Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm gonna say it every time it comes up: for Smash 6, just do a villain game with just the, like, twelve-ish villains we already have and a bunch more new ones. That's how you fit new characters into a smaller roster while making it not feel like a downgrade and making cuts sting less.

I don't think a Super Smash Bros. game without the fundamentals of the roster (inarguably: Mario, Link, Kirby, Pikachu, etc.) would rightfully be considered a core Super Smash Bros. game.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

This may be an unpopular opinion but I’m more than okay with Ultimate Deluxe/Encore. You’d have most of your work cut out for you, just make tweaks to the existing characters as necessary, maybe tweak some side single player content as well. I feel there’s a LOT of the single player side that could use heavy modifications

heck, more single player content aside from what we got would be amazing and add to more replay value

 

[DarthEnderX]

A Smash Bros. game consisting of villains (assuming that not even rivals or anti-heroes would make it in). I do wonder what that game would be called? Maybe Super Smash Frenemies?

Rivals of Aeth-, er, Smash.

This may be an unpopular opinion but I’m more than okay with Ultimate Deluxe/Encore.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

There's two things I'm sure of in the situation that the next Smash has roster cuts. The first is that FE will be trimmed down (if only just by one or two characters), and the second is that not all of the Links will come back. I wouldn't be surprised if only one Link came back, and he become a middle ground between all the ones that exist right now. Or in different terms, a slightly faster and slightly shorter Smash 4 Link.

 

[SharkLord]

Another reason I want a Smash 6 over a Smash Ultimate Deluxe is the stages. SSBU's stage selection has a lot of fat to be trimmed down, not the least of which being the many, many "level one grassland" stages. Those probably make up like 20% percent of the stages, and we could go back and make some cooler, more unique stages that cover a wider breadth of themes and aesthetics than SSBU's. If it's an SSBU Deluxe, though, we're stuck with those stages, and can't do anything about them.

 

[SKX31]

I'd honestly prefer a smaller game with an emphasis on newcomers over an Ultimate Deluxe. If we keep porting Ultimate over and over again it'll just become stale. I want more new characters rather than a bunch of old ones with only a couple fresh faces here and there.

Also, if we go all-in on the newcomers we can just do a full roster reboot and finally put a stop to the mind-cripplingly boring cut discussions. That's one thing we never have to worry about again

... Until 20 years after the reboot when the roster gets so big that talks of cuts surface again, only to be rebooted.

Time is a flat circle.

TBF, a more advanced engine can allow for new stuff for older characters or other changes to them. Ultimate's engine is at least 10 years old (and if the assertions that it's based on Brawl's - I haven't seen definitive proof, but 4 and presumably Ultimate uses Havok, so I can't toss it out entirely - is correct we're talking 16+ years old). And even besides that, there are a few gameplay related quirks I'd like to see completely ironed out.

comes to mind, although he's had some weird design decisions for a while now. Thankfully he no longer has 4's cheesy gimp from the Cyclone, but his Ultimate counterpart has zero-to-death combos due to how the aerials (incl. Z-Air) work. Now it's more difficult to perform those than at launch - and those combos are far from his entire gameplan. He does have a solid foundation - and I agree with The_Bookworm at the Competitive character impression thread when he said that. But that's still something that deserves a second look. Especially since the Poltergust's become his grab.

But still, I'm kinda ambivalent between DX and just straight up rebooting with 6. On one hand, DX effectively extends Ultimate's lifecycle for a bit and gives additional time - but it kinda prolongs the cuts anyhow since you'll have to get a new engine sooner or later (both big MOBAs have already experienced this). OTOH, rebooting would give a clearer opportunity to work on the veterans and mechanics, but the devs will run into the difficult question of how many they should keep around.

A side game like the villains game ahemtoday mentioned is kinda intriguing, but my only question mark with that is how deep we'll have to dig to get a well-rounded roster from a gameplay standpoint and not majority "BIG bosses".

 

[PeridotGX]

Side game like the villains game ahemtoday mentioned is kinda intriguing, but my only question mark with that is how deep we'll have to dig to get a well-rounded roster from a gameplay standpoint and not majority "BIG bosses".

...that gives me an idea. Give me a moment...

 

[Louie G.]

I'd honestly prefer a smaller game with an emphasis on newcomers over an Ultimate Deluxe. If we keep porting Ultimate over and over again it'll just become stale. I want more new characters rather than a bunch of old ones with only a couple fresh faces here and there.

