Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Mushroomguy12]

I wonder if Diddy would be higher if that tag team idea with Dixie worked out in Brawl.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, I don't get how a character becoming more commonly predicted or becoming more "safe" could make one not like or want a character anymore.

I could understand a little bit of the magic being lost, as something having an "underdog/surprise factor" can make things a bit more exciting.

But, if you really like/want a character, then a good chunk of other people also wanting/liking or expecting a character really shouldn't be that much of a deterrent.

It can’t really make me not want a character that I wanted initially but it sometimes tilts things from me being neutral to not wanting a character. It’s happened with Geno, Rayman, Cinderace, Decidueye, Chorus Kids, and Waluigi. I don’t really mind the characters themselves but I wanted them less and less the more people speculated on them. I’m not really sure why that is and I admit it doesn’t really make any sense.

 

[SharkLord]

Yeah, I don't get how a character becoming more commonly predicted or becoming more "safe" could make one not like or want a character anymore.

I could understand a little bit of the magic being lost, as something having an "underdog/surprise factor" can make things a bit more exciting.

But, if you really like/want a character, then a good chunk of other people also wanting/liking or expecting a character really shouldn't be that much of a deterrent.

I think the real issue is people just not being interested in a character in the first place, so it gets irritating to hear their name mentioned on a loop over and over again. It's like if a song you don't have any strong feelings towards keeps popping up on the radio, it either grows on you or you get sick of it, and I think the latter happens pretty often in Smash spec (Not to say the former isn't true as well, though).

I think the problem is that people either don't word their explanation well or just focus on the popularity too much, and and they make it out to be "popular bad" or "Speculators physically cannot predict someone accurately," which aren't good ways of looking at it. At least, that's what it seems like to me.

 

[Gengar84]

I think the real issue is people just not being interested in a character in the first place, so it gets irritating to hear their name mentioned on a loop over and over again. It's like if a song you don't have any strong feelings towards keeps popping up on the radio, it either grows on you or you get sick of it, and I think the latter happens pretty often in Smash spec (Not to say the former isn't true as well, though).

I think the problem is that people either don't word their explanation well or just focus on the popularity too much, and and they make it out to be "popular bad" or "Speculators physically cannot predict someone accurately," which aren't good ways of looking at it. At least, that's what it seems like to me.

I think you summarized my thoughts perfectly.

Even if I don’t want a character, I’m not going to get upset if they get in. Steve was probably my least wanted character but I know Minecraft is really popular was still happy for his fans.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Yeah, but Nintendo called Byleth iconic so point is mute. I just want a 2000’s Third Party that isn’t overly predicted...........

I feel like that's Nintendo trying to toot their own horn in a description seeing how that's a 1st party rep where as it wasn't the headliner for like Crash Bandicoot.

Mario and Pikachu video game icons? Absolutely 100%. But Byleth? C'mon Nintendo slow your roll.

Gotta sell the game some sort of way huh? I wouldn't look too deeply into this. Crash used to sort of compete against Nintendo's platformer franchises as Mario and Donkey Kong, so them acknowledging Crash as an icon is only for the best. Otherwise why bother releasing the games on Switch?

The point still stands that Crash Bandicoot is an "Icon".

Crash Bandicoot is only behind Mario, Sonic and Donkey Kong in terms platformer sales.

 

[Deleted member]

Crash Bandicoot is only behind Mario, Sonic and Donkey Kong in terms platformer sales.

maybe so, but he did disappear for 3 console generations. He may be iconic as a retro character, but unless you grew up with a ps1, he’s not going to immediately spring to your mind as an icon like Mario, Sonic, or Pikachu who have had games, merchandise, and exposure continuously since Crash dropped off the radar.

Crash ended up being ‘traded out’ for Jak & Daxter, who then was traded out again for Nathan Drake in the Uncharted Series.

Even in Sony’s own Smash Bros game, it was Jak & Daxter and Drake that were playable; not Crash. Most people would like to see him in due to the old 90’s rivalry, but that’s about it. I don’t think you can fully use sales in his case.

