1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 225,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

  3. Get the Smash Controller on sale this holiday for $26.99 on Amazon! Get the Smash GameCube Controller now!

  4. Use the Smashboards Store to get awesome Smash stuff and support the site, like a Nintendo Controller or the Wii U - Gamecube adaptor ! Check out the inventory in our store and support Smashboards with your purchase today!

Detailed Throws, Techs, and Getups Frame Data

Discussion in 'Melee Discussion' started by Magus420, Nov 21, 2008.

  1. Magus420

    Magus420
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Messages:
    4,541
    Location:
    Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
    For Techs and Getups data click: HERE



    Throws Frame Data

    This is a list of data for throws and how their speeds are affected by weight. If unaffected, the throw animations on all characters will be the same. With the throws that are affected, heavier characters will make the animation play through slower while lighter chars will be faster. The more it is slowed down, the greater the total time between when they are released and when the throw ends becomes and will be harder to follow up, and the opposite is true for when it's sped up.

    The format of the index is:

    {Throw}: {Affected by weight?}
    {Released Frame}, {1st Actionable Frame} [{1stAF - Released}] ({Hitbox/es on throw animation if any}; {Other notable info})


    The release/total times include hitlag affecting the thrower, so if the animation were to release on 30 but has 3 additional freeze frames during it it'd be listed as 33.


    For the actual amount it is changed, it's based on their weight multipliers which are the following:

    Weight Multiplier List (NTSC)

    1.17 - Bowser
    1.14 - Donkey Kong
    1.10 - Samus
    1.09 - Ganondorf
    1.08 - Yoshi
    1.04 - Captain Falcon / Link
    1.00 - Dr Mario / Luigi / Mario
    0.94 - Ness
    0.90 - Peach / Sheik / Zelda
    0.88 - Ice Climbers
    0.87 - Marth
    0.85 - Mewtwo / Roy / Young Link
    0.80 - Falco / Pikachu
    0.75 - Fox
    0.70 - Kirby
    0.60 - Jigglypuff / Mr Game & Watch
    0.55 - Pichu

    I'm not positive about the multipliers for PAL, but I'm guessing that this change list that I found...

    Kirby + 4
    Yoshi + 3
    Bowser + 1
    Marth - 1
    Fox - 2
    Mario - 2


    Would make it:

    Weight Multiplier List (PAL)
    1.18 - Bowser
    1.14 - Donkey Kong
    1.11 - Yoshi
    1.10 - Samus
    1.09 - Ganondorf
    1.04 - Captain Falcon / Link
    1.00 - Dr Mario / Luigi
    0.98 - Mario
    0.94 - Ness
    0.90 - Peach / Sheik / Zelda
    0.88 - Ice Climbers
    0.86 - Marth
    0.85 - Mewtwo / Roy / Young Link
    0.80 - Falco / Pikachu
    0.74 - Kirby
    0.73 - Fox
    0.60 - Jigglypuff / Mr Game & Watch
    0.55 - Pichu



    To find the times for throws that are affected by weight, simply multiply the number listed by the character's weight and round up to the next whole frame.

    So for Bowser's F-Throw which is normally...

    35, 60 [25]

    ...used on Fox it'd be:

    26.25 -> 27, 45.00 -> 45 [45-27 = 18]
    =
    27, 45 [18]


    Notice how while you could use 25 x 0.75 to get a quick estimate for the difference, it won't always be accurate. In this case it'd give you 18.75 -> 19, which is 1 frame off.



    Other Stuff to Note About Throws

    All throws have:
    Invincibility: 1-8


    DI on throws is read ON the frame immediately before release, so if it releases on frame 8 you would need to be holding it before frame 7 to then be read on frame 7. Also, releases that are faster than around 10-12 or so (including the weight speed change if applicable) will be very difficult to impossible to DI a certain way in time if you throw immediately and they weren't expecting to be grabbed.

    Unlike attacks, throw launch power is unaffected by weight, and with it the stun time as well. So for throws with animations that are unaffected by weight, you would have the same amount of time to follow up
    on Bowser as you would against Pichu when the percents are the same.

    Also, since the launch speeds on 2 given characters will always be the same at the same percents, a character that falls faster like Pichu can survive something like Peach's F-Throw until higher percents than Samus would.

    Speaking of stun time, I figured out the formula for it:

    Hitstun = Launch Speed/1.475

    (and again, rounded up to the next whole frame)

    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Bowser :bowser2:
    D-Throw: YES (NTSC); NO (PAL)
    62, 91 [29]
    (Hitbox on Head and Chest 47-53; 47-53 hitlag; due to their weight, frame 47 is skipped entirely against Jiggs and G&W in NTSC, and thus does no damage and has no hitbox when used on them)

    U-Throw: NO
    68, 86 [18] (Continuous hitboxes on Back at 20, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, 44, 48 of the animation with 2 added freeze frames on each hit; in real time the hitboxes are out from 20-67)

    F-Throw: YES
    35, 60 [25]

    B-Throw: YES
    18, 40 [22]

    Klaw: NO
    N/A, 2 [N/A]