Also, if we go all-in on the newcomers we can just do a full roster reboot and finally put a stop to the mind-cripplingly boring cut discussions. That's one thing we never have to worry about again

I generally agree with you, but I think this puts us in a weird position. I think we could end up with some potentially odd roster decisions if we cut a slew of characters and end up replacing them with decidedly less popular or less significant ones.

Obviously this is a case by case scenario, and depends on how much we’d actually cut / how many newcomers we’d actually be adding, but say we fot to a point where we ended up cutting like... Meta Knight in favor of Bandana Dee or something, with the intent of prioritizing something fresh and new but kinda feeling forced as a result? Does that make sense? I just think it may be a difficult balance to strike. This is a pretty unique complication to handling a crossover in particular.

I suppose it lies on how important you feel “proper representation” is but I think so long as they want to keep certain series in the game there are characters who just need to be there before anyone else. Mario / Luigi / Peach / Bowser, Link / Zelda / Ganondorf, etc unless the game is a specialized spinoff like the aforementioned villain one.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

comes to mind, although he's had some weird design decisions for a while now. Thankfully he no longer has 4's cheesy gimp from the Cyclone, but his Ultimate counterpart has zero-to-death combos due to how the aerials (incl. Z-Air) work. Now it's more difficult to perform those than at launch - and those combos are far from his entire gameplan. He does have a solid foundation - and I agree with The_Bookworm at the Competitive character impression thread when he said that. But that's still something that deserves a second look. Especially since the Poltergust's become his grab.

Pultergust's inclusion has always made me feel that Luigi ought to be a zoner-grappler hybrid. If his fireballs were threatening, he'd have the perfect opportunity to grab based on people blocking it. At that point you'd just need to tone down his grab combos and I think his game design would actually be really good.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

A side game like the villains game @ahemtoday mentioned is kinda intriguing, but my only question mark with that is how deep we'll have to dig to get a well-rounded roster from a gameplay standpoint and not majority "BIG bosses".

Kirby has a bunch of smaller villains (not as bosses, but that's not really the form they'd take anyway), Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has Malos, who's a normal human, Pokémon has evil team leaders that have Pokémon of all kinds...I don't think that would be too big of an issue.

There definitely would be quite a few heavies on it though.

 

[SharkLord]

I generally agree with you, but I think this puts us in a weird position. I think we could end up with some potentially odd roster decisions if we cut a slew of characters and end up replacing them with decidedly less popular or less significant ones.

Obviously this is a case by case scenario, and depends on how much we’d actually cut / how many newcomers we’d actually be adding, but say we fot to a point where we ended up cutting like... Meta Knight in favor of Bandana Dee or something, with the intent of prioritizing something fresh and new but kinda feeling forced as a result? Does that make sense? I just think it may be a difficult balance to strike.

True, but that's pretty much just cuts in general. I'm looking at it more as a complete roster revamp that doesn't take veteran status into account. We'd get some big names like Mario back because they're just that big and would get chosen regardless, but it wouldn't be looking at cuts and veterans so much as just the characters on their own.

 

[3BitSaurus]

... Until 20 years after the reboot when the roster gets so big that talks of cuts surface again, only to be rebooted.

Time is a flat circle.

TBF, a more advanced engine can allow for new stuff for older characters or other changes to them. Ultimate's engine is at least 10 years old (and if the assertions that it's based on Brawl's - I haven't seen definitive proof, but 4 and presumably Ultimate uses Havok, so I can't toss it out entirely - is correct we're talking 16+ years old). And even besides that, there are a few gameplay related quirks I'd like to see completely ironed out.

comes to mind, although he's had some weird design decisions for a while now. Thankfully he no longer has 4's cheesy gimp from the Cyclone, but his Ultimate counterpart has zero-to-death combos due to how the aerials (incl. Z-Air) work. Now it's more difficult to perform those than at launch - and those combos are far from his entire gameplan. He does have a solid foundation - and I agree with The_Bookworm at the Competitive character impression thread when he said that. But that's still something that deserves a second look. Especially since the Poltergust's become his grab.

But still, I'm kinda ambivalent between DX and just straight up rebooting with 6. On one hand, DX effectively extends Ultimate's lifecycle for a bit and gives additional time - but it kinda prolongs the cuts anyhow since you'll have to get a new engine sooner or later (both big MOBAs have already experienced this). OTOH, rebooting would give a clearer opportunity to work on the veterans and mechanics, but the devs will run into the difficult question of how many they should keep around.

A side game like the villains game ahemtoday mentioned is kinda intriguing, but my only question mark with that is how deep we'll have to dig to get a well-rounded roster from a gameplay standpoint and not majority "BIG bosses".

