DK Advancement of Metagame thread |Updated Random ideas 10/28/10!!!

[Luigi player]

I don't know for sure, but I think SA grounded upB will only beat tornado if you hit with one of the later SA frames, because MKs hitbox won't hit you for a few frames after it hit you(r SA), and if your hitbox comes out before he hits you again then you will hit him out of it.

10-16 SA, 19 hitbox comes out

SO for example maybe it works if he hit your SA on frame 14-16 or something, maybe someone can test it...

 

[YooY]

I don't know for sure but i think if the nado isn't on the ground upb's hitbox must hit directly MK for stoping it. So you have to SA at the end of SA frames and to enter in the Tornado o:

 

[Flashing]

Guys I thought we were talking about shuttle loop? Obviously nado beats up b in every way unless you time it exactly right in his late tornado to perfectly counter it. Now what I want to know is does his up b beat shuttle loop because I think its possible since I've done it once or twice and I think I saw it in a dubz vid.

 

[YooY]

I don't know if both are perfect timed but offstage Upb's invicibility is broken and you can beat all moves or maybe not other invicibility

 

[FD96]

This is off topic, but I have been wondering this. When you hit someone off the stage at low percents do you normally chase after them for a gimp or do you charge up your Punch. And same with higher percentages? Because I normally just charge up my Punch but I'm not sure if that is correct.

 

[Luigi player]

This is off topic, but I have been wondering this. When you hit someone off the stage at low percents do you normally chase after them for a gimp or do you charge up your Punch. And same with higher percentages? Because I normally just charge up my Punch but I'm not sure if that is correct.

That depends on the character, how they are recovering (high/low), how far away they are (horizontally)...

Like if I cargo dtoss a Snake offstage I try to follow up/predict/mindgame him to hit him, but if I don't hit him and/or he's going too high up then I charge my punch.

Most of the time I don't chase MK offstage, maybe if he's at the height of the stage and far away from it (because if he hits you you won't die and a bair could KO him so it could be worth the risk getting a few %s).
If he's too low/high though then you probably can't do anything against him anyway so you can just charge your punch.


You can also vary it a bit. Like if the opponent is far offstage, charge your punch just a little bit, then stop charging and jump off to hit him...

Like I said, it depends on many factors. You can just try everything out in friendlies or something and see for yourself what works best in each situation. =)

 

[crifer]

Guys how do you beat charizard´s rock smash? (sideB?)

 

[Luigi player]

Guys how do you beat charizard´s rock smash? (sideB?)

shield/hit him before it's hitbox comes out/evade it...

 

[FD96]

I just did a really surprising ledge technique. I am unsure if everyone already knows about it but what I did was when I was on the ledge I did a jump and immediately did a side B so that I landed on the ground and the enemy was stuck in the ground so I could just destroy them with a punch or down smash or whatever I wanted to.

Then I started trying other ledge techniques and one that I thought would surprise them would be to jump out of the ledge past them while charging up your Punch then unleash the power of the Punch right in their face.

I don't know if these are any good, as I haven't done them against real people yet.

 

[Justin Wiles]

Ledge jump > Headbutt I have pulled off before. It's pretty rad. Same with Ledge hop > Punch, which works surprisingly well.

 

[marmitonkiller]

I found out something realy usefull yesterday when I was at a smashfest the DK up b glitch on JJ that make the superarmor stay during all the upb can work on every stage!
you have to do an upb at the end of the stage then comebak on the stage with the good timing I will try to make a thread and a video about this soon!!!

 

[Ragnar0k]

Yeah you can rar jump cancel up b to get the momentum back onto the stage too.

 

[FD96]

Two things, did you guys know that UpB can be used as a spike? Also when and how do you use Fair?

 

[Cyphus]

man, all those tricks are so 2009, lol

 

[ook]

Nice 3000th post

 

[Scabe]

Well most of the members are new, so there's bound to be things that are said that are already known. Someone wise should take over this thread.