    [K]F-Throw: NO
    24, 44 [20] (Hitbox on Opponent 18-22; 18-23 hitlag; A/S/DI-able; opponent doesn't become a hitbox upon release)

    [K]B-Throw: NO
    14, 41 [27]


    Captain Falcon :falcon:
    D-Throw: YES
    20, 40 [20]

    U-Throw: NO
    18, 47 [29] (Hitbox on L-Arm 11-31; 11-14 hitlag)

    F-Throw: NO
    21, 43 [22] (Hitbox on L-Arm 11-20; 11-14 hitlag)

    B-Throw: NO
    23, 53 [30] (Hitbox on R-Leg 12-22; 12-15 hitlag)


    Doctor Mario :drmario:
    D-Throw: YES
    18, 40 [22]

    U-Throw: YES
    18, 40 [22]

    F-Throw: YES
    12, 28 [16]

    B-Throw: YES
    44, 67 [23] (Hitbox on Opponent 1-43)


    Donkey Kong :dk2:
    D-Throw: YES
    40, 60 [20]

    U-Throw: YES
    13, 44 [31]

    B-Throw: YES
    14, 40 [26]

    F-Throw: YES
    N/A, 20 [N/A]

    [C]D-Throw: NO
    15, 40 [25]

    [C]U-Throw: NO
    14, 30 [16]

    [C]F-Throw: NO
    15, 40 [25]

    [C]B-Throw: NO
    15, 40 [25]


    Falco :falco:
    D-Throw: YES
    45, 56 [11] (Lasers on 23, 25, 28, 31; 3 added freeze frames on each when the lasers connect, except for Fox only the first 3 lasers add freeze frames for Falco; Fox can A/S/DI the last laser hit with 4 frames of hitlag; hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent)

    U-Throw: YES
    7, 39 [32] (Lasers on 18, 20, 24; Lasers are A/S/DI-able with 4 frames of hitlag; hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent; opponent no longer a hitbox after release if hit by lasers)

    F-Throw: YES
    14, 37 [23] (Hitbox on L-Arm 10-13; 10-13 hitlag)

    B-Throw: YES
    9, 39 [30] (Lasers on 15, 18, 21; Lasers are A/S/DI-able with 4 frames of hitlag; hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent; opponent no longer a hitbox after release if hit by lasers)


    Fox :fox:
    D-Throw: NO
    33, 44 [11] (Lasers on 23, 25, 28, 31; hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent)

    U-Throw: YES
    8, 39 [31] (Lasers on 18, 20, 24; hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent)

    F-Throw: NO
    14, 37 [23] (Hitbox on L-Arm 10-13; 10-13 hitlag)

    B-Throw: YES
    9, 39 [30] (Lasers on 15, 18, 21; hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent)


    Game & Watch :gw:
    D-Throw: YES
    55, 70 [15]

    U-Throw: YES
    55, 70 [15]

    F-Throw: YES
    55, 70 [15]

    B-Throw: YES
    55, 70 [15] (Hitbox on Opponent 1-54)


    Ganondorf :ganondorf:
    D-Throw: YES
    20, 40 [20]

    U-Throw: NO
    18, 47 [29] (Hitbox on L-Arm 11-31; 11-14 hitlag)

    F-Throw: NO
    21, 43 [22] (Hitbox on L-Arm 11-20; 11-14 hitlag)

    B-Throw: NO
    23, 53 [30] (Hitbox on R-Leg 12-22; 12-15 hitlag)


    Ice Climbers :popo:
    D-Throw: YES
    36, 50 [14]

    U-Throw: NO
    35, 64 [29] (Hitbox on Hammer 25-34; 25-29 hitlag)

    F-Throw: NO
    32, 54 [22] (Hitbox on Hammer 24-31; 24-28 hitlag)

    B-Throw: YES
    17, 40 [23] (Hitbox on Opponent 1-16)


    Jigglypuff :jigglypuf
    D-Throw: NO
    74, 96 [22] (Hitboxes on Ground 10-14, 25-29, 40-44, 55-59, 70-73)

    U-Throw: YES
    8, 42 [34]

    F-Throw: NO
    15, 40 [25] (Hitbox on entire body 10-14; 10-14 hitlag; A/SDI-able; opponent doesn't become a hitbox upon release)

    B-Throw: YES
    25, 50 [25]


    Kirby :kirby2:
    D-Throw: NO
    59, 90 [31] (Non-damaging hitboxes on Feet 10-11, 14-15, 18-19, 22-23, 26-27, 30-31, 34-35, 38-39, 42-43; damaging hitbox on 56-58; 56-58 hitlag)

    U-Throw: NO
    51, 80 [29]

    F-Throw: NO
    46, 63 [17] (Can be escaped mid-throw until release frame; stays on frame 33 until you land)

    B-Throw: NO
    29, 50 [21] (Can be escaped mid-throw until release frame; stays on frame 23 until you land)


    Link :link2:
    D-Throw: YES
    30, 52 [22] (Hitbox on L-Shoulder 22-25; 22-24 hitlag)