I feel like current Luigi kinda feels like his kit lacks focus, at times. He's supposed to be a grappler if you look only at Poltergust, but then there's his Tornado, which sends people away from you, and Jump Punch, which most Luigis I've seen only use in air-to-ground combos as a finisher because it's easier to pull off. Then there's his Fireball and Green Missile, which... don't seem like they match the rest of his gameplan very well.

His normals are mostly fine, but I think his neutral, side and down specials in particular could use some retooling to better fit his gameplan. That's my opinion, at least.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

A side game like the villains game @ahemtoday mentioned is kinda intriguing, but my only question mark with that is how deep we'll have to dig to get a well-rounded roster from a gameplay standpoint and not majority "BIG bosses".

Psht, you are like a baby, check this out
Masked Lumen, naginata user with time manipulation powers so idk, Dandy Step and an install that speeds up frame data
Lord Frederick, big heavy with ice powers
Ghirahim, swordy that zones people out and can change into a hardened state to swap between mobility and survivability
Galacta Knight, glass cannon lance and shield user. Susie, Nintendo's Tron Bonne.
Tron Bonne as seen in MvC. Vile, gunner who can get his ride armour. Bass, zoner who's niche is being able to be ultra precise with his shots due to being able to aim, maybe even give him ricochet shots to help mix up what angles you fire from.
Black Knight. DBZ Broly but instead of outzoning the dedicated zoner he gets disjoints and a teleport.
Rhundas. More icey ****.
Dracula, have him do his typical stuff like Hellfire, Megido, Soul Steal, etc, maybe give Alucard none of that to help differentiate the two or give Drac significantly more options than Alucard for those moves.
Eggman. Another mech suit. Infinite, trapper character, ****ing excelling in stage control, maybe even give him Pokken Darkrai's mechanic where his moves are better when opponents suffer from illusions.
Krauser. He brings Dies Irae. Geese, Beeg Yeet.

 

[Louie G.]

True, but that's pretty much just cuts in general. I'm looking at it more as a complete roster revamp that doesn't take veteran status into account. We'd get some big names like Mario back because they're just that big and would get chosen regardless, but it wouldn't be looking at cuts and veterans so much as just the characters on their own.

That makes sense, and I think it's fun to think about. Although there are only a few scenarios where I could see the community taking kindly to an approach like that - the first being if they decide to go all-in on making Smash a big third party crossover, cutting off supporting characters from first parties and just prioritizing the big ones while striving to represent more from their partner companies. Here's where all your Capcom, Sega, Namco characters can join in as Smash kind of begins to embrace its noticeable change in direction to a pretty exaggerated degree. It's not exactly my preferred outcome but it would at least be an understandable reason to truly "reboot" and would be a good incentive to introduce a brand new cast without feeling weird.

Then there's stuff like Smash villains or Super Bash Sisters type spinoffs that opt to focus on a particular character type and build a gimmick roster around that. It doesn't have the same lasting power as the main series or the previous idea, but it would be a fun novelty / offshoot. I imagine a game like this would be notably smaller than an "actual" Smash Bros game and treated more as a little pit stop of sorts.

The one I think about the most is a more traditional fighter approach to a Nintendo crossover, revamping the roster and gameplay entirely in a more MVC-styled crossover fighter. I don't think this one has lasting power either and would also be treated as more of a spinoff, since Smash's gameplay has pretty much built an entirely new competitive community in itself, but this is one I'd love to see happen one day and would assure that we get to see all these characters in a brand new light. Which would be super exciting for me, everyone would feel brand new.

 

[BlondeLombax]

This may be an unpopular opinion but I’m more than okay with Ultimate Deluxe/Encore. You’d have most of your work cut out for you, just make tweaks to the existing characters as necessary, maybe tweak some side single player content as well. I feel there’s a LOT of the single player side that could use heavy modifications

heck, more single player content aside from what we got would be amazing and add to more replay value

Here, here! I can’t imagine anybody getting cut after so many popular entrants into this installment like Sephiroth, Steve, B&K, heck, even Pichu! Plus it give the team more time to focus on so much more new cool stuff like new Stadium modes and even the return of Smash Run (or, dare I say it, a battle royale gamemode).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I generally agree with you, but I think this puts us in a weird position. I think we could end up with some potentially odd roster decisions if we cut a slew of characters and end up replacing them with decidedly less popular or less significant ones.