 

[PeridotGX]

I like Diddy Kong a lot as a character, but I can never wrap my head around him in Smash. It doesn't surprise me to see him rank so low on that Japanese poll for that reason, he's kind of a specialized character but not a super flashy one either. He just feels odd to control.

Like, the way I see it, Diddy Kong is a character who feels like he's there because he has to be - not much more or less. He's ****ing Diddy Kong, why wouldn't he be in Smash, but he really just kind of exists. I don't know how I would change this, and certainly there seem to be plenty of people who still do enjoy playing Diddy Kong as he currently is, but I'd like for them to at least give him a bit more flair than the annoying cheese that has given him the spotlight throughout Smash 4. Same could be said about the similarly unpopular Olimar.

I don't think either of these are characters people would ever want gone, nor are they characters who I think would be, but are also not characters who have garnered that much attachment in the realm of general playstyle and exciting gameplay opportunities. So I think they end up being more "forgettable" than anything.

A lot of Brawl's characters are like that. Meta Knight, Wario, Olimar, Diddy, Lucario, etc. are whole-heartedly deserving of a slot, but nobody really plays them because they're really odd to play.

 

[N3ON]

I think the real issue is people just not being interested in a character in the first place, so it gets irritating to hear their name mentioned on a loop over and over again. It's like if a song you don't have any strong feelings towards keeps popping up on the radio, it either grows on you or you get sick of it, and I think the latter happens pretty often in Smash spec (Not to say the former isn't true as well, though).

I think the problem is that people either don't word their explanation well or just focus on the popularity too much, and and they make it out to be "popular bad" or "Speculators physically cannot predict someone accurately," which aren't good ways of looking at it. At least, that's what it seems like to me.

There's no defence for people who shoehorn their most wanted into every conversation, fixate on them and how all roads end in them and will raise them apropos of nothing. Or those who are blind to the sometimes many points that make their choices perhaps not so likely. Of course that's still not the character's fault, but obviously it gets annoying.

On the other hand, for those that enter into the fandom and go, "why do we keep talking about Crash and Sora and Master Chief? Why don't we talk about [niche character I personally want]", it's also sort of on them for not knowing what this mob is about.

But ultimately I stand by what I said before. I get how it's annoying to hear the same names over and over, but talking about a character and getting that character are two vastly different things, and I think letting thoughts of the former bleed into the latter is to your own detriment. If hearing about Waluigi all the time makes getting Waluigi a salty experience, I think you have to take your share of the blame on that one.

At the end of the day if the result of spending time in the discourse is thinking less of characters who didn't actually do anything to warrant the diminished opinion, perhaps it would be worthwhile to devote time elsewhere, so as to not be adversely impacted by the cyclical nature of the discussion.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I like Diddy Kong a lot as a character, but I can never wrap my head around him in Smash. It doesn't surprise me to see him rank so low on that Japanese poll for that reason, he's kind of a specialized character but not a super flashy one either. He just feels odd to control.

Like, the way I see it, Diddy Kong is a character who feels like he's there because he has to be - not much more or less. He's ****ing Diddy Kong, why wouldn't he be in Smash, but he really just kind of exists. I don't know how I would change this, and certainly there seem to be plenty of people who still do enjoy playing Diddy Kong as he currently is, but I'd like for them to at least give him a bit more flair than the annoying cheese that has given him the spotlight throughout Smash 4. Same could be said about the similarly unpopular Olimar.

I don't think either of these are characters people would ever want gone, nor are they characters who I think would be, but are also not characters who have garnered that much attachment in the realm of general playstyle and exciting gameplay opportunities. So I think they end up being more "forgettable" than anything.

I've actually seen a cool moveset rework concept for Diddy Kong that actually goes beyond him being on the roster just because he kind of has to be. It gives him a lot more personality both literally and in playstyle. It's in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIbGfd07KRo

 

[Louie G.]

