Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[JustPlainDan]

Netolabo did a survey asks for your most favorite character from Smash Ultimate.
There was a total of 19,757 participations from March 27th to April 10th.
https://nlab.itmedia.co.jp/research/articles/172655/

Spoiler: Here's the result.

1. Pyra/Mythra - 1318
2. Ganondorf - 982
3. Joker - 963
4. Kirby - 839
5. Byleth - 590
6. Cloud - 554
7. Terry - 495
8. Sephiroth - 459
9. Captain Falcon - 456
10. Hero - 404
11. Ness - 373
12. King K. Rool - 328
13. Ike - 327
14. Snake - 323
15. Corrin - 320
16. Mr. Game & Watch - 315
17. Zelda - 311
18. Pikachu - 303
19. Jigglypuff - 300
20. Lucas - 297
21. Lucina - 295
22. Link - 292
23. Robin - 289
24. R.O.B. - 272
25. King Dedede - 269
26. Greninja - 264
27. Yoshi - 254
28. Sonic - 251
29. Bowser - 243
30. Marth - 228
31. Incineroar - 223
32. Inkling - 218
33. Donkey Kong - 216
34. Mario - 211
35. Bayonetta - 210
35. Roy - 210
35. Meta Knight - 210
38. Dark Pit - 203
39. Wolf - 192
40. Ridley - 183
41. Banjo & Kazooie - 167
42. Shulk - 164
42. Little Mac - 164
44. Mewtwo - 163
45. Wii Fit Trainer - 162
46. Palutena - 161
47. Lucario - 153
48. Piranha Plant - 151
49. Samus - 147
50. Zero Suit Samus - 145
51. Pac-Man - 139
52. Mega Man - 135
53. Isabella 134
54. Pokemon Trainer - 131
55. Ice Climbers - 128
56. Pit - 127
57. Villager - 124
57. Steve - 124
59. Luigi - 121
59. Ken - 121
61. Chrom - 116
62. Pichu - 114
63. Falco - 110
64. Mii Gunner - 109
65. Toon Link - 105
66. Richter - 104
66. Bowser Jr. - 104
68. Fox - 102
69. Min Min - 101
70. Sheik - 97
71. Ryu - 96
72. Rosalina & Luma - 81
73. Young Link - 76
74. Duck Hunt - 72
75. Simon - 65
76. Wario - 62
77. Dark Samus - 57
77. Mii Brawler - 57
79. Dr. Mario - 55
80. Peach - 52
81. Olimar - 49
82. Daisy - 48
83. Mii Swordfighter - 43
84. Diddy Kong - 28

KKR at #12? Very nice

 

[Technomage]

Ubisoft is weird because when we talk about third party we usually talk about the biggest of each developpers (like Monster hunter and DMC for Capcom, Elder scrolls or Doom for Bethesda etc.). But for Ubisoft cases, the biggest franchise are rarely, if ever discussed (which are Just dance, Assassin's creed, Far cry and Tom Clancy's) but Rayman is by far the most discussed and more popular in the Smash community. While Rayman could be possible, the fact that Assassin's got a mii make me think that our first Ubisoft rep might be from this franchise considering how huge it is. Personally, I don't think we're going to see any Ubisoft characters in Ultimate because of the mii, but I think that it will be a developpers to keep an eye on for the next game, especially if they will want to add more Western characters.

I gotta disagree with a Tom Clancy character as a candidate, since if I recall correctly, the Tom Clancy games are based on novels, making a character from there ineligible for Smash.

Also, here are some more candidates for a Ubi rep:

Jade from Beyond Good and Evil
a Rabbid
The Prince from Prince of Persia

 

[chocolatejr9]

Ah, that's a great theory, too!

Also, as unique as a First-person shooter character would be if added to Smash, what'd make Cortez even more unique is his timelord powers. Cool!



I do not know a thing about Dragalia, so what would make it and Euden a loose end?

Basically, Dragalia Lost is Nintendo's first original IP for mobile devices, and also one of their most popular (I wanna say it's their second-most popular?). Yet despite that, there is LITERALLY NOTHING from the game in Smash. No music, no Spirits, no anything. You'd think there'd be SOMETHING at this point, wouldn't you?

