Darkmusician's Brawl Vids~SBHMXXI~(06/11/2010)

[Wildfire393]

Hey, Darkmuscian. In addition to that Naryu's Hog trick, I thought of another move to try. It's usefulness might be limited, but it's worth seeing if it works. So here's what it is: Farore's Wind has a little spin at the begining, which deals a small amount of damage. It also has a ltitle explosion at the end, correct? So theoretically, if you were to use it on the ground, straight down (or down and a little to the side), the two hits would be right on top of eachother and right after one another. Say an opponent was right on top of you (or practically), attacking your shield. You could use Farore's Wind out of the shield and punish the opponent with both hits.

Of course, the lag on the attack might be to high to do this. But might be worth checking out as a surprising thing to try.

 

[Darkmusician]

Hey, Darkmuscian. In addition to that Naryu's Hog trick, I thought of another move to try. It's usefulness might be limited, but it's worth seeing if it works. So here's what it is: Farore's Wind has a little spin at the begining, which deals a small amount of damage. It also has a ltitle explosion at the end, correct? So theoretically, if you were to use it on the ground, straight down (or down and a little to the side), the two hits would be right on top of eachother and right after one another. Say an opponent was right on top of you (or practically), attacking your shield. You could use Farore's Wind out of the shield and punish the opponent with both hits.

Of course, the lag on the attack might be to high to do this. But might be worth checking out as a surprising thing to try.

I will give this a try. Thanks for the flow of ideas.

 

[Wildfire393]

I will give this a try. Thanks for the flow of ideas.

Yeah. I had a very brief session playing Brawl a few weeks ago, and nothing since. So my only refuge is Smash Boards, Smash Wiki, Youtube Videos, and trying to figure stuff out.

 

[Luthien]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMwVJVzWbEk&feature=user

@ 0:58
One of the coolest things I've seen today. By the way, is jab-canceling still in Brawl?

 

[Wildfire393]

Aw man, finally got to play some more Brawl. Not a ton of it, but enough to sate my urges for a few days. Zelda is definitely ridiculously poweful. First, I annihilated a Samus (and this was a Samus-player in Melee, one who thoroughly trounced me in a recent melee tournament. I know there's a lot of differences, but it still feels good). Naryu's love is pwnsome against Samus. He was land-cancelling double smash missiles (one in the air, one at ground level), and it was fast and long enough to reflect both. Din's Fire ***** bomb-jumping. Also, I saw several times, if you blow up a Din's Fire directly in front of someone in midair, it actually sent them back a little bit, meaning it was actually edgeguarding rather than just juggling.

I also took out an Olimar. As to anyone who claims Zelda has no game against small characters, that's complete BS. I definitely landed at least three sweet-spot Lightning Kicks. Hitting him in midair with one is basically death, because it also scatters like half of his Pikmin. And the Up-Air Explosion is uber-**** against Light characters. It kills at like, 60-something pre-attack damage.

The one matchup I had trouble with was Ike. I just haven't had the experience playing against him, so I had no solid idea about his range. And he can kill at lower percentages than Zelda can. And his counter works against Din's Fire (on the stage at least). I think all three of my deaths were due to mis-judged forward smash range leading to very early death.

 

[Darkmusician]

Yea. I actually discussed this with Gimpyfish today. Character's with awkward hit boxes and timing will be killing people a lot at first, but people will figure it out and then it won't happen as much. Ie. Din's Fire or Ike's Smashes. So it's what we do afterwards that will show the real skill.

Up air kills more that kick now. So good against Meta Knight, Spacies and Olimar.

 

[Wildfire393]

Yea. I actually discussed this with Gimpyfish today. Character's with awkward hit boxes and timing will be killing people a lot at first, but people will figure it out and then it won't happen as much. Ie. Din's Fire or Ike's Smashes. So it's what we do afterwards that will show the real skill.

Up air kills more that kick now. So good against Meta Knight, Spacies and Olimar.

Yeah. I frequently could pull off 2-3 Din's Fires in one edgeguard before they'd finally realize they could airdodge. And then I'd knock them off and do it again. I think they're stuck in the Melee mindset where airdodge = helpless.

Din's Fire is still good against characters whose recoveries have a "warm-up" period before they fire or some other sort of continuous action: Diddy, Spacies (maybe not wolf), Luigi, Samus, Gliders.

I know the Up-air is insane, but I can't just give up the Lightning kick. It's too satisfying. I guess L-kick for damage building, Up-Air for the kill works.

I've had some insane kicks before though. Like against Ike, he jumped back as I jumped forward, so we were moving together in midair. I tried a Lightning-kick, whiffed. Tried another one, whiffed again. He hit the ground, I tried a third, it killed him (even with diminishing returns at that point).

