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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Oh, I just came up with another idea for the Smash Villains thing: Since we'd be playing as villains, it'd make sense for the bosses to be heroes. What heroes would make good bosses? My ideas:

Giant Dreamy Luigi (from Mario & Luigi Dream Team)
Dragon Corrin
Sonic and Diablon (from Shadow the Hedgehog)
Pac-Man and the Red Ghost piloting the 2nd Toc-Man (from Pac-Man World 3); either that or Pac-Man piloting a giant Mokujin like in Street Fighter x Tekken
Giga Mac
Great Fox and Arwings
Pikmin army
Four Swords Link (moving as a unit like Ice Climbers)
Super Saiyan Cat Mario

We've had two month gaps between reveals before, such as the gap between Steve and Sephiroth, and Sephiroth and Pyra/Mythra.
In each case it was 2 months + 1/2 weeks, though. That still puts us in the last week of April at the very earliest, since Pyra was revealed Feb 17th.
 

cashregister9

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My current Prediction is we will get a Nintendo Direct around early-mid-May and that will be our "E3" Direct OR it will be a Switch Pro Announcement direct and it won't have the next character in it.
 

Ivander

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Seems unfair to hold it against the entire species, but I guess people also count Meowth as a villain.
Besides Ghetsis, I believe this is the other reason why Hydreigon is seen as villian-ish.
Hydreigon, the Brutal Pokémon and the evolved form of Zweilous. Hydreigon believes that anything that moves is its opponent, viciously attacking with its three heads. The heads on their arms do not have brains. They use all three heads to consume and destroy everything.
Like that is not a Pokemon you want to meet without some sort of Pokemon ready to protect you.
So does that make Rhydon a villain too?
View attachment 309752
Probably not, as Persian has become more connected to Giovanni through the main anime and I don't think Giovanni uses Rhydon once in the main anime. Not to mention Rhyperior taking Rhydon's spotlight.
 
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PeridotGX

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I considered the idea of using cross-game echo fighrers in a similar manner, but I didn't really elect to go with that in the end.
  • No Piranha Plant?
  • Kamek is a good pick. I only left him off my roster for variety's sake.
  • Wario is... debatably a villain. Nobody's under the impression he's a nice guy, but he hasn't really been the main villain in a game in years. I wouldn't really put Donkey Kong on this roster either.
  • I've gotta give points for Vaati. After Skull Kid, I'd put him next in line.
  • King Dedede is on this roster, but Meta Knight's not?
  • Never really understood why people point to Dark Matter's Swordsman form, specifically. It only showed up once, and wasn't even the final boss when it did.
  • I definitely see the logic with Blue, but I guess his constituent Pokemon don't really strike me as fitting a villain roster even if they belong to him.
  • I guess I can't argue with Dusknoir being a villain. I put Hydreigon on mine. Although at least Hydreigon's Ghetsis' ace.
  • Dark Pit never really struck me as all that much of a villain.
  • Either Jedah is someone I don't recognize, or he's the guy from Darkstalkers.
  • I genuinely don't know enough about Fire Emblem to determine whether the Black Knight is a villain.
  • I considered Dr. Coyle, but if people already disliked Min Min's gameplay, having "Min Min, but she can fly" seems like a bad move.
  • Metal Face seems... a bit large. Though we did get Ridley.
  • I can't believe I didn't put in Master Hand on my roster.
  • I am also not sure I could consider Proto Man a villain.
  • Asriel is... an interesting pick. I can't say it's entirely unwarranted, but he'd be a bit of a spoiler. If I were to go with an Undertale villain, I'd choose Asgore.
  • I had Plant on there for awhile, but towards the end I cut him for Shadow Mario. I didn't want to over-represent Mario, and there weren't any other generic enemies so he was a bit out of place. Looking back, Mario might be a tad underrepresented, so he might as well come back.
  • I'm not overly attached to Wario being on there, I suppose he could be removed.
  • Meta Knight is really only a villain in one mode in Kirby Super Star. Dedede's also an inconsistent villain, but he at least has 3 games to his name (KDL, KA, and RoTK, as well as a few side games, possessions, and the anime.
  • Dark Matter Blade was really only chosen because he's the form that the roster maker has, and it's the one everyone's been bandwagoning for years. My idea for him takes inspiration from Robobot, where he shifts between all the forms.
  • Alakazam seems kind of evil, and Raichu works as an evil counterpart to Pikachu (I imagine TPC wants some form of the rat on the roster). That leaves Pigeot, which isn't all that evil but it's also one of the most consistent mons on Blue's teams, so it stays.
  • Dusknoir would be specifically the PMD Dusknoir, who is an antagonist. I don't love spoiling the twist, but his inclusion by itself is one of the weakest revealed in that part of the game.
  • Dark Pit was added to keep the Pit moveset, and because he's already in and has "Dark" in the title.
  • Jedah is the bad guy from Gaiden/Echoes. Black Knight is definitely a bad guy.
  • Funny thing about Coyle: I only added her to let the third parties get their own row without leaving a weird gap. Gameplay wasn't really a considering factor
  • I added Metal Face specifically because there was a Brawl Mod that got him working at a small scale. I linked it a few pages back.
  • I'm not very familiar with Classic Mega Man, I wanted someone to get Mega's Moveset and Proto is cooler than Bass.
  • If it was any other game I'd agree with you, but Undertale's been spoiled to hell and back for the past 6 years, and the scraps of Undertale content we have are even big Genocide spoilers. I also considered Undyne, but I just thought Asriel had more interesting moveset potential.
I think I'm gonna give this roster a season or two of DLC. I really like this idea now.
 