 

[SNEKeater]

Makes sense, Richter was always more popular than Simon in Japan, Richter's anime-esque design is a lot more appealing than Conan the Barbarian and Simon's main advantage was being the first Belmont we saw

I always liked Richter more than Simon but in the end both pale in comparison to Julius, the biggest chad in the entire Belmont lineage, and I'm pretty sure Sakurai decided to not add him because he knew he would be too OP, even if he was just an echo of Simon or Richter.

 

[Technomage]

Basically, Dragalia Lost is Nintendo's first original IP for mobile devices, and also one of their most popular (I wanna say it's their second-most popular?). Yet despite that, there is LITERALLY NOTHING from the game in Smash. No music, no Spirits, no anything. You'd think there'd be SOMETHING at this point, wouldn't you?

Interesting. Well, I've made my decision: I'm gonna add DL to the list of potential loose-ends! Here's the current list:

Gen 8 Pokemon
Infinite or the Avatar from Sonic Forces
Euden

Any other potential loose-ends?

 

[Gorgonzales]

The thing with Min Min is that her entire kit is around keeping people out, so characters who don't have good anti zoning tools already start to struggle, but because of the baffling choice to make Min Min's arms disjoints, even ones who'd have options such as say, Bounce struggle. If you don't play a character who can easily move around in the air and close the gap very quickly, you'll just get hit overand over for a while, especially as the second arm gives the cheapest shield mixup in the game if you finally get pretty close. Half of her moveset literally being the exact same move also makes her visually boring so people who aren't too fussed about the competitive scene would also find her unfun

Literally why didn't they give her the mechanic from ARMS where, if her arm is attacked enough while it's outstretched (the arm part, not the fist part), it goes limp and becomes temporarily disabled? I feel that this would help solve most of the problems people have with her. She wouldn't be able to throw out punches without much thought or just instantly shut down a lot of the cast.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Interesting. Well, I've made my decision: I'm gonna add DL to the list of potential loose-ends! Here's the current list:

Gen 8 Pokemon
Infinite or the Avatar from Sonic Forces
Euden

Any other potential loose-ends?

Veemo time

yeah, Splatoon 2 and Octo Expansion have very little content in base, and Octo Expansion has NO music whatsoever

ps. I know I know, supposed to be on hiatus, but I also wanted to add I got my first dose today soooo

 

[Froggy]

Literally why didn't they give her the mechanic from ARMS where, if her arm is attacked enough while it's outstretched (the arm part, not the fist part), it goes limp and becomes temporarily disabled? I feel that this would help solve most of the problems people have with her. She wouldn't be able to throw out punches without much thought or just instantly shut down a lot of the cast.

I think they reason they didn't do this is because she would be a really suck character if that was the case. It would make it way too easy to close in on her for the characters who can already do that. With that being said if could work if they gave her a great recovery, but I think they were just afraid of balancing her that way, she is otherwise a polarizing designed character and the poor recovery option had shown to work in the past.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Literally why didn't they give her the mechanic from ARMS where, if her arm is attacked enough while it's outstretched (the arm part, not the fist part), it goes limp and becomes temporarily disabled? I feel that this would help solve most of the problems people have with her. She wouldn't be able to throw out punches without much thought or just instantly shut down a lot of the cast.

But then you'd have the exact opposite problem: every character with lingering hitboxes would shut her down instantly.

Unless you made the Arms' "endurance" a separate kind of "health" that only breaks with stronger attacks, like Belly Armor, but then the change would be kinda pointless in itself.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Veemo time

yeah, Splatoon 2 and Octo Expansion have very little content in base, and Octo Expansion has NO music whatsoever

ps. I know I know, supposed to be on hiatus, but I also wanted to add I got my first dose today soooo

Don't forget, you're here forever...

(PS: congrats on the first dose. I've heard they've been pretty hard to come by).

 

[Diddy Kong]

She would just be an echo of Diddy, and there arent anyecho dlc's.

She isn't an Echo in Donkey Kong Country, as many differences between DK and Diddy as Diddy and Dixie in DKC, and you know DK and Diddy share 0 similarities.

