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[Rockin]

Agreed.

Rockin should claim vig (if he gets the vig role) at the beginning of every game so we can lynch him direct his shots

10sadfaces

 

[SwordsRbroken]

don't sweat it rockin, nick is just sore at you for killing him.

 

[Rockin]

don't sweat it rockin, nick is just sore at you for killing him.

this is coming from the same person I Daykilled in Spidermafia >____>;;

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Lol, I was like 0_0. I caught up through 60 pages of long posts to get killed a few posts later?

 

[Rockin]

Lol, I was like 0_0. I caught up through 60 pages of long posts to get killed a few posts later?

the last thing anyone should do to me is restrict a trigger happy person such as myself.

LOL

 

[vanderzant]

Good post Xiivi. I never really thought of it like that.

 

[Xiivi]

Ryker's mom took his laptop to DC with her & his net access is severely limited until tomorrow.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Oh, that explains why he hasn't confirmed yet in DBZ mafia. xD

 

[Omis]

Ya my mafia game was pretty much a gigantic dump of fail.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

K, so I'm the worst person to be given a vigilante role to.

discuss.

Well you also got neighborized with Chibi, who was scum and able to regulate your actions.

The more you play in that role, the better you'll get at it.

 

[M.K]

On that same accord, what is the best way to PLAY a Neighborizer? I mean, I tried to keep myself out of my own discussions just because....well, I didn't want to add on to my own responsibilities, so I delegated the role out and started chaining together individiuals who could chat.

 

[Deleted member]

Well the problem with a role like that is that you don't know someone's alignment. so only if you used it to set up a sure-to-catch-scum tactic behind the scenes with it, I can't see direct benefit over that extra communication.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Officially back

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm back and I confirm that Gheb got ***** <3

 

[SwordsRbroken]

..................

 

[~ Gheb ~]

7th: Gheb + Zulu
9th: Xonar + Chair

 

[#HBC | Mac]

DAYUMM XONAR

get wrecked

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Gheb, you didn't even make it out of pools in singles : D
Doubles I got zulu'd D:

 

[DtJ Jungle]

what atourney are you loleuropeans talking about

 

[Clownbot]

Question:

Why is it that (from my experience, at least) whenever a person is modkilled the Day continues if they are scum and ends if they are town?

I've wondered that for awhile.

 

[Mayling]

Question:

Why is it that (from my experience, at least) whenever a person is modkilled the Day continues if they are scum and ends if they are town?

I've wondered that for awhile.

The modkill hurts the fraction that caused it.

 

[Clownbot]

I realize that, it just always seemed sort of weird to me. Since the opposing faction of the person who was modkilled is given the upper hand from the modkill I figured it would be the other way around to give the other faction a chance to make up for it.

Is it sort of like a punishment for the faction whose member was killed, then?

 

[Deleted member]

@Clownbot: I'm not sure about this either, but if I had to guess, it could be because Mafia has the ability to do night kills. Mafia night kills only benefits towns so why not use the oppertunity to catch another scum as well? In some cases (Like a nine player set-up), it can bring up the possibly of a town win without the death of a townie.

 

[Rockin]

Question:

Why is it that (from my experience, at least) whenever a person is modkilled the Day continues if they are scum and ends if they are town?

I've wondered that for awhile.

Well ask yourself this: do you feel it's fair to have 3-4 townies dead? (one by modkill, one by lynch, and one by nk)

it's to keep everything fair. Mafia has to survive, and the day won't be much of a gamebreaker if mafia were to get modkilled, where as a townie being modkilled and game resumes does (as it'll give mafia an unfair advantage).

 

[Ronike]

I always thought of it as a punishment.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I always felt that modkilling someone was punishment enough for that faction. I feel like ending the day can cause far too much damage to the town if the day is forcibly ended because of an in activity modkill because of the failure of one person.

If the modkill was a result of some in game mechanic or something, then I could see there being a good reason to end the day, but just as a general rule, I feel that if someone is modkilled the game should continue as is.

When someone dies, regardless of the faction, it hurts that faction. No sense in making it a double whammy.