Obviously this is a case by case scenario, and depends on how much we’d actually cut / how many newcomers we’d actually be adding, but say we fot to a point where we ended up cutting like... Meta Knight in favor of Bandana Dee or something, with the intent of prioritizing something fresh and new but kinda feeling forced as a result? Does that make sense? I just think it may be a difficult balance to strike.

And with each game, that's going to become more of a necessity.

Fire Emblem is already going to have to deal with a strange revolving door of characters moving forward since Marth is the series mascot, Lucina is based off of him, and is quite popular, Roy is incredibly popular as a Super Smash Bros. character (but not as a Fire Emblem one, making him the easiest cut, though still one that would be missed), Chrom is popular in his own right, and is based off of Roy, Ike is one of the most popular Fire Emblem characters, Robin is an important representative of one of the series's most important games (I don't think Lucina by herself would be adequate), Corrin is really the only "bad" choice in the grand scheme of things, and Byleth does seem to represent a positive turning point for the series.

We can cut down Fire Emblem's cast for now, but in a game or two it's gonna have too many highly important characters later to include them all. Pokémon would likely have the same problem if they actually added it's major characters (and even then it has a some characters that are mostly important to Super Smash Bros., and the Pokémon Trainer themself bumps up the important roster by three).

True, but that's pretty much just cuts in general. I'm looking at it more as a complete roster revamp that doesn't take veteran status into account. We'd get some big names like Mario back because they're just that big and would get chosen regardless, but it wouldn't be looking at cuts and veterans so much as just the characters on their own.

I personally don't think you could do that in good faith, but even disregarding that, the fans of the series are going to see that half the characters (give or take about 15) just left. It's something that everyone is going to feel, especially if it means that any character that could be considered a deep pick is expunged from the roster (and by that I mean most side characters and smaller series).

I honestly think the only direction you could go with something like this would be to completely drop the Nintendo focus and have the roster consist mostly of 3rd party characters. I feel like that's really the only way to replace what was lost, and while not everyone would be on board with the new direction, there would at least be one that isn't "Smash Bros., but R.I.P. everyone".

 

[chocolatejr9]

...that gives me an idea. Give me a moment...

How long of a moment?

 

[cashregister9]

A side game like the villains game @ahemtoday mentioned is kinda intriguing, but my only question mark with that is how deep we'll have to dig to get a well-rounded roster from a gameplay standpoint and not majority "BIG bosses".

I'd say you can add at least 1 villain for most of the playable characters not including ones already in the game even
- Waluigi if he counts if not then anyone from the RPGs
- Fredrick
- The Mage Sisters or Dark Matter
- General Scales
- I guess Giovanni or Team Rocket?
- Black Shadow
- Porky
- Kamek
- Rundas
- Ghirahim
- Gharnef
- Revolver Ocelot
- Eggman
- Plasm Wraith
- Hades
-Baldur or if you don't count him, Masked Lumen
- Gilgamesh
- Wily
- Malos
-King Hippo
- M. Bison
- Gruntilda
- Dr. Coyle
-PERSONA 5 BASE GAME AND ROYAL SPOILERS! Akechi
- Dracula
- Geese but Rugal would work too
- Illager
- Octavio but that might be too big if so, Just add corrupted octolings

Even some franchises that I think could bring a villain as their first playable character
Arthas - Warcraft
Nightmare - Soul Calibur

 

[PeridotGX]

A side game like the villains game ahemtoday mentioned is kinda intriguing, but my only question mark with that is how deep we'll have to dig to get a well-rounded roster from a gameplay standpoint and not majority "BIG bosses".

ahemtoday
I whipped this up real quick. Just about 50 villains.

Yellow characters are those who were added to inherit the moveset of a cut protagonist (Dark Samus and Dark Pit also do this). I thought this up in about 30 minutes, so it's not very good, but I feel like there's enough characters who aren't super heavies (though there's a good amount more than usual) to give this roster some variety .

 

[SKX31]

ahemtoday
I whipped this up real quick. Just about 50 villains.
View attachment 309700
Yellow characters are those who were added to inherit the moveset of a cut protagonist (Dark Samus and Dark Pit also do this). I thought this up in about 30 minutes, so it's not very good, but I feel like there's enough characters who aren't super heavies (though there's a good amount more than usual) to give this roster some variety .

[Proto Man.]

S-tier roster right off the bat.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

ahemtoday
I whipped this up real quick. Just about 50 villains.
View attachment 309700
Yellow characters are those who were added to inherit the moveset of a cut protagonist (Dark Samus and Dark Pit also do this). I thought this up in about 30 minutes, so it's not very good, but I feel like there's enough characters who aren't super heavies (though there's a good amount more than usual) to give this roster some variety .