 

[Technomage]

Veemo time

yeah, Splatoon 2 and Octo Expansion have very little content in base, and Octo Expansion has NO music whatsoever

ps. I know I know, supposed to be on hiatus, but I also wanted to add I got my first dose today soooo

Assuming you're going back on hiatus, are you currently willing to share your ideas on an Octoling moveset before you leave again?

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

I’m going to share an unpopular and controversial opinion...Unless there is another Fighter’s Pass in the works that we just don’t know about, I really don’t see Crash Bandicoot being one of the final two (potentially 3, if that one leak ends up being true.) That’s not the controversial part though...I don’t know if it’s just because I don’t have a huge attachment to the character or what, but when he is referred to as a gaming icon...I just don’t agree. I grew up in the 90’s too, when Crash was huge.

I don’t know. I mean if he gets in, that’s jolly good, and I won’t be mad or upset. I just think there are more interesting options.

Your entitled to your own opinion, But the majority of gaming and even Nintendo themselves think otherwise.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Your entitled to your own opinion, But the majority of gaming and even Nintendo themselves think otherwise.

View attachment 311421

Yeah, but Nintendo called Byleth iconic so point is mute. I just want a 2000’s Third Party that isn’t overly predicted...........

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Literally why didn't they give her the mechanic from ARMS where, if her arm is attacked enough while it's outstretched (the arm part, not the fist part), it goes limp and becomes temporarily disabled? I feel that this would help solve most of the problems people have with her. She wouldn't be able to throw out punches without much thought or just instantly shut down a lot of the cast.

I'd have gone for making her arms projectiles. After all, Min Min's gimmick in her game was being able to bat away incoming arms, and they implemented it by giving her a reflector, so why the actual **** is it a disjoint? If that ***** gets to reflect my projectiles I should be able to smack her with her own goddamn arms, go all the ****ing way with accuracy dammit

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Yeah, but Nintendo called Byleth iconic so point is mute. I just want a 2000’s Third Party that isn’t overly predicted...........

I mean, I know a guy who debuted in a 2000s third party game. Hes on the table so long as Bomberman only deconfirms Bomberman and not the entirety of Konami.

 

[ZelDan]

Maybe I'm just imagining things, but when it comes to Crash in Smash speculation, it really feels like alot people end up falling into extremes when it comes to his chances.

If people don't think he's a super duper "safe" or mega "likely" pick who is practically 99.9% going to be in Smash, he's a "lol no chancer because too many people think he's likely is therefor 0% of making it in" or whatever.

like, to me I think Crash is certainly a possibility for one of the last 2 spots, but I don't think he's as likely as others make him out to be. I don't really think he's "likely" overall (though I don't think ANY character is overall "likely" at this point FWIW)

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Maybe the real Crash Bandicoot are all the friends we made while speculating during this journy

 

[N3ON]

Almost like “iconic” is a subjective metric we should’ve stopped using to qualify things a long time ago.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Your entitled to your own opinion, But the majority of gaming and even Nintendo themselves think otherwise.

View attachment 311421

Gotta sell the game some sort of way huh? I wouldn't look too deeply into this. Crash used to sort of compete against Nintendo's platformer franchises as Mario and Donkey Kong, so them acknowledging Crash as an icon is only for the best. Otherwise why bother releasing the games on Switch?

 

[Schnee117]

I just want a 2000’s Third Party that isn’t overly predicted...........

I don't get this mindset at all.
What happens if one of the characters you're currently supporting were to become "overly predicted" in the future?

Some of y'all get too high off of not liking popular things for the sake of it.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I don't get this mindset at all.
What happens if one of the characters you're currently supporting were to become "overly predicted" in the future?

Some of y'all get too high off of not liking popular things for the sake of it.

It's not that I don't want people to like my character.
I don't want people liking my character for different reasons than mine.
Only I have the right reasons to like a character; most of the others are plebians that do not have the same knowledge about videogames than me.
Fortunately not many people are supporting Blue Koopa with sunglasses, but I'm gatekeeping as hard as I can.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

More Monkey Ball apparently coming!

