Dedede Tactical Strategy 20 - IC's Desynchs

[Xyless]

The Best thing about this match up though is that peach only has one true good kill move on DDD, her F-air.

Not so. Dedede is quite possibly the easiest hitbox for Peach's dreaded up smash. Playing against quite a few more Dededes lately in tournaments has actually taught me to use my up smash more liberally. But yes, other than up smash, fair is her best killing chance, especially when not staled.

Be aware though, it isn't a bad strategy for Peach to bait Waddles to refresh her kill moves with by "camping" with turnips.

I honestly never thought to do that.

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

From a low float, it isn't too hard for Peach to land and shield the ftilt if you rely too much on it. Especially if she has a turnip in hand at the time, she can then proceed to toss the turnip or glide toss it directly into you, so use ftilt with extreme caution if she has one.

Bair... well, it's a legit move to keep out a lot of characters. XD If you use it while she gets closer to the ground, though, beware an fsmash or, worse, an usmash.

 

[Bwa]

Sweetspotted Nair can kill us too when Fair is staled.

 

[T3h Albino]

I love this matchup.
A lot of the things peach can do on the ground you can shield grab.
I see a lot of dedede's try to grab when Peach is pressuring with dair....No
Just Bair OOS. Bair beats most, if not all of Peach's moveset. It's pretty safe to say if a peach is pressuring you your 3 best options lie between Grab,Ftilt, and Bair.
Also, as previously stated you outcamp her.

 

[Fogo]

If peach drops nair out of dair it's unpunishable for the most part. Super annoying >_>

Check any one of these out, basically 1, 3 & 5 are what you should do and 2 & 4 are what you shouldn't lol

Fogo(D3) vs. Snap(Peach) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ztp_DAVW0

Fogo(D3) vs. Snap(Peach) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcg7a...eature=related

Fogo(D3) vs. Snap(Peach) 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9th3...eature=related

Fogo(D3) vs. Snap(Peach) 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vckiu...e=channel_page

Fogo(D3) vs. Snap(Peach) 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKrCd...e=channel_page

 

[Commander_Beef]

It's just about timing a simple back air...or dodge roll backwards, and for the turnips, just jump. That's all there is to avoiding her pressuring I think.
I don't really remember the last time I ever got pressured by Peach.

 

[∫unk]

i wouldnt throw waddle dees because it refreshes her lack-of-KO moveset... particularly f-air

i just power block turnips don't let those hit you it refreshes her moveset and it combo's into other stuff

then space b-air

roll away in trouble its not like peach's fast and can chase you looool (ex. getting your shield d-air'd... don't just sit there and get shield poked MOVE)

that's my experience from playing metatitan sky fierce praxis and maybe bone i forget

 

[Fogo]

Yeah you guys got it basically. I beat kos-mos last time we played and that's basically what i did. I believe atomsk said the same thing when they played. Next subject?

 

[Jupz]

Ok nice summary guys.

Any ideas?

 

[smasher01]

If peach drops nair out of dair it's unpunishable for the most part. Super annoying >_>

Check any one of these out, basically 1, 3 & 5 are what you should do and 2 & 4 are what you shouldn't lol

Fogo(D3) vs. Snap(Peach) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ztp_DAVW0

Fogo(D3) vs. Snap(Peach) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcg7a...eature=related

Fogo(D3) vs. Snap(Peach) 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9th3...eature=related

Fogo(D3) vs. Snap(Peach) 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vckiu...e=channel_page

Fogo(D3) vs. Snap(Peach) 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKrCd...e=channel_page

You can shield grab the drop n-air easy, (predict the drop n-air).
The matchup is just a big Mindgame lol

I try to predict the float than f-air her in the face lol.
If your trapped in her d-air try to u-tilt after the last hit of her d-air it works for me sometimes,
If that does not work roll away but dont be predictable on that cuz some peaches wait for that roll then rap you.

ps. what i just said i not a evaluation on your matches.

 

[TlocCPU]

You can shield grab the drop nair easy.

When Edrees does it, he spaces it so he lands behind me and I can't shield grab it

 

[smasher01]

Thats cool im guna tell my brother about that.
But are you shur you cant turn around out of shield real fast than grab him

 

[CRASHiC]

There is a OOS instant pivot grab.