A lot of Brawl's characters are like that. Meta Knight, Wario, Olimar, Diddy, Lucario, etc. are whole-heartedly deserving of a slot, but nobody really plays them because they're really odd to play.

Yeah, it does seem to be a bit of a pattern for these characters. Some like Pit, Zero Suit, Dedede and ROB hold up nicely on account of some substantial changes (or minor, how much did ROB really change? I don't remember), but others that haven't seen a super drastic change in form end up feeling a bit irregular.

Lucario in particular just feels weak IMO (and I've got my own opinions on his core design philosophy), and Meta Knight... I love him, but considering his original design was so overpowering I think it's naturally gonna feel weird to have him reeled back from that initial form that he was created around. Toon Link also feels kind of awkward and floaty, IMO. And yeah, I hardly see any of these guys played which is so unfortunate.

I think Wario is fine, and I know he gets a fair bit of play in Ultimate too, but I know his moveset has been a topic of contention for ages so you may as well throw him in there just because. Talking about this reminds me how much I'd like to see more proper character reworks.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly even as a fan of the DKC series whom was excited to get Diddy in Brawl, I've never really liked how he played all that much. A lot of the issue is that the moveset felt based off of DK64 or wholly original stuff like the banana peel rather than taking elements from the Country titles. Basically a lot of his stuff just doesn't feel satisfying to hit with and after seeing how well K Rool came out, I can't help but think a Diddy more heavily faithful to thee SNES titles (or even the newer Country games) would probably be more memorable.

 

[Dan Quixote]

Honestly even as a fan of the DKC series whom was excited to get Diddy in Brawl, I've never really liked how he played all that much. A lot of the issue is that the moveset felt based off of DK64 or wholly original stuff like the banana peel rather than taking elements from the Country titles. Basically a lot of his stuff just doesn't feel satisfying to hit with and after seeing how well K Rool came out, I can't help but think a Diddy more heavily faithful to thee SNES titles (or even the newer Country games) would probably be more memorable.

Totally my opinion here. I realize that trying to make every single move in a character's arsenal an overt reference to their home series would probably lead to awkward movesets, but Diddy Kong just seems a little too original. So much of his attacks just feel like general monkey things instead of Diddy Kong. They couldn't even get all his special moves to be references. Diddy really doesn't seem like the type of monkey who'd wildly scratch at a person he's latched onto like he does in Monkey Flip. It's a shame because his idle animations, taunts, victory animations all seem very Diddy, so they clearly appreciate the character. Maybe they could fix this by going back with the original rumored idea of doing a tag team with Dixie.

 

[Gengar84]

Honestly even as a fan of the DKC series whom was excited to get Diddy in Brawl, I've never really liked how he played all that much. A lot of the issue is that the moveset felt based off of DK64 or wholly original stuff like the banana peel rather than taking elements from the Country titles. Basically a lot of his stuff just doesn't feel satisfying to hit with and after seeing how well K Rool came out, I can't help but think a Diddy more heavily faithful to thee SNES titles (or even the newer Country games) would probably be more memorable.

I’ve always said the same thing about Diddy as I do now about Dixie: I wish they had either gone with a tag moveset or utilized the animal buddies. Now that Diddy is already an established Smash character, it’s too late to pair him with Dixie so I’ll have to settle with Dixie and Kiddy if I want a DK team mechanic. I think either Dixie/Kiddy or Dixie and animal buddies would make for a really fun unique moveset and represent DKC better than Diddy currently does.

Diddy’s victory screen really should have been his boom box when he clears a stage in DKC 2 and I still hope Dixie gets the guitar victory screen.

 

[SKX31]

I like Diddy Kong a lot as a character, but I can never wrap my head around him in Smash. It doesn't surprise me to see him rank so low on that Japanese poll for that reason, he's kind of a specialized character but not a super flashy one either. He just feels odd to control.