Super Monkey Ball: Banana Mania rating surfaces

SEGA may soon be revisiting its Super Monkey Ball franchise. Over in Australia, a rating for Super Monkey Ball: Banana Mania just surfaced. Super Monkey Ball has had strong ties to Nintendo platforms since its debut nearly two decades ago, so we’d hope that any new entries would end up on...

nintendoeverything.com

Another point for Zippo's little blog rumor there if this rating is true

Sonic's 30th Anniversary And What To Expect.

Hey all. Hope everyone reading this has had a great first month of the year. So, before we begin, let me get the reason I made this blog i...

zippospeaks.blogspot.com

Specifically the bit where he says:

"

-Cameos and Guest Appearances:

Sonic will apparently appear as a guest in a bunch of games coming this year, Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 being the first game of this year's big push. I don't know what the other games are, but I have a prediction that one of them will be a guest appearance in SEGA's new Super Monkey Ball game, that series will celebrate it's 20th anniversary this year, so expect a pretty big push for that one, as well.

"
I'm not as up on my Monkey Ball in the way I am with DRAGON Ball, but like... was it even known that SEGA would have a new Monkey Ball in 2021 back when this was written on February 5th 2021? If not... Zippo may well have found himself a gold mine with this one.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

More Monkey Ball apparently coming!

Super Monkey Ball: Banana Mania rating surfaces

SEGA may soon be revisiting its Super Monkey Ball franchise. Over in Australia, a rating for Super Monkey Ball: Banana Mania just surfaced. Super Monkey Ball has had strong ties to Nintendo platforms since its debut nearly two decades ago, so we’d hope that any new entries would end up on...

nintendoeverything.com

Another point for Zippo's little blog rumor there if this rating is true

Sonic's 30th Anniversary And What To Expect.

Hey all. Hope everyone reading this has had a great first month of the year. So, before we begin, let me get the reason I made this blog i...

zippospeaks.blogspot.com

Specifically the bit where he says:

"

-Cameos and Guest Appearances:

Sonic will apparently appear as a guest in a bunch of games coming this year, Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 being the first game of this year's big push. I don't know what the other games are, but I have a prediction that one of them will be a guest appearance in SEGA's new Super Monkey Ball game, that series will celebrate it's 20th anniversary this year, so expect a pretty big push for that one, as well.

"
I'm not as up on my Monkey Ball in the way I am with DRAGON Ball, but like... was it even known that SEGA would have a new Monkey Ball in 2021 back when this was written on February 5th 2021? If not... Zippo may well have found himself a gold mine with this one.

Zippo's been full of **** more often than not, we know that we'd get more Monkey Ball if Banana Blitz HD did well and Sonic made a cameo in there too

 

[Schnee117]

More Monkey Ball apparently coming!

Super Monkey Ball: Banana Mania rating surfaces

SEGA may soon be revisiting its Super Monkey Ball franchise. Over in Australia, a rating for Super Monkey Ball: Banana Mania just surfaced. Super Monkey Ball has had strong ties to Nintendo platforms since its debut nearly two decades ago, so we’d hope that any new entries would end up on...

nintendoeverything.com

Another point for Zippo's little blog rumor there if this rating is true

Sonic's 30th Anniversary And What To Expect.

Hey all. Hope everyone reading this has had a great first month of the year. So, before we begin, let me get the reason I made this blog i...

zippospeaks.blogspot.com

Specifically the bit where he says:

"

-Cameos and Guest Appearances:

Sonic will apparently appear as a guest in a bunch of games coming this year, Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 being the first game of this year's big push. I don't know what the other games are, but I have a prediction that one of them will be a guest appearance in SEGA's new Super Monkey Ball game, that series will celebrate it's 20th anniversary this year, so expect a pretty big push for that one, as well.

"
I'm not as up on my Monkey Ball in the way I am with DRAGON Ball, but like... was it even known that SEGA would have a new Monkey Ball in 2021 back when this was written on February 5th 2021? If not... Zippo may well have found himself a gold mine with this one.

A new Monkey Ball's been in the rumour mill for a while now.

 

[epicmartin7]

Almost like “iconic” is a subjective metric we should’ve stopped using to qualify things a long time ago.

Well, tbf, everything in life is built on metrics. :V

Spoiler

So I guess we should stop smash speculation now

Spoiler

/s

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

A new Monkey Ball's been in the rumour mill for a while now.

