Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Gorgonzales]

I’m going to share an unpopular and controversial opinion...Unless there is another Fighter’s Pass in the works that we just don’t know about, I really don’t see Crash Bandicoot being one of the final two (potentially 3, if that one leak ends up being true.) That’s not the controversial part though...I don’t know if it’s just because I don’t have a huge attachment to the character or what, but when he is referred to as a gaming icon...I just don’t agree. I grew up in the 90’s too, when Crash was huge.

I don’t know. I mean if he gets in, that’s jolly good, and I won’t be mad or upset. I just think there are more interesting options.

I'm in the exact same boat.

Rule of Smash Speculation: If everyone expects a character to be in, that character is probably not going to be in (unless they were explicitly leaked).

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Corrin at 15, ya love to see it

Anyways, on the topic of Pyra/Mythra, Japan loooooves Xenoblade 2, and Rex always ranked high on polls and stuff there, so I don't really think it's a recency bias thing regarding their top spot.

And poor min min is at 69

Despite how n i c e the number is, I guess Japan really doesnt like her much after all

 

[Technomage]

Hey, I got a theory I've come up with: You know how all of the characters in FP1, except Byleth, are third-party characters, making it a "one of these things just doesn't belong here" kind of thing? Well, since all the current fighters of FP2 released so far seem to be a "loose ends" kind of thing (and yes, I count Steve as that due to the fact that his inclusion was being negotiated on for half a decade), what are the chances of one of those characters also being in a similar boat as Byleth?

 

[Cosmic77]

Min Min is hated in a similar vein to Bayonetta. Did Japan hate Min Min when she was first revealed? No, not really. However, after seeing her being used to win matches again and again with the same combos, people became sour.

It could've happened with any ARMS character. At the time she was chosen though, she was genuinely one of the most popular characters from that game.

 

[Faso115]

So Min Min is op or just frustrating to play against? Prob the latter but she is easily the most disliked dlc gameplay wise

 

[3BitSaurus]

Yep, Pac-Man is mid tier. Please buff him Sakurai

I mean, I did specifically say it was a general approximation of where you'd see the order of third parties around tier lists, not their exact order or tiers. So the joke kinda falls flat.

...But yes, please buff him Sakurai, the Online Hell memes give me life.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

So Min Min is op or just frustrating to play against? Prob the latter but she is easily the most disliked dlc gameplay wise

In my experience, she is the most fustrating thing the play against and I wont lie that one match with her made me not like her much

 

[cothero]

Haha, that can't be correct. Surely you mean it turns 7 today, right?

... right?

Sakurai I don't want to feel old anymore please stop doing this to me

He just do it to punish us 'cuz he's a vampire and never ages. Us, otherwise...

 

[Golden Icarus]

Netolabo did a survey asks for your most favorite character from Smash Ultimate.
There was a total of 19,757 participations from March 27th to April 10th.
https://nlab.itmedia.co.jp/research/articles/172655/

Spoiler: Here's the result.

1. Pyra/Mythra - 1318
2. Ganondorf - 982
3. Joker - 963
4. Kirby - 839
5. Byleth - 590
6. Cloud - 554
7. Terry - 495
8. Sephiroth - 459
9. Captain Falcon - 456
10. Hero - 404
11. Ness - 373
12. King K. Rool - 328
13. Ike - 327
14. Snake - 323
15. Corrin - 320
16. Mr. Game & Watch - 315
17. Zelda - 311
18. Pikachu - 303
19. Jigglypuff - 300
20. Lucas - 297
21. Lucina - 295
22. Link - 292
23. Robin - 289
24. R.O.B. - 272
25. King Dedede - 269
26. Greninja - 264
27. Yoshi - 254
28. Sonic - 251
29. Bowser - 243
30. Marth - 228
31. Incineroar - 223
32. Inkling - 218
33. Donkey Kong - 216
34. Mario - 211
35. Bayonetta - 210
35. Roy - 210
35. Meta Knight - 210
38. Dark Pit - 203
39. Wolf - 192
40. Ridley - 183
41. Banjo & Kazooie - 167
42. Shulk - 164
42. Little Mac - 164
44. Mewtwo - 163
45. Wii Fit Trainer - 162
46. Palutena - 161
47. Lucario - 153
48. Piranha Plant - 151
49. Samus - 147
50. Zero Suit Samus - 145
51. Pac-Man - 139
52. Mega Man - 135
53. Isabella 134
54. Pokemon Trainer - 131
55. Ice Climbers - 128
56. Pit - 127
57. Villager - 124
57. Steve - 124
59. Luigi - 121
59. Ken - 121
61. Chrom - 116
62. Pichu - 114
63. Falco - 110
64. Mii Gunner - 109
65. Toon Link - 105
66. Richter - 104
66. Bowser Jr. - 104
68. Fox - 102
69. Min Min - 101
70. Sheik - 97
71. Ryu - 96
72. Rosalina & Luma - 81
73. Young Link - 76
74. Duck Hunt - 72
75. Simon - 65
76. Wario - 62
77. Dark Samus - 57
77. Mii Brawler - 57
79. Dr. Mario - 55
80. Peach - 52
81. Olimar - 49
82. Daisy - 48
83. Mii Swordfighter - 43
84. Diddy Kong - 28