 

[Deleted member]

@frozenflame751: Then if modkills always hurt town, why don't we erase it altogether? I mean, mods can temporarily withdraw deadline until a replacement is found or someone gets lynched.

But yeah, probably not a good idea.

 

[Rockin]

I always thought of it as a punishment.

It's a punishment too (Mainly, I think), but I also saw it as a way to keep everything fair.

SSBF - extending the deadline is never helpful in a townie sense, and replacing someone late in the game is usually a problem as

1) not many players may not be interested replacing in D3

2) it may take awhile for that said person to respond and whatnot

sometimes a modkill is the best course of action to do.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

lol yall mad late with this modkill business

pretty much what mayling said, and basically just the fact that if it was any other way modkills could be abused for profit by any faction. Which had to happen in a game in the broom for people to actually believe me when I was saying this b4.

and **** xonar talked **** and then got schooled. pretty funny

edit:

If the modkill was a result of some in game mechanic or something, then I could see there being a good reason to end the day, but just as a general rule, I feel that if someone is modkilled the game should continue as is.

No.

You might as well give town a bunch of selfvigs.

 

[Deleted member]

@Rockin: You do have a point there, but deadline extension can be helpful to townies. It gives town more oppertunity to gather information and find scum. Not to mention it reduces the chance of an No Lynch.

 

[Handorin]

@Rockin: You do have a point there, but deadline extension can be helpful to townies. It gives town more oppertunity to gather information and find scum. Not to mention it reduces the chance of an No Lynch.

Quit being afraid to lynch before deadline. If you think someone is scum, don't be afraid to L-2/L-1/hammer them as long as you have good reasoning. Lynch before deadline, discussion is a distraction that allows scum to persuade/appeal to townies into the wrong direction. When you are comfortable with a lynch, get on it then.

More discussion until the very end of a deadline is not this awesome pro-town thing. Waiting until near-deadline to lynch gives scum the greatest influence as they are able to coordinate to swing the lynch into the direction they please due to time constraints on the town. I would consider waiting until deadline to make an informed discussion a scummy move. SWF has a problem with this mindset and should fix it because seeing deadline-no-lynches is really unacceptable. Pull your act together and realize the "it's you vs everyone" mindset is awful and that you have to figure out who your fellow townies are and must come to an agreement with them if you want to lynch correctly.

Quoting this again for you guys. <_<

 

[Xiivi]

What modkilling does:
Creates a flip, and thus extra information that would not exist under normal circumstances.

Why the day continues when anti-town is modkilled & ends when town is modkilled:
The 'lynch' is town's standard method of generating information.
The 'night kill' is anti-town's standard method of generating information.
The standard order is 'lynch', 'night kill', 'lynch', 'night kill', etc... until a faction has won.

1) When anti-town is modkilled, anti-town has generated information in a non-standard method. If the day ended, it would bypass the town's standard method of generating information (the lynch) and lead to the scum's standard method of generating information immediately (the night kill). Due to this, the day continues when anti-town is modkilled.

2) When town is modkilled, town has generated information in a non-standard method. If the day continued, it would bypass scum's standard method of generating information (the night kill) and lead to the town's standard method of generating information immediate (the lynch). Due to this, the day ends when town is modkilled.

 

[Ronike]

My first mafia game had month long nights, several month long days, and literally lasted a year. This wasn't uncommon at the time. Guess what they were missing?

The system we have now is there for a reason.

 

[vanderzant]

2) When town is modkilled, town has generated information in a non-standard method.

If a town player was inactive enough to be modkilled, it's likely that they didn't contribute much information themselves and in turn, no one would be able to draw any information from their flip (apart from that they were town.)

I agree that bypassing anti-town's night phase (in the event of a town modkill) would be unfair to anti-town, but I can't see how a town modkill is beneficial to town.

 

[Omis]

lol who are you?

 

[Ronike]

It allows town to essentially have control over two lynches. Granted, one of the options is limited to a certain player, but if town modkills did not end the day, they can be abused to have two deaths.

 

[Xiivi]

vanderzant is currently in newbie mafia 6 omis

;D

People should read Newbie Mafia 6.

EDIT:

Also vand, a flip gives a lot of information even if the player didn't post much.