Has it been? Like I said, I'm more DRAGON Ball than Monkey Ball. I know OF Monkey Ball but I don't know IT

 

[CannonStreak]

Has it been? Like I said, I'm more DRAGON Ball than Monkey Ball. I know OF Monkey Ball but I don't know IT

Well, I will tell you one thing; there aren’t seven spheres that grant a wish when gathered in Monkey Ball.

 

[N3ON]

I don't get this mindset at all.
What happens if one of the characters you're currently supporting were to become "overly predicted" in the future?

Some of y'all get too high off of not liking popular things for the sake of it.

I totally agree. What happens if a longshot you've supported forever begins to gain groundswell? Would you jump ship? What kind of terrible Smash hipster is that?

If you'll indulge me in a long-winded repost:

I don't get why people care so much about a character being "obvious". There's no correlation between that and them being fun. There isn't even a correlation between that and being exciting. You have characters that were widely thought about that were among the peak of excitement, like Sonic, Mega Man, Mewtwo, Ridley, K. Rool, Banjo, etc. You have characters that weren't thought about that much that were very exciting, like Snake and Cloud. You have characters that were thought about that weren't received with great enthusiasm, like Isabelle, Incineroar, and Mii. You have characters that weren't thought about that also received muted to negative reception, like Piranha Plant, Corrin and WFT.

There's zero correlation on a macro level. Let alone causation. I get things are subjective, but a character becomes boring... because you've thought about it? You've never even played as them. It's not exciting to see them on every "leak", true, but that's very different than actually getting a character. I understand the thrill of being pleasantly surprised, but to put such stock on whether something was anticipated is prioritizing the prediction above the actual game, which seems... backwards. Shouldn't what is being talked about be more important than talking about it?

I mean, the reveal is ephemeral. It happens, it brings a range of emotions, and it fades. The inclusion is what lasts. What does it matter if they're obvious? The part where that would be relevant is so fleeting.

This really just seems like an extension of judging a character based on the fanbase, which is never worthwhile or fair.

 

[Louie G.]

Poor Diddy Kong.

I like Diddy Kong a lot as a character, but I can never wrap my head around him in Smash. It doesn't surprise me to see him rank so low on that Japanese poll for that reason, he's kind of a specialized character but not a super flashy one either. He just feels odd to control.

Like, the way I see it, Diddy Kong is a character who feels like he's there because he has to be - not much more or less. He's ****ing Diddy Kong, why wouldn't he be in Smash, but he really just kind of exists. I don't know how I would change this, and certainly there seem to be plenty of people who still do enjoy playing Diddy Kong as he currently is, but I'd like for them to at least give him a bit more flair than the annoying cheese that has given him the spotlight throughout Smash 4. Same could be said about the similarly unpopular Olimar.

I don't think either of these are characters people would ever want gone, nor are they characters who I think would be, but are also not characters who have garnered that much attachment in the realm of general playstyle and exciting gameplay opportunities. So I think they end up being more "forgettable" than anything.

 

[Ivander]

Almost like “iconic” is a subjective metric we should’ve stopped using to qualify things a long time ago.

We really shouldn't be using it when arguably, we've only gotten a couple characters from the Fighter Passes that are truly iconic. Not to mention, "It's important for a character to be fun than just be recognisable."

 

[spicynun]

I hope they eventually do Monkey Ball 1 and 2 HD. Banana Blitz is okay, but the first two are so good.

 

[Dinoman96]

I like Diddy Kong a lot as a character, but I can never wrap my head around him in Smash. It doesn't surprise me to see him rank so low on that Japanese poll for that reason, he's kind of a specialized character but not a super flashy one either. He just feels odd to control.

Like, the way I see it, Diddy Kong is a character who feels like he's there because he has to be - not much more or less. He's ****ing Diddy Kong, why wouldn't he be in Smash, but he really just kind of exists. I don't know how I would change this, and certainly there seem to be plenty of people who still do enjoy playing Diddy Kong as he currently is, but I'd like for them to at least give him a bit more flair than the annoying cheese that has given him the spotlight throughout Smash 4. Same could be said about the similarly unpopular Olimar.