1. Pyra
5. Byleth
15. Corrin

68. Fox
80. Peach
81. Olimar
84. Diddy

If the next Smash game really is going to incude a ton of cuts, then it might not look quite the way we would expect. The fact that Corrin and Byleth have this many diehard fans makes me all the more confident that Smash 6 definitely should just build upon Ultimate. Even the most nonessential characters have huge fanbases.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So Min Min is op or just frustrating to play against? Prob the latter but she is easily the most disliked dlc gameplay wise

The thing with Min Min is that her entire kit is around keeping people out, so characters who don't have good anti zoning tools already start to struggle, but because of the baffling choice to make Min Min's arms disjoints, even ones who'd have options such as say, Bounce struggle. If you don't play a character who can easily move around in the air and close the gap very quickly, you'll just get hit overand over for a while, especially as the second arm gives the cheapest shield mixup in the game if you finally get pretty close. Half of her moveset literally being the exact same move also makes her visually boring so people who aren't too fussed about the competitive scene would also find her unfun

 

[SKX31]

Yeah, the list pretty much reflects several things that were reported about Japan's playerbase. For example, almost all of the DLC picks from recent games are in the top 5... except for Min Min, who seems to be hated there.

Meanwhile, the third parties seem to almost be ranked according to how you'd see them in a tier list, with characters like , and close to the top, , and in the middle and and closer to the bottom. There are a few oddities here and there, like being closer to the top than the middle, but I'd wager these can be attributed to the games' specific popularity in Japan.

Pretty sure and are considered pretty damn strong characters. And people still don't know how to even start rating . Anyhow:

And poor min min is at 69

Despite how n i c e the number is, I guess Japan really doesnt like her much after all

Min Min is hated in a similar vein to Bayonetta. Did Japan hate Min Min when she was first revealed? No, not really. However, after seeing her being used to win matches again and again with the same combos, people became sour.

It could've happened with any ARMS character. At the time she was chosen though, she was genuinely one of the most popular characters from that game.

So Min Min is op or just frustrating to play against? Prob the latter but she is easily the most disliked dlc gameplay wise

I've never been entirely sure re: Min Min being hated in Japan. So, I used Min Min's Japanese name - ミェンミェン - and looked around to see if that's the case or not. There are some videos besides tournament VoDs getting dislike-bombed (some players are more disliked-bombed than others though):

* Zackray posted a couple click-baity Min Min gameplay vids (283K and 313K views) in July / August. While I don't entirely trust Google Translate (due to literal translations not being the best for conveying context), the August vid title named Ram Ram's edgeguarding specifically as absurdly powerful + the vids focused a lot on him walling out people for any mistakes they made. He later made a third video (298K views), with a title that loosely translates to "This is one of the reasons why Min Min is called a character that cheats." He's not the only pro that's posted such vids, but the most prominent one due to his following.

* A gameplay vid by the streamer MKR Channel (412K views) whose title mention "Instant death combo" (If google translate is correct that is). That instant death combo being the Scholar's Mate cheese - which MKR did perform just one minute into the video:

If anyone wonders why Dragon ARM's Laser was nerfed a tad last patch... I'm 100 % sure this is why.​

* A couple shorter videos (93K and 246K views) that focus on a more memetic atmosphere. The former went so far as to call Dragon Laser a stronger KO move than Warlock Punch / Aymr.

