Count
Smash Champion
So, erm, somebody tell me why rob is easy? "you can combo him" I can't approach rob cause I'm always getting hit by 10931093 projectiles. It's the only matchup where sometimes I feel helpless/get frustrated.
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**Diddy Kong [Old] General Match-Ups**
- Thread starter Vyse
- Start date
Kinzer
Mammy
It's true, he gets hard-countered by DTilt.
Finally, somebody else agrees with me that Boku sucks!
God if you go by him to get an idea of Sonic, you're terribly mistaken.
Diddyknight
Smash Lord
reinstated
Khaoz
Smash Journeyman
Kinzer
Mammy
@#$% man, Khaoz is right
(*psst*, hurry up and move on to another character before we take over your matchup guide.)
(*psst*, hurry up and move on to another character before we take over your matchup guide.)
ADHD
Smash Hero
pikachu is 40-60 against diddy we need to put down the facts nao
Kaptain Kong
Smash Lord
the worst thing about him is his spammy projectile
plus multi hit moves like d smash
plus multi hit moves like d smash
Diddyknight
Smash Lord
didnt know it was 40-60....besides the thunder spam. this is more of an aerial game and the first one to land a combo....IMO anyways....
i would say this matchup is 50-50
i would say this matchup is 50-50
DUB
Smash Lord
Pickachus tripping animation is long.
ADHD
Smash Hero
DUB
Smash Lord
Continuing the chain of pika-****, You should never be killed by a Down-Smash. Smash DI up to get out. Pikachus tend to Down Smash OoS alot.
This week's discussion is Wario.
This matchup feels really 2 sided to me.
Can someone drop a thread in the wario forums directing them here?
Thank ye.
This matchup feels really 2 sided to me.
Can someone drop a thread in the wario forums directing them here?
Thank ye.
GDX
Smash Hero
actually, i dont know much about the wario matchup either. So id like to see what the peoples say about it.
as of now, i assume you fight a wario like you would a peach, but being more wary that wario can actually kill you
as of now, i assume you fight a wario like you would a peach, but being more wary that wario can actually kill you
Diddyknight
Smash Lord
for this matchup, i tend to rarely use the banana since he can just eat them but the lag is open. Take the bait. Preferably, dont rely on Bananas on this matchup.....
Count
Smash Champion
You can still punish the lag from him eating a nana, if he is just standing there opening his mouth glide toss two bananas at him. I am excited to hear what the wario mains have to say on this matchup.
Xionix
Smash Journeyman
yeah, throw banana's into his bite and punish him, and try to spike him when he jumps off his bike.
Luur3
Smash Journeyman
I dropped a thread in the Wario boards, oughta get opinions from the other side now.
Do nanners work while he's on the bike?
Do nanners work while he's on the bike?
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
I use naners all the time in this match-up, despite Wario's jumping in the air. If he tries d-air or if I even sense it, I just jump and f-air Wario before he gets the chance to come right above me.
ADHD
Smash Hero
I've faced a wario alot and he is always at the tourneys i go to. Its basically just a matchup that you need to play more to get better at it, luckily wario's trip is short and it really sucks. You can grab him over the edge and get a free spike in as well. Just avoid the bike, shield it if you see it coming because it does go over bananas. As for dair/nair, you can utilt it to stop it but you will trade hits. Um.... other than that, there isn't much to say, just save your KO moves because wario never dies... Camp ALOT to keep him somewhat more grounded with peanuts. Simply do diddy stuff and ya win. 40-60 for us sadly. And yes, use alot of bananas. You can't afford to let wario get in control, it's so hard to gain it back.
