Detailed Throws, Techs, and Getups Frame Data

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
#1
For Techs and Getups data click: HERE



Throws Frame Data

This is a list of data for throws and how their speeds are affected by weight. If unaffected, the throw animations on all characters will be the same. With the throws that are affected, heavier characters will make the animation play through slower while lighter chars will be faster. The more it is slowed down, the greater the total time between when they are released and when the throw ends becomes and will be harder to follow up, and the opposite is true for when it's sped up.

The format of the index is:

{Throw}: {Affected by weight?}
{Released Frame}, {1st Actionable Frame} [{1stAF - Released}] ({Hitbox/es on throw animation if any}; {Other notable info})


The release/total times include hitlag affecting the thrower, so if the animation were to release on 30 but has 3 additional freeze frames during it it'd be listed as 33.


For the actual amount it is changed, it's based on their weight multipliers which are the following:

Weight Multiplier List (NTSC)

1.17 - Bowser
1.14 - Donkey Kong
1.10 - Samus
1.09 - Ganondorf
1.08 - Yoshi
1.04 - Captain Falcon / Link
1.00 - Dr Mario / Luigi / Mario
0.94 - Ness
0.90 - Peach / Sheik / Zelda
0.88 - Ice Climbers
0.87 - Marth
0.85 - Mewtwo / Roy / Young Link
0.80 - Falco / Pikachu
0.75 - Fox
0.70 - Kirby
0.60 - Jigglypuff / Mr Game & Watch
0.55 - Pichu

I'm not positive about the multipliers for PAL, but I'm guessing that this change list that I found...

Kirby + 4
Yoshi + 3
Bowser + 1
Marth - 1
Fox - 2
Mario - 2


Would make it:

Weight Multiplier List (PAL)
1.18 - Bowser
1.14 - Donkey Kong
1.11 - Yoshi
1.10 - Samus
1.09 - Ganondorf
1.04 - Captain Falcon / Link
1.00 - Dr Mario / Luigi
0.98 - Mario
0.94 - Ness
0.90 - Peach / Sheik / Zelda
0.88 - Ice Climbers
0.86 - Marth
0.85 - Mewtwo / Roy / Young Link
0.80 - Falco / Pikachu
0.74 - Kirby
0.73 - Fox
0.60 - Jigglypuff / Mr Game & Watch
0.55 - Pichu



To find the times for throws that are affected by weight, simply multiply the number listed by the character's weight and round up to the next whole frame.

So for Bowser's F-Throw which is normally...

35, 60 [25]

...used on Fox it'd be:

26.25 -> 27, 45.00 -> 45 [45-27 = 18]
=
27, 45 [18]


Notice how while you could use 25 x 0.75 to get a quick estimate for the difference, it won't always be accurate. In this case it'd give you 18.75 -> 19, which is 1 frame off.



Other Stuff to Note About Throws

All throws have:
Invincibility: 1-8


DI on throws is read ON the frame immediately before release, so if it releases on frame 8 you would need to be holding it before frame 7 to then be read on frame 7. Also, releases that are faster than around 10-12 or so (including the weight speed change if applicable) will be very difficult to impossible to DI a certain way in time if you throw immediately and they weren't expecting to be grabbed.

Unlike attacks, throw launch power is unaffected by weight, and with it the stun time as well. So for throws with animations that are unaffected by weight, you would have the same amount of time to follow up
on Bowser as you would against Pichu when the percents are the same.

Also, since the launch speeds on 2 given characters will always be the same at the same percents, a character that falls faster like Pichu can survive something like Peach's F-Throw until higher percents than Samus would.

Speaking of stun time, I figured out the formula for it:

Hitstun = Launch Speed/1.475

(and again, rounded up to the next whole frame)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Bowser :bowser2:
D-Throw: YES (NTSC); NO (PAL)
62, 91 [29]
(Hitbox on Head and Chest 47-53; 47-53 hitlag; due to their weight, frame 47 is skipped entirely against Jiggs and G&W in NTSC, and thus does no damage and has no hitbox when used on them)

U-Throw: NO
68, 86 [18] (Continuous hitboxes on Back at 20, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, 44, 48 of the animation with 2 added freeze frames on each hit; in real time the hitboxes are out from 20-67)

F-Throw: YES
35, 60 [25]

B-Throw: YES
18, 40 [22]

Klaw: NO
N/A, 2 [N/A]

