410643
This article just got buzzed in Japan recently. It's about parents confusing about their kids finding Touhou and attached to the characters so much thanks to YouTube and Yukkuri.
As you may know, Minecraft is huge in Japan especially among kids and if you crawl Japanese Minecraft videos on YouTube, you'll notice that almost half of them are with Yukkuri commentaries. And not only that, Yukkuri are literally everywhere. You can watch Yukkuri playing with toys kids want, you can hear everyday news and explanations from Yukkuri, you can learn arithmetic or history or whatever from Yukkuri.
Dojin people are saying that so many elementary kids are now coming to Touhou conventions and Touhou stores in Akihabara are full of kids and their parents so old typical otaku are running away just not to get into any troubles.

Touhou is holding a character popularity poll every year and the amount of votes from teenagers is big.
They are late teen to early 20s right now. I do think Touhou rep matches with the major volume of Smash consumers in Japan.
http://tateito1.blog48.fc2.com/blog-entry-2592.html
https://togetter.com/li/1074143

Yukkuri is really a thing on YouTube probably more than people overseas recognize. Yukkuri videos are literally everywhere in any genre.
Try type in "スマブラ ゆっくり" on YouTube search bar than you find out how much they're earning views.
I think autocompletion of the combination of these words with ゆっくり (Yukkuri) might tell you more. 解説 (Explanation), 実況 (Commentary), 歴史 (History), 科学(Science), 事件 (Incidents), 時事 (News), 茶番 (Farce), 旅行 (Travels), 料理 (Cookings), 朗読 (Readings), レビュー (Reviews) and such.

So to answer your question, it's not those SmashTubers impacted on speculation for Reimu. The whole trend of Yukkuri surrounding kids is the main reason. Hence people are guessing the case of Nintendo approaches to Touhou more than ever. Doujin leak and ZUN's interview came after.
If you were asking for any impacts made by YouTubers on specific characters' speculation, than there are none from what I can see. To be blunt, it always struck me as peculiar seeing sometimes people lifting up famous YouTubers' comment as like some sort of "evidence" for certain characters to come to Smash.

 

[Flyboy]

Maximum Velocity and GP Legend were great, at that. Really fun games. It's a shame that people don't remember them as much. I agree that I would just like a GX rerelease or something, but again, from Nintendo's perspective I can understand why they do (or don't do) what they do - I just don't agree with it.

 

[Speed Weed]

Maximum Velocity and GP Legend were great, at that. Really fun games. It's a shame that people don't remember them as much. I agree that I would just like a GX rerelease or something, but again, from Nintendo's perspective I can understand why they do (or don't do) what they do - I just don't agree with it.

Maximum Velocity not being remembered as much is a tragedy, none of the console F-Zero games have a character nearly as good as Alexander O'Neil

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Huh, I thought Cinderace was genuinely wanted, seeing as it's the most pushed starter and all. Octoling being popular is kinda understandable too, since Splatoon is one of Nintendo's most successful new IPs in years.

I'm surprised at Reimu being "divisive" and Sakura being "unseen". I would think these characters would be more popular among japanese speculators, do you have any idea why it's like that?

Arle being popular doesn't surprise me though, I remember seeing her in top 10 polls from Japan all the way back in the base game. If I'm not mistaken, Puyo is literally one of Sega's best sellers, at least in Japan. The point about Kiryu kinda makes sense, even if I don't think it would be a roadblock in the end.

As for Cybuster, Gespenst and Fighter Roar... uh, is it bad if I have absolutely no clue who those are? I'm surprised to see you list them as discussed Bamco reps and not a Souls rep, Tales rep or even Nightmare.

Finally for western picks, Chief and Doom Slayer not being discussed too much anymore makes sense, since we already have a Microsoft rep in this pass. As for Rayman, this literally is nothing new to me even as a Rayman supporter lol.

Well, the popularity of Sakura Wars wasn't that huge anymore to begin with for the past decade, then Shin Sakura Taisen and Sakura Kakumei really killed it.
Also, the demanders of "animuswordfightergirlu other than Fire Emblemu" were peacefully raised to the skies all thanks to Pyra/Mythra.

 

[PeridotGX]

Apparently the biggest difficulty in Brawl character creation is creating good animations...

But what if I made a character who would have intentionally choppy animations to begin with?

 

[Peripuff]

From the context of the question & answer, he's clearly referring to the 6 of the current pass; not some 6 total still left. I know you're saying that you're not putting much faith into it and could be wrong, but you're still putting hope into it. This is a definitive answer. Nothing fishy; nothing hiding. This pass is the last according to his answer here.

...I mean, the context is clearly "I made 6 more characters for this pass."

It's the same answer in the end. He doesn't need to say it differently to get the point across. There's 6 character packs and that's it.

People keep asking the same thing, about there being more characters beyond the pass. His answer is the same and remains it, even to this day. Repeating it hasn't been effective, but it is just what he meant the first time. If anything. at most there was a misunderstanding that he meant 6 physical characters instead of packs(as Pyra and Mythra are separate characters but one pack, just like previous transformation characters), but that's already cleared up via the site alone. Frankly, I wish they asked better questions, like if Alex will get an amiibo(unlike alt characters, she's literally listed as a part of the full character pack, so... who knows).