Dr. Coyle, nice

If you wanna add more female villains id suggest T-elos and Junko Enoshima

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

My favorite Fire Emblem villain may always be Berkut. I've always imagined him as a puppet fighter in any fighting game context. It's a concept that's a little spoilery but it would be so perfect.

 

[PeridotGX]

My favorite Fire Emblem villain may always be Berkut. I've always imagined him as a puppet fighter in any fighting game context. It's a concept that's a little spoilery but it would be so perfect.

I can't see Berkut working in Smash, because he's a Paladin and that would be really jacquard in Smash. The idea is cool, though.

 

[Knight Dude]

Villain fighting game roster?

Bowser, Ganon, Ridley, Dark Samus, Wolf, K. Rool, Medusa, Black Knight, Bowser Jr., Wario if he counts, DDD if he still counts, Marx, Vaati, Captain Syrup for someone obscure. Dj Octavio, Dr.Coyle

M.Bison, Akuma, Geese, Rugal "GENOCIDE CUTTAH" Bernstein, Dr.Eggman, Metal Sonic, Bass, Tron Bonne, Sigma, Vergil, Sephiroth, Nightmare, Grunty, Fulgore, Heihachi, Noob Saibot.

Though to be honest, you could probably have even more FF villains too.

 

[PeridotGX]

Dr. Coyle, nice

If you wanna add more female villains id suggest T-elos and Junko Enoshima

I really wasn't paying attention to that when making the roster, having only two female characters really isn't good. I considered Captain Syrup, Edelgard, and Undyne, and Junko's a really good choice I didn't think of.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

How long of a moment?

Never now that you asked you fool. You absolute buffoon.

ahemtoday
I whipped this up real quick. Just about 50 villains.
View attachment 309700
Yellow characters are those who were added to inherit the moveset of a cut protagonist (Dark Samus and Dark Pit also do this). I thought this up in about 30 minutes, so it's not very good, but I feel like there's enough characters who aren't super heavies (though there's a good amount more than usual) to give this roster some variety .

I keep forgetting Dark Matter Swordsman is a surprisingly popular Kirby suggestion, probably because Kirby's cast kept growing for quite a while but it's so weird, are there even any good moveset suggestions for them? They only have 2 fights so there's not much to pull from, one of them being pretty recent so nobody'd really use it as a reference

 

[7NATOR]

So I wanted to share a speculation about the Next Fighter

You know how Smash has added Fighters that have deviated from the Universal Moveset and Mechanics of a Regular Smash moveset?

Examples include Mega Man (who's Jab, Side Tilt, and Neutral Air are the Same attack), Inkling and Steve (who have Shield Specials), Ryu and Ken (Who have both inputs and More tilts than usual based off the button press), and Min Min (who has no Special or Side special due to her other Arm)

I think Potentially the next character might be in this camp as well

UPDATE
this happens with EVERY hurtbox type, not just head hurtboxes
i tested this by changing lucas's head hurtbox type to each different type of hurtbox and this happened every single time
the only requirements for this to happen seems to ONLY be forward momentum of any kind https://t.co/XGZbwoEQd1

— angie🌙 (@firubiii) March 10, 2021

So I was thinking about this glitch again, I do know that people might think it could be a passive to perhaps the Dash of the next character

However I Propose this might have to do with a characters Dodges, where instead of Dodging regular, they have a more Special Dash that allows them to only pass through projectiles, but doesn't have the Endlag attached that Regular dodges have. this would allow this Dash to be better used for aggressive options, recovery, and perhaps better counterattacking, in exchange for worse (or harder to use) General evasion. They would also pretty much have an Air Dash

I Propose that perhaps the next character might have more terrible than average defensive options, to balance them out

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I whipped this up real quick. Just about 50 villains.

Small nitpick: Blue and Rayquaza were never villains (unless Rayquasa's a villain in one of the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon games or something) and Proto Man & King Dedede are no longer villains.

EDIT: Though King Dedede does kind of work since he was a villain for a bit and gets mind controlled every Tuesday, but Proto Man doesn't at since he only fought against you in one game and then helped you in every subsequent appearance.

 

[PeridotGX]

Never now that you asked you fool. You absolute buffoon.

I keep forgetting Dark Matter Swordsman is a surprisingly popular Kirby suggestion, probably because Kirby's cast kept growing for quite a while but it's so weird, are there even any good moveset suggestions for them? They only have 2 fights so there's not much to pull from, one of them being pretty recent so nobody'd really use it as a reference

I'll be honest, I just wanted to make sure we didn't have too few swordsmen, and I tacked him on without much of a second thought.