NinjaLink
Smash Master
u can just fair or grab him off the bike....
stnapknah
Smash Journeyman
DMG has it 50-50 to 60-40 for us. Basically, a good Wario spaces himself away from the bananas and then uses his ridiculously good DI to get close to diddy and not get hit by Diddy's aerials. Once he's in, like ChromePirate said, the match gets out of hand. Wario also has some great killing moves and you'll find that the f-smash kills even when deteriorated. Plus Wario can bite many of Diddy's approaches to reset the playing field before you start to own him. He can also DI from across the stage and eat a banana you pull out so you're usually better off pulling it out on the side away from him. He can also bike/tire you while you're recovering although that rarely happens. Overall, I'd say 55-45 or 60-40 in Wario's favor since once he's in control, it's harder for Diddy to shift the momentum back to him than it is for Wario to do when Diddy's in control. Also, if the Wario does a wheelie then you can't grab him off the bike. If he wheelies enough, you'll eat some bike parts with your fair... although I'm not sure about this because i don't know fairs hitbox.
Yeah... bike should be a nonfactor... hell, even Diddy's dash attack reaches high enough to hit us out of it. This is really a battle for momentum. The one who can get it, and keep it the longest wins. Wario will be in Diddy's face constantly, to avoid banana's becoming a huge issue. Wario's glide toss is pretty terrible, but he's highly adept at picking up naners. Offstage, Wario can gimp or rack up damage on Diddy way easily... though on the flipside he also has to be very smart about recovering or he gets spiked. Diddy should have a very hard time killing Wario til the late 100s, while Wario can get the kills with standard kill moves usually in the early hundreds. Bite is great against you guys physically, but as has been said, can be punished if we eat a banana. Your best tools against Wario (aside from the very obvious bananas) are your Fair and Utilt. Fair will beat almost everything we can do if you space it right, and utilt, as has been said, will also clash with us (it can juggle us a bit at low percents too). Backair is good too, b/c it's quick, but it's easier for us to space away from it b/c of it's shorter range.
I'd go so far as to say that this matchup is 50:50 on FD, but anywhere with platforms that Wario can abuse will go in his favor (so pretty much everywhere except FD and Luigi's Mansion Wario has advantage). People bring up the grab release to spike at the edge... but what Wario gets grabbed at the edge? :\ Peanuts are a nuisance sometimes, but we can fair through those w/o taking any damage, and the move ends pretty quick... can still help bait us into bad positions though (don't know if it can gimp off the bike). As has been said, it's way easier for us to stay perpetually in your face and abuse our grab range and bite and quick aerials to not give you the breathing room for bananas than it is to reverse the situation.
For the record, you can't grab a wheelying Wario, but just shield or fair, or try to punish the jump off the bike. Also, most people that play Diddy like their double naners, and pull out two at a time. I tend to just eat one, so that there's only one on-stage at a given time. Wario's quick aerials make that way easier to deal with w/o having to worry about being punished w/ the other one. I also don't recommend you try your walljump banana pulling tricks too often, b/c Wario will chase out there after you if he expects it.
Oh, and something else that isn't known, and, in my opinion, is pretty huge. Wario's Fsmash super armor prevents him from tripping. Meaning that a predicted forward glide toss = death to you.
60:40 for Wario. Doubt it's higher, just b/c Diddy is such a good character.
I'd go so far as to say that this matchup is 50:50 on FD, but anywhere with platforms that Wario can abuse will go in his favor (so pretty much everywhere except FD and Luigi's Mansion Wario has advantage). People bring up the grab release to spike at the edge... but what Wario gets grabbed at the edge? :\ Peanuts are a nuisance sometimes, but we can fair through those w/o taking any damage, and the move ends pretty quick... can still help bait us into bad positions though (don't know if it can gimp off the bike). As has been said, it's way easier for us to stay perpetually in your face and abuse our grab range and bite and quick aerials to not give you the breathing room for bananas than it is to reverse the situation.
For the record, you can't grab a wheelying Wario, but just shield or fair, or try to punish the jump off the bike. Also, most people that play Diddy like their double naners, and pull out two at a time. I tend to just eat one, so that there's only one on-stage at a given time. Wario's quick aerials make that way easier to deal with w/o having to worry about being punished w/ the other one. I also don't recommend you try your walljump banana pulling tricks too often, b/c Wario will chase out there after you if he expects it.