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Mamboo07

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Oh, I just came up with another idea for the Smash Villains thing: Since we'd be playing as villains, it'd make sense for the bosses to be heroes. What heroes would make good bosses? My ideas:

Giant Dreamy Luigi (from Mario & Luigi Dream Team)
Dragon Corrin
Sonic and Diablon (from Shadow the Hedgehog)
Pac-Man and the Red Ghost piloting the 2nd Toc-Man (from Pac-Man World 3); either that or Pac-Man piloting a giant Mokujin like in Street Fighter x Tekken
Giga Mac
Great Fox and Arwings
Pikmin army
Kirby with all of his final weapons for fighting final bosses of Kirby games (Rainbow Sword to Star Allies Sparkler)
 

Ivander

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fun fact his hydragon has an ability where the more the Pokémon hates their trainer the higher their strength stat is. or at least something like that, it's been awhile.
It's an attack move and it's called Frustration. Frustration has more power than more the Pokemon dislikes their trainer and Ghetsis' Hydreigon has it at full power and is one of the very rare instances of a Trainer having a Pokemon with that move. Really shows off the kind of person Ghetsis is when not only does he have a Pokemon that actually has the move, but at full power too.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Seems unfair to hold it against the entire species
#NotAllHydreigon
I believe there'll be a character reveal this month. There's no way they'll wait until june to release the next fighter.
Fighters need at least seven months to be developed. The next fighter needs at least one more, assuming development started once Steve was revealed.
 

3BitSaurus

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fun fact his hydragon has an ability where the more the Pokémon hates their trainer the higher their strength stat is. or at least something like that, it's been awhile.
It's an attack move and it's called Frustration. Frustration has more power than more the Pokemon dislikes their trainer and Ghetsis' Hydreigon has it at full power and is one of the very rare instances of a Trainer having a Pokemon with that move. Really shows off the kind of person Ghetsis is when not only does he have a Pokemon that actually has the move, but at full power too.
Conversely, if I'm not mistaken, one of Bianca's Pokémon can use Return (more power the more they love the trainer) at full power. Forgot which one it was.