    U-Throw: NO
    30, 53 [23] (Hitbox on Sword 26-29; 26-29 hitlag)

    F-Throw: NO
    19, 43 [24] (Hitbox on R-Leg 12-18; 12-15 hitlag)

    B-Throw: NO
    19, 43 [24] (Hitbox on L-Leg 11-18; 11-14 hitlag)


    Luigi :luigi2:
    D-Throw: YES
    18, 40 [22]

    U-Throw: YES
    18, 40 [22]

    F-Throw: YES
    12, 28 [16]

    B-Throw: YES
    44, 67 [23] (Hitbox on Opponent 1-43)


    Mario:mario2:
    D-Throw: YES
    18, 40 [22]

    U-Throw: YES
    18, 40 [22]

    F-Throw: YES
    12, 28 [16]

    B-Throw: YES
    44, 67 [23] (Hitbox on Opponent 1-43)


    Marth:marth:
    D-Throw: YES
    14, 43 [29]

    U-Throw: YES
    12, 45 [33]

    F-Throw: YES
    14, 32 [18]

    B-Throw: YES
    7, 45 [38]


    Mewtwo:mewtwo:
    D-Throw: NO
    28, 53 [25] (Hitbox on Tail 15-27; 15-18 hitlag)

    U-Throw: YES
    42, 70 [28]

    F-Throw: YES
    18, 75 [57] (Shadowballs on 32, 39, 46, 53, 60; SBs are A/S/DI-able with 3 frames of hitlag; hitboxes on SBs disappear upon hitting opponent; opponent no longer a hitbox after release if hit by SBs)

    B-Throw: YES
    29, 50 [21] (Hitbox on Opponent 1-28)


    Ness:ness2:
    D-Throw: NO
    40, 60 [20] (Continuous hitboxes on Ground at 10, 14, 18, 22, 26 of the animation with 2 added freeze frames on each hit; in real time the hitboxes are out from 10-39)

    U-Throw: YES
    36, 56 [20]

    F-Throw: YES
    27, 53 [26]

    B-Throw: YES
    27, 53 [26]


    Peach:peach:
    D-Throw: NO
    43, 65 [22]

    U-Throw: NO
    27, 50 [23] (Hitbox on Hands 20-26; 20-22 hitlag)

    F-Throw: NO
    17, 36 [19] (Hitbox on R-Arm 14-16; 14-16 hitlag)

    B-Throw: NO
    23, 52 [29] (Hitbox on Butt 20-22; 20-22 hitlag)


    Pichu:pichu:
    D-Throw: NO
    23, 51 [28] (Hitbox on Ground 12-22; 12-15 hitlag)

    U-Throw: NO
    23, 47 [24] (Hitbox on Head 14-22; 14-17 hitlag)

    F-Throw: NO
    37, 52 [15] (Continuous hitboxes on Back at 10, 14, 18, 22 of the animation with 2 added freeze frames on each hit; in real time the hitboxes are out from 10-33)

    B-Throw: YES
    30, 50 [20]


    Pikachu:pikachu2:
    D-Throw: NO
    23, 51 [28] (Hitbox on Ground 12-22; 12-15 hitlag)

    U-Throw: NO
    23, 47 [24] (Hitbox on Head 14-22; 14-17 hitlag)

    F-Throw: NO
    37, 52 [15] (Continuous hitboxes on Back at 10, 14, 18, 22 of the animation with 2 added freeze frames on each hit; in real time the hitboxes are out from 10-33)

    B-Throw: YES
    30, 50 [20]


    Roy:roymelee:
    D-Throw: YES
    14, 43 [29]

    U-Throw: YES
    12, 45 [33]

    F-Throw: YES
    14, 32 [18]

    B-Throw: YES
    7, 45 [38]


    Samus:samus2:
    D-Throw: YES
    21, 42 [21]

    U-Throw: YES
    31, 42 [11] (Non-damaging hitbox on Tip of arm cannon 13)

    F-Throw: YES
    15, 42 [27]

    B-Throw: YES
    11, 42 [31]


    Sheik:shiek:
    D-Throw: NO
    39, 61 [22] (Hitbox on Ground 31-38; 31-34 hitlag)

    U-Throw: NO
    27, 62 [35] (Hitbox on Feet 19-26; 19-23 hitlag)

    F-Throw: NO
    28, 52 [24] (Hitbox on L-Shoulder 20-27; 20-24 hitlag)

    B-Throw: NO
    23, 51 [28] (Hitbox on R-Leg 15-22; 15-18 hitlag)


    Yoshi:yoshi2:
    D-Throw: YES
    14, 44 [30] (Opponent is invincible until release)

    U-Throw: YES
    12, 44 [32] (Opponent is invincible until release)

    F-Throw: YES
    19, 40 [21] (Opponent is invincible until release)

    B-Throw: YES
    19, 44 [25] (Opponent is invincible until release)


    Young Link :toonlink:
    D-Throw: YES
    30, 52 [22] (Hitbox on L-Shoulder 22-25; 22-24 hitlag)

    U-Throw: NO
    30, 53 [23] (Hitbox on Sword 26-29; 26-29 hitlag)