If I had to come up with a moveset for him, he'd be an amorphous blob without a very consistent shape. Most of his normals might use the sword, but I'd take from all the dark matter forms. He'd also be really light, even moreso in this very heavy-focused game.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Just did the MH Spirit battles. Honestly, I don't consider myself a fan, because my first experience with the series was Rise, but it's nice to see MH at least got some decent representation, if not a playable character.

Speaking of... I talked about this before, but we always seem to get 2 or 3 events with new Spirits between characters. It's the case for most characters since Joker, anyway.

However, since The P5S and GnGR events are game-tied, I think we might see at least one more Spirit execution before the next character.

What are everyone's bets?

 

[PeridotGX]

Small nitpick: Blue and Rayquaza were never villains (unless Rayquasa's a villain in one of the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon games or something) and Proto Man & King Dedede are no longer villains.

EDIT: Though King Dedede does kind of work since he was a villain for a bit and gets mind controlled every Tuesday, but Proto Man doesn't at since he only fought against you in one game and then helped you in every subsequent appearance.

I added Blue because he's an antagonistic force, despite not being evil, and Rayquaza is there because he was in Subspace (Pokemon was surprisingly tricky, few true villains). Dusknoir is for PMD, and Necrozma is quite possibly the only Actually Evil Pokemon.

Dedede was added for his former villainhood and frequent possession (and Meta Knight was removed because he's very rarely a villain). I don't know much about Mega Man, so we can cut Proto and replace him with Bass(?).

 

[Louie G.]

A side game like the villains game ahemtoday mentioned is kinda intriguing, but my only question mark with that is how deep we'll have to dig to get a well-rounded roster from a gameplay standpoint and not majority "BIG bosses".

Yeah true, a lot of the more iconic bosses end up falling into a similar category of "goofy superheavy" so let's try and break it down a bit. Just doing it for kicks.

I figure we could probably keep mostly everyone who's already in, I think Smash does a nice job distinguishing these guys and making them feel unique from one another. I think all these characters fit the bill nicely already. I chopped Piranha Plant off for now but we can definitely factor them in later if we wanted.
(?)

Yes, of course Donkey Kong counts. He's like, Mario's original rival obvoiusly! I'd argue he's even more famous for being an antagonist. Maybe his moveset can be reworked a bit to better represent his arcade origins.

About half of these guys are superheavies, and then Wario and Ridley still being heavies but more moderately so. Dark Samus is technically there as well (although IMO she should probably be lighter, in this game). Meta Knight, Mewtwo and Sephiroth are all quite light, and then Wolf clocks in at about midweight. Pretty good balance here of up close and personal and capable ranged fighters / zoners too, characters both slow and fast and in between, heavy combo capabilities for some and sheer unadulterated power for others. Overall I'm really happy with the variety in Ultimate's villain lineup, which at face value I suspected would be more skewed toward "big guys".

After that I think we probably focus on pulling from existing series that don't have a proper villain yet / characters who are missing an obvious rival, and seeing how these characters could stand out. So I'll suggest some that I think would fit in perfectly.

Spoiler: Other Characters

- Eggman falls immediately into the superheavy category, but I think his Egg Walker mech would distinguish himself nicely and as Gwen addressed before provide a dominating trap-centric style of gameplay that is more or less untapped. Metal Sonic may be worth thinking about too, or Shadow if we're being a bit loose with the boss label and dipping more into general rival territory (after all I kept Meta Knight around).

- Porky obviously, although I'd be a little concerned about how his mech-based moveset could overlap with the aforementioned Eggman and Bowser Jr who is already in. Probably best not to focus on one archetype too heavily, but I think his more beastly spider mech design would make him stand out for sure. Probably best to think of it less like a mech and more like a giant robotic bug.

- Porky is Lucas' big bad too, but Masked Man would be neat and offer some more weight-class variety. Probably a bit comparable to Meta Knight as a lighter swordfighter who's quick in the air, plus being a dedicated gunner type with some lightning magic... I think he'd be great.

- Captain Syrup! Not only does she have obvious and refreshing moveset potential through her role as a pirate and provides us with another midweight, but she also gives us some well needed female villain representation. Cannons, sabers, treasure chests, a genie lamp... You could do a lot here.

- Dr. Coyle too - long-ranged fighter who can float around but is probably among the lightest characters in the game to compensate. Come to think of it with the prevalence of big slow powerhouse characters she would probably dominate LOL.