[K]F-Throw: NO
24, 44 [20] (Hitbox on Opponent 18-22; 18-23 hitlag; A/S/DI-able; opponent doesn't become a hitbox upon release)

[K]B-Throw: NO
14, 41 [27]


Captain Falcon :falcon:
D-Throw: YES
20, 40 [20]

U-Throw: NO
18, 47 [29] (Hitbox on L-Arm 11-31; 11-14 hitlag)

F-Throw: NO
21, 43 [22] (Hitbox on L-Arm 11-20; 11-14 hitlag)

B-Throw: NO
23, 53 [30] (Hitbox on R-Leg 12-22; 12-15 hitlag)


Doctor Mario :drmario:
D-Throw: YES
18, 40 [22]

U-Throw: YES
18, 40 [22]

F-Throw: YES
12, 28 [16]

B-Throw: YES
44, 67 [23] (Hitbox on Opponent 1-43)


Donkey Kong :dk2:
D-Throw: YES
40, 60 [20]

U-Throw: YES
13, 44 [31]

B-Throw: YES
14, 40 [26]

F-Throw: YES
N/A, 20 [N/A]

[C]D-Throw: NO
15, 40 [25]

[C]U-Throw: NO
14, 30 [16]

[C]F-Throw: NO
15, 40 [25]

[C]B-Throw: NO
15, 40 [25]


Falco :falco:
D-Throw: YES
45, 56 [11] (Lasers on 23, 25, 28, 31; 3 added freeze frames on each when the lasers connect, except for Fox only the first 3 lasers add freeze frames for Falco; Fox can A/S/DI the last laser hit with 4 frames of hitlag; hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent)

U-Throw: YES
7, 39 [32] (Lasers on 18, 20, 24; Lasers are A/S/DI-able with 4 frames of hitlag; hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent; opponent no longer a hitbox after release if hit by lasers)

F-Throw: YES
14, 37 [23] (Hitbox on L-Arm 10-13; 10-13 hitlag)

B-Throw: YES
9, 39 [30] (Lasers on 15, 18, 21; Lasers are A/S/DI-able with 4 frames of hitlag; hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent; opponent no longer a hitbox after release if hit by lasers)


Fox :fox:
D-Throw: NO
33, 44 [11] (Lasers on 23, 25, 28, 31; hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent)

U-Throw: YES
8, 39 [31] (Lasers on 18, 20, 24; hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent)

F-Throw: NO
14, 37 [23] (Hitbox on L-Arm 10-13; 10-13 hitlag)

B-Throw: YES
9, 39 [30] (Lasers on 15, 18, 21; hitboxes on lasers disappear upon hitting opponent)


Game & Watch :gw:
D-Throw: YES
55, 70 [15]

U-Throw: YES
55, 70 [15]

F-Throw: YES
55, 70 [15]

B-Throw: YES
55, 70 [15] (Hitbox on Opponent 1-54)


Ganondorf :ganondorf:
D-Throw: YES
20, 40 [20]

U-Throw: NO
18, 47 [29] (Hitbox on L-Arm 11-31; 11-14 hitlag)

F-Throw: NO
21, 43 [22] (Hitbox on L-Arm 11-20; 11-14 hitlag)

B-Throw: NO
23, 53 [30] (Hitbox on R-Leg 12-22; 12-15 hitlag)


Ice Climbers :popo:
D-Throw: YES
36, 50 [14]

U-Throw: NO
35, 64 [29] (Hitbox on Hammer 25-34; 25-29 hitlag)

F-Throw: NO
32, 54 [22] (Hitbox on Hammer 24-31; 24-28 hitlag)

B-Throw: YES
17, 40 [23] (Hitbox on Opponent 1-16)


Jigglypuff :jigglypuf
D-Throw: NO
74, 96 [22] (Hitboxes on Ground 10-14, 25-29, 40-44, 55-59, 70-73)

U-Throw: YES
8, 42 [34]

F-Throw: NO
15, 40 [25] (Hitbox on entire body 10-14; 10-14 hitlag; A/SDI-able; opponent doesn't become a hitbox upon release)

B-Throw: YES
25, 50 [25]


Kirby :kirby2:
D-Throw: NO
59, 90 [31] (Non-damaging hitboxes on Feet 10-11, 14-15, 18-19, 22-23, 26-27, 30-31, 34-35, 38-39, 42-43; damaging hitbox on 56-58; 56-58 hitlag)

U-Throw: NO
51, 80 [29]

