Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[TheLamerGamer]

A smash villains game would be good beyond just the characters. There wouldn't be as many generic beginning stages, and we'd have more boss arenas and stuff instead. The music would probably have a bigger focus on battle and boss themes, and would probably be in different styles to what we're used to.

(I also want to see how the story mode would work, because that could be very interesting).

 

[Ivander]

Roy is incredibly popular as a Super Smash Bros. character (but not as a Fire Emblem one, making him the easiest cut, though still one that would be missed)

looks at the first Choose your Legends where Roy was 2nd place and was one of the first four to get a Brave Alt
Regardless of how some people look at him, I'm pretty sure "Roy is not a popular Fire Emblem character" is a myth when he was 2nd next to Ike, beating out Hector, Marth and Chrom, all who are very popular with Fire Emblem fans.

And Corrin has her fans too in regards to Fire Emblem. She's been fifth twice, 6th once, 9th once and the only time she wasn't in Top 10 was CYL 4 when Three Houses had come out. And sure, she hasn't won any of them, but neither has Chrom and people are quick to agree he is popular with both Fire Emblem and Smash Bros. fans. Not to mention Corrin gets attention for being the first Manakete Fire Emblem character in Smash.

I just feel people are very quick to say that Fire Emblem has easy cuts when all of them have a notable fanbase. It's easy to say, "This character is disliked by people, so they're an easy cut" when for one, it's more than likely not the majority people see doing the disliking and two, Nintendo is the one who makes the calls and for all we know, there are other characters they are more willing to cut than others. And we know Nintendo tends to look at things differently from the fanbase.

 

[PeridotGX]

I'm dissapointed nobody said "Peridot, how are you supposed to get Metal Face playable?", because I actually do have a video of a playable Metal Face.

 

[Knight Dude]

X's dash is not projectile invincible, and I don't think Sol's is either, but that one I could be wrong on.

There's a couple of instances where it is actually. Mega Man Xtreme 2, you can get an upgrade that makes your dashes invincible, basically turning it into an extended dodge.

EDIT: In Xtreme 2, I'm pretty sure it's also available to Zero, as it's not one of the character exclusive upgrades. I THINK it also makes Mega Man X's Double Jump/Upwards Air-Dash invincible as well, but I'm unsure, it's been a while since I played Xtreme 2 specifically.

There's also armor parts in Mega Man X8 that turns your dash into a teleport type of thing. In that game it's exclusive to Mega Man X. But Axl can do a dodge roll, it's just not quite a proper dash.

You just gotta BIG BRAIN on this.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Yeah, the Roy is not popular argument is exclusively tied to his game where at certain points in the game he’s completely useless as a unit and then at other parts he’s crazy over powered. There’s no middle ground. He’s not unpopular as a character though. Far from it.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

A smash villains game would be good beyond just the characters. There wouldn't be as many generic beginning stages, and we'd have more boss arenas and stuff instead. The music would probably have a bigger focus on battle and boss themes, and would probably be in different styles to what we're used to.

(I also want to see how the story mode would work, because that could be very interesting).

I too am ready for the backstabbening.

I just feel people are very quick to say that Fire Emblem has easy cuts when all of them have a notable fanbase. It's easy to say, "This character is disliked by people, so they're an easy cut" when for one, it's more than likely not the majority people see doing the disliking and two, Nintendo is the one who makes the calls and for all we know, there are other characters they are more willing to cut than others. And we know Nintendo tends to look at things differently from the fanbase.

For some people, sure, but I think there's also the fact that it's easier to cut down a series' representation when there are eight characters than when there are two. I think Mario and Pokemon would also face cuts if cuts were necessary. I do agree it's not going to be determined by like/dislike ratios, but it's hard to look at a group of eight characters from one series and say it's going to stay intact in a situation where only, say, 50 characters return.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm dissapointed nobody said "Peridot, how are you supposed to get Metal Face playable?", because I actually do have a video of a playable Metal Face.

Title: One Who Gets in our Way
Song: You will Know our Names

I dunno. This looks pretty off to me. Might could make it work, but I'm not sold on this.

 

[Knight Dude]

A smash villains game would be good beyond just the characters. There wouldn't be as many generic beginning stages, and we'd have more boss arenas and stuff instead. The music would probably have a bigger focus on battle and boss themes, and would probably be in different styles to what we're used to.