Summary: I don't believe that Min Min's hated by everyone there, but there's a subset of people who really dislike / hate the character. Some of that hate comes down to a couple players reportedly being asses, but the dislike-bombing and stuff persists some even with more liked pro players like Protobanham.

There are a couple major reasons for the dislike though:

1. Min Min's zoning is excellent not only because it punishes mistakes - which people will do, especially at the casual level - but also since it's a consistent 20 - 30 % damage. It also shuts down adrealine for a lot of people if they can't get through the wall of punches - those that want adrealine become frustrated as all hell when they're constantly punched back. It's one reason why I'm pretty sure that Min Min - like the Belmonts - is a "casual-killer" going by her very high online winrate on a lower level (57,25 % - 4th highest amongst low / mid-level, with some absurd winrates vs. characters like and ).

2. Her pro win rate is strong online (56 %), seemingly on the wonkier side offline (although that could change). The character has so far won a couple regional tournaments, but not much beyond that. While online plays a part of course, it's worth noting that the Japanese metagame uses most of the cast (as opposed to elsewhere where characters considered high / top tier are more prominent), and generally plays more patiently. Min Min's zoning does extremely well in this environment, when she can set up shop and create a zone quite a few characters have a lot of trouble getting through to.

3. Beating her can feel unorthodox, especially since her CQC is very good. It's mainly about "Once she's hit, keep pressuring her and smother her with hitboxes and 50 / 50 guessing games. Don't let her set up shop. But be intelligent about it". Doing so in a way that's effective can be really difficult to do, especially if one has a habit of being a bit too overagressive. That's where I suspect a lot of the frustration comes in - a mistake while pursuing can lead to a reset, which Min Min wants.

I don't think she's / levels broken - she has enough weaknesses that affect her gameplan a lot - but she's polarizing. If she gets ahead it's easy for her to stay ahead and wall the opponent(s) out, but if she falls behind she can have a lot of trouble even getting back on her feet. That makes it frustrating for a lot of players to experience, especially in an environment that inadvertedly allows her to set up shop.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sakurai posted a second POTD a couple days ago.

※スマブラの画面です
2001年のきょう『どうぶつの森』(Animal Crossing)発売!!
当時は64DDの作品として制作されており､ROMカセットへと変更されました｡
海外での販売は､次作『どうぶつの森+』から｡同年12月には発売されており､爆発的人気もそこからが本番です｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/m6nkxMrJcW

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) April 14, 2021

 

[chocolatejr9]

Say, remember that Ubisoft Forward thing Ubisoft did awhile back? Well, they just announced their next one is going to happen during E3.

I guess we can talk about Ubisoft in Smash now?

 

[Brother AJ]

I’m going to share an unpopular and controversial opinion...Unless there is another Fighter’s Pass in the works that we just don’t know about, I really don’t see Crash Bandicoot being one of the final two (potentially 3, if that one leak ends up being true.) That’s not the controversial part though...I don’t know if it’s just because I don’t have a huge attachment to the character or what, but when he is referred to as a gaming icon...I just don’t agree. I grew up in the 90’s too, when Crash was huge.

I don’t know. I mean if he gets in, that’s jolly good, and I won’t be mad or upset. I just think there are more interesting options.

Well you're perfectly entitled to not be interested in the character. As for Crash not being an icon, well I suppose it depends on your definition of what qualifies as one. I think you'd have to have a very strict definition to NOT qualify Crash as an "icon". In terms of sales and cultural impact, he absolutely is considered iconic.

His series has sold over 50 million copies, which makes him one of the highest selling game franchises of all time on par with series like Metal Gear, Mortal Kombat, and Tekken.

In 2011 (before his revival mind you), he was voted to be the 11th best gaming character of all time by 13,000 gamers for the Guinness Book of World Records.

He has even made an impact outside of gaming. Interestingly, the oldest bandicoot fossil ever found was named after the famous orange marsupial.

 

[Arcanir]

Netolabo did a survey asks for your most favorite character from Smash Ultimate.
There was a total of 19,757 participations from March 27th to April 10th.
https://nlab.itmedia.co.jp/research/articles/172655/

Spoiler: Here's the result.