    F-Throw: NO
    19, 43 [24] (Hitbox on R-Leg 12-18; 12-15 hitlag)

    B-Throw: NO
    19, 43 [24] (Hitbox on L-Leg 11-18; 11-14 hitlag)


    Zelda:zelda:
    D-Throw: NO
    58, 73 [15] (Hitboxes on Ground 24-27, 32-35, 40-43, 48-51)

    U-Throw: YES
    29, 50 [21]

    F-Throw: YES
    32, 50 [18]

    B-Throw: YES
    28, 50 [22]
     
  2. Magus420

    Magus420
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Messages:
    4,541
    Location:
    Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
    Techs & Getups Frame Data

    Mostly self-explanatory. The "Horizontal Movement At" number is my best judgement of the frame you'd be reading and reacting to for the roll in that direction when techchasing. The higher the number is the less time you'll have after reading it to punish before the roll ends.

    In general, the ones with high distance and movement values will be more difficult to punish by reaction, though the size and position of the character matters as well like for Bowser his size effectively negates a fair amount of the distance it covers.


    Universal and Shared Data


    Tech-Neutral

    Total: 26
    Invincible:
    1-20 - [Everyone Else]
    1-24 - Pichu, Pikachu
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tech-Wall

    Total:
    25 - Ice Climbers
    30 - Donkey Kong
    31 - [Everyone Else]

    IASA: 6 (Input an upwards direction anywhere on 1-4 for walljump tech on 6)

    Invincible:
    1-14 - [Everyone Else]
    1-19 - Ganondorf (Walljump teching or performing any action will cancel his extra invincibility to the normal 14)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tech-Wall Jump

    Total: 40
    IASA: 1
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tech-Ceiling

    Total:
    26 - [Everyone Else]
    25 - Donkey Kong, Jigglypuff, Kirby

    Invincible:
    1-18 - Bowser
    1-17 - Dr Mario, Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Luigi, Mario, Mewtwo, Ness, Sheik
    1-15 - Donkey Kong
    1-14 - Falco, Fox, Yoshi
    1-13 - Link, Marth, Pichu, Pikachu, Roy, Young Link
    1-12 - Samus
    1-11 - Captain Falcon, Ganondorf
    NONE - Peach, Zelda
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Non-Teched Floor (Back & Stomach)

    Total: 26
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Non-Teched Ceiling/Wall

    Invincible: 1-15
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Getup-Neutral (Back)

    Total: 30
    Invincible:
    1-24 - Donkey Kong
    1-23 - [Everyone Else]
    1-22 - Marth, Roy
    1-20 - Ice Climbers, Peach, Sheik, Zelda
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Getup-Neutral (Stomach)

    Total: 30
    Invincible:
    1-23 - [Everyone Else]
    1-22 - Marth, Roy
    1-20 - Ice Climbers, Peach, Sheik, Zelda
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------



    Bowser :bowser2:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 14
    Distance: 13.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 8
    Distance: 13.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 18-19 (Behind), 25-26 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 10-11
    (Front), 26-27 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-27

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 16
    Distance: 14.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 13
    Distance: 9.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-27

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 13.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-27 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless an attack is timed on that exact frame)

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 9.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Captain Falcon :falcon:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 16.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 8
    Distance: 13.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20 (Both Sides), 28-29 (Both Sides)
    Invincible: 1-29

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 20-21
    (Behind), 26-27 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-27

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 11 ft
    Invincible: 1-23

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 11 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 11 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 15
    Distance: 11 ft
    Invincible: 1-25
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Doctor Mario :drmario:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 14.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 14.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 20-21
    (Behind), 24-25 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-25

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Behind), 25-26 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 12.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-21

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 12.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 12.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-22

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 12.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-24
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Donkey Kong :dk2:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 14.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 14.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 6-7
    (Behind), 18-19 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Front), 24-25 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-25

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 8
    Distance: 12 ft
    Invincible: 1-14 (If the roll takes you to an edge and you try to move/crouch/jump/shield as it ends you will slip off)

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 16
    Distance: 11.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-24

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 13
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-24 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless you WALK forward, or if an attack is timed on that exact frame)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Falco :falco:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 14.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 14.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 17-19
    (Front), 24-26 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Behind), 25-26 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 12.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 8
    Distance: 12.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 12.8 ft
    Invincible: 12-29 (Not a typo. If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless an attack is timed on that exact frame)

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 12.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-24
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Fox :fox:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 12.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 12.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 17-19
    (Front), 24-26 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Behind), 25-26 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 11 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 8
    Distance: 11 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 11.2 ft
    Invincible: 12-29 (Not a typo. If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless an attack is timed on that exact frame)

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 11 ft
    Invincible: 1-24
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Game & Watch :gw:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 7
    Distance: 9.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 7
    Distance: 9.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 20-21
    (Front), 33-34 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-34

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 20-21
    (Front), 32-33 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-33

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 8.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-21

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 8.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 8.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-22