(I also want to see how the story mode would work, because that could be very interesting).

If the Temen-Ni-Gru isn't Tourney legal, throw the whole game away.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I'm dissapointed nobody said "Peridot, how are you supposed to get Metal Face playable?", because I actually do have a video of a playable Metal Face.

I find the idea of a Metal Face of that size incredibly funny because of the implications regarding what a size reduction would mean for him.

About the whole projectile glitch thing: regardless of my thoughts on Glitch Theory, I have to admit that it's interesting, because unlike the others we've seen so far, this one is a global change rather than a character-specific visual glitch.

At the end of the day, it's more likely just some leftovers from refactoring something, but it's still interesting to know.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Oh my Duma, Berkut could have such a beautiful moveset.

Spoiler: Shadows of Valentia spoilers

I don’t know how representative the Dancer alt he gets in Fire Emblem Heroes is, but if we can take that creative liberty, he could form a moveset where each move is a synchronized dancing step with the flaming (hitbox-bearing) soul of his sacrificed lover, dancing over the battlefield in real time, but always apart.

 

[7NATOR]

Erm...Hyper Light Drifter? Yeah I really don't know.


X's dash is not projectile invincible, and I don't think Sol's is either, but that one I could be wrong on.

Well regarding Mega Man X, I guess according to Knight dude, it has been projectile Invincible in the past

Actually though, Mega Man X wasn't one of the characters I was thinking of, but I could add him to the list

Sol's Air Dash I don't think has ever been Invulnerable to Projectiles, however if they want to take liberties, they could make immune to Projectiles in Smash specfically, especially if they want to give his rushdown playstyle an easier time to manage

He also hasn't been able to Air Dash on the Ground, but there could be liberties taken. In any case Here were the characters I was thinking of, or just now thought of

-Reimu
-Sol Badguy
-Undertale character
-Lloyd (BIG IF, I imagine this would only be done to make his Combo heavy aggressive Playstyle more centric, and also balanced, but I don't believe he has specfic Dodging abilities in his games
-Mega Man X
-Shadow the Hedgehog

I think it's telling that it seems to be a change to how projectiles work against every character. I'm not a programmer, but I would think you would want to create a new status that causes projectiles to act differently when turned on. The status in theory wouldn't be applied to any other characters (it would have to be added), so it shouldn't trigger right now. It's possible the bug is related to the next character if it's a change to projectile properties, but I don't think we're seeing anything close to the intended functionality of whatever change would be implemented.

Possibly. It also could be an unintended side effect that has to deal with Mythra, since It's possible they may have had to change general projectile properties to make Ray of Punishment and Chroma Dust reflectable in the correct direction.

In any case though, fun to speculate about

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Well regarding Mega Man X, I guess according to Knight dude, it has been projectile Invincible in the past

Actually though, Mega Man X wasn't one of the characters I was thinking of, but I could add him to the list

Sol's Air Dash I don't think has ever been Invulnerable to Projectiles, however if they want to take liberties, they could make immune to Projectiles in Smash specfically, especially if they want to give his rushdown playstyle an easier time to manage

He also hasn't been able to Air Dash on the Ground, but there could be liberties taken. In any case Here were the characters I was thinking of, or just now thought of

-Reimu
-Sol Badguy
-Undertale character
-Lloyd (BIG IF, I imagine this would only be done to make his Combo heavy aggressive Playstyle more centric, and also balanced, but I don't believe he has specfic Dodging abilities in his games
-Mega Man X
-Shadow the Hedgehog



Possibly. It also could be an unintended side effect that has to deal with Mythra, since It's possible they may have had to change general projectile properties to make Ray of Punishment and Chroma Dust reflectable in the correct direction.

In any case though, fun to speculate about

Neku can kinda sorta air dash on the ground if you drag him along (handheld mode in Final Remix and original DS version) he takes damage from projectiles but won’t stop moving iirc

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

初報からお時間頂きましたが来週 #すばせかアニメ 第１話放送の数時間前９日１５時（日本時間）に #新すばせか の新情報をこちらで公開させて頂きます。また今後ゲームに関するツイートもこちらのアカウントで総合的に扱う事になりました。それでは今晩の直前特番もお楽しみ下さい。＠野村 pic.twitter.com/jSPcnNyVCI

— すばらしきこのせかい 公式アカウント (@TWEWY_PR) April 2, 2021

TWEWY NEO news next week alongside the first episode of the anime. I wonder if we'll get Rindo with a Neku alt, Sakurai would probably make another social distance joke if that happened

Hmmm... not liking the look of this Rindo kid personally. Neku has a standout design.

