DK mains are pretty sexy | DK Social Thread

[SuSa]

Also guys, congratulate Daisho for finally almost learning the Snake matchup.

He almost took a game off me yesterday in the AiB ladder.

Yoshi's Island is officially broken for DK.

The fact I am 84 and 8 means this is a relatively big deal for online.

 

[Ragnar0k]

Yoshi's is my counterpick usually, everyone in my state bans it against me now and TO's made it a counterpick.

 

[Big O]

I personally hate YI because that level hates me back. You have no idea how many times the ghost saves my opponents, pops up right after i die (extremely annoying), and screws me over when I use an aerial while edgeguarding only to get landing lag and punished. I honestly can't remember one time it has actually helped me. I just wish there was some way to know when the ghost appears. As far as I know it is completely random. I just have really bad luck when it comes to randomness in games.

 

[daisho]

I personally hate YI because that level hates me back. You have no idea how many times the ghost saves my opponents, pops up right after i die (extremely annoying), and screws me over when I use an aerial while edgeguarding only to get landing lag and punished. I honestly can't remember one time it has actually helped me. I just wish there was some way to know when the ghost appears. As far as I know it is completely random. I just have really bad luck when it comes to randomness in games.

Worst is when you land in the "on the ground" position and it goes away while your on it... then you need to get up and jump... i always die

But Yoshis is still too godly of a stage.

Someone please figure out the timing for invincible up b on brinstar (i know you can do it on the right, not sure of the left).

 

[Big O]

Worst is when you land in the "on the ground" position and it goes away while your on it... then you need to get up and jump... i always die

But Yoshis is still too godly of a stage.

Someone please figure out the timing for invincible up b on brinstar (i know you can do it on the right, not sure of the left).

Well the thing about the invincibile up b is that as long as you up b when you are touching/about to touch the slope in the air it should work. I've gotten the up b trick to work on almost any slope including Corneria and the beach on Delphino. I would guess as long as there is a 30 degree angle you can do the invincible up b on it. Timing it to work on slopes not next to the edge is pretty tricky though.

On an unrelated note, how would you guys rebalance DK? I've been playing the Balanced Brawl hack lately and I really like where they are going with it. They are basically using hacks to take out the broken stuff like D3's infinite and gives buffs and nerfs to certain characters. The only characters that got nerfed overall were the top three so far. They are aiming for every character to be viable by themselves and have no match-ups worse than 40:60. It is still a beta so a lot of things are still up in the air as far as buffs and tweaks. You can see all the details in the main thread in the smash workshop.

The only change they have given DK so far is 1 more damage on his down b. Keep in mind that buffing damage increases knockback, shieldstun, shield damage, and shield knockback all at once too. It isn't that much, but DK being one of the most balanced characters already doesn't really need much. What do you guys think would help DK vs match-ups like Olimar and Ivysaur (he got a lot better and Reflex ***** me with Ivysaur at Genesis in Brawl doubles so I would guess DK vs Ivy is one of his worst match-ups now).

 

[Ruuku]

I would like it if DK's ftilt was as fast as his dtilt or utilt. And to complete his throw game it would only make sense for him to have a strong throw like Ness's back throw. After all, DK's a big azz gorilla. And yo if the initial slap of his down B came out a few frames faster, I would freaking get up and do little dance.

 

[daisho]

They don't like to change speeds.

I gave a whole list of stuff in the thread.

Getting rid of the cargo glitch.

Giving side B more damage would actually break, that thing should break shields more reliably.

I don't even remember the rest.

But as you said, DK is balanced and probably doesn't even have any matchups worse than 60:40.

 

[Big O]

Most of the stuff I had in mind were just fixing his moves. Making the headbutt sourspot safe on hit/make it always sweetspot, making Nair bigger and have a lower launch angle, making the headbutt have less lag, making his dash attack have a lower launch angle, and giving his Ftilt a bit more knockback at low damage. Getting a stronger Uthrow/Bthrow, being able to grab ledges with the punch, getting rid of the cargo glitch, and being able to DI backwards during grounded up b would be cool too. I doubt they can actually make the last three happen though.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

I would like it if DK's ftilt was as fast as his dtilt or utilt. And to complete his throw game it would only make sense for him to have a strong throw like Ness's back throw. After all, DK's a big azz gorilla. And yo if the initial slap of his down B came out a few frames faster, I would freaking get up and do little dance.

dk's bthrow can kill, at like 130 by the ledge, just jab a few times, once you here them start to wiggle, bthrow and they'll **** up the DI

 

[Big O]

I actually like messing around with the timing. Sometimes throwing ASAP throws off their DI. Other times a slap or two is just right. It's good to keep them on their toes. Lol sometimes after you really get in their head they stop/slow down their mashing waiting for the throw.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I just realised something: this board is the least posted on of all the Brawl character boards! Oh well, quality over quantity, right?

On the topic of improvements to DK's moveset, I'd really like it if DK got just a tad more vertical distance on his up B. I know he had poor vertical recovery in 64 and Melee too, but it still annoys me since all Meteor Smashes screw you over. Oh, and Dair could do with less landing lag.

