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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

BlondeLombax

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Re: Eggman

I think it's interesting how a lot of people saw the Sephiroth reveal trailer and concluded "characters/villains from existing third parties are likely now!" For me it feels very much like Sephiroth is the villain for Fighter Pass 2.
Y'know, it pains me to say it, but from this point on, I feel like Sonic is gonna become the "loser" franchise that Final Fantasy once was with this in mind. Only a single Smash-centric remix from a few games prior, a stage from one of his more contested games, waning presence of personality with his character model, and generally just being plagued with a lot of SEGA's mandates could spell trouble for the blue boi.
 

chocolatejr9

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Y'know, it pains me to say it, but from this point on, I feel like Sonic is gonna become the "loser" franchise that Final Fantasy once was with this in mind. Only a single Smash-centric remix from a few games prior, a stage from one of his more contested games, waning presence of personality with his character model, and generally just being plagued with a lot of SEGA's mandates could spell trouble for the blue boi.
Ain't that the sad truth...
 

Gengar84

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Magus would be fantastic, He is the best possible scenario for a Chrono Trigger rep.

The Battletoads would be a bit lame though.
Magus has always been my personal most wanted character and the Battletoads have always been my brother’s. I do wish Magus got all the attention Geno did. Now that’s a Square-Enix side character from an SNES JRPG I can really get behind lol.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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My uncle works at Nintendo and he told me that the Battletoads and Magus from Chrono Trigger are the next two DLC characters. It’s true because it’s in italics.

please start wanting these characters now
Sorry. I've never really been exposed to the Battletoads, with what little I have seen mostly consisting of watching matches against the ugly abomination that is Killer Instinct Rash, and I would hate Magus as the sole representative of Chrono Trigger about as much as I hate solo Pyra and Mythra as the sole representative of Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

I'll root for Crono though.

Re: Eggman

I think it's interesting how a lot of people saw the Sephiroth reveal trailer and concluded "characters/villains from existing third parties are likely now!" For me it feels very much like Sephiroth is the villain for Fighter Pass 2.
Two camps:
  1. Eggman is now a fairly likely candidate since he's a very likely candidate for a second Sonic the Hedgehog character.
  2. All villains are disconfirmed because Sephiroth.
There is no in-between.
 

Dukefire

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While it is pointless, I will bring up the trailers for the DLC characters for Smash Ultimate.
Pirahna Plant: A bonus Character as the WTF choice, but now as part of the Plant Gang (outdated I think)
Joker: Persona 5 as thieves in their home series. Breaking in and left their card as he was the first one for DLC
Hero: When the Darkest of Times are present, there will be light when all hope seems lost.
Banjo & Kazooie: Bringing back a lost icon from gaming history as King K Rool, Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong all were part of Rareware before the assets split.
Terry: Callback to the entire SNK Company and the history of Terry's home series game.
Byleth: Promotion for Fire Emblem Three Houses as it was the most popular game during the time.
Min Min: ARMS rep and the cheerful sport of long range boxing. Along enjoying Ramen Noodles at the Mintendo Noodle House after the creator decided from either Ninjara or Min Min.
Steve: Highest Popular Game around the world for the creativity of building your own world and was planned in 5 years of development. Plus, blew up twitter upon the reveal.
Sephiroth: lack of FFVII content did lead up to his inevitable arrival. When there is light and a threat you are struggling already, it could be worse for an EVEN more posing threat.
Pyra/Mythra: Another game that was highly requested and eventually Xenoblade Chronicles II did get its wish. Sad that Rex was the cost as his fate was in the Mii Costume since FP1.
???: ???
???: ???

FP3?
Could we get a third pass? I don't really know as it has been 3 years for Ultimate's longevity on DLC. Sakurai did say that he ONLY has two more opportunities to do Sakurai Presents character videos. Now, it is up to you to decide on his words. I can say that DLC may or may not continue, so control the hype until official News is revealed in the next direct.
 

chocolatejr9

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Two camps:
  1. Eggman is now a fairly likely candidate since he's a very likely candidate for a second Sonic the Hedgehog character.
  2. All villains are disconfirmed because Sephiroth.
There is no in-between.
Would that apply to Monokuma if he became the Danganronpa rep?
 