F-Throw: NO
46, 63 [17] (Can be escaped mid-throw until release frame; stays on frame 33 until you land)

B-Throw: NO
29, 50 [21] (Can be escaped mid-throw until release frame; stays on frame 23 until you land)


Link :link2:
D-Throw: YES
30, 52 [22] (Hitbox on L-Shoulder 22-25; 22-24 hitlag)

U-Throw: NO
30, 53 [23] (Hitbox on Sword 26-29; 26-29 hitlag)

F-Throw: NO
19, 43 [24] (Hitbox on R-Leg 12-18; 12-15 hitlag)

B-Throw: NO
19, 43 [24] (Hitbox on L-Leg 11-18; 11-14 hitlag)


Luigi :luigi2:
D-Throw: YES
18, 40 [22]

U-Throw: YES
18, 40 [22]

F-Throw: YES
12, 28 [16]

B-Throw: YES
44, 67 [23] (Hitbox on Opponent 1-43)


Mario:mario2:
D-Throw: YES
18, 40 [22]

U-Throw: YES
18, 40 [22]

F-Throw: YES
12, 28 [16]

B-Throw: YES
44, 67 [23] (Hitbox on Opponent 1-43)


Marth:marth:
D-Throw: YES
14, 43 [29]

U-Throw: YES
12, 45 [33]

F-Throw: YES
14, 32 [18]

B-Throw: YES
7, 45 [38]


Mewtwo:mewtwo:
D-Throw: NO
28, 53 [25] (Hitbox on Tail 15-27; 15-18 hitlag)

U-Throw: YES
42, 70 [28]

F-Throw: YES
18, 75 [57] (Shadowballs on 32, 39, 46, 53, 60; SBs are A/S/DI-able with 3 frames of hitlag; hitboxes on SBs disappear upon hitting opponent; opponent no longer a hitbox after release if hit by SBs)

B-Throw: YES
29, 50 [21] (Hitbox on Opponent 1-28)


Ness:ness2:
D-Throw: NO
40, 60 [20] (Continuous hitboxes on Ground at 10, 14, 18, 22, 26 of the animation with 2 added freeze frames on each hit; in real time the hitboxes are out from 10-39)

U-Throw: YES
36, 56 [20]

F-Throw: YES
27, 53 [26]

B-Throw: YES
27, 53 [26]


Peach:peach:
D-Throw: NO
43, 65 [22]

U-Throw: NO
27, 50 [23] (Hitbox on Hands 20-26; 20-22 hitlag)

F-Throw: NO
17, 36 [19] (Hitbox on R-Arm 14-16; 14-16 hitlag)

B-Throw: NO
23, 52 [29] (Hitbox on Butt 20-22; 20-22 hitlag)


Pichu:pichu:
D-Throw: NO
23, 51 [28] (Hitbox on Ground 12-22; 12-15 hitlag)

U-Throw: NO
23, 47 [24] (Hitbox on Head 14-22; 14-17 hitlag)

F-Throw: NO
37, 52 [15] (Continuous hitboxes on Back at 10, 14, 18, 22 of the animation with 2 added freeze frames on each hit; in real time the hitboxes are out from 10-33)

B-Throw: YES
30, 50 [20]


Pikachu:pikachu2:
D-Throw: NO
23, 51 [28] (Hitbox on Ground 12-22; 12-15 hitlag)

U-Throw: NO
23, 47 [24] (Hitbox on Head 14-22; 14-17 hitlag)

F-Throw: NO
37, 52 [15] (Continuous hitboxes on Back at 10, 14, 18, 22 of the animation with 2 added freeze frames on each hit; in real time the hitboxes are out from 10-33)

B-Throw: YES
30, 50 [20]


Roy:roymelee:
D-Throw: YES
14, 43 [29]

U-Throw: YES
12, 45 [33]

F-Throw: YES
14, 32 [18]

B-Throw: YES
7, 45 [38]


Samus:samus2:
D-Throw: YES
21, 42 [21]

U-Throw: YES
31, 42 [11] (Non-damaging hitbox on Tip of arm cannon 13)

F-Throw: YES
15, 42 [27]

B-Throw: YES
11, 42 [31]


Sheik:shiek:
D-Throw: NO
39, 61 [22] (Hitbox on Ground 31-38; 31-34 hitlag)

U-Throw: NO
27, 62 [35] (Hitbox on Feet 19-26; 19-23 hitlag)