1. Pyra/Mythra - 1318
2. Ganondorf - 982
3. Joker - 963
4. Kirby - 839
5. Byleth - 590
6. Cloud - 554
7. Terry - 495
8. Sephiroth - 459
9. Captain Falcon - 456
10. Hero - 404
11. Ness - 373
12. King K. Rool - 328
13. Ike - 327
14. Snake - 323
15. Corrin - 320
16. Mr. Game & Watch - 315
17. Zelda - 311
18. Pikachu - 303
19. Jigglypuff - 300
20. Lucas - 297
21. Lucina - 295
22. Link - 292
23. Robin - 289
24. R.O.B. - 272
25. King Dedede - 269
26. Greninja - 264
27. Yoshi - 254
28. Sonic - 251
29. Bowser - 243
30. Marth - 228
31. Incineroar - 223
32. Inkling - 218
33. Donkey Kong - 216
34. Mario - 211
35. Bayonetta - 210
35. Roy - 210
35. Meta Knight - 210
38. Dark Pit - 203
39. Wolf - 192
40. Ridley - 183
41. Banjo & Kazooie - 167
42. Shulk - 164
42. Little Mac - 164
44. Mewtwo - 163
45. Wii Fit Trainer - 162
46. Palutena - 161
47. Lucario - 153
48. Piranha Plant - 151
49. Samus - 147
50. Zero Suit Samus - 145
51. Pac-Man - 139
52. Mega Man - 135
53. Isabella 134
54. Pokemon Trainer - 131
55. Ice Climbers - 128
56. Pit - 127
57. Villager - 124
57. Steve - 124
59. Luigi - 121
59. Ken - 121
61. Chrom - 116
62. Pichu - 114
63. Falco - 110
64. Mii Gunner - 109
65. Toon Link - 105
66. Richter - 104
66. Bowser Jr. - 104
68. Fox - 102
69. Min Min - 101
70. Sheik - 97
71. Ryu - 96
72. Rosalina & Luma - 81
73. Young Link - 76
74. Duck Hunt - 72
75. Simon - 65
76. Wario - 62
77. Dark Samus - 57
77. Mii Brawler - 57
79. Dr. Mario - 55
80. Peach - 52
81. Olimar - 49
82. Daisy - 48
83. Mii Swordfighter - 43
84. Diddy Kong - 28

You know, I'm actually pretty surprised Ridley is the most popular Metroid character on here as I expected him to be lower then ZSS who I see a lot more of in Japan. Same thing with Samus vs. her, but it's only by single digits so it's not as notable.

Also, I always find it funny how Richter usually beats Simon on these Smash polls. The latter was the most wanted, but as soon as his descendant came along the poor guy was overshadowed.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You know, I'm actually pretty surprised Ridley is the most popular Metroid character on here as I expected him to be lower then ZSS who I see a lot more of in Japan. Same thing with Samus vs. her, but it's only by single digits so it's not as notable.

Also, I always find it funny how Richter usually beats Simon on these Smash polls. The latter was the most wanted, but as soon as his descendant came along the poor guy was overshadowed.

Makes sense, Richter was always more popular than Simon in Japan, Richter's anime-esque design is a lot more appealing than Conan the Barbarian and Simon's main advantage was being the first Belmont we saw

 

[SpectreJordan]

Well you're perfectly entitled to not be interested in the character. As for Crash not being an icon, well I suppose it depends on your definition of what qualifies as one. I think you'd have to have a very strict definition to NOT qualify Crash as an "icon". In terms of sales and cultural impact, he absolutely is considered iconic.

His series has sold over 50 million copies, which makes him one of the highest selling game franchises of all time on par with series like Metal Gear, Mortal Kombat, and Tekken.

In 2011 (before his revival mind you), he was voted to be the top 11th gaming character of all time by 13,000 gamers for the Guinness Book of World Records.

He has even made an impact outside of gaming. Interestingly, the oldest bandicoot fossil ever found was named after the famous orange marsupial.

Yeah, I don’t think his remade trilogy would’ve sold 10 million copies if he wasn’t iconic. I assume that’s one of the biggest remakes ever.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Say, remember that Ubisoft Forward thing Ubisoft did awhile back? Well, they just announced their next one is going to happen during E3.