- Medusa? Viridi sorta? Of course you could go with Hades also, but I'd opt for a more staff based / magic based female antagonist for variety sake. Medusa would probably play as a sort of mirror to Palutena in some ways while Viridi would be more of a summoner character directing the Forces of Nature and sprouting plants and vines and ****. I'd opt for Viridi myself but this is another case where you could debate whether or not she's technically a villain.

- One of the weirdest character choices that I actually want to see in Smash is a Bulborb. They're just so funny. Poke opponents with your eyeballs, lick them or gulp them up, lay eggs and create little baby Bulborbs to assist you... a more out there pick but definitely something new.

- I think M. Bison is a bit too iconic to ignore. I feel like if Ganon got redone he may share some properties with Bison, but there's still more than enough here to make him stand out and I mean... he's M. Bison. Gil would also be pretty badass.

- Lots of options. King Hippo would be my default pick but maybe for variety sake we could go with Mr. Sandman and then Glass Joe as a joke character. Any of these choices would be great and could focus on a more dedicated, traditional boxing style in contrast with the weird magic and unconventional antics provided by the others.

Shoutouts to Samurai Goroh I think he would be a lot of fun. Black Knight should probably be here too. Just burnt myself out for now.

I could go on, I haven't gotten into a lot of series yet and that doesn't even cover series that could get additional villains to their name - Fawful, Skull Kid, Marx (please), Magolor, ... I dunno, an "evil" dark type Pokemon like Gengar? Or maybe Meowth? Kefka and Andross somehow? Really limitless potential here and it's been really fun to think about so far. Might put together a formal roster sometime.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I keep forgetting Dark Matter Swordsman is a surprisingly popular Kirby suggestion, probably because Kirby's cast kept growing for quite a while but it's so weird, are there even any good moveset suggestions for them? They only have 2 fights so there's not much to pull from, one of them being pretty recent so nobody'd really use it as a reference

I think an official moveset is likely to use Dark Matter in its entirety, which is a lot, especially considering all of the forms it takes.

So I was thinking about this glitch again, I do know that people might think it could be a passive to perhaps the Dash of the next character

However I Propose this might have to do with a characters Dodges, where instead of Dodging regular, they have a more Special Dash that allows them to only pass through projectiles, but doesn't have the Endlag attached that Regular dodges have. this would allow this Dash to be better used for aggressive options, recovery, and perhaps better counterattacking, in exchange for worse (or harder to use) General evasion. They would also pretty much have an Air Dash

I Propose that perhaps the next character might have more terrible than average defensive options, to balance them out

This is so highly specific that I can't think of a single character that would have this trait. If it only works on the head then maybe Mimikyu, but it's stated that this is not the case so...

(Pokemon was surprisingly tricky, few true villains)

Well...Actually there's been at least one new one in each generation since Pokémon Ruby & Pokémon Sapphire.

 

[PeridotGX]

Well...Actually there's been at least one new one in each generation since Pokémon Ruby & Pokémon Sapphire.

I was going with what Canon Smash does, so I only added the one human.

 

[7NATOR]

Just did the MH Spirit battles. Honestly, I don't consider myself a fan, because my first experience with the series was Rise, but it's nice to see MH at least got some decent representation, if not a playable character.

Speaking of... I talked about this before, but we always seem to get 2 or 3 events with new Spirits between characters. It's the case for most characters since Joker, anyway.

However, since The P5S and GnGR events are game-tied, I think we might see at least one more Spirit execution before the next character.

What are everyone's bets?

Can't think of none unfortunately. Honestly I think we might be done with Special Spirit events since I can't think of a game that would be coming out in April or Earlier May

We might get Shin Megami Tensi if they don't get playable, but that might also come either along or after next character revealed

This is so highly specific that I can't think of a single character that would have this trait. If it only works on the head then maybe Mimikyu, but it's stated that this is not the case so...

I can think of 3 (maybe 4) characters that would have this trait though. Especially since this isn't Head hitbox specfic, but any hitbox is affected as shown in the tweet

People know who these 3 (maybe 4) are though.

 

[Pillow]

Your 3 GT reps are a Goku, a Vegeta, and a goddamn Goku/Vegeta!

We also got Kid Goku you know.

 

[Knight Dude]

There's a lot of indie Smash projects, what would your ideal roster for one be?

So I wanted to share a speculation about the Next Fighter

You know how Smash has added Fighters that have deviated from the Universal Moveset and Mechanics of a Regular Smash moveset?