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 9 ft
    Invincible: 1-24
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Ganondorf :ganondorf:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 18.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 8
    Distance: 15.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Both Sides), 28-29 (Both Sides)
    Invincible: 1-29

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 20-21
    (Behind), 26-27 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-27

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 12.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-23

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 12.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 12.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 15
    Distance: 12.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-25
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Ice Climbers :popo:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 15.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 16
    Distance: 15.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 6-11
    (Behind), 21-26 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Behind), 25-26 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 13.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-21

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 13 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 13 ft
    Invincible: 1-22 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless you WALK forward, or if an attack is timed on that exact frame)

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 13 ft
    Invincible: 1-24
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Jigglypuff :jigglypuf

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 11.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 14.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Behind), 24-25 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-15 (Probably a programming error on this animation and should have been 25)

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 20-21
    (Behind), 24-26 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 15
    Distance: 9.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-18

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 16
    Distance: 9.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-23

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 15
    Distance: 9.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 19 (You'd see her spinning backwards at 12)
    Distance: 8.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-28
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Kirby :kirby2:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 12.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 14.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Behind), 24-25 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-15 (Probably a programming error on this animation and should have been 25)

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 20-21
    (Behind), 24 (Front), 26-27 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-27

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 15
    Distance: 9 ft
    Invincible: 1-18

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 17 (You'd see him spinning forwards at 13)
    Distance: 8.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-23

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 8.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 18 (You'd see him spinning backwards at 11)
    Distance: 9.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-28 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless an attack is timed on that exact frame)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Link :link2:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 16.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 16.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Front), 28-29 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-29

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 15-16
    (Behind), 24-26 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 13.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-24

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 8
    Distance: 14 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 14.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-31

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 14.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-25
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Luigi :luigi2:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 16.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 16.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 20-21
    (Behind), 24-25 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-25

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Behind), 25-26 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 14.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-21

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 14.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 14.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-22

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 14.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-24
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Mario:mario2:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 14.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 14.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 20-21
    (Behind), 24-25 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-25

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Behind), 25-26 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 12.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-21

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 12.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 12.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-22

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 12.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-24
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Marth:marth:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 15.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 8
    Distance: 15.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 20-23
    (Behind), 30-31 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-31

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 22-23
    (Front), 27-28 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-28

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 12.2 ft
    Invincible: 6-19

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 10 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 13
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Mewtwo:mewtwo:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 17
    Distance: 13.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20 (If the roll takes you to an edge and you try to move/crouch/jump/shield as it ends you will slip off)

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 17
    Distance: 13.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-20 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless you WALK forward, or if an attack is timed on that exact frame)

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 18-31
    (Both Sides)
    Invincible: 1-31

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 20-35
    (Both Sides)
    Invincible: 1-35

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 4
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-21 (If the roll takes you to an edge and you try to move/crouch/jump/shield as it ends you will slip off)

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 4
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19 (If the roll takes you to an edge and you try to move/crouch/jump/shield as it ends you will slip off)

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 4
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-22 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless you WALK forward, or if an attack is timed on that exact frame)

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 4
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-24 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless you WALK forward, or if an attack is timed on that exact frame)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Ness:ness2:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 13.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 13.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 20-21
    (Behind), 24-25 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-25

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Behind), 25-26 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 7
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-21

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 13
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-22

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 11.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-19
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Peach:peach:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 8
    Distance: 15.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 15.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 17-19
    (Behind), 25-27 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-27

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 17-18
    (Front), 25-26 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 13 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 13 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 13 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 3
    Distance: 14.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-19
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Pichu:pichu:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 8.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 8.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 13-14
    (Behind), 18-19 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 50
    Hit: 17-18
    (Front), 23-24 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-24

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 6.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-14

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 36
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 4.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 6 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 4.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-19
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Pikachu:pikachu2:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 12 ft
    Invincible: 1-20 (If the roll takes you to an edge and you try to move/crouch/jump/shield as it ends you will slip off)

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 13.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 13-14
    (Behind), 18-19 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 50
    Hit: 17-18
    (Front), 23-24 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-24

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-14

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 36
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 8.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 10.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 7.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-19
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Roy:roymelee:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 14.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 8
    Distance: 14.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 20-23
    (Behind), 30-31 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-31

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 22-23
    (Front), 27-28 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-28

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 6-19

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 10.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 9.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 13
    Distance: 10.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-19
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Samus:samus2:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 11.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 11.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Both Sides), 28-29 (Both Sides)
    Invincible: 1-29

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Behind), 25-27 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-27

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 10 ft
    Invincible: 1-14

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 10 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 10 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 15
    Distance: 10 ft
    Invincible: 1-22
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Sheik:shiek:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 16.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 6
    Distance: 16.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 17-19
    (Front), 24-26 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 16-17
    (Behind), 20-21 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-21

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 7
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-22 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless you WALK forward, or if an attack is timed on that exact frame)

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 4
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Yoshi:yoshi2:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 14.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 14.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 13-14
    (Front), 19-20 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 14-15
    (Front), 25-26 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 4
    Distance: 12.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19 (If the roll takes you to an edge and you try to move/crouch/jump/shield as it ends you will slip off)