I guess we can talk about Ubisoft in Smash now?

Ubisoft is weird because when we talk about third party we usually talk about the biggest of each developpers (like Monster hunter and DMC for Capcom, Elder scrolls or Doom for Bethesda etc.). But for Ubisoft cases, the biggest franchise are rarely, if ever discussed (which are Just dance, Assassin's creed, Far cry and Tom Clancy's) but Rayman is by far the most discussed and more popular in the Smash community. While Rayman could be possible, the fact that Assassin's got a mii make me think that our first Ubisoft rep might be from this franchise considering how huge it is. Personally, I don't think we're going to see any Ubisoft characters in Ultimate because of the mii, but I think that it will be a developpers to keep an eye on for the next game, especially if they will want to add more Western characters.

 

[Technomage]

Well you're perfectly entitled to not be interested in the character. As for Crash not being an icon, well I suppose it depends on your definition of what qualifies as one. I think you'd have to have a very strict definition to NOT qualify Crash as an "icon". In terms of sales and cultural impact, he absolutely is considered iconic.

His series has sold over 50 million copies, which makes him one of the highest selling game franchises of all time on par with series like Metal Gear, Mortal Kombat, and Tekken.

In 2011 (before his revival mind you), he was voted to be the top 11th gaming character of all time by 13,000 gamers for the Guinness Book of World Records.

He has even made an impact outside of gaming. Interestingly, the oldest bandicoot fossil ever found was named after the famous orange marsupial.

Don't forget about the reference The Simpsons made of Crash.

 

[DanganZilla5]

Netolabo did a survey asks for your most favorite character from Smash Ultimate.
There was a total of 19,757 participations from March 27th to April 10th.
https://nlab.itmedia.co.jp/research/articles/172655/

Spoiler: Here's the result.

1. Pyra/Mythra - 1318
2. Ganondorf - 982
3. Joker - 963
4. Kirby - 839
5. Byleth - 590
6. Cloud - 554
7. Terry - 495
8. Sephiroth - 459
9. Captain Falcon - 456
10. Hero - 404
11. Ness - 373
12. King K. Rool - 328
13. Ike - 327
14. Snake - 323
15. Corrin - 320
16. Mr. Game & Watch - 315
17. Zelda - 311
18. Pikachu - 303
19. Jigglypuff - 300
20. Lucas - 297
21. Lucina - 295
22. Link - 292
23. Robin - 289
24. R.O.B. - 272
25. King Dedede - 269
26. Greninja - 264
27. Yoshi - 254
28. Sonic - 251
29. Bowser - 243
30. Marth - 228
31. Incineroar - 223
32. Inkling - 218
33. Donkey Kong - 216
34. Mario - 211
35. Bayonetta - 210
35. Roy - 210
35. Meta Knight - 210
38. Dark Pit - 203
39. Wolf - 192
40. Ridley - 183
41. Banjo & Kazooie - 167
42. Shulk - 164
42. Little Mac - 164
44. Mewtwo - 163
45. Wii Fit Trainer - 162
46. Palutena - 161
47. Lucario - 153
48. Piranha Plant - 151
49. Samus - 147
50. Zero Suit Samus - 145
51. Pac-Man - 139
52. Mega Man - 135
53. Isabella 134
54. Pokemon Trainer - 131
55. Ice Climbers - 128
56. Pit - 127
57. Villager - 124
57. Steve - 124
59. Luigi - 121
59. Ken - 121
61. Chrom - 116
62. Pichu - 114
63. Falco - 110
64. Mii Gunner - 109
65. Toon Link - 105
66. Richter - 104
66. Bowser Jr. - 104
68. Fox - 102
69. Min Min - 101
70. Sheik - 97
71. Ryu - 96
72. Rosalina & Luma - 81
73. Young Link - 76
74. Duck Hunt - 72
75. Simon - 65
76. Wario - 62
77. Dark Samus - 57
77. Mii Brawler - 57
79. Dr. Mario - 55
80. Peach - 52
81. Olimar - 49
82. Daisy - 48
83. Mii Swordfighter - 43
84. Diddy Kong - 28

On one hand seeing Pyra/Mythra at the top is great. I've been playing a lot of Xenoblade 2 (53 hours so far) and I'm in love with it. It might just have one of my favorite casts in gaming which I was not expecting to say and the combat is so much fun when you figure it all out. The game has issues, absolutely, but my god the characters, story, and themes are just so well done and especially in the later chapters it has been great moment after great moment. If anyone wants to gush about Xenoblade 2 with me (Up until chapter 7) feel free to PM me because I want to gush about this game with others.