My problem with Ike was underestimating. I somehow figured he COULDN'T have a longer range than melee marth. So I'd stand like, half of Final-D away while he started a forward smash, hoping to come in when he finished for the kick. And then I'd suddenly go flying. So the next time, I figured I could get in before the attack went off, and went flying. I think the third one may have been out of an edgeguard. He wasn't even playing a great Ike (mostly just forward smash and forward air spamming), but I just didn't know how to deal.

 

[Darkmusician]

I totally agree. The kick is the most satisfying in-your-face kill. I don't mind the freezing of the move too. Kicked Lucas right in the jaw. That was great. I love you Lucas. :]

And about the fire, yes it eats up people that charge recovery. It also forces people not to double jump right away after getting knocked off the stage. Or characters that like to throw a projectile while recovering like Toon Link and Mario. I'm still trying to find blind spots in characters tether recoveries to punish.

 

[Wildfire393]

I totally agree. The kick is the most satisfying in-your-face kill. I don't mind the freezing of the move too. Kicked Lucas right in the jaw. That was great. I love you Lucas. :]

And about the fire, yes it eats up people that charge recovery. It also forces people not to double jump right away after getting knocked off the stage. Or characters that like to throw a projectile while recovering like Toon Link and Mario. I'm still trying to find blind spots in characters tether recoveries to punish.

The tether recovery characters are a wierd batch. Zamus is going to be really hard to punish, because her recovery is incredibly versatile. Ivy is also difficult, because he can razor-leaf spam. Naryu's love to reflect these can throw him off, and if you can keep him from just jumping to the stage, a timely ledgehog will lead him to his demise. Olimar is just plain in trouble. If you can hit him in midair with a strong attack like Din's or the Lightning Kick, you scatter and kill some of his pikmin (as many as 3-4 with the lightning kick). Plus, being so light, he's easy to kill with the Explosion (upair).

Pokemon trainer seems like an interesting opponent. Squirtle is hard to hit with a kick, but the Upair should annihilat him. Ivysaur is vulnerable to edgehogging. But really, fire juggling is great against these two. Because at high percentages, they are forced to change to Charizard, who is a gigantic, slow target for the kick.

Against Lucario though, fire-juggling is very much not recommended. It'll just boost his percentage unnecessarily, so that he is stronger. If possible, go for early spikes/upairs/off-edge-Lightning Kicks.

 

[Darksol55]

How do you do the Zelda trick where you kick close to the ground while getting up from the ledge?

 

[Wind Owl]

Down to dismount the ledge then X and towards the ledge to double-jump towards it, then A to kick. This is called "ledgehopping."

 

[CCC07]

Down to dismount the ledge then X and towards the ledge to double-jump towards it, then A to kick. This is called "ledgehopping."

sadly this tech is not as useful as it was in melee. zelda can be badly punish for whiffing
the kick. Melee whiff 9%> brawl whiff 4%. an as of now its harder to sweetspot.

 

[RoyalLance]

I noticed how you used Din's fire to force Falco to dodge and miss the ledge. I found that a little hilarious.

 

[blink777]

*pops in*

*mutters something about connection not being able to use YouTube*

*kicks stupid computer*

*pops out*

 

[Darksol55]

is Zelda as good as a character as ZSS? Cuz Gimpyfish said that she was a really good character.

 

[Wind Owl]

Tiers have not yet been formulated, and won't be for a while, but Zelda looks pretty good. Although, her escapable attacks are a serious blow to her potential.

 

[SeventhSage]

If I hear 'PK Fire' one more time I'll throw my computer through the window.. you are pretty good. I liked your spike in your first video. Zelda ownz.

 

[Darkmusician]

Ya Lucas isn't a quiet spammer. Imagine if Fox said "lazer!" everytime. >_<

Ya, I want to spike more.

 

[pyroroth]

Ya Lucas isn't a quiet spammer. Imagine if Fox said "lazer!" everytime. >_<

Ya, I want to spike more.

I don't think fox would have enough time to say lazer.. it'd probably be like la..la..la..la..lazer

 

[Admiral Pit]

You're showing such a great performance with Zelda! You should try to face a Sheik player, or a Pikachu and see what you can do against them.

Advice: if you are above Pika, and if you hear him using Thunder, Use Neutral B and make Pikachu zap himself. You shouldnt take damage from thunder either.

 

[Darkmusician]

You're showing such a great performance with Zelda! You should try to face a Sheik player, or a Pikachu and see what you can do against them.

Advice: if you are above Pika, and if you hear him using Thunder, Use Neutral B and make Pikachu zap himself. You shouldnt take damage from thunder either.

Yeah. Thanks for the advice. I do to my friend but he rarely goes for thunders off an upsmash anymore since I usually DI away from him.

I have a match against a Pika and a Sheik. I'll see if I can find them. Thanks again. :]

 

[Darkmusician]

New vids. My last big patch that I'll be posting. Anything after this week I won't be posting as much since everyone will have the game.