Rindo there just kinda looks to me like Streetwise Shulk. Like if Shulk just sorta burst outta the streets "Yo yo yo, I got my Monado and I'm gonna avenge my babe Fiora boiiiiiiiiiiiii!"

And he's just aggressive looking enough to do that small town Minnesota thing where he leaves through the door but then he comes back and sticks his head through the door and "And if I hear any of you fighting, if I hear you guys doing anything behind my back.... YOU'D BETTER NOT DO ANYTHING BEHIND MY BACK! YOU HEAR? GAWWWWWWWWWW. DON'T MAKE ME COME BACK IN HERE!"

Then it's just Shulk walking the streets to this hip hop version of Beyond the Sky and he meets some other alleyway gang kid "Yo yo yo I saw dis Vision man. Big robot dude with a Cockney accent. Stabbed my girl and now he's gonna stab you if you don't get out da wayyyyyyyyyyyyy"

Maybe the story will surprise me, but right now... I'm not all about Rindo in the same way that Neku IMMEDIATELY makes me go "I wanna know this kid's deal"

 

[Knight Dude]

That said, if I'm being more serious, I still have my doubt that this glitch will lead to any significant hints towards a new character.

Though in general, it would be nice to have a character who can do a normal air-dash. I think the closest we have is doing a mid-air FADC with Ryu and Ken, but that doesn't travel terribly far and plays 2nd fiddle to it's more traditional Focus Attack options on the ground.

 

[SneakyLink]

Oh are we discussing projectile glitch again? There’s only two things about it that intrigue me:
1. It apparently doesn’t need to be activated by dashing. Any sort of forward momentum will do (the only rule for this bug appears to be that the projectile hitbox hits exactly one opponent hurtbox). This also means it is not character specific.
2. All projectiles are affected. Arrows are the easiest to use but apparently someone got it to work with Snake’s Nikita, Falco’s reflector, and Min-Min’s Ramram. The last I didn’t know counted as a projectile until now.

 

[Knight Dude]

Oh are we discussing projectile glitch again? There’s only two things about it that intrigue me:
1. It apparently doesn’t need to be activated by dashing. Any sort of forward momentum will do (the only rule for this bug appears to be that the projectile hitbox hits exactly one opponent hurtbox). This also means it is not character specific.
2. All projectiles are affected. Arrows are the easiest to use but apparently someone got it to work with Snake’s Nikita, Falco’s reflector, and Min-Min’s Ramram. The last I didn’t know counted as a projectile until now.

That last part makes sense, it does leave her body, even if only for a brief period of time.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

So I wanted to share a speculation about the Next Fighter

You know how Smash has added Fighters that have deviated from the Universal Moveset and Mechanics of a Regular Smash moveset?

Examples include Mega Man (who's Jab, Side Tilt, and Neutral Air are the Same attack), Inkling and Steve (who have Shield Specials), Ryu and Ken (Who have both inputs and More tilts than usual based off the button press), and Min Min (who has no Special or Side special due to her other Arm)

I think Potentially the next character might be in this camp as well

UPDATE
this happens with EVERY hurtbox type, not just head hurtboxes
i tested this by changing lucas's head hurtbox type to each different type of hurtbox and this happened every single time
the only requirements for this to happen seems to ONLY be forward momentum of any kind https://t.co/XGZbwoEQd1

— angie🌙 (@firubiii) March 10, 2021

So I was thinking about this glitch again, I do know that people might think it could be a passive to perhaps the Dash of the next character

However I Propose this might have to do with a characters Dodges, where instead of Dodging regular, they have a more Special Dash that allows them to only pass through projectiles, but doesn't have the Endlag attached that Regular dodges have. this would allow this Dash to be better used for aggressive options, recovery, and perhaps better counterattacking, in exchange for worse (or harder to use) General evasion. They would also pretty much have an Air Dash

I Propose that perhaps the next character might have more terrible than average defensive options, to balance them out

A dash that can move through projectiles and be operated in the air? Hmm...