F-Throw: NO
28, 52 [24] (Hitbox on L-Shoulder 20-27; 20-24 hitlag)

B-Throw: NO
23, 51 [28] (Hitbox on R-Leg 15-22; 15-18 hitlag)


Yoshi:yoshi2:
D-Throw: YES
14, 44 [30] (Opponent is invincible until release)

U-Throw: YES
12, 44 [32] (Opponent is invincible until release)

F-Throw: YES
19, 40 [21] (Opponent is invincible until release)

B-Throw: YES
19, 44 [25] (Opponent is invincible until release)


Young Link :toonlink:
D-Throw: YES
30, 52 [22] (Hitbox on L-Shoulder 22-25; 22-24 hitlag)

U-Throw: NO
30, 53 [23] (Hitbox on Sword 26-29; 26-29 hitlag)

F-Throw: NO
19, 43 [24] (Hitbox on R-Leg 12-18; 12-15 hitlag)

B-Throw: NO
19, 43 [24] (Hitbox on L-Leg 11-18; 11-14 hitlag)


Zelda:zelda:
D-Throw: NO
58, 73 [15] (Hitboxes on Ground 24-27, 32-35, 40-43, 48-51)

U-Throw: YES
29, 50 [21]

F-Throw: YES
32, 50 [18]

B-Throw: YES
28, 50 [22]
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
#2
Techs & Getups Frame Data

Mostly self-explanatory. The "Horizontal Movement At" number is my best judgement of the frame you'd be reading and reacting to for the roll in that direction when techchasing. The higher the number is the less time you'll have after reading it to punish before the roll ends.

In general, the ones with high distance and movement values will be more difficult to punish by reaction, though the size and position of the character matters as well like for Bowser his size effectively negates a fair amount of the distance it covers.


Universal and Shared Data


Tech-Neutral

Total: 26
Invincible:
1-20 - [Everyone Else]
1-24 - Pichu, Pikachu
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Tech-Wall

Total:
25 - Ice Climbers
30 - Donkey Kong
31 - [Everyone Else]

IASA: 6 (Input an upwards direction anywhere on 1-4 for walljump tech on 6)

Invincible:
1-14 - [Everyone Else]
1-19 - Ganondorf (Walljump teching or performing any action will cancel his extra invincibility to the normal 14)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Tech-Wall Jump

Total: 40
IASA: 1
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Tech-Ceiling

Total:
26 - [Everyone Else]
25 - Donkey Kong, Jigglypuff, Kirby

Invincible:
1-18 - Bowser
1-17 - Dr Mario, Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Luigi, Mario, Mewtwo, Ness, Sheik
1-15 - Donkey Kong
1-14 - Falco, Fox, Yoshi
1-13 - Link, Marth, Pichu, Pikachu, Roy, Young Link
1-12 - Samus
1-11 - Captain Falcon, Ganondorf
NONE - Peach, Zelda
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Non-Teched Floor (Back & Stomach)

Total: 26
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Non-Teched Ceiling/Wall

Invincible: 1-15
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Getup-Neutral (Back)

Total: 30
Invincible:
1-24 - Donkey Kong
1-23 - [Everyone Else]
1-22 - Marth, Roy
1-20 - Ice Climbers, Peach, Sheik, Zelda
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Getup-Neutral (Stomach)

Total: 30
Invincible:
1-23 - [Everyone Else]
1-22 - Marth, Roy
1-20 - Ice Climbers, Peach, Sheik, Zelda
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------



Bowser :bowser2:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 14
Distance: 13.8 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 8
Distance: 13.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 18-19 (Behind), 25-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 10-11
(Front), 26-27 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-27

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 16
Distance: 14.2 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 13
Distance: 9.4 ft
Invincible: 1-27

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 13.4 ft
Invincible: 1-27 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless an attack is timed on that exact frame)

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 9.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Captain Falcon :falcon:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 16.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 8
Distance: 13.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20 (Both Sides), 28-29 (Both Sides)
Invincible: 1-29

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 20-21
(Behind), 26-27 (Front)
Invincible: 1-27

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 11 ft
Invincible: 1-23

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 11 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 11 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 15
Distance: 11 ft
Invincible: 1-25
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Doctor Mario :drmario:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 14.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 14.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 20-21
(Behind), 24-25 (Front)
Invincible: 1-25

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Behind), 25-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 12.6 ft
Invincible: 1-21