Believe me when I say that I have absolutely no hope for any more DLC beyond FP2; however, when the wording is near identical to a previous interview that happened a year ago, in the interest of ensuring we're not misinterpreting any piece of information for discussion, it's hard not to question the recency of the article's Famitsu column source. The article itself says nothing of which Famitsu column it is talking about, and I have also found no other sources discussing a recently released Famitsu column where Sakurai said this specifically recently.

I am mostly being nitpicky, I know that Sakurai has said several times that FP2 is the end and I definitely believe him, but I just want to note that there is reason to believe that this Famitsu column, in particular, is not recent. Keep in mind this is (and the article even states this) a Famitsu column, which means (from what I understand at least) that Sakurai was not being interviewed, he simply wrote this up on his own.

 

[SKX31]

This style of videos are called Yukkuri commentary videos.
It's not a thing just for Smash, Yukkuri are major part of Japanese internet scene in general.
I made some posts about this before, and this is mostly why Japanese Smash speculators consider Touhou rep in the first place.


So to answer your question, it's not those SmashTubers impacted on speculation for Reimu. The whole trend of Yukkuri surrounding kids is the main reason. Hence people are guessing the case of Nintendo approaches to Touhou more than ever. Doujin leak and ZUN's interview came after.
If you were asking for any impacts made by YouTubers on specific characters' speculation, than there are none from what I can see. To be blunt, it always struck me as peculiar seeing sometimes people lifting up famous YouTubers' comment as like some sort of "evidence" for certain characters to come to Smash.

Ah, gotcha. Most of the time when text-to-speech is used in Western-made vids it's usually a character within a webseries (The Warhammer 40K comedy webseries "If the Emperor had a text-to-speech device" is built around the idea to name an example).

I mentioned Alpharad in particular since he hard-commited to speculation:

(Video posted around the time Ultimate released, weeks before TGA 2018 and Joker's reveal.)

That video did have an effect on the (Western) speculation scene since he made a sequel vid 4 months later and commented "and somehow, everyone thinks I'm a predicting madman" (for mentioning Joker). It's certainly an interesting difference between the Western and Japanese scenes.

Apparently the biggest difficulty in Brawl character creation is creating good animations...

But what if I made a character who would have intentionally choppy animations to begin with?

Sakurai already beat you to the punch:

...Where do I even begin with this character? Or this move?

Spoiler: For those curious about this moves' details

• Comes out Frame 3 (1/20th of a second) so you gotta predict it practically.
• The ROB can interrupt it after 1/4 of a second with another Down Tilt.
• Can be spammed on shield with little risk thanks to its speed and reach.
• Can start or continue comboes. Especially if the opponent's hit into a Gyro.
• Can trip occassionally.

/rant.

 

[cothero]

Random thinking here. I still think that a gen 8 Pokémon rep is pretty possible (unfortunatelly). Of all options, tho ones that seems more natural to me are Ciderace, Urshifu (both forms) and Zacian/Zamazenta. In Zacian/Zamazenta case, they could work like Pyra/Mythra, being two characters in one. The same could work to Urshifu, but the Zacian/Zamazenta duo idea seems much more appealing to me, changing between Zacian (attack) and Zamazenta (defense).

Also, it would be cool to have more four-legged characters in smash alongside Duck Hunt.

 

[7NATOR]

I mean, since the Japanese side of Smash fandom was brought up, I got to ask

Do you think we will get another character that majorly has it's popularity in Japan?

I would say we already got Sephiroth and Pyra/Mythra. could we get more?

 

[cashregister9]

Random thinking here. I still think that a gen 8 Pokémon rep is pretty possible (unfortunatelly). Of all options, tho ones that seems more natural to me are Ciderace, Urshifu (both forms) and Zacian/Zamazenta. In Zacian/Zamazenta case, they could work like Pyra/Mythra, being two characters in one. The same could work to Urshifu, but the Zacian/Zamazenta duo idea seems much more appealing to me, changing between Zacian (attack) and Zamazenta (defense).

Also, it would be cool to have more four-legged characters in smash alongside Duck Hunt.

View attachment 311634

Hey I genuinely want a Gen 8 rep!

Zacian and Zamazenta would be great but unfortunately

Everyone seems to have forgotten this thing existed.

 

[cothero]

Hey I genuinely want a Gen 8 rep!

Zacian and Zamazenta would be great but unfortunately

Everyone seems to have forgotten this thing existed.

True. In this case, i think Urshifu could be more suitable, with some more Mons spirits added alongside him (Ciderace, Sirfetch'd and other popular ones).

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I mean, since the Japanese side of Smash fandom was brought up, I got to ask

Do you think we will get another character that majorly has it's popularity in Japan?

I would say we already got Sephiroth and Pyra/Mythra. could we get more?

I think we're still going to get at least one Japan focus characters, because Smash still focus a lot on those characters and developpers. I don't see them ending with two Western characters.