 

[Drake3]

I only watched 1 so far, but you did an amazing job on that Marth (3 stocked fight). It's crazy to see how much progress you've made in such short amount of time.

 

[pyroroth]

Overall, how do you think zelda fairs against the speedy characters? Also, nice usage of her B move.

 

[Darkmusician]

Overall, how do you think zelda fairs against the speedy characters? Also, nice usage of her B move.

I'd say she does well. I'm more scared of reach than speed so far. I have a few more set to upload. One vs Sonic.

Kay all of the vids are up. I'll load them to my filefront throughout the week. Busy times ahead but I'll check back here later. Check first page. Shootz den.

 

[Lingy]

Wow, nice big update :D These'll keep me occupied for a while. Can't wait to face you DM~

 

[Darkmusician]

Wow, nice big update :D These'll keep me occupied for a while. Can't wait to face you DM~

Same here man. :] Still a few more vids to come later on this week. Most of them of other players.

 

[Wildfire393]

So I got around to trying those techniques today. Maybe not conclusively, but initial tests didn't pan out too well.

Canceling Shield Into Farore's Wind Down: I could cancel Shield into a jump, but pressing B didn't seem to segue into Farore's Wind. I did manage to use farore's wind downwards once from standing, and it looked like both hitboxes were in the same area, so maybe this works with Up-jumping off.

Naryu's Hogging: This didn't seem to work. Then again, the one time I tried it I ran off too quickly, and the Naryu's didn't slow me as much as I thought it would, and I ended up SDing. But maybe if I run slower and Naryu's faster, DIing towards the ledge immediately this can work.

 

[Darkmusician]

Maybe the Naryu's hog could work if you jumped first. Idk I'm still uncertain about jumping off the edge. Suicides are fatal in this game. More so than melee.

 

[Veggie123]

I'm really impressed with your videos, Darkmusician.

Your gameplay has really evolved from your first couple of matches that employed a lot of melee based techniques, while your more recent matches are much more varied attack-wise.

As far as match ups are concerned, can you say early on which characters that give Zelda a run for her money?

 

[Darkmusician]

Hey Veggie. I like your name. :]

And thank you for watching. I watch my matches over and over so I can see what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong.

Hard chars to fight. I find Lucas and Game and Watch annoying because I can't spam Din's Fire. I'll post the rest of my matches soon. I'll admit though, Game and Watch probably only gives me a hard time because I don't know how to fight him quite yet.

Uploaded the last of the matches. If I get the chance to I'll record some of the tournament matches that happen this weekend.

 

[blueriku]

the vid when you went against snake was nice, does snake ever give you a lot trouble with his mines? or is it pretty much being alert on where all snakes explosives are?

 

[Icy_Eagle]

You didn't record angled camera brawl?

Those new videos are still great though :bigthumbu

 

[Darkmusician]

You didn't record angled camera brawl?

Those new videos are still great though :bigthumbu

Ya. Sunday was so hectic that I forgot. Sorry bout that. T_T

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Great vids, can´t say anything else (although I didn´t have time to watch all of them yet). I sure have lots of catching up to do when Brawl comes out in Europe...sigh.

Now enyone who thinks that SSBB can´t be played in tournaments should check out these videos!

 

[Icy_Eagle]

Ya. Sunday was so hectic that I forgot. Sorry bout that. T_T

It's understandable, it's brawl after all
I'd just like to know whether you'll be able to do it so I won't be waiting for nothing (I live in europe btw)

 

[Darkmusician]

It's understandable, it's brawl after all
I'd just like to know whether you'll be able to do it so I won't be waiting for nothing (I live in europe btw)

Ah I see. When I get the game I'll try it out for you and record a match. Just keep poking me with reminders. :]

 

[blink777]

Finally got onto a computer that'll let me get at YouTube. Great, great vids. So much more pleasing than the 4-player newbie-athons. Thanks for sharing (though Filefront would still be nice: I'd love to dload them so I could watch some while on my regular computer: again, no rush at all).

A few things: omg, DSmash is incredible. I can't believe the angle it knocks people away at. And yay for (what looks like) less lag on to-ground FW! Yay'age.

 

[NJzFinest]

GOOD STUFF

Zelda for top tier?

 

[Wildfire393]

GOOD STUFF

Zelda for top tier?

Zelda for GOD tier.

But seriously, she's not fast enough for the hardcore tourney players to embrace en masse. She might end up high initially (Zelda was tied for sixth on the first Melee tier list), but will probably be overshadowed by the really fast, powerful characters: Pit, Diddy, Metaknight, Fox, Falco?, Wolf, Marth, maybe Pikachu, etc. I personally think that Pit, Zelda, and Dedede all deserve top tier placement, but that might just be me.