 

[Fogo]

When Edrees does it, he spaces it so he lands behind me and I can't shield grab it

What he said.

No smart peach (or person) wants to be in front of DDD's shield.

@Crash:

1 (Pivot) + 5 (Grab) = 6 frames.

0 (Peach's lag) + 2 (Jab) = 2 frames.

2 < 6 so we get hit if we move. Get what i'm saying?

 

[choknater]

IMO if there will be jabs, block them and shield grab that lol

takes a bit of patience and a lot of peach experience but it works

sometimes there are no jabs so be careful, they could go mango on you and space an aerial, no jabs, wait for shield grab, punish

 

[Jupz]

Any ideas for next discussion?


edit - how about Metaknights Uair combos, juggle game, and general low percent combos?

 

[Jupz]

Bump! I'm gonna get the last few summaries done now.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Move to TL camping. Just lost to one doing it.

 

[Gates]

Didn't we go over that already?

 

[Commander_Beef]

Yes we did. No need for discussion...Jupz's summary explains it.

The best way to get through Toon Links projectiles is to simply powershield your way through the boomerangs and arrows. These are fairly predictable and easy to powershield. However, beware of arrow cancels when he lands (he can do them after a short hop Nair/Fair/Bair/Arrow/Bomb Throw/Pull) and watch out for the boomerang as it comes back to Toon Link. Let bombs hit your shield and attempt to jump and catch them as they fly upwards with either an airdodge, a Z catch, or an aerial (preferably Dair or Bair). Alternatively you can spotdodge it. Zair is a pain and is fairly unpunishable if he uses it close to the ground and it is spaced well as it cancels laglessly on the ground. Grab him if he misspaces it or Ftilt him if he uses it too early.

Ftilt, Jab and Dtilt can cancel out all of Toon Links projectiles but aren't as fast as powershielding. However Bair is a great option in the air if you think he will punish your airdodge. Dair can catch bombs or blow them up without them hitting you. Throwing out waddle dees/doos on the field are great as they will disrupt his projectiles and help clear the way. They are more useful then it looks so getting them on the field is a good idea, but don't throw one if Toon Link is close to you. They are very effective at stopping arrow cancels. Watch out for grabs or Usmashes (at kill percentages) after a canceled Zair. Air camping works fairly well but don't be predictable coming down.

 

[GreenFox]

I was playing a match of brawl and this happened its so weird d? I couldn't reproduce it but It has to do something with grabbing on the edge and the stage changing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DvsQYQ6dF8



I dont know if its character specific or what but if you could reproduce this and it not be so situational it could be deadly sorry if this has already been found somewhere but I havent ran across it ever reading up on brawls metagame.

 

[dawall250]

This happenned due to the pushback of the dsmash that falco used. Things like that happen when you shieldgrab attacks on the edge. Normally, the person that's been grabbed is ground released onto the stage while the grabber just sorta air releases off the stage, but be it due to the tilt of lylat, or a pulling effect due to the grab, falco was ground released off stage so he went straight down. hope that helps. (however, this i do believe belongs in the q&a thread, so use that next time)

also, to be more relevant to the thread, how about this as for an idea for a general tip sand strategy. i''d like to know how to sdi multi hit attacks better. ddd's more vulnerable to this due to his size and weight, so knowing proper sdi on some more frequent multihit moves would be a plus. like most people know to sdi up pika's dsmash, but what about diddy's fsmash, or snake's nair/dair?

 

[GreenFox]

but I didnt ask a question I was saying if you could reproduce this it could be ways to gimp characters with bad recoveries.

 

[dawall250]

well, it's quite situational, as it requires you to shieldgrab someone attacking your shield on the edge, in a stage that'll somehow allow you to ground release them off stage, which is what I think happened. If I'm wrong about that, well then it'd be pretty interesting to see where to take it, but imo, very situational.