Like, the way I see it, Diddy Kong is a character who feels like he's there because he has to be - not much more or less. He's ****ing Diddy Kong, why wouldn't he be in Smash, but he really just kind of exists. I don't know how I would change this, and certainly there seem to be plenty of people who still do enjoy playing Diddy Kong as he currently is, but I'd like for them to at least give him a bit more flair than the annoying cheese that has given him the spotlight throughout Smash 4. Same could be said about the similarly unpopular Olimar.

I don't think either of these are characters people would ever want gone, nor are they characters who I think would be, but are also not characters who have garnered that much attachment in the realm of general playstyle and exciting gameplay. So I think they end up being more "forgettable" than anything.

I think some of this may have something to do with the fact that Diddy originally was supposed to have some flair: he was supposed to be apart of a tag team gimmick with Dixie in Brawl, in reference to DKC2. But as we all know, technical limitations prevented this and they just made Diddy his own standalone character.

I always felt the Banana Peel move was just done as a quick and easy replacement for what was originally just going to be the special that would tag Diddy and Dixie in/out.

He's a case where he had quite some powerful stuff in Brawl and 4... but Sakurai and co. toned those aspects down. So now Diddy plays quite differently. I mean, they nerfed Banana Peel multiple times throughout 4 and Ultimate just to be sure that they could remove any and all infinites involving them. He doesn't have the sheer range on his attacks he used to - nor does he have air speed, so he relies a lot more on Monkey Flip if he wants to move quickly through the air.

The thing about him now is that he is very technical. And that's a fair thing to note here - technical characters are not favored by casuals because the reward doesn't appear as high as simpler characters. That's why he feels odd to control (admittedly to myself as well) - it takes time to get used to how he moves. The same goes for many other characters that are low on the Japanese list like , and . And I do believe that many respondents took that survey as a "Favorite character to play in Ultimate" question because characters like , and ranked very highly.

Still though, there are quite a few things he has that's not instantly apparent, but very valuable once one gets to an intermediate level with him:

* Monkey Flip might be his only way to quickly approach in the air, but is a great tool to make people guess - is the Diddy going for the grab or the kick? Plus it has added utility as a evasive maneuver / recovery help. If you land with a Monkey Flip on the edge you can mix it up by jumping backwards, for example.

* He has a surprisingly solid pressure game - several of his attacks pop opponents upwards such as his dash attack (as do a couple of his throws), and he's good at sticking to a target in the air.

* Yeah, Banana Peel might not be the most original of ideas - but it gives Diddy a lot of utility by just throwing it whereever he needs it to be. Not just directly at the opponent, but also to help cover him or something else.

And he has flair. There's just a pretty damn high skill floor on it - Diddy Kong mentioned Tweek, who's pretty much ridicoulously good with every character on the roster it seems. He can make Diddy look like he's incredibly hard to hit:

So currently Diddy's in the same boat as where it's not instantly apparent to the casual eye what makes him tick - and again, that's a fair thing to say. Those willing to invest the time in him though find out that he's very good at offense and evasion alike. Even if he struggles with KOing and can have issues with CQC sometimes, there's a lot of stuff he has.

A lot of Brawl's characters are like that. Meta Knight, Wario, Olimar, Diddy, Lucario, etc. are whole-heartedly deserving of a slot, but nobody really plays them because they're really odd to play.

Yeah, it does seem to be a bit of a pattern for these characters. Some like Pit, Zero Suit, Dedede and ROB hold up nicely on account of some substantial changes (or minor, how much did ROB really change?), but others that haven't seen a super drastic change in form end up feeling a bit irregular. Lucario in particular just feels weak IMO, and Meta Knight... I love him, but considering his original design was so overpowering I think it's naturally gonna feel weird to have him reeled back from that initial form that he was created around. Toon Link also feels kind of awkward and floaty, IMO.

I think Wario is fine, and I know he gets a fair bit of play in Ultimate too, but I know his moveset has been a topic of contention for ages so you may as well throw him in there just because. Talking about this reminds me how much I'd like to see more proper character reworks.