It was interesting to see both of these instances in the same game. Ghetsis is one of the best villains in the series exactly because of how twisted he is imo.

I think the gens past five tried too hard to sell this angle of "actually, I thought I was doing a good thing".
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I think the gens past five tried too hard to sell this angle of "actually, I thought I was doing a good thing".
Eh, I think it's more that the later villains are just poorly written.
  • Lysandre is just diet Cyrus with the addition of being a complete idiot.
  • Lusamine is actually a well done character on the first attempt. The second one saw her being simply misguided in trying to save the world and it's not nearly as good because it doesn't have any of the emotional payoffs that the first one did.
  • Necrosma is just like "ah yes hello I am a thing now" and fails to hold much narrative weight despite abducting Nebby.
  • Chairman Rose is forgotten by the game until it remembers it needed a villain plot so Darkest Day it is.
 
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3BitSaurus

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Eh, I think it's more that the later villains are just poorly written.
  • Lysandre is just diet Cyrus with the addition of being a complete idiot.
  • Lusamine is actually a well done character on the first attempt. The second one saw her being simply misguided in trying to save the world and it's not nearly as good because it doesn't have any of the emotional payoffs that the first one did.
  • Necrosma is just like "ah yes hello I am a thing now" and fails to hold much narrative weight despite abducting Nebby.
  • Chairman Rose is forgotten by the game until it remembers it needed a villain plot so Darkest Day it is.
Not to mention their whole shenanigans with the legendaries have almost no weight compared to previous gens. Even 3 and 4 felt more impactful, because Maxie and Archie actually realized they've ****** up by trying to control forces they don't understand and Cyrus, despite not having too much of a backstory besides that one NPC in Sunyshore, actually sets himself apart just based on the fact that he essentially gives up on humanity and stays in the Distortion World.

Basically, Gens 3 to 5 used the legendaries in favor of the plot and developing the human characters, gens 6 forward don't. As you mentioned, they kinda started to get the hang of it back in SM, but by USUM we were back to the new formula.
 

chocolatejr9

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Well, here's something to spark a new topic:


So apparently, PushDustin was in a video with PapaGenos, and he mentioned that he thinks that Fighter 11 will be a brand new first party character so that the game "doesn't feel dated". However, as shown here, he doesn't consider Byleth, Min Min, or Pyra to fill that role. Thoughts on that?
 

ahemtoday

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Well, here's something to spark a new topic:


So apparently, PushDustin was in a video with PapaGenos, and he mentioned that he thinks that Fighter 11 will be a brand new first party character so that the game "doesn't feel dated". However, as shown here, he doesn't consider Byleth, Min Min, or Pyra to fill that role. Thoughts on that?
Gosh, I hope not.
 

PeridotGX

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I expanded on the villain roster, with a theoretical DLC season. Plant on, or the green characters, are the DLC. I kinda just went crazy with it.
Villains Roster_DLC.png
I also made a version where all the fighters are next to eachother, regardless of DLC.
Villains_DLC_Sorted Roster.png

I got burnt out about halfway through this.
 

cashregister9

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Well, here's something to spark a new topic:


So apparently, PushDustin was in a video with PapaGenos, and he mentioned that he thinks that Fighter 11 will be a brand new first party character so that the game "doesn't feel dated". However, as shown here, he doesn't consider Byleth, Min Min, or Pyra to fill that role. Thoughts on that?
Well If Byleth and Min Min don't fit that role then it is probably impossible to discuss specifics because it would have to be newcomer from a game not even announced yet.
 
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spicynun

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Well, here's something to spark a new topic:


So apparently, PushDustin was in a video with PapaGenos, and he mentioned that he thinks that Fighter 11 will be a brand new first party character so that the game "doesn't feel dated". However, as shown here, he doesn't consider Byleth, Min Min, or Pyra to fill that role. Thoughts on that?
Sounds like speculation based on nothing to me
 

SpecterFlower

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Conversely, if I'm not mistaken, one of Bianca's Pokémon can use Return (more power the more they love the trainer) at full power. Forgot which one it was.