 

[Cyphus]

Recent notes and experimentation recommendations:

using this fight(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ9gt1oe4Zs) at 5:07 as an example, i do a cargo-release to Jab Combo. Outside the ness/lucas dept., the jabs would not be 'guaranteed', but i argue little to nothing is guaranteed, and the tactic is still useful. In fact only a few characters can slip outside the jab range if they're DIing away (which noone does because they're either mashing or holding Up)
when someone is cargo'd they just want to get out, and often do not plan what they should do if they do happen to get out: which is either rolling backwards are beating DK to the Jab...

if they basically do anything outside shielding or jabbing (or UpBing if ur marth, mk, etc), DK's jab is likely to sneak in - and continue into the 2nd hit or bait them for a grab. The Cargo release itself deals 6%, and if u sneak in a pummel headslap for 3%...= You have a quick 20% for the jab combo, or a 'grab-reset' gimmick so to speak.


His UpAir is underused. it can legit-combo off b.air, And its his quickest, best option to OOS someone above/infront(even standing oponents as short as toon link get hit if done early enough!) Fresh, it kills ~100-140%.
Hit someone w/ an upair at low percent and UpB (before landing) followup for 40+%.




UpB can intercept alot of combos, like Peach's D.air, but it needs be tested for all multihit moves. Help is needed on this, such as Can DK DI-UpB punish from getting hit by Snake's N.air?




also sexy:
DK can grab release Wario to (turn around) B.air.

When someone is b.aired, if they DI away, it usually leads to more b.airs, if they DI up and away a DJ b.air can pursue and often lead to another. If they DI upwards, you simply immediately followup w/ an upair [to uptilt, at low percent].

This should be his dominant grab-release damage racker, as it can combo into itself and/or upairs from low-mid percents. (unless u have, and dont mind nerfing, you're giant punch for the 28%.
At starting percents, release to SH double b.air can combo into a up/f.tilt or even a grab!!
example: grab, release, b.air-b.air, grab, release, jump upB (~70%!)

u could go for more b.airs too if u want, or release to SH UpAir-UpB at low percent, or full jump UpAir-UpB at mid.

 

[¿Qué?]

Recent notes and experimentation recommendations:

using this fight(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ9gt1oe4Zs) at 5:07 as an example, i do a cargo-release to Jab Combo. Outside the ness/lucas dept., the jabs would not be 'guaranteed', but i argue little to nothing is guaranteed, and the tactic is still useful. In fact only a few characters can slip outside the jab range if they're DIing away (which noone does because they're either mashing or holding Up)
when someone is cargo'd they just want to get out, and often do not plan what they should do if they do happen to get out: which is either rolling backwards are beating DK to the Jab...

if they basically do anything outside shielding or jabbing (or UpBing if ur marth, mk, etc), DK's jab is likely to sneak in - and continue into the 2nd hit or bait them for a grab. The Cargo release itself deals 6%, and if u sneak in a pummel headslap for 3%...= You have a quick 20% for the jab combo, or a 'grab-reset' gimmick so to speak.


His UpAir is underused. it can legit-combo off b.air, And its his quickest, best option to OOS someone above/infront(even standing oponents as short as toon link get hit if done early enough!) Fresh, it kills ~100-140%.
Hit someone w/ an upair at low percent and UpB (before landing) followup for 40+%.




UpB can intercept alot of combos, like Peach's D.air, but it needs be tested for all multihit moves. Help is needed on this, such as Can DK DI-UpB punish from getting hit by Snake's N.air?




also sexy:
DK can grab release Wario to (turn around) B.air.

When someone is b.aired, if they DI away, it usually leads to more b.airs, if they DI up and away a DJ b.air can pursue and often lead to another. If they DI upwards, you simply immediately followup w/ an upair [to uptilt, at low percent].

This should be his dominant grab-release damage racker, as it can combo into itself and/or upairs from low-mid percents. (unless u have, and dont mind nerfing, you're giant punch for the 28%.
At starting percents, release to SH double b.air can combo into a up/f.tilt or even a grab!!
example: grab, release, b.air-b.air, grab, release, jump upB (~70%!)

u could go for more b.airs too if u want, or release to SH UpAir-UpB at low percent, or full jump UpAir-UpB at mid.

You just added a beautiful DK technique to my arsenal.

ily.

I need to know all the characters this is affective on.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

UpB can intercept alot of combos, like Peach's D.air, but it needs be tested for all multihit moves. Help is needed on this, such as Can DK DI-UpB punish from getting hit by Snake's N.air?

