Deleted

[Megavitamins]

Marth cannot chaingrab with down throw.

 

[Conda]

To those saying "don't get grabbed", lol.

And the IC chaingrab requires skill to pull off. Marth's release chaingrab infinite up to 80-100% on Ness is ridiculous.

Ness users are considering dropping Ness as a tourney character. We all know how many Marth users there are, and since nobody wants to give a darn about the Ness-breaking chaingrab, then we basically have to jump ship.

 

[Ulevo]

Marth cannot chaingrab with down throw.

I did not post that he could, if that is what you're implying. He can however Release Grab Ness and Lucas, which is totally different.

To those saying "don't get grabbed", lol.

And the IC chaingrab requires skill to pull off. Marth's release chaingrab infinite up to 80-100% on Ness is ridiculous.

Ness users are considering dropping Ness as a tourney character. We all know how many Marth users there are, and since nobody wants to give a darn about the Ness-breaking chaingrab, then we basically have to jump ship.

Most experienced players main more than one character. I'm quite sure if need be, a player can use another character other than Lucas and Ness when facing a Marth. Not to mention that Fox was top tier in Melee, and yet Marth could Chain Grab him silly and follow it up with a Tipped FSmash, but Fox still managed. It's not that different. It's unfair, but it's bearable, and limited to two specific characters who can likely deal with it in one way or another.

 

[Conda]

Point made. I wanted someone to come outright and discuss it.
I take the most extreme position on these matters in order to make people react and respond to the ideas I present.

 

[GBcrazy]

Most experienced players main more than one character. I'm quite sure if need be, a player can use another character other than Lucas and Ness when facing a Marth. Not to mention that Fox was top tier in Melee, and yet Marth could Chain Grab him silly and follow it up with a Tipped FSmash, but Fox still managed. It's not that different. It's unfair, but it's bearable, and limited to two specific characters who can likely deal with it in one way or another.

Marth's chain grab in fox was up to 60% , not 100%

 

[Ulevo]

Marth's chain grab in fox was up to 60% , not 100%

Near an edge in Melee, it may not have mattered. 60% was often enough to Tip Fox to his doom. Characters also died at lower percents in Melee. I'm not saying this to justify Marth's ability to Grab Ness and Lucas infinitely, I'm just saying it isn't drastically different.

 

[Flayl]

Wario can chain grab DK (only one i've tested so far) with his d-throw, at least it's working against level 9 CPUs set to run.

 

[Ulevo]

Warrios Down Throw does not work, trust me in on this. CPUs are a BAD test subject.

 

[Shibby]

Just don't get grabbed.

This has to be the thousandth time I read this ... stupidest shit ever ... good luck on never getting grabbed in brawl in competitive play ... (not like it is easier than in Melee getting grabbed *sarcasm*)

 

[Ulevo]

This has to be the thousandth time I read this ... stupidest shit ever ... good luck on never getting grabbed in brawl in competitive play ... (not like it is easier than in Melee getting grabbed *sarcasm*)

People had to cope with this against Ice Climbers in Melee. This is no exception. I'm not here to say these grabs are fair, I'm here to inform they are possible. That still doesn't mean there are not measures to dealing with this.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Can Yoshi really release grab all those characters infinitely, or do some of them require you to move foward (eventually going to the end of the stage?


Also, Marth can up B out of the DDD chaingrab. Sonic may be able to as well, but I haven't tested it with him. Pit may be able to push DDD away with his up B (his up B does that on the startup frames) and prevent DDD from getting in range to grab him (have not tested this. Note, disregard this if Pit hit's the ground while being chainthrown by DDD, as the up B has significant startup lag on the ground.)

 

[Ulevo]

Can Yoshi really release grab all those characters infinitely, or do some of them require you to move foward (eventually going to the end of the stage?


Also, Marth can up B out of the DDD chaingrab. Sonic may be able to as well, but I haven't tested it with him. Pit may be able to push DDD away with his up B (his up B does that on the startup frames) and prevent DDD from getting in range to grab him (have not tested this. Note, disregard this if Pit hit's the ground while being chainthrown by DDD, as the up B has significant startup lag on the ground.)

Yoshi can only Release Grab Wario infinitely I think, as Yoshi isn't required to move. In theory they are infinite, and have no definite percent that they stop at, so that is why I posted them as infinites.

Thanks for the insight on D3 too. I haven't been updating much because I've been busy with work and other things. It's also very time consuming. I'm trying to figure out how to properly construct a way to show off the percents that a character can be thrown to, as it isn't as simple as Melee was, or in Training mode, since decay effects the throws.

 

[matthewmilad]

Wario's D-Throw on Heaviez is a chain grab. Nuff Said.