Sounds a lot like the Shade Cloak from a certain well renowned indie Metroidvania title...

The Knight from Hollow Knight confirmed!

Spoiler

Well not really, but it would be cool though.

 

[Idon]

looks at the first Choose your Legends where Roy was 2nd place and was the one of the first four to get a Brave Alt

Those are linked together. The prize for winning CYL or getting second place is the Brave alt.

That aside, Roy does have his fans, but make no mistake there's a preeeeeeetty big dichotomy between people that like Smash Roy, the loud-mouthed, hot-blooded, toned as hell, offensive power-house of a god and the FE Roy, the quiet, passive, scholarly, frail, and baby-faced battlefield liability... who gets only 5 conversations in the entire game to develop himself outside of the main plot.

And Corrin is ABSOLUTELY the most controversial Fire Emblem protagonist, that's literally not arguable. Comparing them to Chrom is just... insane.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Hmmm... not liking the look of this Rindo kid personally. Neku has a standout design.

Rindo there just kinda looks to me like Streetwise Shulk. Like if Shulk just sorta burst outta the streets "Yo yo yo, I got my Monado and I'm gonna avenge my babe Fiora boiiiiiiiiiiiii!"

And he's just aggressive looking enough to do that small town Minnesota thing where he leaves through the door but then he comes back and sticks his head through the door and "And if I hear any of you fighting, if I hear you guys doing anything behind my back.... YOU'D BETTER NOT DO ANYTHING BEHIND MY BACK! YOU HEAR? GAWWWWWWWWWW. DON'T MAKE ME COME BACK IN HERE!"

Then it's just Shulk walking the streets to this hip hop version of Beyond the Sky and he meets some other alleyway gang kid "Yo yo yo I saw dis Vision man. Big robot dude with a Cockney accent. Stabbed my girl and now he's gonna stab you if you don't get out da wayyyyyyyyyyyyy"

Maybe the story will surprise me, but right now... I'm not all about Rindo in the same way that Neku IMMEDIATELY makes me go "I wanna know this kid's deal"

Ah, so Rindo will get in, then.

After all, since we already got Fantasy Goku, British Duck Hunt and Trucker Ken, Streetwise Shulk feels like the logical next step.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Well regarding Mega Man X, I guess according to Knight dude, it has been projectile Invincible in the past

Actually though, Mega Man X wasn't one of the characters I was thinking of, but I could add him to the list

Sol's Air Dash I don't think has ever been Invulnerable to Projectiles, however if they want to take liberties, they could make immune to Projectiles in Smash specfically, especially if they want to give his rushdown playstyle an easier time to manage

He also hasn't been able to Air Dash on the Ground, but there could be liberties taken. In any case Here were the characters I was thinking of, or just now thought of

-Reimu
-Sol Badguy
-Undertale character
-Lloyd (BIG IF, I imagine this would only be done to make his Combo heavy aggressive Playstyle more centric, and also balanced, but I don't believe he has specfic Dodging abilities in his games
-Mega Man X
-Shadow the Hedgehog

Be able to dodge things mid-movement?

Such as when some jackalope runs at you yelling "SAY SOMETHING, YOU FAKE HEDGEHOG!"

And you just move forward and dodge him with CHAOS CONTROL!

"Wow! He's fast! HEY, that's not his speed! He's using the Chaos Emerald to warp!"

 

[SKX31]

Dedede was added for his former villainhood and frequent possession (and Meta Knight was removed because he's very rarely a villain). I don't know much about Mega Man, so we can cut Proto and replace him with Bass(?).

Bass is a antivillain / villain kind of character where he's created by Wily, but after a couple games grows tired of Wily losing and decides to go solo. Also because Wily creates Zero behind Bass' back.

Ah, so Rindo will get in, then.

After all, since we already got Fantasy Goku, British Duck Hunt and Trucker Ken, Streetwise Shulk feels like the logical next step.

Oh god. The term "British Duck Hunt" made me think.

This song encapsulates B-K's lack of fortune after Tooie up until 2019 perfectly:

Oh are we discussing projectile glitch again? There’s only two things about it that intrigue me:
1. It apparently doesn’t need to be activated by dashing. Any sort of forward momentum will do (the only rule for this bug appears to be that the projectile hitbox hits exactly one opponent hurtbox). This also means it is not character specific.
2. All projectiles are affected. Arrows are the easiest to use but apparently someone got it to work with Snake’s Nikita, Falco’s reflector, and Min-Min’s Ramram. The last I didn’t know counted as a projectile until now.