But on the other hand, seeing Simon very close to the bottom is kinda depressing to me.

 

[CannonStreak]

Don't forget about the reference The Simpsons made of Crash.

Like Dash Dingo in that one episode?

 

[RGFS]

1. Pyra
5. Byleth
15. Corrin

68. Fox
80. Peach
81. Olimar
84. Diddy

If the next Smash game really is going to incude a ton of cuts, then it might not look quite the way we would expect. The fact that Corrin and Byleth have this many diehard fans makes me all the more confident that Smash 6 definitely should just build upon Ultimate. Even the most nonessential characters have huge fanbases.

19,700 players shouldn't dictate who gets cut when over 20 million bought Smash Bros Ultimate. That's roughly 0.0985% of the playerbase's favorite characters...

 

[Golden Icarus]

19,700 players shouldn't dictate who gets cut when over 20 million bought Smash Bros Ultimate. That's 0.0985% of the playerbase's favorite characters...

Well of course not all 20 million people are ever going to vote on the same poll. Regardless, that’s a pretty sizable sample of Japan’s fanbase. If certain characters performed well within that small sample, odds are they would perform pretty well in a large sample, too.

 

[Pupp135]

Netolabo did a survey asks for your most favorite character from Smash Ultimate.
There was a total of 19,757 participations from March 27th to April 10th.
https://nlab.itmedia.co.jp/research/articles/172655/

Spoiler: Here's the result.

1. Pyra/Mythra - 1318
2. Ganondorf - 982
3. Joker - 963
4. Kirby - 839
5. Byleth - 590
6. Cloud - 554
7. Terry - 495
8. Sephiroth - 459
9. Captain Falcon - 456
10. Hero - 404
11. Ness - 373
12. King K. Rool - 328
13. Ike - 327
14. Snake - 323
15. Corrin - 320
16. Mr. Game & Watch - 315
17. Zelda - 311
18. Pikachu - 303
19. Jigglypuff - 300
20. Lucas - 297
21. Lucina - 295
22. Link - 292
23. Robin - 289
24. R.O.B. - 272
25. King Dedede - 269
26. Greninja - 264
27. Yoshi - 254
28. Sonic - 251
29. Bowser - 243
30. Marth - 228
31. Incineroar - 223
32. Inkling - 218
33. Donkey Kong - 216
34. Mario - 211
35. Bayonetta - 210
35. Roy - 210
35. Meta Knight - 210
38. Dark Pit - 203
39. Wolf - 192
40. Ridley - 183
41. Banjo & Kazooie - 167
42. Shulk - 164
42. Little Mac - 164
44. Mewtwo - 163
45. Wii Fit Trainer - 162
46. Palutena - 161
47. Lucario - 153
48. Piranha Plant - 151
49. Samus - 147
50. Zero Suit Samus - 145
51. Pac-Man - 139
52. Mega Man - 135
53. Isabella 134
54. Pokemon Trainer - 131
55. Ice Climbers - 128
56. Pit - 127
57. Villager - 124
57. Steve - 124
59. Luigi - 121
59. Ken - 121
61. Chrom - 116
62. Pichu - 114
63. Falco - 110
64. Mii Gunner - 109
65. Toon Link - 105
66. Richter - 104
66. Bowser Jr. - 104
68. Fox - 102
69. Min Min - 101
70. Sheik - 97
71. Ryu - 96
72. Rosalina & Luma - 81
73. Young Link - 76
74. Duck Hunt - 72
75. Simon - 65
76. Wario - 62
77. Dark Samus - 57
77. Mii Brawler - 57
79. Dr. Mario - 55
80. Peach - 52
81. Olimar - 49
82. Daisy - 48
83. Mii Swordfighter - 43
84. Diddy Kong - 28

I’m not surpised to see Pyra/Mythra doing well since they’re the most recent release (I do like playing as Mythra). I am happy to also see Byleth (my favorite DLC fighter) in the top 5.