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-22

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-24
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Donkey Kong :dk2:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 14.8 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 14.8 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 6-7
(Behind), 18-19 (Front)
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Front), 24-25 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-25

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 8
Distance: 12 ft
Invincible: 1-14 (If the roll takes you to an edge and you try to move/crouch/jump/shield as it ends you will slip off)

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 16
Distance: 11.6 ft
Invincible: 1-24

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 13
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-24 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless you WALK forward, or if an attack is timed on that exact frame)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Falco :falco:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 14.4 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 14.4 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 17-19
(Front), 24-26 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Behind), 25-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 8
Distance: 12.6 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 12.8 ft
Invincible: 12-29 (Not a typo. If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless an attack is timed on that exact frame)

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 12.6 ft
Invincible: 1-24
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Fox :fox:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 12.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 12.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 17-19
(Front), 24-26 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Behind), 25-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 11 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 8
Distance: 11 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 11.2 ft
Invincible: 12-29 (Not a typo. If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless an attack is timed on that exact frame)

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 11 ft
Invincible: 1-24
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Game & Watch :gw:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 7
Distance: 9.8 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 7
Distance: 9.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 20-21
(Front), 33-34 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-34

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 20-21
(Front), 32-33 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-33

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 8.6 ft
Invincible: 1-21

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 8.8 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 8.4 ft
Invincible: 1-22

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 9 ft
Invincible: 1-24
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Ganondorf :ganondorf:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 18.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 8
Distance: 15.2 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Both Sides), 28-29 (Both Sides)
Invincible: 1-29

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 20-21
(Behind), 26-27 (Front)
Invincible: 1-27

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-23

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 12.2 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 15
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-25
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Ice Climbers :popo:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 15.2 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 16
Distance: 15.2 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 6-11
(Behind), 21-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Behind), 25-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 13.2 ft
Invincible: 1-21

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 13 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 13 ft
Invincible: 1-22 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless you WALK forward, or if an attack is timed on that exact frame)

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 13 ft
Invincible: 1-24
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Jigglypuff :jigglypuf

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 11.8 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 14.8 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Behind), 24-25 (Front)
Invincible: 1-15 (Probably a programming error on this animation and should have been 25)

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 20-21
(Behind), 24-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 15
Distance: 9.2 ft
Invincible: 1-18

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 16
Distance: 9.2 ft
Invincible: 1-23

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 15
Distance: 9.2 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 19 (You'd see her spinning backwards at 12)
Distance: 8.4 ft
Invincible: 1-28
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Kirby :kirby2:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 14.4 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Behind), 24-25 (Front)
Invincible: 1-15 (Probably a programming error on this animation and should have been 25)

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 20-21
(Behind), 24 (Front), 26-27 (Front)
Invincible: 1-27

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 15
Distance: 9 ft
Invincible: 1-18

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 17 (You'd see him spinning forwards at 13)
Distance: 8.8 ft
Invincible: 1-23

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 8.8 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 18 (You'd see him spinning backwards at 11)
Distance: 9.4 ft
Invincible: 1-28 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless an attack is timed on that exact frame)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Link :link2:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 16.2 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 16.2 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Front), 28-29 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-29

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 15-16
(Behind), 24-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 13.8 ft
Invincible: 1-24

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 8
Distance: 14 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 14.4 ft
Invincible: 1-31

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 14.2 ft
Invincible: 1-25
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Luigi :luigi2:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 16.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 16.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 20-21
(Behind), 24-25 (Front)
Invincible: 1-25

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Behind), 25-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 14.4 ft
Invincible: 1-21

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 14.2 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 14.2 ft
Invincible: 1-22

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 14.2 ft
Invincible: 1-24
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mario:mario2:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 14.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 14.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 20-21
(Behind), 24-25 (Front)
Invincible: 1-25

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Behind), 25-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 12.6 ft
Invincible: 1-21

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-22

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-24
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Marth:marth:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 15.2 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 8
Distance: 15.2 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 20-23
(Behind), 30-31 (Front)
Invincible: 1-31

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 22-23
(Front), 27-28 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-28

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 12.2 ft
Invincible: 6-19

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 10 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 13
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mewtwo:mewtwo:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 17
Distance: 13.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20 (If the roll takes you to an edge and you try to move/crouch/jump/shield as it ends you will slip off)

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 17
Distance: 13.4 ft
Invincible: 1-20 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless you WALK forward, or if an attack is timed on that exact frame)

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 18-31
(Both Sides)
Invincible: 1-31