RoboFist

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Messages
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Re: Eggman

I think it's interesting how a lot of people saw the Sephiroth reveal trailer and concluded "characters/villains from existing third parties are likely now!" For me it feels very much like Sephiroth is the villain for Fighter Pass 2.
I get that 100%, but I think a lot of people (myself included) saw Sephiroth's reveal and thought "Wow, our first third-party villain is from FF7! That's...actually kind of odd."

And knowing that the concept of third-party villains is (or was) on the table makes Eggman's/Robotnik's absence feel incredibly glaring. He's Sega's Bowser, a villain who has seen more than his fair share of Nintendo appearances. He really feels like the last great iconic video game villain missing from the roster, and Sephiroth's reveal only magnified that.

Robotnik is my second most-wanted character, but even I know it probably isn't going to happen. But it feels so baffling to so many of us that we had to get vocal haha.

(The more I think about it, the more controversial Sephiroth's inclusion is to me personally. Not just for the "villains club" thing, but also because I would've much rather have seen Chrono, Neku, 2B, Lara, or even Geno.

And at the same time, I absolutely love how Sephiroth plays and I wouldn't want to trade the new FF7 Spirits and music for anything. And the guy is obviously more than deserving as a video game icon. Just also the only pick in FP2 so far that I have extremely mixed feelings about, I guess.)
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Along enjoying Ramen Noodles at the Mintendo Noodle House after the creator decided from either Ninjara or Min Min.
It was never stated that the choice was between Ninjara and Min Min, just that Ninjara was considered.

Would that apply to Monokuma if he became the Danganronpa rep?
Probably. I don't really know what his deal is if the question has to be asked though.
 

Cosmic77

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I don't think Sephiroth being a villain is what led to his inclusion. If I had to take a guess, Nintendo probably felt like he was the "biggest" SE character they could've chosen out of their remaining choices.

That's sort of why I feel like people jumped the gun with Eggman. Nintendo could just as easily request Tails or Knuckles if that's who they thought deserved to be in Smash the most after Sonic. It's not about being a villain; it's about the name the character has built for themselves. With Sonic, I'd say a lot of characters come pretty come close to each other in terms of iconicness.
 

Louie G.

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Re: Eggman

I think it's interesting how a lot of people saw the Sephiroth reveal trailer and concluded "characters/villains from existing third parties are likely now!" For me it feels very much like Sephiroth is the villain for Fighter Pass 2.
Yeah this has always been my perspective on it too.

I do think it’s fair to start considering additional characters for these third party series in general - pretty much just like any other broken barrier we’ve seen - but Sephiroth really does feel like there was an explicit emphasis on drilling him in as the defacto DLC villain. His Classic route and Sephiroth Challenge really hit that home for me.
 
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SonicSmasher1

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I don't think Sephiroth being a villain is what led to his inclusion. If I had to take a guess, Nintendo probably felt like he was the "biggest" SE character they could've chosen out of their remaining choices.

That's sort of why I feel like people jumped the gun with Eggman. Nintendo could just as easily request Tails or Knuckles if that's who they thought deserved to be in Smash the most after Sonic. It's not about being a villain; it's about the name the character has built for themselves. With Sonic, I'd say a lot of characters come pretty come close to each other in terms of iconicness.
Well, while Eggman is not as popular as Shadow or Tails, he did first appear in the first Sonic game along with Sonic himself. Being a villain aside, I would say he is an important, iconic character In his series like Sephiroth is. Doesn’t mean Eggman will get in, though.
 

chocolatejr9

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Probably. I don't really know what his deal is if the question has to be asked though.
I think the deal here is, if Danganronpa were to get a Smash rep, who would it be: one of the protagonists or Monokuma? On the one hand, having a protagonist would better represent Danganronpa's gameplay. On the other hand, Monokuma IS Danganronpa. Nine times out of ten, when people think Danganronpa, they think the murderous teddy bear who's in charge of the whole thing.

Me, personally? While I would prefer Monokuma, I'd be okay with any Danganronpa content in Smash. Seriously, the music alone makes it a good deal.
 

Blackmage Kuja

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People really jumped the bandwagon on Eggman after Sephiroth's reveal. Not saying he won't happen but with only two slots left I don't see his chances being very good as I don't think they're gonna double-dip on two villains.

With that said though I'd love for him as he'd be very fun and interesting to play, we definitely could use another mech user.
I'm not so sure it was so much a bandwagon thing as it was more of a hope renewed. We hadn't gotten a second third party rep from the same series yet (barring Ken, but he was an Echo) let alone a Villain as DLC, so once Sephiroth dropped, everyone already in support of Eggman felt free to voice their support because it didn't seem like an impossibility anymore.