Those makes me believe that they recently changed something regarding how projectiles work on a base level. They did something similar at patch 3.0, when they nerfed most projectiles' shield damage. While it's difficult to say if it relates to an upcoming character... thing is, Sakurai outright admitted that they had to change a lot of stuff at a base level to get to work properly.

Also worth noting, we have another rather basic bug on our hands, this time revolving around shieldstun:

For example Corrin's Fsmash and Byleth's Side B only have shieldstun multipliers for their sweetspot hitboxes on their scripts to make them safer, however they are also applied to sourspot hitboxes due to this bug making them safer than intended

— Ruben (@Ruben_dal) April 2, 2021

Now chances are pretty damn good that these are unrelated to and / or not intended for a specific upcoming character. But I don't think projectile glitch (or this glitch, which is universal) can be entirely discarded due to Steve.

 

[Eldrake]

I'd love Super Smash Villains. There's iconic third party video game villains who're extremely unlikely to be chosen before the main protagonists or mascots. A Super Smash Villains game would give them a chance at the spotlight.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Those makes me believe that they recently changed something regarding how projectiles work on a base level. They did something similar at patch 3.0, when they nerfed most projectiles' shield damage. While it's difficult to say if it relates to an upcoming character... thing is, Sakurai outright admitted that they had to change a lot of stuff at a base level to get to work properly.

Also worth noting, we have another rather basic bug on our hands, this time revolving around shieldstun:

Now chances are pretty damn good that these are unrelated to and / or not intended for a specific upcoming character. But I don't think projectile glitch (or this glitch, which is universal) can be entirely discarded due to Steve.

So... this is it, huh. Are we finally getting those 10-second stuns in Smash?

Jokes aside, looks like the coding team is working pretty heavily. Oh, and food for thought: what if we're looking at projectile glitch the wrong way? What if, instead of a character that can go through projectiles, we're dealing with a projectile that can completely go through characters?

I remember Toon Link had a Custom Move like that in 4, but so far, I think all projectiles in Ultimate are meant to either disappear on hit or, in the case of "boomerangs" like Link's, Min Min's and the Belmonts', deal knockback in a certain direction.

 

[RGFS]

So... this is it, huh. Are we finally getting those 10-second stuns in Smash?

Jokes aside, looks like the coding team is working pretty heavily. Oh, and food for thought: what if we're looking at projectile glitch the wrong way? What if, instead of a character that can go through projectiles, we're dealing with a projectile that can completely go through characters?

I remember Toon Link had a Custom Move like that in 4, but so far, I think all projectiles in Ultimate are meant to either disappear on hit or, in the case of "boomerangs" like Link's, Min Min's and the Belmonts', deal knockback in a certain direction.

Oh great. Now I'm thinking about that scene where Indiana Jones shoots a bullet through three Nazis:

Now we just need to see Simon's whip start glitching somehow and Indy is an absolute lock!

 

[Louie G.]

You would have to expunge Donkey Kong Country from the character in order for this to work. Donkey Kong Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Country Donkey Kong are two different characters with opposite roles.

Sure, but Mario vs Donkey Kong DK isn’t. Canonically yeah the original DK is a different entity, but they aren’t beyond using the modern day DK as a stand-in when applicable. I think it would “work” just fine.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Oh great. Now I'm thinking about that scene where Indiana Jones shoots a bullet through three Nazis:

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (8/10) Movie CLIP - Tank Battle (1989) HD

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade movie clips: http://j.mp/1VlqCtOBUY THE MOVIE: http://j.mp/1T0AmUcDon't miss the HOTTEST NEW TRAILERS: http://bit.ly/1u2y6...

youtu.be

Now we just need to see Simon's whip start glitching somehow and Indy is an absolute lock!