Now that you mention it.. huh. Never thought of that. Several of those characters have strange movement quirks ( glides around all over the place for example thanks to his really fast air speed) that take quite a while to get used to. It's partly due to Brawl itself having a very floaty engine and slow aerial momentum compared to other Smash games, and partly because their "stats" - such as they were - were initially made with Brawl's engine in mind. Neither , nor have much if any horizontal aerial momentum because of their multiple jumps + Up B, neither does despite it not having multiple mid air jumps (although ROB has several aerials that alter its aerial momentum and can serve as recovery aid).

The usage of those characters are also generally very "top-heavy": that is, you don't find a lot of casual players using them, but the ones that do generally stick hard to the characters and become specialists. has not changed in terms of moves, but is very popular nowadays in large part thanks to small changes making it very easy to use + bandwagon effect from notable players using it.

Honestly even as a fan of the DKC series whom was excited to get Diddy in Brawl, I've never really liked how he played all that much. A lot of the issue is that the moveset felt based off of DK64 or wholly original stuff like the banana peel rather than taking elements from the Country titles. Basically a lot of his stuff just doesn't feel satisfying to hit with and after seeing how well K Rool came out, I can't help but think a Diddy more heavily faithful to thee SNES titles (or even the newer Country games) would probably be more memorable.

Totally my opinion here. I realize that trying to make every single move in a character's arsenal an overt reference to their home series would probably lead to awkward movesets, but Diddy Kong just seems a little too original. So much of his attacks just feel like general monkey things instead of Diddy Kong. They couldn't even get all his special moves to be references. Diddy really doesn't seem like the type of monkey who'd wildly scratch at a person he's latched onto like he does in Monkey Flip. It's a shame because his idle animations, taunts, victory animations all seem very Diddy, so they clearly appreciate the character. Maybe they could fix this by going back with the original rumored idea of doing a tag team with Dixie.

Honestly, that's a fair thing to say. While I did defend Diddy's implementation to a large extent above, I honestly have suspected that Diddy's moveset might've been kept simple to help facilitate the tag-teaming, but the tag teaming was scrapped: having a character following around + visible but not interactable in the background might've taxed the Brawl engine or Wii RAM somewhat fierce. Worth remembering this was the time when 's and 's transformation took a couple seconds just to load.

I do see where you two are coming from. Again, since Diddy's currently a very technical character there's not a whole lot to instantly "Wow" people over, and the introduction of more faithful movesets does highlight the issue of him not feeling like a particularily well-suited representative from a casual eye. But if I were to suggest, maybe import the Chimpy Charge and other moves from DK64? I mean, they recreated a bloody Final Smash from that game.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

maybe so, but he did disappear for 3 console generations. He may be iconic as a retro character, but unless you grew up with a ps1, he’s not going to immediately spring to your mind as an icon like Mario, Sonic, or Pikachu who have had games, merchandise, and exposure continuously since Crash dropped off the radar.

Crash ended up being ‘traded out’ for Jak & Daxter, who then was traded out again for Nathan Drake in the Uncharted Series.

Even in Sony’s own Smash Bros game, it was Jak & Daxter and Drake that were playable; not Crash. Most people would like to see him in due to the old 90’s rivalry, but that’s about it. I don’t think you can fully use sales in his case.

There is so much wrong with this post I am going to dissect it piece by piece

First off, One generation. He disappeared for one. From 2008-2016. Even if Crash was in a minor slump akin to Sonic, saying he disappeared is just wrong. Crash still did ok for himself. Crash as a franchise sold over 60 million units after N Sane. Over 10 from N Sane , ~22 million on the PS1 iirc. By basic math, that’s not sitting out a generation, even if the games are not as remembered as the ps1 ones.

Furthermore, I’d argue that Crash’s massive success with N Sane proves how much of an icon he is. 10 million in sales primarily from the PS4 (the sales number im mainly citing came from June 2018, when it went multi plat for less than three months and it undoubtedly has sold more since). For a franchise to have that big of a revival despite “being dead and having no merch” is a huge feat.