 

[Technomage]

It's been two hours, and nobody's made any comment about the theory I made earlier in this page?

Hey, I got a theory I've come up with: You know how all of the characters in FP1, except Byleth, are third-party characters, making it a "one of these things just doesn't belong here" kind of thing? Well, since all the current fighters of FP2 released so far seem to be a "loose ends" kind of thing (and yes, I count Steve as that due to the fact that his inclusion was being negotiated on for half a decade), what are the chances of one of those characters also being in a similar boat as Byleth?

 

[Brother AJ]

Don't forget about the reference The Simpsons made of Crash.

Good lord I had never seen this before... Thanks for the info!

"Foolish Dingo! You must find and devour the 7 crystal babies, or spend eternity TRAPPED IN DEEP DIDGERIDOO!!!"

Wtf...

 

[chocolatejr9]

It's been two hours, and nobody's made any comment about the theory I made earlier in this page?

If I'm reading this right, you think one of the characters (Fighter 11 if I had to bet) will break the current trend of characters?

 

[DanganZilla5]

It's been two hours, and nobody's made any comment about the theory I made earlier in this page?

It's a pattern in this pass for sure, but it's a pattern that I could see easily broken. There are certainly plenty of characters from already represented series that they could go with, but at the same time that alone isn't enough to say that the next two characters will certainly fit in with the pattern. So I agree with your theory. It's just that I don't think there is enough evidence to say either way what the remaining pass looks like.

 

[Technomage]

If I'm reading this right, you think one of the characters (Fighter 11 if I had to bet) will break the current trend of characters?

Yes, I think there's a chance one of the DLC characters might break its pass's current trend (just like how Byleth broke its pass's trend).

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yes, I think there's a chance one of the DLC characters might break its pass's current trend (just like how Byleth broke its pass's trend).

So I guess the question would then become "what character could break the trend"?

 

[Deleted member]

It's been two hours, and nobody's made any comment about the theory I made earlier in this page?

Not to sound mean, but the theory kinda sounds like a stretch is probably why.

Min-Min? Yeah, definitely feels like the tying of loose-ends

Pythra? Yeah, the first pass released with Sakurai saying 'Whoops, sorry' to Rex & gave him a costume, so it seems clear they were added now because they couldn't before

Sephiroth? The whole bit about him being part of a package deal to get Cloud back is kind of a rumor and unconfirmed, but even if it were true, then it may be that he was always planned as DLC, so he wasn't really a 'loose-end' as much as an eventuality. I kinda doubt it though.

Steve? I mean I guess? Kinda? I know he was being worked on and 'fought for' in a sense for the last 5 years, but it seems like a stretch.

Then there's the fact that Byleth themselves felt like a 'loose-end' to add a character from the first Switch-era Fire Emblem (making her almost the first of end-tying characters to be added) and the rumor that Byleth was actually constructed partially from the moveset of a character they ended up not getting to include. So was she simply the beginning of a new trend since they knew there'd be a pass 2 or really just a buck in the trend as you imply?

I mean if you're asking if anyone thinks the last character, or last two characters, will both be characters that don't seem like ones that missed the cut-off (and thus not part of this loose-end theory) then yeah; pretty sure everyone is under the assumption that's how it'll be since every other character that was viewed as a 'missed opporunity' has been added now. Not including a Gen 8 pokemon...so I guess an appearance by one of them would be one more point in favor of that theory...other than that though, I don't think there's anyone left so it pretty much guarantees that at least the final character will be brand spankin' new.

 

[CannonStreak]

Good lord I had never seen this before... Thanks for the info!

"Foolish Dingo! You must find and devour the 7 crystal babies, or spend eternity TRAPPED IN DEEP DIDGERIDOO!!!"

Wtf...

Looks like the dingo ate your crystal baby!

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Don't forget about the reference The Simpsons made of Crash.

Like Dash Dingo in that one episode?

When I was a kid, I kind of used to think "Bandicoot" was Crash's last name and that he was actually a "Dingo" because the game's was based off of mostly Australian wildlife and also because I'm a big "Simpsons" fan and it was my favorite cartoon growing up so anything like this from them made me believe it.