It was interesting to see both of these instances in the same game. Ghetsis is one of the best villains in the series exactly because of how twisted he is imo.

I think the gens past five tried too hard to sell this angle of "actually, I thought I was doing a good thing".
Gen 5 was the peak of pokemon and for some reason it's bad because of sentient garbage and ice cream, let's just ignore the sentient bells, magnet's, every rotom form and the fact we have so many Pokémon that are just real life animals in the previous games.

the fanbase has come around to it now though.
 

Will

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I expanded on the villain roster, with a theoretical DLC season. Plant on, or the green characters, are the DLC. I kinda just went crazy with it.
I also made a version where all the fighters are next to eachother, regardless of DLC.
I got burnt out about halfway through this.
So burnt out you put in Blood Falcon but thought Black Shadow, literally his boss and creator, wasn't worth the final cut? I'm hurt. :076:
 

RileyXY1

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Well If Byleth and Min Min don't fit that role then it is probably impossible to discuss specifics because it would have to be newcomer from a game not even announced yet.
And since Pokemon's new game is remake with minimal changes and FE is unlikely to get a new title I don't know who we are gonna get.
 

Ivander

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Well, here's something to spark a new topic:


So apparently, PushDustin was in a video with PapaGenos, and he mentioned that he thinks that Fighter 11 will be a brand new first party character so that the game "doesn't feel dated". However, as shown here, he doesn't consider Byleth, Min Min, or Pyra to fill that role. Thoughts on that?
This would be very tough. I checked the list of Switch Nintendo games and the only notable ones that I found that were released after Fire Emblem Three Houses were:
-Astral Chain - August 2019
-Ring Fit Adventure - October 2019
-Pokemon Sword & Shield - November 2019
-Animal Crossing New Horizons - March 2020
-Paper Mario: Origami King - July 2020
-Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity - November 2020

The only title that looks like they'd fit that description would be Pokemon, as Astral and Ring Fit got spirits and Animal Crossing, Paper Mario and Hyrule Warriors don't exactly have any notable new characters.

And that's assuming they mean a first party and not a 3rd Party. A 3rd party with the conditions of Greninja would be frickin' rare though. That would imply that a 3rd Party company came to Sakurai while he's deciding the characters for Fighter Pass 2 and showed this unreleased character for this unreleased game. And I can't imagine that ever happening.

All that aside, it is just speculation though.
 
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DarthEnderX

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While I want a lot more villains in Smash, this idea of a villain-only roster is just weird.

I'd rather see a Smash story mode where all the villains actually team up, instead of another one where some dumb Smash OC mind controls everyone...
 

chocolatejr9

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This would be very tough. I checked the list of Switch Nintendo games and the only notable ones that I found that were released after Fire Emblem Three Houses were:
-Astral Chain - August 2019
-Ring Fit Adventure - October 2019
-Pokemon Sword & Shield - November 2019
-Animal Crossing New Horizons - March 2020
-Paper Mario: Origami King - July 2020
-Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity - November 2020

The only title that looks like they'd fit that description would be Pokemon, as Astral and Ring Fit got spirits and Animal Crossing, Paper Mario and Hyrule Warriors don't exactly have any notable new characters.

And that's assuming they mean a first party and not a 3rd Party. A 3rd party with the conditions of Greninja would be frickin' rare though. That would imply that a 3rd Party company came to Sakurai while he's deciding the characters for Fighter Pass 2 and showed this unreleased character for this unreleased game. And I can't imagine that ever happening.

All that aside, it is just speculation though.
For what it's worth, Delzethin replied to this and noted that, if this character was from a brand new game, then said game would have to have been in an almost finished state by February, so that he could have something to work with. We all know how Melee Roy turned out...
 