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 7
    Distance: 12 ft
    Invincible: 1-14

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 5
    Distance: 12.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-24

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 12.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-29
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Young Link :toonlink:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 12.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 12.8 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 19-20
    (Front), 28-29 (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-29

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 15-16
    (Behind), 24-26 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 11 ft
    Invincible: 1-24

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 8
    Distance: 11 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 11
    Distance: 11.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-31

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 11.2 ft
    Invincible: 1-25
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Zelda:zelda:

    Tech-Roll Forward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 8
    Distance: 16.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Tech-Roll Backward
    Total: 40
    Horizontal Movement At: 9
    Distance: 16.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-20

    Getup-Attack (Back)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 17-19
    (Behind), 25-27 (Front)
    Invincible: 1-27

    Getup-Attack (Stomach)
    Total: 49
    Hit: 17-18 (Front), 25-26
    (Behind)
    Invincible: 1-26

    Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 14.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 12
    Distance: 14.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 10
    Distance: 14.4 ft
    Invincible: 1-19

    Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Total: 35
    Horizontal Movement At: 3
    Distance: 15.6 ft
    Invincible: 1-19
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Geranimo, Vestboy_Myst, CeLL and 7 others like this.
  3. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,024
    Location:
    Orlando Florida
    Magus is too sexy.

    This needs to go in the everything thread.

    So all throws have 8 frames of invincibility at the start of the throw. This will probably be ridiculously useful in teams.

    Just one more question I need to ask. Do invincible characters go through hitstun when they get "hit" and does their invincibility extend accordingly? I ask because I wanted to know what would happen if I time a throw so that I'm invincible when an attack is hitting both of us (like if Jigglypuff rests the opponent while I'm throwing them). Jigglypuff's rest hitbox would extend for 10 additional frames (I think that's how long it was anyway) due to the opponent being in hitstun, but would my invincibility extend by 10 frames as well?
     
  4. MikeHaggarTHAKJB

    MikeHaggarTHAKJB
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,190
    Location:
    Göteborg, Sweden
    OH MY GOD THANK YOU SO ****ING MUCH
    i've been looking EVERYWHERE for this info
    magus for president
     
  5. Magus420

    Magus420
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Messages:
    4,541
    Location:
    Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
    It's green type invincibility (this is also the invincibility type you get when respawning). If you get hit while g-invincible you do not go into hitlag, but the opponent does. The hitbox counts as hitting you so the same one wouldn't be able to hit you again afterwards.

    Blue on the other hand like on dodges, shines, rest, ledge invincibility, etc, has neither char go into hitlag, and the attack does not count as hitting you. If the hitbox were to come out ontop of them near the end of b-invincibility and stay out until they come out of it it will hit them the moment they do.
     
  6. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,024
    Location:
    Orlando Florida
    Oh, that's pretty cool.

    I always wondered how the game did that.
     
  7. Proverbs

    Proverbs
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    Messages:
    1,698
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Magus is amazing. End of story.
     
  8. Magus420

    Magus420
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Messages:
    4,541
    Location:
    Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
    Something interesting I just realized is that the reason Bowser's d-throw doesn't damage Jiggs/G&W (are there any others? maybe Kirby/Fox in PAL?) is because of the speed up on the throw animation due to their weight.

    For them it gets to frame 46.67 in the animation, and then on the next game frame it skips frame 47 of the animation entirely which is the one with the hitbox, and goes directly into 48.33 of the animation without ever hitting them.
     
  9. otg

    otg
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    4,492
    Location:
    On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
    EDIT:


    NVM, just read through it again and answered my own question. Good ****ing **** Magus.
     
  10. Stos

    Stos
    Expand Collapse
    Loves Pink Poodles

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    342
    Location:
    1<3TO
    goood ****.
    *reads everything*
     
  11. Vro

    Vro
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,647
    Location:
    Chicago
    thanks magus. /clap
     
  12. Weimdog

    Weimdog
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    241
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    This is awesome, nice job, I was very interested about these numbers and now I have them!
    Thanks a lot.
     
  13. ZoSo

    ZoSo
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,884
    Location:
    Melee
    After I sent you that last PM I figured that would be the end of it.

    I underestimated you, clearly.

    <3
     
  14. MikeHaggarTHAKJB

    MikeHaggarTHAKJB
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,190
    Location:
    Göteborg, Sweden
    Magus, I tested the Bowser Dthrow thing for PAL:
    The length of Bowser Dthrow animation will always be the same in PAL, regardless of the weight of the char bowser is throwing (unlike how it works in NTSC).

    I tested this simply through taking 3 bowsers and one kirby to FD, grabbing Kirby with bowser #1 and grabbing bowser #3 with bowser #2. Then I paused the game, held Down and Shield on the controllers for Bowser #1 and #2, then I unpaused. So Bowser #1 and #2 started their throw on the same frame, and if one of them was faster they'd get their shield up first. But they didn't, they got their shield at the same time!

    And as a result, Bowsers Dthrow will always do damage to the opponent in PAL (I tested this aswell, it does 12% to kirby, fox, g&w and puff like it does to all other chars)

    Guess Nintendo changed this between the versions so that Bowsers dthrow would do damage to everyone.