Crash was not “traded out” for Jak and Uncharted. NaughtyDog no longer had the rights. The rights always laid with Universal.

Crash was not in PSABR because that game had the budget of a ham sandwich. They got Donte instead of Dante, Heihachi but only the young one to shill Tag Tournament, Raiden but not Snake to shill Revengence, and so on. The game is well known for not having the money to get big third parties for it like Crash, Snake, Lara Croft, and Cloud. Even then, we can clearly see that with what they did get, they had little agency, look at Heihachi being the young one instead of his iconic appearance or Donte. Heck, the game didn’t even get the money to finish its planned DLC.

It’s fine to not want a character, but don’t say blatantly wrong things and make such a bad argument.

 

[SNEKeater]

Crash was not “traded out” for Jak and Uncharted. NaughtyDog no longer had the rights. The rights always laid with Universal.

Actually they never had the rights of the series and neither did Sony. The franchise was owned by Universal. The PS One games were product of a partnership between Universal, Sony and Naughty Dog, which at the time was an independent studio. Once the deal/partnership finished, Universal kept being the owner of the IP until Vivendi bought them, and then eventually Vivendi merged with Activision.

 

[Dinoman96]

I still honestly think Crash's lack of contemporary popularity in Japan may be what's holding him back. It took until Minecraft to become a ginormous hit in Japan and the rest of the world for NCL to finally be interested in including a western property with a full blown character in Smash. In turn this opened the door for Banjo who had both the backing of Phil Spencer and the core Smash fandom via the Smash Ballot from 2015 (whereas Crash only started becoming popular again in 2017).

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

maybe so, but he did disappear for 3 console generations. He may be iconic as a retro character, but unless you grew up with a ps1, he’s not going to immediately spring to your mind as an icon like Mario, Sonic, or Pikachu who have had games, merchandise, and exposure continuously since Crash dropped off the radar.

Crash ended up being ‘traded out’ for Jak & Daxter, who then was traded out again for Nathan Drake in the Uncharted Series.

Even in Sony’s own Smash Bros game, it was Jak & Daxter and Drake that were playable; not Crash. Most people would like to see him in due to the old 90’s rivalry, but that’s about it. I don’t think you can fully use sales in his case.

I agree that while sales aren't everything, I still think it's a good barometer to gauge a character or franchise.

To be fair Sony was able to get the other 2 Naughty Dog creations because they are 1st party while Crash Bandicoot is 3rd party and owned by Activision.

 

[Pillow]

I still honestly think Crash's lack of contemporary popularity in Japan may be what's holding him back. It took until Minecraft to become a ginormous hit in Japan and the rest of the world for NCL to finally be interested in including a western property with a full blown character in Smash. In turn this opened the door for Banjo who had both the backing of Phil Spencer and the core Smash fandom via the Smash Ballot from 2015 (whereas Crash only started becoming popular again in 2017).

While it could hold him back, the same logic applies to literally every Western character. We might not get one, but if we do it's either Crash or Chief.

 

[Dinoman96]

While it could hold him back, the same logic applies to literally every Western character.

Hence why I don't really expect another western character at this point lol

 

[RGFS]

Well of course not all 20 million people are ever going to vote on the same poll. Regardless, that’s a pretty sizable sample of Japan’s fanbase. If certain characters performed well within that small sample, odds are they would perform pretty well in a large sample, too.

Smash Ultimate sold about 3.8 million in Japan. A sample size of 19,700 is minuscule as a sample size in comparison. Considering the sample size is only 0.51% of the players in Japan alone, the odds that the numbers would still be pretty much the same is just crazy. And this is only measuring one region when it's clear Smash considers the whole world.

I still honestly think Crash's lack of contemporary popularity in Japan may be what's holding him back. It took until Minecraft to become a ginormous hit in Japan and the rest of the world for NCL to finally be interested in including a western property with a full blown character in Smash. In turn this opened the door for Banjo who had both the backing of Phil Spencer and the core Smash fandom via the Smash Ballot from 2015 (whereas Crash only started becoming popular again in 2017).