Oh, and something else that isn't known, and, in my opinion, is pretty huge. Wario's Fsmash super armor prevents him from tripping. Meaning that a predicted forward glide toss = death to you.
60:40 for Wario. Doubt it's higher, just b/c Diddy is such a good character.
ADHD
Smash Hero
Not if you have a banana in your hand, I ALWAYS have a banana in my hand against wario so i can just camp the **** out of him its just how i fight them.
Diddyknight
Smash Lord
seems like from reading this, two ways to fight wario, Gay and NonGay. The Gay way from reading is that you must camp the **** out of him. The other is to go all aggressive and to keep up the momentum
ADHD
Smash Hero
Going aggressive doesn't work, wario has too good of a retreating offensive game and will just stop you in your tracks. I mean, you can go aggressive for spurts at a time but it just ends if you do that for too long
Don't forget grab to dair at the edge! naner lock to grab at the edge
Diddyknight
Smash Lord
Also his Dair game is offensive and it has so many frames that he can just dair While retreating xD Aggressive way May work but there may be times to think things over. His Neutral Air has a decent priority but if you throw a banana at him during those frames...it helps =3
uptilt > Dair X3
never knew about the grab (release?) to Dair
uptilt > Dair X3
never knew about the grab (release?) to Dair
ADHD
Smash Hero
Wario's are better for retreating, diddy's are better for poking out attacks once in a while. Diddy can compete with wario's but his are better in the matchup.
Player-1
Smash Legend
Lol...it's no way that it's 60-40 in Diddy's favor. Wario can camp you and stay in the air. Peanuts don't help as much because Wario's DI is,too good. There is barely any lag inbetween bites, at most distances you can't grab a banana and throw it into his bite then pick up a banana and do it again, he'll already have his bite out. The bite isn't really a factor though because you can space it with Fsmashes, you can side-b it, peanut > banana works well. You can GR to a spike him offstage. I won a tournament purely because of this, GF I'm at 110%, I just took him to his last stock, I banana lcoked him across the stage immeditely and GR to dair. He could have recovered, but i think it took him by surprise. Wario has a fart that can make up for that, hard to land, but good Wario's can hit it often.
I personally side-b a lot, espcially when he's about to land because I know the Fsmash or something like this will be coming. 50/50 at best. I'll have bideos of me and a Wario up soon.
I personally side-b a lot, espcially when he's about to land because I know the Fsmash or something like this will be coming. 50/50 at best. I'll have bideos of me and a Wario up soon.
It is not 60-40 for Diddy. Lemme address a few things:
1. Grab Release to Spike does not work, SDI and teching fixes that. If we miss the edge, we can DJ to meteor cancel (at fairly reasonable %'s), Bike, Jump off and Upb.
2. There is enough Lag from eating a banana that if you glide toss it forwards that you can run and grab him. If you are even closer you can Smash him while he eats it.
3. Campy Diddy is more annoying that an Aggressive Diddy, but he does damage a lot slower. That and you can force him to start going aggressive once you get a lead and camp him back.
I will brb in a few hours or so with a more in depth discussion. It's not 60/40 for Diddy though, not even on his best stages.
1. Grab Release to Spike does not work, SDI and teching fixes that. If we miss the edge, we can DJ to meteor cancel (at fairly reasonable %'s), Bike, Jump off and Upb.
2. There is enough Lag from eating a banana that if you glide toss it forwards that you can run and grab him. If you are even closer you can Smash him while he eats it.
3. Campy Diddy is more annoying that an Aggressive Diddy, but he does damage a lot slower. That and you can force him to start going aggressive once you get a lead and camp him back.
I will brb in a few hours or so with a more in depth discussion. It's not 60/40 for Diddy though, not even on his best stages.