    BTW: Does anybody with PAL and AR want to make a quick test if the weight change thingymangs between the PAL and NTSC versions that Magus posted are fully correct?
     
  15. Da Shuffla

    Da Shuffla
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,810
    Thank you! It pays to just do some research on the more technical aspects of a game. I'll use it well.
     
  16. Havokbringer

    Havokbringer
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    El Sobrante,CA
    Yay for becoming a robot :D.

    I already knew about the throw invinciblity, I use it all the time in teams :D.
     
  17. Magus420

    Magus420
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Messages:
    4,541
    Location:
    Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
    I edited the Techs/Getups stuff in the 2nd post to be more readable, lol.
     
  18. MikeHaggarTHAKJB

    MikeHaggarTHAKJB
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,190
    Location:
    Göteborg, Sweden
    Good ****
    Why hasn't this been put in the official everything thread yet?
     
  19. Teczer0

    Teczer0
    Expand Collapse
    Research Assistant

    • Premium
    • Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    16,863
    Location:
    Convex Cone, Positive Orthant

    LMAO, Peach and Zelda don't feel like being invincible for ceiling techs?

    WTF LOL

    Magus you're too amazing =D
     
  20. Magus420

    Magus420
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Messages:
    4,541
    Location:
    Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
    Yeah, that was definitely a WTF moment when I was testing that. Same with a couple of the getups randomly not having any invincibility at the beginning while the 3485729 other ones all have it starting from frame 1 :psycho:.
     
  21. Cia

    Cia
    Expand Collapse
    das kwl

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2007
    Messages:
    8,231
    Location:
    Top of the Tier List

    LOLOL.. i noticed that too. stupid hoes

    and this thread is soo incredibly useful. Thanks Magus :]
     
  22. Witchking_of_Angmar

    Witchking_of_Angmar
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,846
    Location:
    Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
    Have my babies Magus. :)

    Awesome.
     
  23. soap

    soap
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Messages:
    7,230
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    so the only trends i noticed were that forward techs seemed to have faster AT's and more distance than backward techs. this seems to make it easier to react to techchases cuz if they DI away and tech away they have to use the slower away tech. seems like DI to the other side and tech roll away so u can use forward roll is the quickest combo
     
  24. NJzFinest

    NJzFinest
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    8,857
    Location:
    Close to Rutgers and Princeton (New Jersey)
    Magus is amazing
     
  25. SPAWN

    SPAWN
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,121
    Location:
    CT
    Magus is tooo good.

    On what frame can Fox and Falco do a shine after they do a neutral tech?

    ...It's extremely quick and broken lol.
     
  26. Witchking_of_Angmar

    Witchking_of_Angmar
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,846
    Location:
    Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
    Tech-Neutral

    Total: 26
    Invincible:
    1-20 - [Everyone Else]
    1-24 - Pichu, Pikachu

    Since it finishes on frame 26, I'll assume that they can do a shine on frame 27, leaving them open for exactly 6 frames [21-26; 27 is already invincible because of shine], which is 1/10 of a second.

    You better have hella good timing if you wanna punish that. Or you could outspace them and hit them with something bigger than the shine. Like Marth's sword. Or his hand, for that matter.

    Did I do it right?
     
  27. SPAWN

    SPAWN
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,121
    Location:
    CT
    ****, that's why it is so hard to tech chase fox/falco when they tech in place. Assuming you did it right, which I think you did. I wonder if Sheik can space her grab to get fox/falco's shine. T_T
     
  28. Witchking_of_Angmar

    Witchking_of_Angmar
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,846
    Location:
    Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
    I doubt it. If you can, it's probably just as hard as trying to grab them before they can shine.
     
  29. SPAWN

    SPAWN
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,121
    Location:
    CT
    :( Probably. Thanks.
     
  30. RaynEX

    RaynEX
    Expand Collapse
    Colonel RTSD

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    6,453
    Location:
    Corneria, Lylat System

    <3 Magus. so much useful information on here.
     
  31. elvenarrow3000

    elvenarrow3000
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,308
    Awesome compilation. I'll be sure to watch out for those five frames of vulnerability for Marth =P

    Hey Magus, does the hitstun formula apply for everything or is it just throws? And if it is just throws, is there a formula for hitstun? Like... hitstun, not hitlag.
     
  32. KirbyKaze

    KirbyKaze
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    Messages:
    17,678
    Location:
    Spiral Mountain
    edit: That would be so cool.
     
  33. MikeHaggarTHAKJB

    MikeHaggarTHAKJB
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,190
    Location:
    Göteborg, Sweden
    6 frames isn't that bad. That's about the same amount of time you have to L-cancel.
    Not saying I can tech chase people who do that tho (unless I predict it), my reaction speed is to slow :(
     
  34. KirbyKaze

    KirbyKaze
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    Messages:
    17,678
    Location:
    Spiral Mountain
    Just do moves lol.
     