To be fair, when Minecraft was considered for Smash 5 years ago, it was not the biggest game of all time yet, it was around number 3. Either way, Banjo-Kazooie got added first and his Japan popularity is actually lesser than Crash when you consider everything. We already had western characters in Smash beforehand anyway. Considering it's been 4 years since 2017 so Crash blowing up more around that time shouldn't hurt him considering that's when Xenoblade 2 came out.

 

[Dinoman96]

To be fair, when Minecraft was considered for Smash 5 years ago, it was not the biggest game of all time yet, it was around number 3. Either way, Banjo-Kazooie got added first and his Japan popularity is actually lesser than Crash when you consider everything. We already had western characters in Smash beforehand anyway. Considering it's been 4 years since 2017 so Crash blowing up more around that time shouldn't hurt him considering that's when Xenoblade 2 came out.

Banjo did get added first but it's been said that negiotations for Steve had been going on for five years. It's fairly easy to infer that Banjo was a by-product of those negiotations and he got in first because, in addition to gaining further goodwill with the core Smash fandom that asked for Ridley and K. Rool before, he was also helluva alot easier to implement.

Like I said, Banjo had the Smash Ballot to directly show his popularity to Nintendo, whereas Crash didn't really take off until N. Sane Trilogy was announced for Switch in early 2018. He may of came too late for where it really counted.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Crash could very well end up like a lot the extended cast in the Sonic; where it feels its less about hard numbers in regards to their possible financial potential and more that Sakurai and/or Nintendo just seemingly don't have much interest. Activision's antics, a Western franchise, Japanese numbers; it could all very well be secondary to people in the company just lacking any strong desire to include him.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I don't get this mindset at all.
What happens if one of the characters you're currently supporting were to become "overly predicted" in the future?

Some of y'all get too high off of not liking popular things for the sake of it.

Smash Speculation tires me. It’s tiring seeing Crash all over the place as a guarantee which makes me not really want any Highly Speculated Characters.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Smash Ultimate sold about 3.8 million in Japan. A sample size of 19,700 is minuscule as a sample size in comparison. Considering the sample size is only 0.51% of the players in Japan alone, the odds that the numbers would still be pretty much the same is just crazy. And this is only measuring one region when it's clear Smash considers the whole world.

Only 1.8 million people voted in the Smash ballot, while Smash 4 sold well over 10 million copies. Even though the Smash Ballot only gauged a fraction of players’ interests, it still had enough votes to be used for Smash Ultimate.

1.8 mil is obviously much more than 19.7 thousand, but it isn’t wild to think that both sample sizes can still lead to similar results. We know that a lot of Ultimate’s roster was determined by the Smash Ballot, namely characters like K. Rool and Ridley. And if you look at almost any Smash 4 poll with around 10k votes, K. Rool and Ridley will almost always be towards the top. The idea that a small sample size will yield similar results to a large sample size isn’t crazy in the slightest.

 

[cothero]

Hence why I don't really expect another western character at this point lol

The only western character i expect at this point is another one from Microsoft (a.k.a. another character from a company already represented in smash.)

Will Fighter 10 break this trend? We'll see.

 

[SWSU]

Regardless of WHO the Final Character is, I hope that the Final Characters give some variety. Given that of the 10 Fighters, all but one of them are some kind of realistic to semirealistic human character.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Regardless of WHO the Final Character is, I hope that the Final Characters give some variety. Given that of the 10 Fighters, all but one of them are some kind of realistic to semirealistic human character.

Steve: Am I a joke to you?

 

[SWSU]

Steve: Am I a joke to you?

He's Still Human-ish

 

[CannonStreak]

Steve: Am I a joke to you?

That's what I was thinking. Steve isn't exactly realistic.