The upb is fastest enough to break out of a lot of things. It comes out on frame 4, and you are invincible on frames 4-6 so yes it can be used to break out. I have used to break out of a few things, like Falco's CG, Sheik's f-tilt spam, Lucario f-air combo, Marth f-air combo. The question is if you can DI out of the move in time, I can test the upb on the moves that are listed in my DI and put up a note there about it.

 

[PolarBear]

I noticed his up b can get him out of the yoshi chaingrab and if on a stage with a platform or by a ledge, or even if you mind game the yoshi with your land (which is hard because of Yoshi's grab reach), it's a good escape. Do other chaingrable characters use their up b to escape?

Also, I'm not completely sure on the invincibility on JJ. When I try and do it I don't get the full invincibility. Can someone help me or show me a video?

 

[Chaosgriffin]

I noticed his up b can get him out of the yoshi chaingrab and if on a stage with a platform or by a ledge, or even if you mind game the yoshi with your land (which is hard because of Yoshi's grab reach), it's a good escape. Do other chaingrable characters use their up b to escape?

Also, I'm not completely sure on the invincibility on JJ. When I try and do it I don't get the full invincibility. Can someone help me or show me a video?

Ok, what i did to first learn what to do is this:

Go to a ledge and get right on top of it, to where you are doing the "about to fall off animation", then do up-b and immediately start to move. Its pretty simple that way, you can practice it and make sure you are doing it right by putting bombs around and if you go flying when you hit them, then you messed up, or you could get a friend to hit you while you up-b.

Whats harder is doing it from a run/walk, it takes practice to get the timing down.

I have a video of when i did it, and i took a G@W's bucket, i will see if i can upload that.

 

[Cyphus]

specifically speaking, that tactic is still underused i think. if you cargo d.throw someone off the stage or any other means of pushing them right off, u can pursue w/ the full invinc. UpB off the stage (u can actually go quite far if timed right...) and lean back to steal the edge(which they cannot edgehog win because you're invincibly throwing out hitboxes), or even drift back over the edge (safely invincible throughout lag) and jab./d.tilt/grab frame-opening mixups.

its more complicated than it seems but if you practice all the different speeds and recoveries, i think you'll find the at least the best thing about it is in the worst case- nothing happens because it is always safe and can put them in very bad positions such as taking out their DJ then stealing the edge. Or missing but returning to the stage, then they hit during you're lag, but you invincibly d.smash punish them.

and thats just going off the stage. you can use it off platforms to float down into crossovers.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

I agree, i dont see it use a lot, nor do i hear it talked about a lot. I use this tactic against spacies, it ***** their forward b, since your invincible. So they have to recover with their up-b which is so easily gimped.

 

[ook]

Just a little thing, donkey punch (shielded) to dsmash is pretty funny. The punch has such little lag that the dmsash gets them when they try to punish you. It's like MKs who do 2 dsmashes in a row

I was doing it at a tourney a TON yesterday and everyone knew I was gonna do it every time, but they still kept getting hit.

I agree, i dont see it use a lot, nor do i hear it talked about a lot. I use this tactic against spacies, it ***** their forward b, since your invincible. So they have to recover with their up-b which is so easily gimped.

I try that, but they always just double jump over it and side-b onto the stage, which I can't punish cause I'm out there doing the up-b

 

[KoSa!]

What if they perfect shield the punch O.o jk who can do that.

 

[¿Qué?]

Just a little thing, donkey punch (shielded) to dsmash is pretty funny. The punch has such little lag that the dmsash gets them when they try to punish you. It's like MKs who do 2 dsmashes in a row

I was doing it at a tourney a TON yesterday and everyone knew I was gonna do it every time, but they still kept getting hit.




I try that, but they always just double jump over it and side-b onto the stage, which I can't punish cause I'm out there doing the up-b

Lul Donkey Punch sounds so wrong.. But that is DEFINATLY something to know.

My DK is getting WAY better and I'm sooo happy. I'll be ****** with DK soon.

 

[DKwill]

I agree, i dont see it use a lot, nor do i hear it talked about a lot. I use this tactic against spacies, it ***** their forward b, since your invincible. So they have to recover with their up-b which is so easily gimped.

I was experimenting with it a lot during my money match vs this PA Falco at Apex 2 =P

Will (DK) vs M@v (Falco) 2

I have the rest of this set, plus my money match set vs Jerm that I am putting up in the video thread right now =)

 

[¿Qué?]