It's not like Sephiroth being added made people go 'Oh, now Eggman can be added too!" It was more like "Oh, if Sephiroth got in, maybe there IS a chance that Eggman is in too since we can get 3rd party villain reps from the same franchise already in!!"
 

Technomage

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FP3?
Could we get a third pass? I don't really know as it has been 3 years for Ultimate's longevity on DLC. Sakurai did say that he ONLY has two more opportunities to do Sakurai Presents character videos. Now, it is up to you to decide on his words. I can say that DLC may or may not continue, so control the hype until official News is revealed in the next direct.
Yeah, I wouldn't really get my hopes up for a third Fighters Pass, not only due to what Sakurai said about the Sakurai Presents trailer, but he also said months ago that there are CURRENTLY no plans for another FP.

However, with that in mind, he didn't say that he wouldn't change his mind later on, or that after FP2, Sakurai wouldn't hand leadership of Ultimate to someone else (who'd potentially be able to do more DLCs).
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I don't think Sephiroth being a villain is what led to his inclusion. If I had to take a guess, Nintendo probably felt like he was the "biggest" SE character they could've chosen out of their remaining choices.

That's sort of why I feel like people jumped the gun with Eggman. Nintendo could just as easily request Tails or Knuckles if that's who they thought deserved to be in Smash the most after Sonic. It's not about being a villain; it's about the name the character has built for themselves. With Sonic, I'd say a lot of characters come pretty come close to each other in terms of iconicness.
I wouldn't say people have jumped the gun with Dr. Eggman, but I do agree that he's basically on the same page as the entire consistent cast (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, and of course, Dr. Eggman).

I think the deal here is, if Danganronpa were to get a Smash rep, who would it be: one of the protagonists or Monokuma? On the one hand, having a protagonist would better represent Danganronpa's gameplay. On the other hand, Monokuma IS Danganronpa. Nine times out of ten, when people think Danganronpa, they think the murderous teddy bear who's in charge of the whole thing.

Me, personally? While I would prefer Monokuma, I'd be okay with any Danganronpa content in Smash. Seriously, the music alone makes it a good deal.
That makes me think that there's a high chance that a Danganrompa character would be a protagonist with a stage that's just a vehicle for Monokuma being Monokuma.

I wouldn't count the bear out, but that's just my initial feeling.
 

3BitSaurus

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Tbh, Eggman did get a bit more spotlight because he's an extremely iconic villain like Sephiroth, but to me it was more along the lines of "now we can get iconic characters from repped 3rd parties too".

Characters like Zero, Alucard and especially Chun-Li also saw a bit of a rise after Sephiroth's reveal. I'd wager these picks might actually be more talked about whenever Smash 6 base game speculation begins, too.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I think Sephiroth was included because he is Sephiroth.

He wasn't there to fill a quota or anything, at least as far as we know.
That's not really the argument here. It's more that Sephiroth having such an emphasis on his villainy is a definitive sign that there no other villains were selected.

I don't agree with that argument, but that's what it is.
 

Gazorpazorpfield

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With Square-Enix there's the possibility that Sephiroth was their request, at the risk of sounding cynical. What with FF7R coming out I could see them wanting to prioritize him over the likes of 2B or Neku, even if Nintendo themselves would have wanted to lean into that "New Worlds" thing they were on about.

Sephiroth's a great add either way tho, so the ends justify the means anyway
 

Dukefire

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If you think about the sonic series, Sonic has a good amount of representation of spirit, music tracks, Mii Costumes, Knuckles as Assist Trophy and his classic mode references. Eggman may be considered, but there is a decent amount of content for the sonic series
 

SonicSmasher1

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Well, if Eggman has any chance of getting in, this year is Sonic’s 30th anniversary, so that might help, if giving only a small chance.
 

Michael the Spikester

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With Square-Enix there's the possibility that Sephiroth was their request, at the risk of sounding cynical. What with FF7R coming out I could see them wanting to prioritize him over the likes of 2B or Neku, even if Nintendo themselves would have wanted to lean into that "New Worlds" thing they were on about.

Sephiroth's a great add either way tho, so the ends justify the means anyway
Part of me also feels that Cloud only came back for Ultimate under the condition Sephiroth was added.
 