 

[Browny]

Sonic can escape every chain grab with his spring except Lucarios force palm chain grab. in the same way marth does, sonic has invincibility frames, except he isnt fodder for another CG when he lands again lol

 

[Smasher89]

Snakes Dthrow is infinite close too the edge, don´t remember what it was called/which chars it works on, but there´s vids on it on youtube...

 

[Ulevo]

Wario's D-Throw on Heaviez is a chain grab. Nuff Said.

Tested, debunked. Tested again, flunked again.

No.

Sonic can escape every chain grab with his spring except Lucarios force palm chain grab. in the same way marth does, sonic has invincibility frames, except he isnt fodder for another CG when he lands again lol

Sonics Spring is good, but not that good. He certainly can't escape Falcos CG at first.

Snakes Dthrow is infinite close too the edge, don´t remember what it was called/which chars it works on, but there´s vids on it on youtube...

That was de-confirmed a little while ago. You are able to Fast Fall and Air Dodge out of it.

 

[Yeniths]

Jeeze, i seriously want to see the infinate release grab get banned!

 

[Dark Sonic]

Sonic can escape every chain grab with his spring except Lucarios force palm chain grab. in the same way marth does, sonic has invincibility frames, except he isnt fodder for another CG when he lands again lol

But Sonic also suffers more stun than Marth does, and does not go as far when thrown. Notice that Sonic can be release grabbed by Yoshi, while Marth can't. That's why I wanted to wait until I tested it before I said anything was for sure.


Also, the entire point of using Marth's up B to escape from the chaingrab is to hit them with the up B. If they're out of range for the up B then they are also out of range for the chaingrab, so you don't have to do anything.

Also, you should test to see if the characters that formerly could release grab infinite Ness (before we found you can DI out of it) can still chaingrab him. Lucas as well (though I doubt it'll work on Lucas, but try it anyway).

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I did some testing with how Yoshi's chaingrab works against walls. Indeed on Shadow Moses Island it's a forced infinite against everyone he can chain grab as well as against Captain Falcon (maybe a few others as well, but I wasn't able to easily find someone else, and it isn't worth testing the limits for a stage that will almost certainly be banned anyway), but the other wall stages are more interesting.

On Corneria, Ganondorf, Wario, and Sonic will automatically grab the ledge when thrown into the fin. The other characters who can be chain grabbed will be caught in an infinite combo. However, the presence of the wall allows Captain Falcon to be caught in an infinite combo against Yoshi whereas he could not be chained ordinarily; I have tested the whole cast, and only Captain Falcon is added to the list here.

On Onett, the walls are mostly too short for this to work on, and the only wall that's tall enough to seem like it would offer a regrab (the left side of the left house) allows the ledge to be automatically grabbed by seemingly everyone.

On Green Greens, a few of the characters can be infinited against the sides of the blocks as long as the blocks are at maximum height and they are on the far side (i.e. nearest to the edge of the stage). Only Squirtle, Falco, Diddy Kong, and Lucas seem susceptible to this. Also, since there is no ledge to grab, being near these blocks does not give Wario an escape opportunity like the walls on Onett and Corneria did. The wind also seems to mess it up so infinite is a misleading term; I'm unsure as per whether Yoshi can counteract the wind to keep it up.

I think that covers every stage with a substantial wall other than the moving ones or the ridiculously huge and obviously banned ones (most of the walls on moving stages are too short to be useful anyway).

EDIT: I just did a quick check on the Bridge of Eldin with Ganondorf, and unsurprisingly, Yoshi can lead him right off the edge with this. Logically, this should work against everyone on the standard Yoshi chain grab list except Wario who is caught infinitely in place.

 

[Yuna]

Yoshi can only Release Grab Wario infinitely I think, as Yoshi isn't required to move. In theory they are infinite, and have no definite percent that they stop at, so that is why I posted them as infinites.

Thanks for the insight on D3 too. I haven't been updating much because I've been busy with work and other things. It's also very time consuming. I'm trying to figure out how to properly construct a way to show off the percents that a character can be thrown to, as it isn't as simple as Melee was, or in Training mode, since decay effects the throws.

It's only an infinite if it never ends. On anyone who isn't Wario, Yoshi will eventually run out of stage.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

It makes me wonder if you can Infinite grab w/ Yoshi on Corneria...

 

[Ulevo]

It's only an infinite if it never ends. On anyone who isn't Wario, Yoshi will eventually run out of stage.

I understand that, I simply just put a ∞ to signify that Yoshi's grab doesn't stop at a given percent.

 

[Levitas]

Is yoshi's really true? That would make it faster than a lot of other grabs (because wario has less stun than Ness/Lucas). Additionally, the Lucas boards aren't aware of this (Nessbounder claims that it's always possible to jump break from yoshi, and yes, he's updated his research), and if anyone would know about break grab lists, it'd be the lucas/ness boards.

if it works, that's great for yoshi. Being a counter to metaknight AND wario would make him extremely useful in a tournament environment.