 

[daisho]

Those are two things they don't like to change. DKs recovery while not great is really not so bad for any of his matchups and they don't make such huge changes.

They also almost never change lag on moves.


Also, we used to be second last, did bowser catch up?

 

[mountain_tiger]

Oh wait, I checked again and it turns out that we're last in terms of threads, but second last in terms of posts. Still, I'd have thought that this board would have more discussion in it...

 

[itsthebigfoot]

1. nobody plays dk, so why would anyone post about him
2. why talk about what you'd like to improve? it won't change, try finding new stuff with the tools you have, or at least start to implement it (jab lock +gfsc anyone? also b reversal punches)

 

[Big O]

Well they actually can make the changes with hacks (which is how Balanced Brawl makes any changes). I also just find it interesting what small changes to his moves could do for balance and adding flavor in general.

It is a shame DK is so unpopular. Ganon and DK are the most fun and rewarding characters IMO and nothing feels better than a well timed punch ftw/ epic comeback.

EDIT: I actually found out some pretty interesting stuff with DK. I'll probably make a new thread about it.

 

[mountain_tiger]

1. nobody plays dk, so why would anyone post about him
2. why talk about what you'd like to improve? it won't change, try finding new stuff with the tools you have, or at least start to implement it (jab lock +gfsc anyone? also b reversal punches)

Brawl+ can make changes to characters.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

the difference being this is the normal brawl boards

 

[daisho]

Well its the social thread, we were just talking about what Balanced Brawl (a new project unrelated to brawl +) could do to improve DK.

IDK if i just fail at tech skill but i seriously can't do GFSC, like 1 in 20 i get.

I think GFSC while has limited uses could be useful against someone like olimar. He pretty much stays still to grab you often so maybe we can jump on his head...

 

[Big O]

The more I look into GFSC the more disappointing it gets. Most of our tougher opponents can always powershield it making it useless. Jab locks are awesome but everyone I regularly play with never mess up their teching. DK doesn't have anything that sets it up in neutrals besides the last hit of up b which doesn't work until like 60%.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

@ big o, I thought they could powershield it too, but if you're quick enough you can get it off before they shield

 

[Big O]

It is character dependant. Each character has different "I just got jumped on by a gorilla lag." Snake, D3, Diddy, and Tink all can powershield GFSC headbutts. There's probably more but I never felt like testing it on everyone.

EDIT: You can add Pit and Ivysaur to that list. It should work on everyone else that you normally see in tourneys.

 

[Ragnar0k]

I actually found out some pretty interesting stuff with DK. I'll probably make a new thread about it.

Do it, that would be awesome. I'd like to know before herb 2, which is this saturday, if possible.

 

[ook]

Do it, that would be awesome. I'd like to know before herb 2, which is this saturday, if possible.

yes, do it



And unrelated, but.... don't you love when you counterpick Japes, and the other guy switches to Falco, and he's like "sorry man, I gotta do it."
And then he gets 2-stocked.


No one can beat DK on japes. NO ONE!
especially not that ***** falco


It's the same way when someone counterpicks dedede and you beat them.
It's like, "sorry for what?" lol

it feels so good

 

[Luigi player]

yes, do it



And unrelated, but.... don't you love when you counterpick Japes, and the other guy switches to Falco, and he's like "sorry man, I gotta do it."
And then he gets 2-stocked.


No one can beat DK on japes. NO ONE!
especially not that ***** falco


It's the same way when someone counterpicks dedede and you beat them.
It's like, "sorry for what?" lol

it feels so good

Nice. Well the D3 thing probably won't happen though, lol.


And btw, GFSC is really easy if you change Y to special. I just press X to footstool, then quickly press right/left (or left/right) & Y. (Y + X are pressed nearly at the same time)

It's not difficult to pull it off, but it's difficult to footstool your enemy... seriously he's never doing nothing. =P It seems nearly pointless...

 

[mountain_tiger]

No one can beat DK on japes. NO ONE!

Peach says hi.

 

[mr.fizwidget]

dk says lol peach

 

[itsthebigfoot]

Peach says hi.

lol, peach, now that I know her tricksies I'm pretty sure I can beat peach on japes (she can't ko you at all)

also, I beat lain's ddd on japes, so i'd say its fine for ddds

really good falcos are problems though, I don't cp it on larry

 

[Jmex]

really good falcos are problems though, I don't cp it on larry

After counter picking SK92 on it. I learned my lesson.

 

[mountain_tiger]

lol, peach, now that I know her tricksies I'm pretty sure I can beat peach on japes (she can't ko you at all)

Is that all you lot ever think about when you think of Peach? Yes, she does have issues killing, but she can rack up damage on you so quickly it makes up for that.

Besides that, Jungle Japes is easily her best stage. She can recover way easier than most characters because of her floating ability, the edges allow her to do a Peach Bomber and grab the ledge for invincibility frames, and she can pressure off the sides well. FSmash is sort of ruled out due to the chance of getting a frying pan. USmash is less effective, but since this is USmash we're talking about here, it'll still kill you at around 130%. Fair is no less effective because the side blast lines aren't too far. Nair and Bair work well too.