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 20-35
(Both Sides)
Invincible: 1-35

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 4
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-21 (If the roll takes you to an edge and you try to move/crouch/jump/shield as it ends you will slip off)

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 4
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19 (If the roll takes you to an edge and you try to move/crouch/jump/shield as it ends you will slip off)

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 4
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-22 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless you WALK forward, or if an attack is timed on that exact frame)

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 4
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-24 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless you WALK forward, or if an attack is timed on that exact frame)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Ness:ness2:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 13.2 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 13.2 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 20-21
(Behind), 24-25 (Front)
Invincible: 1-25

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Behind), 25-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 7
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-21

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 13
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-22

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 11.8 ft
Invincible: 1-19
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Peach:peach:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 8
Distance: 15.4 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 15.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 17-19
(Behind), 25-27 (Front)
Invincible: 1-27

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 17-18
(Front), 25-26 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 13 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 13 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 13 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 3
Distance: 14.2 ft
Invincible: 1-19
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Pichu:pichu:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 8.4 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 8.4 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 13-14
(Behind), 18-19 (Front)
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 50
Hit: 17-18
(Front), 23-24 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-24

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 6.2 ft
Invincible: 1-14

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 36
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 4.6 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 6 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 4.2 ft
Invincible: 1-19
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Pikachu:pikachu2:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 12 ft
Invincible: 1-20 (If the roll takes you to an edge and you try to move/crouch/jump/shield as it ends you will slip off)

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 13.2 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 13-14
(Behind), 18-19 (Front)
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 50
Hit: 17-18
(Front), 23-24 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-24

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-14

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 36
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 8.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 10.8 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 7.8 ft
Invincible: 1-19
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Roy:roymelee:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 14.2 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 8
Distance: 14.4 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 20-23
(Behind), 30-31 (Front)
Invincible: 1-31

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 22-23
(Front), 27-28 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-28

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 6-19

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 10.6 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 9.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 13
Distance: 10.6 ft
Invincible: 1-19
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Samus:samus2:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 11.8 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 11.8 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Both Sides), 28-29 (Both Sides)
Invincible: 1-29

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Behind), 25-27 (Front)
Invincible: 1-27

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 10 ft
Invincible: 1-14

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 10 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 10 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 15
Distance: 10 ft
Invincible: 1-22
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Sheik:shiek:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 16.2 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 16.2 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 17-19
(Front), 24-26 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 16-17
(Behind), 20-21 (Front)
Invincible: 1-21

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 7
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-22 (If the roll takes you to an edge you will slip off unless you WALK forward, or if an attack is timed on that exact frame)

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 4
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Yoshi:yoshi2:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 14.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 14.4 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 13-14
(Front), 19-20 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 14-15
(Front), 25-26 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 4
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19 (If the roll takes you to an edge and you try to move/crouch/jump/shield as it ends you will slip off)

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 7
Distance: 12 ft
Invincible: 1-14

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 5
Distance: 12.2 ft
Invincible: 1-24

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-29
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Young Link :toonlink:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 12.8 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 12.8 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20
(Front), 28-29 (Behind)
Invincible: 1-29

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 15-16
(Behind), 24-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 11 ft
Invincible: 1-24

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 8
Distance: 11 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 11.4 ft
Invincible: 1-31

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 11.2 ft
Invincible: 1-25
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Zelda:zelda:

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 8
Distance: 16.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 16.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 17-19
(Behind), 25-27 (Front)
Invincible: 1-27

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 17-18 (Front), 25-26
(Behind)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 14.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 14.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 14.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 3
Distance: 15.6 ft
Invincible: 1-19
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,024
Location
Orlando Florida
#3
Magus is too sexy.

This needs to go in the everything thread.

So all throws have 8 frames of invincibility at the start of the throw. This will probably be ridiculously useful in teams.

Just one more question I need to ask. Do invincible characters go through hitstun when they get "hit" and does their invincibility extend accordingly? I ask because I wanted to know what would happen if I time a throw so that I'm invincible when an attack is hitting both of us (like if Jigglypuff rests the opponent while I'm throwing them). Jigglypuff's rest hitbox would extend for 10 additional frames (I think that's how long it was anyway) due to the opponent being in hitstun, but would my invincibility extend by 10 frames as well?
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
#5
It's green type invincibility (this is also the invincibility type you get when respawning). If you get hit while g-invincible you do not go into hitlag, but the opponent does. The hitbox counts as hitting you so the same one wouldn't be able to hit you again afterwards.