  35. Witchking_of_Angmar

    Witchking_of_Angmar
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,846
    Location:
    Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
    OK, for hitbox size comparisons, we have Fox' Shine and Sheik's grab and dash grab (Seanson didn't do Falco yet, so I have no access to those pictures hitboxes).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I don't know about zoom and stuff in those pics, but from what it looks like to me, trying to space a grab so the shine doesn't hit you looks like it'll just get you hurt.
     
  36. Wind Owl

    Wind Owl
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,856
    Location:
    Suburbs of Philadelphia, PA
    I don't know frame data for Falco's Shine, but Fox's shine is active on the first frame and can be jump canceled after frame 3.

    Falco can either let go of B and wait for his Shine to end, which takes a while, or jump cancel his Shine.
    Falco's jump has startup lag of 6 frames (he's airborne on frame 7)
    Assuming Falco has at least 2 frames of lag before he can jump again, like Fox does, he can be in the air after a Shine in 10 frames total.

    Sheik's grab starts up in 7 frames and extends beyond her idle hurtbox. It can also grab Falco out of the air for a couple frames even after he's started jumping (or wavedashing backwards).

    So, in theory, Sheik can bait the Shine and if she starts her grab within a couple frames of its active frame, she can grab him.

    I would test myself, but I don't have a GameCube.

    EDIT: WTF is up with Sheik's dashgrab having TWO grab boxes? lol
     
  37. Witchking_of_Angmar

    Witchking_of_Angmar
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,846
    Location:
    Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
    A lot of characters have that second hitbox behind them on the dash grab.

    I don't really get what you're trying to say though. If sheik is close enough to grab Fox/Falco, she gets hit by the shine.

    You really have only a few options here:

    1) Grab them while they're still doing the tech but have lost their invincibility.
    2) Outspace them. Just grab after the tech and theoretically, the shine won't hit you, but you will grab them after they lose invincibility from the shine. NOT SURE IF THIS IS POSSIBLE
    3) Time a dash grab so that you slide into range after the shine hitbox is gone but before they can possibly do anything else. Basically, you're standing out of range of the shine and your grab. They tech and subsequently shine. You start moving so that right after the shine hitbox is gone, you're close enough to grab them and do so.

    All of those are hard, but the first one is probably the easisest since it's a matter of rather simple timing that can be learned.
     
  38. Wind Owl

    Wind Owl
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,856
    Location:
    Suburbs of Philadelphia, PA
    I'm trying to say, "tech in place shine" is a separate and punishable wakeup option. If you expect "tech in place" and try to punish that, of course you're going to get hit by the shine. But if you wait for the shine, you can punish it.

    Basically everything you said in your last post.
     
  39. SPAWN

    SPAWN
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,121
    Location:
    CT
    If you wait for the shine, they can just do something right after, like jc grab out of shine, lol. Getting grabbed by Fox is not cool.
     
  40. Magus420

    Magus420
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Messages:
    4,541
    Location:
    Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
    Everything.


    As for the grab thing, you generally don't put yourself out that far until it actually grabs, so if you're spaced most characters won't get hit unless the 2 moves hit at the same time. So, if you were to begin the grab 4 frames before they shine, the shine will hit for 1 frame before you are within its range, then before they can jump out of it you reach in and grab them. It's really easy to outspace Falco's since his has crap range and is part of what makes his shine so shieldgrabbable using shield DI.


    If you have very good reaction time and enough practice, you can react to there being no horizontal movement (tech-roll) or green flash (no tech) by 9 frames into their landing (his tech-roll forward doesn't really show itself through movement until frame 9, which is the later of the 2 tech-rolls). Add your time to react to there being neither of these 2 things by frame 9 onto that (let's say 10-15), and then the time to grab, and you can see how it really comes down to reaction time.

    If they time a shine perfectly you'll get them with 10, but not any slower than that. You might be able to get them with 11-12 if their timing isn't perfect. Again though, with some spacing you can still get them later than that as long as the 2 moves don't come out at the same time and you're not like Pikachu or something and trying to grab them with cute little T-Rex arms.

    It should be noted that this is a little different kind of reaction time than what those "click the dot when it changes" type tests tell you, though they can give you a general idea.


    ***An important thing to know is that for tech/getup rolls that have late movements it may be better to identify those ones by the startup animation itself if it is unique to the others rather than the movement from it. For example, Jiggs/Kirby have a really noticeable spin on some of their getups that happens well before they actually move by a noticeable amount. Others point their legs in the direction they are tech-rolling very early on before moving in that direction.

    In the case with Fox/Falco, a noticeable part of their tech in place is that they point one leg in each direction at the startup, which may be sooner noticed/more effective for that getup than looking for the others not happening to show a tech in place. In their cases, the tech in place is essentially 'shorter' than others as far as grabs are concerned since they have a 1 frame invincibility move on getup while others would be grabbable for an extra 2 frames or more. If their name isn't Bowser or Zelda who have slower startup on them, a buffered sidestep is vulnerable to grab for 2 frames longer than Fox/Falco with a perfectly timed shine (1F Shield, 1F Startup, and then Invincible).
     

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)

We know you don't like ads
Why not buy Premium?