Dukefire

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Anniversaries doesn't really mean much for a character's chances. Like Doom's Birthday on December when the VGA was arriving. Sephiroth was revealed there and we can all agree that his reveal was a Huge impact as not a lot was expecting him.
 

Dinoman96

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Part of me also feels that Cloud only came back for Ultimate under the condition Sephiroth was added.
Yeah it kinda almost feels like that Square-Enix just wanted Cloud to be DLC all over again, but obviously Nintendo/Sakurai wanted him back for the base game in the name of "Everyone is Here!". So the compromise was that Sephiroth would be DLC with the majority of Final Fantasy's additional content (spirits, music, Mii outfits).
 

Speed Weed

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If you think about the sonic series, Sonic has a good amount of representation of spirit, music tracks, Mii Costumes, Knuckles as Assist Trophy and his classic mode references. Eggman may be considered, but there is a decent amount of content for the sonic series
Sonic is in this weird situation where the series technically has a pretty good amount of content - but a lot of that content feels kinda uninspired

So like, people are less annoyed at the quantity and moreso at the quality
 
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Michael the Spikester

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Anniversaries doesn't really mean much for a character's chances. Like Doom's Birthday on December when the VGA was arriving. Sephiroth was revealed there and we can all agree that his reveal was a Huge impact as not a lot was expecting him.
One could argue his reveal there was in response when Final Fantasy first released in December of 1987.
 
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RileyXY1

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Part of me also feels that Cloud only came back for Ultimate under the condition Sephiroth was added.
More like him being on the base roster. I think that had Sephiroth not been added Cloud would have been DLC again and there would be no "Everyone is Here".
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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And with this, we have hit all of the beats:

"Dr. Eggman would be cool."
"He's out of the running. They made it clear that Sephiroth is the villain for this DLC"
"lol bandwagons, amirite?"
"What? He's got a ton of merrit!"
"What makes the idea of Eggman better is that he would come with more quality Sonic content."
"lol Sonic already has a ton of content. It's fine as is."
"Excuse you, I said quality, not quantity."
"You guys are jumping the gun on a second character from a 3rd party series. Sephiroth was clearly an exception brought on by an agreement to get Cloud in the base roster even though that makes no logistical sense."
 

SKX31

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I think Sephiroth was included because he is Sephiroth.

He wasn't there to fill a quota or anything, at least as far as we know.
I kinda get the impression he was also included because of his sheer destructive potential - something which isn't that common amongst the DLC we've gotten so far. While it may not be a primary aspect, it's worth noting that Sakurai showed off ways to follow up on Gigaflare. One of those follow-ups is regularily used by pros using him (Gigaflare -> F-Smash).

Out of the DLC, I can only think of :ulthero: and maybe :ultbyleth: as coming remotely close to Sephiroth's "whoops you approached me a bit too recklessly I'll give you dis pear and blow you up".

Sonic is in this weird situation where the series technically has a pretty good amount of content - but a lot of that content feels kinda uninspired
And honestly it kinda feels like a lot of said content was out of the promotional angle (Windy Hill being added in Smash 4 when Lost World was current, a few of the Sonic stuff introduced in Ultimate being from Mania / Forces, etc.). It also sucks since it was a missed opportunity to include more stuff - especially from games like Colors / Generations / other games.
 
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Gengar84

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Sorry. I've never really been exposed to the Battletoads, with what little I have seen mostly consisting of watching matches against the ugly abomination that is Killer Instinct Rash, and I would hate Magus as the sole representative of Chrono Trigger about as much as I hate solo Pyra and Mythra as the sole representative of Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

I'll root for Crono though.


Two camps:
  1. Eggman is now a fairly likely candidate since he's a very likely candidate for a second Sonic the Hedgehog character.
  2. All villains are disconfirmed because Sephiroth.
There is no in-between.
No need to apologize. I understand that everyone is different and entitled to their own opinions. I agree that Rash’s Killer Instict design is kind of disappointing but I understand that they had to do it to fit the style of the game. Their best designs were on the Super Nintendo with Battlemaniacs. Their arcade designs are pretty similar to this as well. I’m pretty confident Sakurai would go with those designs instead of KI or the reboot based on Mega Man, Simon, Banjo and others.

As for Magus, that’s a totally reasonable stance to prefer getting the main character before anyone else. I think I’m just in the minority in caring more about the individual characters themselves rather than thinking of them as representing their game or series. I think Smash’s roster would be more interesting and varied if it didn’t limit itself to only the main protagonist. That’s how we ended up with so many similar Fire Emblem characters (well that and clones take a lot less work). I think most would rather have Crono and it does make the most sense.
 