 

[GreenFox]

I know it looks 100% situational but I'm just wondering what exactly causes it you might be absolutely right it could be only on that stage though and see if this could possibly go anywhere which I doubt it but it definitely deserves to be looked at

 

[Jupz]

Thats actually a good idea Dawall. SDIing moves discussion go!!

things to talk about -

diddys fsmash
pikas dsmash
robs dsmash
certain kirby combos
tornado
g&w bair
snakes nair
warios dair
falcos nair
dedede's dair
marths DB down
chaingrabs (pikachu, falco)
pits fsmash
zeldas smashes
shieks tilt locks

and anything else.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

pits fsmash is listed twice

 

[Jupz]

woops thanks seib

 

[AtotheZ]

Pit uair/nair
Metaknight bair/fair
Tilt locks
Snake nair/dair
Pikachu bair/fair
Dedede upair
Jab locks
Jab combos for most of the cast
DK up b
MK ftilt

IDK

 

[Jupz]

Yeah those are some other good moves AtotheZ. Well I guess I'll start with snakes Nair

If he's falling, I like to DI up and out. If hes rising, DI down and out. You can also DI through him if you're close to his body.

anyway i g2g till this afternoon (im at school)

 

[dawall250]

correct me if i'm wrong about any of these, this is what i've picked up browsing the boards, and my memory could be a bit iffy.

diddy's fsmash (and i feel like the same for pit's fsmash too): up and toward if near diddy, up and away if further away
pika's dsmash: up by itself works for me, some people say up and away, dunno if the away helps thaaat much
rob's dsmash: it should work like pika's, but i can't sdi fast enough to get out usually, so i guess up and away is better here?
kirby's combos: in the utilting, don't try to airdodge back into the ground or attack, just jump up to get away. for most of his combos otherwise i do believe sdiing away and jumping/airdodging generally does the trick
tornado: m2k's old advice of up and away and mashing airdodge, which practically never works for me =/. if he's moving left in the tornado, sdiing up and right has worked for me on occasion.
snake's nair: sdiing up works for me if he's caught me in it while he's falling, but i haven't been able to di out if he catches me with a rising nair
multihit jabs: i get the impression that unlike a lot of other characters that can punish multihit jabs bying sdiing into the opponent, doesn't work so well with ddd. sdi away to minimize damage.
falco's chaingrab to spike: sdi into stage and tech? apparently quite possible, but i haven't really been able to do it.
zelda's fsmash: sdi away
zelda's usmash: sdi up and away? never been able to get out of this one on purpose.
marth's db down: never tried this but, sdi away when hit on pretty much at the tippers, but sdi close, if hit closer, so you can punish the ending? not sure if this would work.

That's all i seem to remember off the top of my head, and again, correct me if you have better sdiing abilities. also, i'm curious if one could sdi down for some of these (marth's db down, snake's nair...) hit the ground and tech and punish? that'd be crazy pro though.

other things to sdi that i'd like to know about
mk's fair, bair
snake's dair (well i guess if you're hit on the ground and stay there you're screwed? no sdi on the ground if i remember properly)

 

[AtotheZ]

I'm thinking of making a nice solo thread for this, escaping moves with smash DI and how to do so. How does that sound?

 

[dawall250]

that would be awesome, i don't believe there is any decently comprehensive thread on that anywhere, i just have to go by random guessing sometimes, which usually doesn't work.

 

[Commander_Beef]

If I remember correctly, I think it's harder for big targets/heavyweights to smash DI out of multiple hit moves.
I don't think Diddy Kong's forward smash can techincally be smash DI'd up and then near him during the smash, the move may be too fast for both directions of smash DI to work.
Pikachu's down smash is one of the easiest moves to DI out of...any direction will work.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

If you're caught in G&W's bair SDI up and a little bit towards him, then right as you get out bair him.

 

[CRASHiC]

You can DI out of Lucario's down air and then bair it.

 

[Jupz]

Which way do you DI?

 

[Commander_Beef]

Which way do you DI?

Whichever way is appropriate so that your back is facing Lucario, that's where you back air.
I don't think DI'ing out of his down air is possible though, it's too fast of a multiple hit move.

 

[Hyesz]

WTF, this isn't a chaingrab.

 

[CRASHiC]

Whichever way is appropriate so that your back is facing Lucario, that's where you back air.
I don't think DI'ing out of his down air is possible though, it's too fast of a multiple hit move.

You can. There was a big debate about it a while back on the Lucario boards. Finally someone uploaded a video in match of it being done. Can't find the video right now though :/
Must be both DIed and SDIed perfectly.