D-Throw to Jab to LL

[Blad01]

Wow, I just wtached a vid... Look at 4:14 and 4:21. http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=DRoWxjwdqHE

D-Throw, then Jab, then he could have Laserlock him... O_O

Definitly something to look into

[EDIT : After some testing, this can be avoided by DI Up, but then you can punish that Still a very interesting option]

 

[BBoyindo]

That would be so cool. Im gonna try it out today.

 

[Vlade]

Whoa, you're right. This is something that will really catch the opponent off-guard.

We'll need to find % ranges for certain characters though.

Can't wait to perhaps start incorporating it into my matches.

 

[Blad01]

And here it is : http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=74PwggxKPmc&feature=channel_page. 4:04

We should have discovered that before è_é

 

[Vlade]

Lol it's even in the video description.

Looks like we got a new tool up our sleeve.

Judging from the 2 videos, it seems that this will work well at around 60% when you start the dthrow. However, it's been done only on heavy characters, and may not work on floaties (unlikely). There will probably be different optimal percentages for different weights with this 'trick'.

EDIT: After some testing, it seems like 68% is the optimal number. I can't seem to jab wolf in training mode or vs mode, perhaps he has to DI away from falco? I managed to get the jab against most of the fat characters, as well as wario and metaknight.

EDIT 2: I'm loving the falco boards this week. New stuff everywhere.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Whoa. Can you say laser lock? ;O

 

[gunterrsmash01]

Wow, Japan has some good Falcos. Looks like Japan is finally starting to adapt the "gay" playstyle and not just do everything Melee-esque. That laser lock looks brilliant.

 

[Recoil]

Usually I see creative ideas but not really useful in game play, but this might actually be useful.

I'm looking forward to more testing though :D

 

[§witch]

Usually I see creative ideas but not really useful in game play, but this might actually be useful.

I'm looking forward to more testing though :D

Why wouldn't a jab out of dthrow that can likely result in a laserlock, be viable in real play?

 

[Hyo]

Why wouldn't a jab out of dthrow that can likely result in a laserlock, be viable in real play?

I think what he means is he usually finds newly developed ats that are creative - but useless- (e.g. that laser grab, pivot walking), whereas this dthrow>jab>LL is very viable and useful.

On a personal note, this looks awesome. I agree that further testing is needed, but it looks promising.

 

[Vlade]

I've done some more testing (by myself) and it appears that at 68% and above the jab will put the opponent in the tumbling animation for a laser lock (most characters). Of course this won't work at very high percentages, and it depends on the opponents DI.

I'll do some more testing with another person today hopefully.

 

[Denzi]

Woah, that's pretty crazy. I'll have to try that one out.

Does it work on Falco? (just wondering)

 

[J4pu]

Woah, that's pretty crazy. I'll have to try that one out.

Does it work on Falco? (just wondering)

lol, before if you got past the CG > spike percent you were safe, now falco dittos can be fully gay no matter what percent you're at.

@technique. can't wait to incorporate this

 

[AvoiD]

I think I'm going to play Falco again.

 

[RickShaw626]

Oh wow. I tryed out jab out of cg before but found it useless. But now i am too curious to let this go untested ^^

 

[zamz]

LMAO, you know the funny part? Just when it looked like Falco was going to suffer in the tiers due to the techable spike, Falco finds something new just as devastating.

 

[bob-e]

So how exactly do you get the opponent to go in a low, straight path like in the video. Every time I try this in training, they go on a high path that would give plenty of time to air dodge.

 

[Villi]

peasandcarrotspeasandcarrots

 

[Villi]

LMAO, you know the funny part? Just when it looked like Falco was going to suffer in the tiers due to the techable spike, Falco finds something new just as devastating.

A set-up for punishing a missed tech? xD

So how exactly do you get the opponent to go in a low, straight path like in the video. Every time I try this in training, they go on a high path that would give plenty of time to air dodge.

It's dependant on DI. Punish that kind of DI with dairs.

 

[clowsui]

BTW for any ******* who decide to go "WIFAIL!11!!1!!1":

You're a ******. Japan's Wifi is MUCH better than ours, as in their latency is consistently low, as in they have next to zero lag.