But we also have to have some kind of indication that he'll be able to lock himself in a lead-line fridge in order to survive nukes... and bashing around inside a fridge... and then walking back towards the explosion after landing

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Oh great. Now I'm thinking about that scene where Indiana Jones shoots a bullet through three Nazis:

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (8/10) Movie CLIP - Tank Battle (1989) HD

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade movie clips: http://j.mp/1VlqCtOBUY THE MOVIE: http://j.mp/1T0AmUcDon't miss the HOTTEST NEW TRAILERS: http://bit.ly/1u2y6...

youtu.be

Now we just need to see Simon's whip start glitching somehow and Indy is an absolute lock!

For his side special Indy wields... a gun:

 

[PeridotGX]

I find the idea of a Metal Face of that size incredibly funny because of the implications regarding what a size reduction would mean for him.

About the whole projectile glitch thing: regardless of my thoughts on Glitch Theory, I have to admit that it's interesting, because unlike the others we've seen so far, this one is a global change rather than a character-specific visual glitch.

At the end of the day, it's more likely just some leftovers from refactoring something, but it's still interesting to know.

This Metal Face is actually piloted by a baby Mumkhar

 

[Will]

Metal Face? Sure, why not? If you're worried about size, in the words of him, that ain't got nothing to dooooooooo with it.

Wouldn't be my first choice for additional Xeno representation but he's fun, he should've at least been upgraded to a dedicated boss. Literally free assets.

 

[Ivander]

Those are linked together. The prize for winning CYL or getting second place is the Brave alt.

That aside, Roy does have his fans, but make no mistake there's a preeeeeeetty big dichotomy between people that like Smash Roy, the loud-mouthed, hot-blooded, toned as hell, offensive power-house of a god and the FE Roy, the quiet, passive, scholarly, frail, and baby-faced battlefield liability... who gets only 5 conversations in the entire game to develop himself outside of the main plot.

And Corrin is ABSOLUTELY the most controversial Fire Emblem protagonist, that's literally not arguable. Comparing them to Chrom is just... insane.

Yeah and Roy was one of the first four, alongside Ike, Lyn and Lucina, to get a Brave Alt. What I said makes sense, right?

And I'm positive the idea of Roy being loud-mouthed comes from comics, especially Awkward Zombie. Roy is noticeably louder than Marth in terms of grunts and battle sounds, but outside battling, Roy is just as quiet. Heck, for his English voice come Ultimate, Roy's battle noises are much more quiet than his JP voice, moving him further away from the notion of him being loud-mouthed. Hot-blooded and alot of offensive power. I can see it in Smash, due to his idea of him being stronger when closer and whatnot. But Fire Emblem Roy frail and not toned compared to Smash Roy?!

Yeah, I call ignorance.

And yes Corrin was controversial. Doesn't stop her from being popular though. She clearly has fans as shown by her constant appearances at the top of Choose your Legends. And so does Chrom, who also makes constant appearances at the top of Choose your Legends. Why is it insane to compare their popularity when they are both popular characters shown by their CYL support? Is it because Corrin has stigma compared to Chrom due to her game's story being bad and her reveal looking like advertisement, despite Roy being in Smash before his game came out and Fates being out already in Japan compared to the West? And Chrom wasn't safe from stigma either in regards to Smash 4 speculation.

• Another blue haired swordsman.
• Too similar to Ike. They'll replace Ike with Chrom.
• Chrom is just a buffer Marth.
• He's such a boring pick. Why another main character?
• Robin and Lucina are better choices compared to him.

Don't act like Chrom wouldn't have gotten stigma had he been in Corrin's place as Smash 4 DLC. And as we know from Ultimate, him being in a Final Smash and Victory pose wouldn't have stopped him from getting in.

 

[Megadoomer]

There's a lot of indie Smash projects, what would your ideal roster for one be?

Mine would probably be this:

Assuming that we're sticking with a small size rather than going crazy with it.

-Shovel Knight, Shantae, Quote, and Sans all seem like they pretty much need to be here.
-I was torn between Meat Boy and Isaac from the Binding of Isaac - I didn't to include two characters from the same developer, and Meat Boy had more history behind him.
-Madeline, the Knight, Cuphead, and the Goose are from really popular games. (Madeline might be a stretch for a fighting game, but between her power-ups and her appearance in Towerfall, I figure that they could make it work)
-Ultra Fishbunjin and Orcane are already from fighting games, so they make sense.
-Wasn't sure if Miriam, Zagreus, and Juan would clash with the other characters in terms of their design, but I figure that it could work.
-Lilac, Hat Kid, and Yooka-Laylee are from solid tributes and are in several indie crossovers already.
-I figure that having a playable villain couldn't hurt, and Crow's game is about traveling to pastiches of various game worlds to kidnap the princesses of said worlds, so why not?