Dukefire

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We can point out many things for a possible hint, but most of us can agree that Nintendo and Sakurai is keeping the speculation dry to retain the surprises. Of course, it is the smash speculation cycle for the Internet.

It is all business when it comes to doing the collaboration of Smash Ultimate being one of Nintendo's highest income. So, fan requests and reactions are either somewhat or little presence to factor. I still remember the time when a lot was invested on the Smash Ballot back then for Smash 4, only to receive Bayonetta as the last DLC in 2016. Which the reaction was a mixed bag and a salt fest for Smash 4's DLC finale (me included for rooting a certain Half-Genie).
 

SNEKeater

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I personally don't care much about Sonic but if we were to get another character (which I think will eventually happen, by the way) I'd prefer Tails.

Though I totally understand the complains or the comments about the quality of the content Sonic currently has. I had a similar stance with FFVII content before Sephiroth, and now I have a similar feeling with Donkey Kong and Metroid, to name a few series.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I agree that Rash’s Killer Instict design is kind of disappointing but I understand that they had to do it to fit the style of the game.
From what I've been told, the design is supposed to poke fun at the Michael Bay TMNT movies, which is mildly amusing. Still butt ugly though.

As for Magus, that’s a totally reasonable stance to prefer getting the main character before anyone else. I think I’m just in the minority in caring more about the individual characters themselves rather than thinking of them as representing their game or series. I think Smash’s roster would be more interesting and varied if it didn’t limit itself to only the main protagonist. That’s how we ended up with so many similar Fire Emblem characters (well that and clones take a lot less work). I think most would rather have Crono and it does make the most sense.
The problem lies mostly with small and rotating cast series. Small series usually only get 1 character and rotating cast series rack up so many important characters that they can't keep up let alone add some of the lesser ones.

Heck, you can't even add freaking Tiki because there are too many bases that need covering first.
 

TheCJBrine

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I think Steve’s moveset is very fun, and I am attached to him as a character. A mii costume would’ve been disappointing, though at least he would’ve been represented like Sans etc. but it still would’ve been disappointing as I was expecting him as a fighter which is much cooler. Sans would’ve also been hype as a fighter, but I guess I’m okay with him being a mii because he being a fighter didn’t seem very realistic as much as I thought Undertale had some chance and may still (but still not really realistic I guess).

Yes, no different than others being made mii costumes, but he certainly wouldn’t be better off as one nor would any other characters. Tbh I probably would’ve been fine with Steve as a mii at the end of the day, just disappointed he didn’t become a fighter, though my experience with Steve haters and all the arguments would’ve made a mii hurt more tbh. I guess it’d also hurt anyway as a big Minecraft fan but probably wouldn’t as much if I didn’t let myself get involved with arguments and stuff in the Smash fandom and speculation. His reveal was a very happy day.

As for the more-recent discussion...I think a new Sonic character would be awesome, personally I’d go for Tails but Eggman and Shadow would be very cool, too.
 
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DarthEnderX

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Salty haters going "nobody plays Minecraft for Steve" is so funny to me because it implies people play video games only for their protagonist. And by this logic, Metroid Prime Pinball should be considered as equally good as the Prime trilogy.
Conversely, Erdrick was one of my most wanted characters for Smash. But I don't play him at all, because his mechanics are terrible.

Even if I had desperately wanted Steve in Smash, I still wouldn't be playing him, because his gameplay makes him unplayable to me. And he's unplayable to me, for the same reason Hero is, because they were too good a "representation" of their series, and included mechanics that make them awful to play, instead of just being good Smash characters.

Which is why, when I want to play as Dragon Quest in Smash, I play Erdrick Armor Swordfighter, not Hero.
 
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SharkLord

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Sonic is in this weird situation where the series technically has a pretty good amount of content - but a lot of that content feels kinda uninspired

So like, people are less annoyed at the quantity and moreso at the quality
Yeah, that's what sucks about Sonic's situation. He already has a sizeable amount of content, and it seems like Nintendo would be fine with just letting him stay the way he is... But on the other hand, not all of that content is really the best, namely the rather uninspired moveset and the redundancy of Green Hill and Windy Hill (Even if I like Windy Hill's layout better, it would be better to have a more distinct stage, like Chemical Plant or the Death Egg). As such, we're just kinda stuck with it.
 
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