I was experimenting with it a lot during my money match vs this PA Falco at Apex 2 =P

Will (DK) vs M@v (Falco) 2

I have the rest of this set, plus my money match set vs Jerm that I am putting up in the video thread right now =)

^This guy is OP.

Lul Will!! I wanted to ask you some things about DI for DK. I know that you can DI using the C-Stick, but you can also DI using the directional stick too, right?

I was watching some wivs of you and, it seems like... You just never die. I feel like I REALLY need to add this too my metagame.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

^This guy is OP.

Lul Will!! I wanted to ask you some things about DI for DK. I know that you can DI using the C-Stick, but you can also DI using the directional stick too, right?

I was watching some wivs of you and, it seems like... You just never die. I feel like I REALLY need to add this too my metagame.

You should look at my DI thread then, and yes you can use both sticks to DI, usually it works faster if you use both sticks

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=261369

 

[¿Qué?]

You should look at my DI thread then, and yes you can use both sticks to DI, usually it works faster if you use both sticks

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=261369

OMG SRY! I didn't see itt.

I'ma go too it right nao. I need too learn that kind of DI.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

so DMG showed me how wario can combo a dash grab out of a bite at around 10-30%

wario is now **** near as bad as ddd, if a little easier just because of grab release -> punch.

Also I've been using dk again, hopefully I'll have vids up soon

 

[Ripple]

so DMG showed me how wario can combo a dash grab out of a bite at around 10-30%

wario is now **** near as bad as ddd, if a little easier just because of grab release -> punch.

Also I've been using dk again, hopefully I'll have vids up soon

Hasn't this been know for some time now? we know wario is a bad match up, but will says its even. I doubt that but its no where near as bad as D3.

60/40

 

[Max113]

Hey guys, quick question. Do you guys have any sort of DK guide here? A friend and I are interested in learning this silly monkey. ;]

 

[KoSa!]

Hey guys, quick question. Do you guys have any sort of DK guide here? A friend and I are interested in learning this silly monkey. ;]

Here:http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190869
Also good:http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141591

 

[daisho]

Sorry I havent't updated this thread in a year...

 

[Scabe]

Oh wow hey Daisho

Does this mean you'll update the thread?

 

[Cyphus]

i also think dk vs wario is even. just dont let him get in your zone when you're on the ground. run away alot, and challenge him in the air where you're less punishable and beat him in range.
the chaingrab does like 4 or 5% after a couple throws, and i've never seen it take a stock because there is too much room for error- ontop of DK able to pivot punch punish. and being EQUALLY as dangerous with grabs.

 

[Ripple]

- ontop of DK able to pivot punch punish. and being EQUALLY as dangerous with grabs.

pivot punch escape is very difficult. considering you have 10 frames to input dash >B> pivot.

and DK is not equally dangerous with grabs. less so by a large margin. but still dangerous

 

[daisho]

Oh wow hey Daisho

Does this mean you'll update the thread?

I don't think I'm going to go back and update all the old stuff that I missed but I wouldn't mind updating it from now on.

The one issue with that is that there is so much that I missed and just don't remember because I haven't played the game in almost a year.

 

[Cyphus]

pivot punch escape is very difficult. considering you have 10 frames to input dash >B> pivot.

and DK is not equally dangerous with grabs. less so by a large margin. but still dangerous

if u must factor in difficulty..
than i will argue wario's chaingrab is difficult. again, I have Never seen a wario grab DK at low percent and chainthrow to death, and if i did...it would be terribly surprising if it was not escapable due to percent and freshness-dependency on the chainthrow to actually work!

DK guarantee-KOs wario if he grabs him at 90%. (upsmash...no need for giant punch) that is Devastating.
DK also outlives wario - so his chainthrow, additionally, is nerfed relative-wise. and calls for a insane amout of room for error on the players part, the game's physics of freshness/percent, and tripping.

outside the KO, DK's release to b.air combos, aerial UpB percent racking, and basic giant punch all do as much damage as a typical chainthrow attempt from wario.

also. DK grabs wario at 90, he's dead. lol

DK's b.air, used defensively, is great at controlling wario in the air, and baits him to try to get in from over, which pivot grab *****.

my general rule is if i get grabbed, i usually just buffer rolls and it tends to work albeit either human error and the nature of the chainthrow not always guaranteed!