Blue on the other hand like on dodges, shines, rest, ledge invincibility, etc, has neither char go into hitlag, and the attack does not count as hitting you. If the hitbox were to come out ontop of them near the end of b-invincibility and stay out until they come out of it it will hit them the moment they do.
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
#8
Something interesting I just realized is that the reason Bowser's d-throw doesn't damage Jiggs/G&W (are there any others? maybe Kirby/Fox in PAL?) is because of the speed up on the throw animation due to their weight.

For them it gets to frame 46.67 in the animation, and then on the next game frame it skips frame 47 of the animation entirely which is the one with the hitbox, and goes directly into 48.33 of the animation without ever hitting them.
 

ZoSo

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 7, 2003
Messages
2,885
Location
Melee
#13
After I sent you that last PM I figured that would be the end of it.

I underestimated you, clearly.

<3
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
3,190
Location
Göteborg, Sweden
#14
Magus, I tested the Bowser Dthrow thing for PAL:
The length of Bowser Dthrow animation will always be the same in PAL, regardless of the weight of the char bowser is throwing (unlike how it works in NTSC).

I tested this simply through taking 3 bowsers and one kirby to FD, grabbing Kirby with bowser #1 and grabbing bowser #3 with bowser #2. Then I paused the game, held Down and Shield on the controllers for Bowser #1 and #2, then I unpaused. So Bowser #1 and #2 started their throw on the same frame, and if one of them was faster they'd get their shield up first. But they didn't, they got their shield at the same time!

And as a result, Bowsers Dthrow will always do damage to the opponent in PAL (I tested this aswell, it does 12% to kirby, fox, g&w and puff like it does to all other chars)

Guess Nintendo changed this between the versions so that Bowsers dthrow would do damage to everyone.


BTW: Does anybody with PAL and AR want to make a quick test if the weight change thingymangs between the PAL and NTSC versions that Magus posted are fully correct?
 

Teczer0

Research Assistant
Premium
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
16,863
Location
Convex Cone, Positive Orthant
#19
Magus420 said:
Tech-Ceiling

Total:
26 - [Everyone Else]
25 - Donkey Kong, Jigglypuff, Kirby

Invincible:
1-18 - Bowser
1-17 - Dr Mario, Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Luigi, Mario, Mewtwo, Ness, Sheik
1-15 - Donkey Kong
1-14 - Falco, Fox, Yoshi
1-13 - Link, Marth, Pichu, Pikachu, Roy, Young Link
1-12 - Samus
1-11 - Captain Falcon, Ganondorf
NONE - Peach, Zelda
LMAO, Peach and Zelda don't feel like being invincible for ceiling techs?

WTF LOL

Magus you're too amazing =D
 

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
7,230
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
#23
so the only trends i noticed were that forward techs seemed to have faster AT's and more distance than backward techs. this seems to make it easier to react to techchases cuz if they DI away and tech away they have to use the slower away tech. seems like DI to the other side and tech roll away so u can use forward roll is the quickest combo
 

SPAWN

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
3,121
Location
CT
#25
Magus is tooo good.

On what frame can Fox and Falco do a shine after they do a neutral tech?

...It's extremely quick and broken lol.
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
1,846
Location
Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
#26
Magus is tooo good.

On what frame can Fox and Falco do a shine after they do a neutral tech?

...It's extremely quick and broken lol.
Tech-Neutral

Total: 26
Invincible:
1-20 - [Everyone Else]
1-24 - Pichu, Pikachu

Since it finishes on frame 26, I'll assume that they can do a shine on frame 27, leaving them open for exactly 6 frames [21-26; 27 is already invincible because of shine], which is 1/10 of a second.

You better have hella good timing if you wanna punish that. Or you could outspace them and hit them with something bigger than the shine. Like Marth's sword. Or his hand, for that matter.

Did I do it right?
 

SPAWN

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
3,121
Location
CT
#27
****, that's why it is so hard to tech chase fox/falco when they tech in place. Assuming you did it right, which I think you did. I wonder if Sheik can space her grab to get fox/falco's shine. T_T
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
#31
Awesome compilation. I'll be sure to watch out for those five frames of vulnerability for Marth =P

Hey Magus, does the hitstun formula apply for everything or is it just throws? And if it is just throws, is there a formula for hitstun? Like... hitstun, not hitlag.
 