And Peach herself won't get kileld as easily here. USmash, UTilt and DSmash won't kill her as early here, allowing her more of a chance.

Thus, Peach > Donkey Kong on Jungle Japes.

 

[KillaFrmNY]

Is that all you lot ever think about when you think of Peach? Yes, she does have issues killing, but she can rack up damage on you so quickly it makes up for that.

Besides that, Jungle Japes is easily her best stage. She can recover way easier than most characters because of her floating ability, the edges allow her to do a Peach Bomber and grab the ledge for invincibility frames, and she can pressure off the sides well. FSmash is sort of ruled out due to the chance of getting a frying pan. USmash is less effective, but since this is USmash we're talking about here, it'll still kill you at around 130%. Fair is no less effective because the side blast lines aren't too far. Nair and Bair work well too.

And Peach herself won't get kileld as easily here. USmash, UTilt and DSmash won't kill her as early here, allowing her more of a chance.

Thus, Peach > Donkey Kong on Jungle Japes.

AS far as i"m concerned, Peach's fair is the only thing that kills me.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Any Peach who uses nothing but Fair to kill is doing it wrong. It's not like that's her only kill move. Her most reliable one, yes. Her only one, no.

 

[daisho]

I live consistently to 180 against peach... most peaches don't save their fair enough and it gets too stale to kill early.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I live consistently to 180 against peach... most peaches don't save their fair enough and it gets too stale to kill early.

Sometimes that's true. But we have ways to refresh Fair back to its original strength. Slaps, dash attacks, pummels and DSmashes all refresh moves multiple times, and since they never kill anyway, those moves are fine to stale. And Peach can get up to that percent quicker than you would expect. If you get caught in a Dair combo, that's 40% on your stock right there and then. Plus she makes up for her lack of killing power with edgeguarding.

There's more to Brawl than how much kill power someone has. And if you get hit by a USmash sweetspot, even on Jungle Japes that kills pretty early. I think it out-prioritises his Dair too, though I'm not 100% on that. Oh, and her FSmash tennis racket is pretty painful too.

Donkey Kong definitely has the upper hand in kill power, that's solid fact. But if her opponent is living past 160% or so, then her kill moves are probably stale, and she isn't taking her chances to edgeguard.

 

[ook]

I have a tough time beating peach on neutrals. What you're saying about making up for lack of killing power with combos and edgeguarding is true, except for on Japes.


On japes, it's just ridiculous. Being the 2nd heaviest character in the game, with a momentum braking move (that is relatively safe to use on Japes), on such a massive stage with the highest ceiling in the game, combined with peach's general hard time killing even on normal stages, and her most reliable kill move being fairly vulnerable to SA punch, combined with Japes just being an incredible stage for DK anyway (super armor up-b glitches off the ledges, falling in the water or going under/above the stage with DK's horizonal recovery to avoid edgeguarding, etc.) makes it DK's advantage. Peach's advantages on the stage pale in comparison to DK's.

The only time Peach is killing DK on Japes is after DK kills Peach (to unstale her moves, after racking up 280%+)



on stages other than Japes... yeah, peach puts up a fight. And possibly has the advantage.
But not in the jungle, baby
That's donkey kong country

 

[mountain_tiger]

Actually, she can easily unstale her moves without dying. At around 100%, if she can get a grab in, all she has to do is pummel three times and throw. That's halfway towards refreshing her moves already. Then all she has to do is slap a couple of times, and her moves are completely fresh. And turnips are even more useufl here due to the small stage size, which can be used to edgeguard even better (though admittedly, DK in general isn't exactly easy to edgeguard).

Oh, and on other stages, it's usually considered even IIRC.

 

[Luigi player]

Characters can maybe pivot grab DK out of DKs upB even if he has SA...

 

[daisho]

Actually, she can easily unstale her moves without dying. At around 100%, if she can get a grab in, all she has to do is pummel three times and throw. That's halfway towards refreshing her moves already. Then all she has to do is slap a couple of times, and her moves are completely fresh. And turnips are even more useufl here due to the small stage size, which can be used to edgeguard even better (though admittedly, DK in general isn't exactly easy to edgeguard).

Oh, and on other stages, it's usually considered even IIRC.

I think you have to wait like 7 frames or something for pummels to count.

Your saying that she is good because she can edgeguard but there is no direct edguarding on the stage and its certainly impossible to edgegurad DK.

 

[Ragnar0k]

anyone can get grabbed out of SA.

 

[daisho]

But most characters can't grab you out of up b. Or if they can the timing is so strict its impractical.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Even if it does take practically forever for Peach to kill Donkey Kong on this stage, it's still in her favour on this stage because of her turnips. The way the stage is configured, anyone with projectiles can easily outspace anyone who doesn't have one. And as long as she always has one in hand, it makes a great ooS option, meaning that she can camp in her shield, and if you use anything other than a grab, she can simply throw the turnips out of her shield and hit you, at which point she can get in a grab, leading into a combo. And then the whole thing resets. On stages like Battlefield and Smashville the turnips aren't quite as big a threat, but on this stage she can simply camp on the upper platforms until you get to around 200% or whatever it takes for her to kill you.