For reference in terms of the games that the characters are from:

Spoiler

Shovel Knight: Shovel Knight
Shantae: Shantae
Quote: Cave Story
Meat Boy: Super Meat Boy
Sans: Undertale
Madeline: Celeste
Miriam: Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night
Zagreus: Hades
Yooka and Laylee: Yooka-Laylee
Ultra Fishbunjin 3000: Slap City
The Knight: Hollow Knight
The Goose: Untitled Goose Game
Cuphead: Cuphead
Lilac: Freedom Planet
Orcane: Rivals of Aether
Juan: Guacamelee
Crow: Nefarious
Hat Kid: A Hat In Time

I could have included more characters, like Octodad, Gunvolt, or someone from Skullgirls, but I felt like 18 was pushing it as it is.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sure, but Mario vs Donkey Kong DK isn’t. Canonically yeah the original DK is a different entity, but they aren’t beyond using the modern day DK as a stand-in when applicable. I think it would “work” just fine.

I still have to disagree. Donkey Kong and Mario Vs. Donkey Kong aren't what the current rendition of Donkey Kong is all about. It's Donkey Kong Country where he is absolutely not a villain.

 

[Idon]

Yeah and Roy was one of the first four, alongside Ike, Lyn and Lucina, to get a Brave Alt. What I said makes sense, right?

And I'm positive the idea of Roy being loud-mouthed comes from comics, especially Awkward Zombie. Roy is noticeably louder than Marth in terms of grunts and battle sounds, but outside battling, Roy is just as quiet. Heck, for his English voice come Ultimate, Roy's battle noises are much more quiet than his JP voice, moving him further away from the notion of him being loud-mouthed. Hot-blooded and alot of offensive power. I can see it in Smash, due to his idea of him being stronger when closer and whatnot. But Fire Emblem Roy frail compared to Smash Roy?!

View attachment 309711
Yeah, I call ignorance.

And yes Corrin was controversial. Doesn't stop her from being popular though. She clearly has fans as shown by her constant appearances at the top of Choose your Legends. And so does Chrom, who also makes constant appearances at the top of Choose your Legends. Why is it insane to compare their popularity when they are both popular characters shown by their CYL support? Is it because Corrin has stigma compared to Chrom due to her game's story being bad and her reveal looking like advertisement, despite Roy being in Smash before his game came out and Fates being out already in Japan compared to the West? And Chrom wasn't safe from stigma either in regards to Smash 4 speculation.

• Another blue haired swordsman.
• Too similar to Ike. They'll replace Ike with Chrom.
• Chrom is just a buffer Marth.
• He's such a boring pick. Why another main character?
• Robin and Lucina are better choices compared to him.

Don't act like Chrom wouldn't have gotten stigma had he been in Corrin's place as Smash 4 DLC. And as we know from Ultimate, him being in a Final Smash and Victory pose wouldn't have stopped him from getting in.

Have you heard Roy? In either language he's extremely loud in Smash, and that's what people absolutely love about him in Smash compared to everyone else. You can go on twitter right now and see that his personality is what people are into, not Binding Blade as a game.
And uh yeah, he's frail, especially compared to how he appears in Smash, whose design doesn't even originate from an actual game.


The difference between Corrin and Chrom is that Corrin is incredibly panned to this day, meanwhile Chrom's opinion has only ever risen with time. If you want to go by Choose Your Legends and be bereft of its contexts then you may as well go as far as to say Camilla is a more popular character than everyone else there, Hell you may as well say Gatekeeper is the second most popular Fire Emblem character in the franchise, period. If you want to say "she has fans" that's true and I agree, but saying she's Chrom levels of popular due to CYL and nothing else is flawed as hell reasoning.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And uh yeah, he's frail, especially compared to how he appears in Smash, whose design doesn't even originate from an actual game.

Technically correct, but it's a mashup of his appearances in Fire Emblem: Blazing Blade, and Fire Emblem: Awakening, so it wasn't pulled from the ether as this statement implies.