Yeah, banana lock is the only way to set up for a spike offstage... depending on their percent they can meteor cancel it though. A Wario has to be a little dumb to get banana locked, though XD
And P-1... don't say bite isn't a factor... it's always a factor... there's just ways to punish it should they mess it up or you predict it XD
And P-1... don't say bite isn't a factor... it's always a factor... there's just ways to punish it should they mess it up or you predict it XD
Player-1
Smash Legend
GR to a spike does work...even with SDI at most living percentages, maybe at 999% you can dodge it.
I said at MOST distances you can't do that, when you're right infront of him you can do it, but not 2 feet inbetween.
3. Wario has insane DI, you can easily dodge slow peanuts
ADHD
Smash Hero
60-40 in wario's favor dumb dumb. and no phantomx, naner locking is a common thing and it happens to good players occasionally too. peanuts are very good against wario, if he wants to DI around them all day then he should have fun with that. P1 id be a little scared to side b approach him like that because he can hit you out of it and punish you easily for it... it's pretty scary. That's why i camp them, I seiously don't want to get hit.
Player-1
Smash Legend
Not the kick, use only the grab. You just have to space correctly so that you land just out of range of his Fsmash. it's 50:50 or 55-45 in diddy's favor.
fighting a few matches with afro's wario my conclusion would have to be 55 45 wario
reasons?
-wario spaces really well
-incredible di
-good horizontal recovery/ good vertical(both fart and upb)
-banana play gets interrupted through incredible air versatility of wario
-invincibility and priority moves
-very unpredictible
-diddy has control on ground so make every moment wario isnt in the air count
-mindgames>character
-wario cant be easily grabbed
-wario has awesome grabs
-nanner lock is possible when glide tossing correctly and predicting the movement/roll of your wario opponent
to me diddy has advantage for the soul purpose of mindgames cuz in all sense. wario not having projectiles forces him to approach, makes possible for diddy to spam projectiles and confuse opponent with the thrown direction of the bananas. etc etc but then again theirs the whole IM WARIO AND MY FOOT GOES IN UR FACE AS I GO BACK TO SAFETY AHAHA
55-45 wario
reasons?
-wario spaces really well
-incredible di
-good horizontal recovery/ good vertical(both fart and upb)
-banana play gets interrupted through incredible air versatility of wario
-invincibility and priority moves
-very unpredictible
-diddy has control on ground so make every moment wario isnt in the air count
-mindgames>character
-wario cant be easily grabbed
-wario has awesome grabs
-nanner lock is possible when glide tossing correctly and predicting the movement/roll of your wario opponent
to me diddy has advantage for the soul purpose of mindgames cuz in all sense. wario not having projectiles forces him to approach, makes possible for diddy to spam projectiles and confuse opponent with the thrown direction of the bananas. etc etc but then again theirs the whole IM WARIO AND MY FOOT GOES IN UR FACE AS I GO BACK TO SAFETY AHAHA
55-45 wario
Diddyknight
Smash Lord
55-45 Warios favor for me
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
60:40 Wario, you have such a hard time killing him if you don't spike him, and don't expect to naner lock him anytime soon, he'll be in the air almost the entire match, and don't expect to grab him, you wont grab a good Wario. Else everything else has been said 
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ADHD
Smash Hero
60-40 to 55-45 in wario's favor.
Yeah that sounds about right for the majority of stages.
Last tournament I played at, I played against my state's best Wario in the finals. I only beat him by managing to outplay him and making as few mistakes as possible. You can say what you want about projectiles, but, given the way Wario can be played, I don't believe Diddy has any advantage.
Although, I think it's pretty close, I'd give Wario the 55:45 advantage. Both characters run very even with each other and I'd wager that the player that knows the matchup better and brings the most experience to the table will be the winner.
When I face good wario's, I have to camp soooooo hard it's not funny.
Although, I think it's pretty close, I'd give Wario the 55:45 advantage. Both characters run very even with each other and I'd wager that the player that knows the matchup better and brings the most experience to the table will be the winner.
When I face good wario's, I have to camp soooooo hard it's not funny.