Examples include Mega Man (who's Jab, Side Tilt, and Neutral Air are the Same attack), Inkling and Steve (who have Shield Specials), Ryu and Ken (Who have both inputs and More tilts than usual based off the button press), and Min Min (who has no Special or Side special due to her other Arm)

I think Potentially the next character might be in this camp as well

UPDATE
this happens with EVERY hurtbox type, not just head hurtboxes
i tested this by changing lucas's head hurtbox type to each different type of hurtbox and this happened every single time
the only requirements for this to happen seems to ONLY be forward momentum of any kind https://t.co/XGZbwoEQd1

— angie🌙 (@firubiii) March 10, 2021

So I was thinking about this glitch again, I do know that people might think it could be a passive to perhaps the Dash of the next character

However I Propose this might have to do with a characters Dodges, where instead of Dodging regular, they have a more Special Dash that allows them to only pass through projectiles, but doesn't have the Endlag attached that Regular dodges have. this would allow this Dash to be better used for aggressive options, recovery, and perhaps better counterattacking, in exchange for worse (or harder to use) General evasion. They would also pretty much have an Air Dash

I Propose that perhaps the next character might have more terrible than average defensive options, to balance them out

I don't really like Glitch theory stuff, since it doesn't really lead into anything that doesn't sound like a huge stretch. I can't think of too many situations where a character's mechanics slipped in a little only to be re-adjusted for the new addition some odd months later.

But this could lead to Mega Man X or Sol Badguy, so it HAS to be real. /s

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

If Sakurai has/will want to work on other projects, a DX version of Ultimate may be Nintendo's practical solution to keeping the Smash gravy train going without the risk of a major new sequel without its creator. Him doing occasional supervision of Ultimate Deluxe would also still potentially allow a focus on any separate game development he's interested in at the same time.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

(?)

From what I remember, Dark Pit has his own agenda, and clashes with Pit, but he's not really working against him for the most part.

Yes, of course Donkey Kong counts. He's like, Mario's original rival obvoiusly! I'd argue he's even more famous for being an antagonist. Maybe his moveset can be reworked a bit to better represent his arcade origins.

You would have to expunge Donkey Kong Country from the character in order for this to work. Donkey Kong Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Country Donkey Kong are two different characters with opposite roles.

We also got Kid Goku you know.

I believe he was referring to GT Goku (which is Kid Goku), Super Baby 2 (which is so different that I didn't even know that it was a possessed Vegita), and Gogeta (Super Sayian 4).

I was going with what Canon Smash does, so I only added the one human.

Ah. I personally wouldn't do that. It's pretty dumb that Super Smash Bros. doesn't use the human cast of Pokémon, and they could be implemented even without the switch mechanic should the opportunity present itself.

I can think of 3 (maybe 4) characters that would have this trait though. Especially since this isn't Head hitbox specfic, but any hitbox is affected as shown in the tweet

People know who these 3 (maybe 4) are though.

Erm...Hyper Light Drifter? Yeah I really don't know.

But this could lead to Mega Man X or Sol Badguy, so it HAS to be real.

X's dash is not projectile invincible, and I don't think Sol's is either, but that one I could be wrong on.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

So I wanted to share a speculation about the Next Fighter

You know how Smash has added Fighters that have deviated from the Universal Moveset and Mechanics of a Regular Smash moveset?

Examples include Mega Man (who's Jab, Side Tilt, and Neutral Air are the Same attack), Inkling and Steve (who have Shield Specials), Ryu and Ken (Who have both inputs and More tilts than usual based off the button press), and Min Min (who has no Special or Side special due to her other Arm)

I think Potentially the next character might be in this camp as well


So I was thinking about this glitch again, I do know that people might think it could be a passive to perhaps the Dash of the next character

However I Propose this might have to do with a characters Dodges, where instead of Dodging regular, they have a more Special Dash that allows them to only pass through projectiles, but doesn't have the Endlag attached that Regular dodges have. this would allow this Dash to be better used for aggressive options, recovery, and perhaps better counterattacking, in exchange for worse (or harder to use) General evasion. They would also pretty much have an Air Dash

I Propose that perhaps the next character might have more terrible than average defensive options, to balance them out

I think it's telling that it seems to be a change to how projectiles work against every character. I'm not a programmer, but I would think you would want to create a new status that causes projectiles to act differently when turned on. The status in theory wouldn't be applied to any other characters (it would have to be added), so it shouldn't trigger right now. It's possible the bug is related to the next character if it's a change to projectile properties, but I don't think we're seeing anything close to the intended functionality of whatever change would be implemented.