Still, we have had more humans, realistic or semi-realistic, as you may know. That does make for less variety.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

The characters I bring up often here are those I think have decent reasons to get invited to the roster despite how they are usually seen on the Western side of Smash speculations.
Of course popular in the West always better if I just want to play safe, but then what's the point of me echoing the same characters you see every English speaking YouTubers gush over all the time, so sometimes I'm purposely being biased on the Japan side of views to stir up the speculations.
Actually, I try not to talk much about my real personal wants just because I don't want to jinx them then I just now realized I made my account without thinking ugh.

 

[JOJONumber691]

He's Still Human-ish

Okay. But not a Realistic Human. He’s still far more cartoony than everyone except Banjo and Plant. Besides, if your lack of faith in humanity is the issue, then just play Zombie or Enderman. More diversity would be nice, but a Cartoony Human is still more cartoony than the rest of the Weeb Fest that I love (except Sephiroth and Min Min)

 

[Will]

What do you guys have against scientifically accurate proportions of the human body?

 

[Technomage]

What do you guys have against scientifically accurate proportions of the human body?

Hmmmm, I think it's because they got bored of accurate human proportions.

 

[chocolatejr9]

The characters I bring up often here are those I think have decent reasons to get invited to the roster despite how they are usually seen on the Western side of Smash speculations.
Of course popular in the West always better if I just want to play safe, but then what's the point of me echoing the same characters you see every English speaking YouTubers gush over all the time, so sometimes I'm purposely being biased on the Japan side of views to stir up the speculations.
Actually, I try not to talk much about my real personal wants just because I don't want to jinx them then I just now realized I made my account without thinking ugh.

You know what? Entertain me. What's going on with the Japanese side of things?

 

[Ivander]

What do you guys have against accurate proportions of the human body?

My thoughts exactly when it comes to some artists and female anatomy IYKWIM.

 

[SKX31]

The characters I bring up often here are those I think have decent reasons to get invited to the roster despite how they are usually seen on the Western side of Smash speculations.
Of course popular in the West always better if I just want to play safe, but then what's the point of me echoing the same characters you see every English speaking YouTubers gush over all the time, so sometimes I'm purposely being biased on the Japan side of views to stir up the speculations.
Actually, I try not to talk much about my real personal wants just because I don't want to jinx them then I just now realized I made my account without thinking ugh.

You know what? Entertain me. What's going on with the Japanese side of things?

Well, lets stir up speculation a bit again then:

​

Space Invaders confirmed for Smash.

(Source is an almost year old Smash speculation marathon posted on Nico Nico.)

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Smash Speculation tires me. It’s tiring seeing Crash all over the place as a guarantee which makes me not really want any Highly Speculated Characters.

Your profile pic is Dixie Kong. Her thread has 13K responses. Must be fun throwing stones in glass houses.

Actually they never had the rights of the series and neither did Sony. The franchise was owned by Universal. The PS One games were product of a partnership between Universal, Sony and Naughty Dog, which at the time was an independent studio. Once the deal/partnership finished, Universal kept being the owner of the IP until Vivendi bought them, and then eventually Vivendi merged with Activision.

That was what I was trying to get across but I was on mobile and in a rush. Yeah, people tend to forget how Crash's rights never were owned by Naughty Dog even if they created him.

A lot of Brawl's characters are like that. Meta Knight, Wario, Olimar, Diddy, Lucario, etc. are whole-heartedly deserving of a slot, but nobody really plays them because they're really odd to play.

Brawl probably had the best selection of newcomers, idk if anyone bar Toon Link is going to get too much shade as an inclusion in hindsight. Smash Ultimate has put a lot of the Brawl characters through the ringer in terms of balance though. I mean, it took them until this game for Ike to be viable. Not good, viable. He was so...mediocre in Brawl and 4. I love playing as him, but god did he feel sluggish in 4.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Brawl probably had the biggest selection of newcomers I liked on paper, but just couldn’t get into their play style. Snake got a lot use by me largely because he was an exception.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Cereal Mascot this Anime Swordsman that.

How about a Cereal Swordsman, Banjo was almost that.