Also I don't really see much of a difference in terms of musculature. I think his arms are a little bit thicker, but it looks to me like it's caused by a change in proportion than an increase in muscle mass.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

We interrupt your regularly schedule Fire Emblem argument to say:

HOLY **** GUYS HARD CORPS: UPRISING IS COMING TO GAMES WITH GOLD!

For those who don’t know:

Hard Corps: Uprising is a Contra game developed by Arc System Works. Yes, that Arc System Works. It’s a Contra game through and through so if you have an Xbox I would 100% dive on this one.

Y’all probably don’t know how big of a Konami fan (for the games not the company) I am but I’m a huge one. The most ironic part about this is that Contra and Guilty Gear are on the top of the list in my opinion for candidates going forward into smash. So seeing this game, of all of the games, popping back up into the spotlight after so long and after it didn’t get what it deserved has me super happy.

 

[Mamboo07]

Thought you guys might take a look at this:

 

[Idon]

Technically correct, but it's a mashup of his appearances in Fire Emblem: Blazing Blade, and Fire Emblem: Awakening, so it wasn't pulled from the ether as this statement implies.

Also I don't really see much of a difference in terms of musculature. I think his arms are a little bit thicker, but it looks to me like it's caused by a change in proportion than an increase in muscle mass.

It was BASED on those designs but is entirely original, just like ZSS's jet boots are "based" around Metroid's sci-fi technology. The point being, it isn't made to appeal to Fire Emblem fans of Roy, it's an appearance that makes him look cool for his return from Melee.

Proportions are probably the better comparison point, but yes. Roy doesn't resemble how he looks in his own game in body type. He's much older than how he appears in FE material.

All this to say, Roy in Smash is a creation of Smash to appeal to Smash fans. The community of "Fire Emblem fans who emulated FE6 with an English Patch and actually enjoyed Roy as a unit and character" is markedly different than the community that "Likes the cool fire sword guy" and that shouldn't be a controversial statement.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Thought you guys might take a look at this:

Sakurai: "I don't like spoilers."
Also Sakurai: adds a spoiler that simultaneously adds a harmful dramatic irony to the first playthrough of the game and makes the Final Smash inaccurate

It was BASED on those designs but is entirely original, just like ZSS's jet boots are "based" around sci-fi technology.

Er, what? No. Roy's Super Smash Bros. design is his Fire Emblem: Binding Blade design with elements pulled from his Fire Emblem: Awakening rendition. That's not how original designs work.

Zero Suit Samus's jet boots come from literally nothing since she's never had those before. Those are an original design element. Being based on a broad classification of ideas is nowhere near the same thing as being based on something specific.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing against your other points (heck, I brought up your main point first here), I just take issue with this one specifically.

 

[Mamboo07]

Sakurai: "I don't like spoilers."
Also Sakurai: adds a spoiler that simultaneously adds a harmful dramatic irony to the first playthrough of the game and makes the Final Smash inaccurate


Er, what? No. Roy's Super Smash Bros. design is his Fire Emblem: Binding Blade design with elements pulled from his Fire Emblem: Awakening rendition. That's not how original designs work.

Zero Suit Samus's jet boots come from literally nothing since she's never had those before. Those are an original design element. Being based on a broad classification of ideas is nowhere near the same thing as being based on something specific.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing against your other points (heck, I brought up your main point first here), I just take issue with this one specifically.

There's more of those spoiler things:

• Mecha Fiora
• The entire endgame of FF7
• Lucina as a playable character
• K.K Slider in Smash before Animal Crossing was announced in the west
• Master Driver Rex and Pneuma
• Dimtri and Rhea

 

[chocolatejr9]

We interrupt your regularly schedule Fire Emblem argument to say:

HOLY **** GUYS HARD CORPS: UPRISING IS COMING TO GAMES WITH GOLD!

For those who don’t know:

Hard Corps: Uprising is a Contra game developed by Arc System Works. Yes, that Arc System Works. It’s a Contra game through and through so if you have an Xbox I would 100% dive on this one.

Y’all probably don’t know how big of a Konami fan (for the games not the company) I am but I’m a huge one. The most ironic part about this is that Contra and Guilty Gear are on the top of the list in my opinion for candidates going forward into smash. So seeing this game, of all of the games, popping back up into the spotlight after so long and after it didn’t get what it deserved has me super happy.

That's not Drake of the 99 Dragons...