Wind Owl

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
1,856
Location
Suburbs of Philadelphia, PA
#36
I don't know frame data for Falco's Shine, but Fox's shine is active on the first frame and can be jump canceled after frame 3.

Falco can either let go of B and wait for his Shine to end, which takes a while, or jump cancel his Shine.
Falco's jump has startup lag of 6 frames (he's airborne on frame 7)
Assuming Falco has at least 2 frames of lag before he can jump again, like Fox does, he can be in the air after a Shine in 10 frames total.

Sheik's grab starts up in 7 frames and extends beyond her idle hurtbox. It can also grab Falco out of the air for a couple frames even after he's started jumping (or wavedashing backwards).

So, in theory, Sheik can bait the Shine and if she starts her grab within a couple frames of its active frame, she can grab him.

I would test myself, but I don't have a GameCube.

EDIT: WTF is up with Sheik's dashgrab having TWO grab boxes? lol
 
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#37
A lot of characters have that second hitbox behind them on the dash grab.

I don't really get what you're trying to say though. If sheik is close enough to grab Fox/Falco, she gets hit by the shine.

You really have only a few options here:

1) Grab them while they're still doing the tech but have lost their invincibility.
2) Outspace them. Just grab after the tech and theoretically, the shine won't hit you, but you will grab them after they lose invincibility from the shine. NOT SURE IF THIS IS POSSIBLE
3) Time a dash grab so that you slide into range after the shine hitbox is gone but before they can possibly do anything else. Basically, you're standing out of range of the shine and your grab. They tech and subsequently shine. You start moving so that right after the shine hitbox is gone, you're close enough to grab them and do so.

All of those are hard, but the first one is probably the easisest since it's a matter of rather simple timing that can be learned.
 

Wind Owl

Smash Lord
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#38
I'm trying to say, "tech in place shine" is a separate and punishable wakeup option. If you expect "tech in place" and try to punish that, of course you're going to get hit by the shine. But if you wait for the shine, you can punish it.

Basically everything you said in your last post.
 

SPAWN

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#39
If you wait for the shine, they can just do something right after, like jc grab out of shine, lol. Getting grabbed by Fox is not cool.
 

Magus420

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#40
Hey Magus, does the hitstun formula apply for everything or is it just throws? And if it is just throws, is there a formula for hitstun? Like... hitstun, not hitlag.
Everything.


As for the grab thing, you generally don't put yourself out that far until it actually grabs, so if you're spaced most characters won't get hit unless the 2 moves hit at the same time. So, if you were to begin the grab 4 frames before they shine, the shine will hit for 1 frame before you are within its range, then before they can jump out of it you reach in and grab them. It's really easy to outspace Falco's since his has crap range and is part of what makes his shine so shieldgrabbable using shield DI.


If you have very good reaction time and enough practice, you can react to there being no horizontal movement (tech-roll) or green flash (no tech) by 9 frames into their landing (his tech-roll forward doesn't really show itself through movement until frame 9, which is the later of the 2 tech-rolls). Add your time to react to there being neither of these 2 things by frame 9 onto that (let's say 10-15), and then the time to grab, and you can see how it really comes down to reaction time.

If they time a shine perfectly you'll get them with 10, but not any slower than that. You might be able to get them with 11-12 if their timing isn't perfect. Again though, with some spacing you can still get them later than that as long as the 2 moves don't come out at the same time and you're not like Pikachu or something and trying to grab them with cute little T-Rex arms.

It should be noted that this is a little different kind of reaction time than what those "click the dot when it changes" type tests tell you, though they can give you a general idea.


***An important thing to know is that for tech/getup rolls that have late movements it may be better to identify those ones by the startup animation itself if it is unique to the others rather than the movement from it. For example, Jiggs/Kirby have a really noticeable spin on some of their getups that happens well before they actually move by a noticeable amount. Others point their legs in the direction they are tech-rolling very early on before moving in that direction.

In the case with Fox/Falco, a noticeable part of their tech in place is that they point one leg in each direction at the startup, which may be sooner noticed/more effective for that getup than looking for the others not happening to show a tech in place. In their cases, the tech in place is essentially 'shorter' than others as far as grabs are concerned since they have a 1 frame invincibility move on getup while others would be grabbable for an extra 2 frames or more. If their name isn't Bowser or Zelda who have slower startup on them, a buffered sidestep is vulnerable to grab for 2 frames longer than Fox/Falco with a perfectly timed shine (1F Shield, 1F Startup, and then Invincible).
 
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