Crap someone beat me to it.

 

[Technomage]

Not to sound mean, but the theory kinda sounds like a stretch is probably why.

Min-Min? Yeah, definitely feels like the tying of loose-ends

Pythra? Yeah, the first pass released with Sakurai saying 'Whoops, sorry' to Rex & gave him a costume, so it seems clear they were added now because they couldn't before

Sephiroth? The whole bit about him being part of a package deal to get Cloud back is kind of a rumor and unconfirmed, but even if it were true, then it may be that he was always planned as DLC, so he wasn't really a 'loose-end' as much as an eventuality. I kinda doubt it though.

Steve? I mean I guess? Kinda? I know he was being worked on and 'fought for' in a sense for the last 5 years, but it seems like a stretch.

Then there's the fact that Byleth themselves felt like a 'loose-end' to add a character from the first Switch-era Fire Emblem (making her almost the first of end-tying characters to be added) and the rumor that Byleth was actually constructed partially from the moveset of a character they ended up not getting to include. So was she simply the beginning of a new trend since they knew there'd be a pass 2 or really just a buck in the trend as you imply?

I mean if you're asking if anyone thinks the last character, or last two characters, will both be characters that don't seem like ones that missed the cut-off (and thus not part of this loose-end theory) then yeah; pretty sure everyone is under the assumption that's how it'll be since every other character that was viewed as a 'missed opporunity' has been added now. Not including a Gen 8 pokemon...so I guess an appearance by one of them would be one more point in favor of that theory...other than that though, I don't think there's anyone left so it pretty much guarantees that at least the final character will be brand spankin' new.

Interesting points, though I gotta add that there is a second character that could be a loose-ends thing: A Sonic character, especially one from Sonic Forces. That could hurt the chances of my theory winning a bit, I will admit.

Also, the reason I consider Sephy a loose end is because Final Fantasy was in desperate need of some essential content.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Looks like the dingo ate your crystal baby!

Thanks for giving me a Cursed Mental Image(TM)...

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Yes, I think there's a chance one of the DLC characters might break its pass's current trend (just like how Byleth broke its pass's trend).

We could have a "Only popular in the west" trend breaker. I know who I'd put my money on for that.

Time to Split!

 

[CannonStreak]

Thanks for giving me a Cursed Mental Image(TM)...

No problem! At your service!

 

[chocolatejr9]

Interesting points, though I gotta add that there is a second character that could be a loose-ends thing: A Sonic character, especially one from Sonic Forces.

Would Dragalia Lost count as tying up a loose-end?

Yes, I still think Euden has a chance. Don't judge me.

 

[Technomage]

We could have a "Only popular in the west" trend breaker. I know who I'd put my money on.

Time to Split!

View attachment 311414

Ah, that's a great theory, too!

Also, as unique as a First-person shooter character would be if added to Smash, what'd make Cortez even more unique is his timelord powers. Cool!

Would Dragalia Lost count as tying up a loose-end?

Yes, I still think Euden has a chance. Don't judge me.

I do not know a thing about Dragalia, so what would make it and Euden a loose end?

 

[SpectreJordan]

Ubisoft is weird because when we talk about third party we usually talk about the biggest of each developpers (like Monster hunter and DMC for Capcom, Elder scrolls or Doom for Bethesda etc.). But for Ubisoft cases, the biggest franchise are rarely, if ever discussed (which are Just dance, Assassin's creed, Far cry and Tom Clancy's) but Rayman is by far the most discussed and more popular in the Smash community. While Rayman could be possible, the fact that Assassin's got a mii make me think that our first Ubisoft rep might be from this franchise considering how huge it is. Personally, I don't think we're going to see any Ubisoft characters in Ultimate because of the mii, but I think that it will be a developpers to keep an eye on for the next game, especially if they will want to add more Western characters.

Tbf, Ubisoft pushes for Rayman in Smash theirselves. They were the ones who sent Sakurai the Rayman model in Smash 4 & I assume they pushed for his Spirit too. There was also the thing last year with their AI stating that they want Rayman in Smash, I don’t think they did that with anyone else.

I personally want Ezio the most out of Ubisoft’s library, but Rayman would be cool.