If the person is vanilla, it helps scum narrow down power roles, and if the person is a power role, it could limit the fake-claims mafia has available. There's a lot of information to be found from a flip.

 

[vanderzant]

lol who are you?

Yeah I don't believe we've met.

Also vand, a flip gives a lot of information even if the player didn't post much.

If the person is vanilla, it helps scum narrow down power roles, and if the person is a power role, it could limit the fake-claims mafia has available. There's a lot of information to be found from a flip.

Yeah it gives information, but it doesn't necessarily HELP town. But I guess you're right.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

No.

You might as well give town a bunch of selfvigs.

You argument seriously is based on the potential for abuse of Modkilling? Seriously? When has that ever happened even before we added these stipulations? We aren't playing like, competitive mafia here. I don't think we should be using a potential for abuse of modkillable offenses as a standard for how we should treat the typically rare case of a modkill.

What modkilling does:
Creates a flip, and thus extra information that would not exist under normal circumstances.

Why the day continues when anti-town is modkilled & ends when town is modkilled:
The 'lynch' is town's standard method of generating information.
The 'night kill' is anti-town's standard method of generating information.
The standard order is 'lynch', 'night kill', 'lynch', 'night kill', etc... until a faction has won.

1) When anti-town is modkilled, anti-town has generated information in a non-standard method. If the day ended, it would bypass the town's standard method of generating information (the lynch) and lead to the scum's standard method of generating information immediately (the night kill). Due to this, the day continues when anti-town is modkilled.

2) When town is modkilled, town has generated information in a non-standard method. If the day continued, it would bypass scum's standard method of generating information (the night kill) and lead to the town's standard method of generating information immediate (the lynch). Due to this, the day ends when town is modkilled.

This logic is so assbackwards I can't even get my head around it.

How is an anti-town getting modkilled a way of generating information for the anti town faction? That makes absolutely no sense. How does a mafia member getting modkilled generate any information for the mafia at all?

When a town player gets modkilled the town does get some information, however that is rarely information that is particularly relevant to the town's interest and direction of play. The whole point of the lynch is to be able to learn information about the player on the chopping block and thus deduce information about those involved in the process. Someone getting modkilled does NOT in any way play an equivalent information generating role compared to the actual lynch.

Modkilling is not a standard occurance in mafia as it is. Since it results as a result of the personal failings of a single player, his or her faction should not be penalized for that. As such, as a GENERAL rule modkilling should leave the game as is. Obviously there will be circumstances and game designs that may require a modification to this but generally speaking it makes no sense to force a day end because of a town modkill, or any modkill for that matter.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

You argument seriously is based on the potential for abuse of Modkilling? Seriously? When has that ever happened even before we added these stipulations? We aren't playing like, competitive mafia here. I don't think we should be using a potential for abuse of modkillable offenses as a standard for how we should treat the typically rare case of a modkill.

This has happened in a game in the broom I was in.

Say you are in a scenario with 4 people left. 1 mafia. There are 2 clears. Town can force on of the non-clears to post their role and get modkilled and then lynch the other. Instead of the standard, choosing one of the 2 to lynch.

It allows town to essentially have control over two lynches. Granted, one of the options is limited to a certain player, but if town modkills did not end the day, they can be abused to have two deaths.

Even more then twice. if modkills don't end the day, you could potentially have as any modkills as you wanted.



This can happen and has happened, and it's better to just nip it in the bud before becomes problematic. Also, it 'never' happening isn't at all a valid argument.

Another method of dealing with this is automatically making a modkilled player lose no matter what the outcome, but how many times do you see people lose interest in the game or stop caring, or get pissed and purposely get themselves killed. Even though they have lost the game, it still benefits town unfairly, especially if they were a lurker getting inactivity modkilled. Like in Monster Mafia, all the modkills actually helped town.

Having town's modkill end the day is necessary just for balance issues. Though it does punish town for having a weak link, but mafia is a team game anyways. And you know you have to rely on others from the get-go so it shouldn't be too cumbersome to accept this fact

Also I agree that part of ZV's reasoning was kind of, well i dunno, wrong.