Edit: Also testing break DI against Yoshi's important. Not very many people know about break DI, and it's vital for those who are being grab-break chained.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

You always jump break Yoshi's grab; he gets a regrab on those characters anyway. Notice that Ness is not on Yoshi's list; the characters he gets are mostly the ones with short jump breaks (note that Fox, Wolf, and Sheik have jump breaks that are too short). He must do a running grab to get everyone but Wario. For Wario, he must slightly delay his grab attempt, but it's still a forced grab either way (Wario has a really weird jump break). I do not believe you can break DI when doing a jump break; it seems impossible with Wario at least (he can only take any action, including DI, if Yoshi messes up his regrab).

About Corneria and doing infinites with Yoshi, I answered that question two posts above the inquiry, and I can guarantee the accuracy of that research. Yes, Yoshi gets infinites on several characters there. I even covered Onett and Green Greens; I was sure to hit all the non-moving, non-obviously banned wall stages.

I think Yoshi is suddenly a much more viable character now as his punishment out of a grab is pretty substantial against a large number of characters (some of them, like Meta Knight, are characters who are very good to have this sort of thing against). I wonder how many Yoshi mains know about this.

 

[Levitas]

I saw no mention of it on the yoshi boards.

 

[Fire!]

I dont main yoshi, but I have noticd this

 

[Fire!]

Very useful

Thanks

EDIT: Double Post

 

[EdreesesPieces]

There are so many matchups in the game, has ever release grab been tested on every matchup? I really wonder how many characters have infinites on others...

 

[Ulevo]

There are so many matchups in the game, has ever release grab been tested on every matchup? I really wonder how many characters have infinites on others...

I was going to test that myself, but I got lazy.

On another note, Release Grabs are amazing for KOs. Marth Grabbing someone at high percent, knocking them around, releasing them and hitting them with a Dolphin Slash for a KO is just too good.

 

[mlgc4]

forgot toon link release grab work the same as marth to ness and lucas.
=]

 

[Warlock*G]

Right, so the ******** dinosaur got an infinite on Wawawa. Awww.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Woah chill out. Biased much?

 

[Mikezor]

DK can chain grab using the cargo -> let opponent escape -> grab -> cargo method (I believe anyway).

 

[Kenrawr]

DK can chain grab using the cargo -> let opponent escape -> grab -> cargo method (I believe anyway).

I was getting released grab by this last night T_T

The DK player did it on accident, though. When we realized it was effective he put it to work :3
Didn't spend enough time to see if it was escapable >_>

 

[Gindler]

Yes all of us Yoshi mains already know about the CGs he's capable of, we just don't really post it because...well I don't know why, we're really more concerned about his pivot grab which has a longer grab animation and takes the lag down to almost nothing. Oh and against Falco I found that with yoshi it is hard for falcos to chaingrab me cause right as I land I jab and it works every time actually, yoshi jab seems to be fast and has decent range for a jab so that might be what's happeneing, and D3 I usually do a well time spot dodge. Maybe these players are screwing up but with falco it's worked on a good number of smashers and only played that one d3 as yoshi.

 

[Ulevo]

I was getting released grab by this last night T_T

The DK player did it on accident, though. When we realized it was effective he put it to work :3
Didn't spend enough time to see if it was escapable >_>

If you're referring to the Release Grab on Ness and Lucas, it doesn't work.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

Nicely made list! I can't believe there was an oversight like release grabs by the developers.

 

[Ulevo]

Nicely made list! I can't believe there was an oversight like release grabs by the developers.

Why thank you.

I've updated the characters that can be grabbed by Lucarios Forward B.

 

[Cecilanius]

For the people who say Snake's chain grab doesn't work...

It might seem that you can get out of the chain grab by just doing up+b but some factors could help this not happen.

Every character needs to be at a certain distance from the edge. In my video, I was just doing the chain grab off the edge to make it a little easier to do. I was nervous during the recording... it messed me up a lot.

Sometimes, you don't even need to be directly over the edge. For example, If you down grab Olimar near an edge, you can still chain grab him even though he isn't falling off. His feet just need to be a little over the edge.

Another factor that helps the chain grab is the timing. The slower you do the grab, the more easily the opponent can use an attack. If you can get the grabs off as quickly as possible, the opponent will have a significantly harder time using an attack.

 

[Kenrawr]

If you're referring to the Release Grab on Ness and Lucas, it doesn't work.

No I wasn't Ness/Lucas. I know all their release grabs -.-

It was maybe Marth/Pika[doubt it]/Samus/Snake :x
I don't have someone around me to test it with T_T