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Well, here's something to spark a new topic:

So apparently, PushDustin was in a video with PapaGenos, and he mentioned that he thinks that Fighter 11 will be a brand new first party character so that the game "doesn't feel dated". However, as shown here, he doesn't consider Byleth, Min Min, or Pyra to fill that role. Thoughts on that?
There isn't much to add that would fit. Under PushDustin's criteria, it's unlikely that Pokemon would even fit since it was a 2019 game (so was Three Houses). Everything else is either covered well enough or has had spirit events. Normally I would agree with the sentiment, but the last direct gave us basically nothing that would work, unless Nintendo really wants to push Famicom Club. And I kind of doubt it, considering it's seemingly digital only outside of Japan.

I would argue that Byleth, Min Min and Pyra do fit the role of contemporary fighters along with Joker, but that's semantics when it's clear he's talking about 2020/2021.
 

PeridotGX

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What if the game that the promotional character was supposed to promote was supposed to be released by now, but the schedule got messed up?

I'm just imagining Sakurai scrambling to justify why he added Chibi Robo when Zip Lash II won't be announced for another year.
 

SpecterFlower

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Well, here's something to spark a new topic:


So apparently, PushDustin was in a video with PapaGenos, and he mentioned that he thinks that Fighter 11 will be a brand new first party character so that the game "doesn't feel dated". However, as shown here, he doesn't consider Byleth, Min Min, or Pyra to fill that role. Thoughts on that?
stylist is becoming more likely by the day!

if fp11 comes out around style savyy launch then i can see that being our finale character

What if the game that the promotional character was supposed to promote was supposed to be released by now, but the schedule got messed up?

I'm just imagining Sakurai scrambling to justify why he added Chibi Robo when Zip Lash II won't be announced for another year.
especially if it's a new ip.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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So apparently, PushDustin was in a video with PapaGenos, and he mentioned that he thinks that Fighter 11 will be a brand new first party character so that the game "doesn't feel dated". However, as shown here, he doesn't consider Byleth, Min Min, or Pyra to fill that role. Thoughts on that?
I don't think this will happen. The last two super promo picks like that have been from games that they were heavily advertizing for the year/the year prior, and there aren't any potential games that fit that description.

I mean, unless they want to pick a champion or something for The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild's sequel, or maaaaybe Ayumi.

I'd rather see a Smash story mode where all the villains actually team up, instead of another one where some dumb Smash OC mind controls everyone...
pushes up glasses

Um actually, Tabuu never used mind control. He used light chains to stab Master Hand and control him like a puppet, and Ganondorf just answers to Master Hand for some reason...and Bowser answers to Ganondorf for some reason...

Yeah Tabuu's plan doesn't really make all that much sense now that I say this.
 

Shroob

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I believe there'll be a character reveal this month. There's no way they'll wait until june to release the next fighter.
Sure they can.

We got Pyra/Mythra not even a full month ago. Calm your horses, we got a ways to go. Everyone seems to forget we waited roughly 80-something days between characters in recent past, over 100 between Min Min and Steve.
 

PeridotGX

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I believe there'll be a character reveal this month. There's no way they'll wait until june to release the next fighter.
i feel like
I'n the opposite. I want the next character to realease in June, and the final in September. Drag the reveals out for as long as possible, I'm not ready for the show to end.
 
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cothero

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Don't set your heart on it. We just got Pythra less than a month ago. Earliest we will see is May, and even then I think a Nintendo Direct in June is the likeliest outcome at the end of the day.
Sephiroth and Pythra were revelaed/released only two months away from each other, so i think it's perfectly possible.
 

Shroob

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Sephiroth and Pythra were revelaed/released only two months away from each other, so i think it's perfectly possible.
Sephiroth was revealed at The Game Awards, and P/M in the first Nintendo Direct in over a year and a half.