 

[J4pu]

^
random much?

and that doesn't change the fact that OUR wifi sucks ***. I'm not sure how Japan does it, but it clearly isn't set-up to run well in places like the US.

 

[Vlade]

So how exactly do you get the opponent to go in a low, straight path like in the video. Every time I try this in training, they go on a high path that would give plenty of time to air dodge.

Exactly what happened to me. It's completely dependant on DI.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

You can still punish Air Dodging right? At that low percentage of 70ish percent, most of the cast is still within range of a DACUS/dash upsmash which can be charged to hit them once they loss invincibility frames.

And jumping just seems to ruin this period. I'm pretty sure nothing can connect after an Dthrow once someone reaches 60% as jumping gets everyone out of the attack range of any other attacks falco uses.

 

[Tommy_G]

This is just f**king amazing. 66%-113% 47% damage.... this is the damage area I have the most trouble with too.

Just wow....113% with no diminish on the back air, down air, up air, down smash, or up smash.

 

[J4pu]

47% is highly unlikely to happen unless you only play FD and plan on camping the very edge the whole time. but regardless, it's still really good, however it is easily escapable if they see it coming.

 

[Tommy_G]

It happened just past the middle of the stage. Very possible to get damage like that on other stages.

 

[J4pu]

hmm, maybe my memory is messed up then

 

[AvoiD]

Who all can be hit by the first hit of his jab? I was trying Snake, but didn't work, unless I'm doing something wrong. ;o

 

[Crizthakidd]

wtf falco boards have stepped it uppp dayum

 

[Recoil]

Just wondering, so how is the testing coming along for this?

 

[§witch]

This is just f**king amazing. 66%-113% 47% damage.... this is the damage area I have the most trouble with too.

Just wow....113% with no diminish on the back air, down air, up air, down smash, or up smash.

Exactly, this is completely groundbreaking. And we can follow the LL with a charged DACUS, it might not always KO but Christ, this is amazing.

 

[Hyo]

I don't exactly understand how to connect with this. Tell me if I'm wrong:

You dthrow (decayed)
jab

laser away

For the most part, when I connect with the jab it doesn't do the effect I witnessed in the video. What's wrong? Am I supposed to jab twice?

 

[J4pu]

I think testing data is getting added to this thread, none is in OP yet, but it's on the last page.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205916&page=4

 

[wangston]

I'm having the same problem is Hyo. It's just a normal jab nothing is happening.

 

[J4pu]

...
did you think it worked at all %'s? come on guys i have faith in your thinking abilities.
they have to be at a percent that the dthrow would cause them to fall on their back if they did nothing, all the jab does is shorten their time in the air and make it more likely that they won't do anything before they hit the ground where the will fall on their back at correct percents.

i have some legit data on the last page of that thread i linked.

 

[Hyo]

^Ah I see very character dependent to land the proper jab. If that's the case, we'll have to do a lot of testing to compile a list of characters required DI and %'s. Pretty much, we need to know which characters are worth trying to jab into LL.

I mean come on, no sane person would DI towards Falco during a CG, that's just asking for it.

 

[wangston]

Yeah I tried it on snake for various percents even at one that he falls on his back even if he isn't jabbed. idk i'll try again.

Am I supposed to be jabbing immediately?? I'm doing both , jabbing immediately and walkling a little then jabbing, at % above 45 nothing is happening. I'm guessing the person has to be di'ing for this to work.

 

[J4pu]

oh yea, i occasionally have that issue as well (mostly on snake for some reason) where the jab just sets them standing upright.

My only guess as for why is maybe because of his height his animation during the jab hit makes his feet touch the ground so it acts as if he was jabbed while standing. iono, just a guess, he's the only one is happened to me a lot though (i only tested MK, ddd, snake, GW, and marth though) my GW data was really strange so i just didnt even put it up.

if you just want to get it to work for you one time CG MK 0-45 (i know you can't in person) SHdair regrab then do it, works regardless of DI.

 

[wangston]

I got it to work but it only works if I hit with the tip off the jab, if I hit with anything other than that it resets the animation.

 

[GMo]

I think this could be really big for Falco is this works reliably. I'll see if I can get some research on this done later on.