I don't think either of these are characters people would ever want gone, nor are they characters who I think would be, but are also not characters who have garnered that much attachment in the realm of general playstyle and exciting gameplay opportunities. So I think they end up being more "forgettable" than anything.

I think some of this may have something to do with the fact that Diddy originally was supposed to have some flair: he was supposed to be apart of a tag team gimmick with Dixie in Brawl, in reference to DKC2. But as we all know, technical limitations prevented this and they just made Diddy his own standalone character.

I always felt the Banana Peel move was just done as a quick and easy replacement for what was obviously just going to be the special that would tag Diddy and Dixie in/out.

 

[N3ON]

We really shouldn't be using it when arguably, we've only gotten a couple characters from the Fighter Passes that are truly iconic. Not to mention, "It's important for a character to be fun than just be recognisable."

I mean, we shouldn't be using it because if it doesn't apply to every character we've received recently it's clearly not essential, and if it does then it would probably apply to any reasonable candidate anyway, at least in retrospect. It's useless; it's going to have a different application from person to person.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Almost like “iconic” is a subjective metric we should’ve stopped using to qualify things a long time ago.

Almost every metric we judge these characters by is subjective, and is no more or less valid than any of the others. And if we stopped discussing every qualitative factor, we'd have nothing to talk about.

I mean, we shouldn't be using it because if it doesn't apply to every character we've received recently it's clearly not essential

Literally nothing outside of being from a video game property is essential. So unless your goal is to just kill all discussion...

 

[Technomage]

I think some of this may have something to do with the fact that Diddy originally was supposed to have some flair: he was supposed to be apart of a tag team gimmick with Dixie in Brawl, in reference to DKC2. But as we all know, technical limitations prevented this and they just made Diddy his own standalone character.

I always felt the Banana Peel move was just done as a quick and easy replacement for what was obviously just going to be the special that would tag Diddy and Dixie in/out.

What technical limitations did they have that Pokemon Trainer, Melee/Brawl Zelda, Brawl Samus, and Pythra didn't?

 

[ZelDan]

Yeah, I don't get how a character becoming more commonly predicted or becoming more "safe" could make one not like or want a character anymore.

I could understand a little bit of the magic being lost, as something having an "underdog/surprise factor" can make things a bit more exciting.

But, if you really like/want a character, then a good chunk of other people also wanting/liking or expecting a character really shouldn't be that much of a deterrent.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I like Diddy Kong a lot as a character, but I can never wrap my head around him in Smash. It doesn't surprise me to see him rank so low on that Japanese poll for that reason, he's kind of a specialized character but not a super flashy one either. He just feels odd to control.

Like, the way I see it, Diddy Kong is a character who feels like he's there because he has to be - not much more or less. He's ****ing Diddy Kong, why wouldn't he be in Smash, but he really just kind of exists. I don't know how I would change this, and certainly there seem to be plenty of people who still do enjoy playing Diddy Kong as he currently is, but I'd like for them to at least give him a bit more flair than the annoying cheese that has given him the spotlight throughout Smash 4. Same could be said about the similarly unpopular Olimar.

I don't think either of these are characters people would ever want gone, nor are they characters who I think would be, but are also not characters who have garnered that much attachment in the realm of general playstyle and exciting gameplay opportunities. So I think they end up being more "forgettable" than anything.

You're underrating Diddy. He's easily the most technical character of Smash Bros., learn to enjoy that!

 

[N3ON]

I think some of this may have something to do with the fact that Diddy originally was supposed to have some flair: he was supposed to be apart of a tag team gimmick with Dixie in Brawl, in reference to DKC2. But as we all know, technical limitations prevented this and they just made Diddy his own standalone character.

I always felt the Banana Peel move was just done as a quick and easy replacement for what was originally just going to be special that would tag Diddy and Dixie in/out.

I don't think Diddy's moveset comes up short against the characters he was added alongside. Smash movesets often get more elaborate over time, and a lot of the Brawl characters probably have something akin to middle-child syndrome at this point.

I also think a census like that would be subject to a lot of variability with a different sample, though. I would question how much external validity it had.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Just watch Tweek play Diddy, I dare you will think different of the character. The skill ceiling for this character is insane. And sure I sound biased, but just watch the guy play.