The last Direct covered releases that go up to May, we're not getting another full blown Direct until May AT THE EARLIEST, and even then, they'd probably save it until June.
 

DevaAshera

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Since Pyra shown me that booty shorts aren't immediate grounds for be unplayable, I decided to update the Smash DLC thing I made for 2B to feature A2 as an alternate costume, both with their artwork shown censored in such a way that they could fit with the CERO requirements.
Similarly to :ultbyleth::ultbylethf:, 2B and A2 would have different idle animations, taunts, and victory poses, and similarly to Cloud, they could feature different Final Smashes that still act the same but better express the character being currently played as.

2BA2 SmashTemplate.png


Additionally, the thought of Sakurai working with Yoko Taro, eccentric weirdo that he is, is kind of hilarious.
 

Commander_Alph

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Since Pyra shown me that booty shorts aren't immediate grounds for be unplayable, I decided to update the Smash DLC thing I made for 2B to feature A2 as an alternate costume, both with their artwork shown censored in such a way that they could fit with the CERO requirements.
Similarly to :ultbyleth::ultbylethf:, 2B and A2 would have different idle animations, taunts, and victory poses, and similarly to Cloud, they could feature different Final Smashes that still act the same but better express the character being currently played as.

View attachment 309776

Additionally, the thought of Sakurai working with Yoko Taro, eccentric weirdo that he is, is kind of hilarious.
Just asking, does 2B and A2 have similarities to one another that you decided A2 to be that of a costume, does she like fight with the same weapon or something?
 
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SharkLord

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Well, here's something to spark a new topic:


So apparently, PushDustin was in a video with PapaGenos, and he mentioned that he thinks that Fighter 11 will be a brand new first party character so that the game "doesn't feel dated". However, as shown here, he doesn't consider Byleth, Min Min, or Pyra to fill that role. Thoughts on that?
With DLC and updates extending a game's relevancy, I think Byleth counts as a "promotional" character a la Greninja. They were even described as such by Sakurai, "Someone from a game people are playing at the time." I agree with Push regarding Min Min and Pyra, though. 2-3 years after release is probably not "brand new."
 

Cutie Gwen

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Just asking, does 2B and A2 have similarities to one another that you decided A2 to be that of a costume, does she like fight with the same weapon or something?
It's been a while but iirc, A2's real difference is no selfdestruct but instead a rage mode that depletes her health, both use dual weapons whereas 9S only gets 1 weapon at a time but he can hack enemies with the shmup gameplay
 

SnowClaws

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Well, here's something to spark a new topic:


So apparently, PushDustin was in a video with PapaGenos, and he mentioned that he thinks that Fighter 11 will be a brand new first party character so that the game "doesn't feel dated". However, as shown here, he doesn't consider Byleth, Min Min, or Pyra to fill that role. Thoughts on that?
Well, out of the five Nintendo characters in my prediction list that could be one of the final two fighters for Fighter's Pass 2, I think Luke from Buddy Mission: BOND kinda fit the description of promoting a "not dated" game.


This game was released in January 2021, and may be in development alongside other Koei Tecmo project like Fire Emblem Three Houses DLC (2019) and Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity (2020) giving this character a slim chance of being the fighter. Also, with the news of Hayabusa not being the frontrunner due to the many interviews, I feels that Luke who is co-owned by Nintendo and Koei Tecmo has a much better shot than the other KT properties.

In addition, I like the idea of a Corrin situation where the game is released first in Japan and later for the rest of the world (if a localization for other languages is possible). In a funny twist, just like Byleth whose game have the involvement of KT, Luke would be another character with KT connection to overtake the KT fighter spot.

What else do I like about this character? Oh right, the art style is drawn by Yusuke Murata who was the artist for Eyeshield 21 and the redrawn version of One-Punch Man. So, get ready for a fantastic animated trailer, and maybe a drawing of Luke alongside the other Smash fighters done by Mr. Murata.

Here, is this game opening
 
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