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Critique Super Smash Bros.

UserKev

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
2,631
Smash Ultimate's DLC wave is disappointing and very personal. While Terry is a given mascot, he's still niche and Steve was always extremely certain and controversial. Can we please go back to when it took a character sheer star power and not some dumb relationship boost.
 

Perkilator

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
10,585
Location
The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
Smash Ultimate's DLC wave is disappointing and very personal. While Terry is a given mascot, he's still niche and Steve was always extremely certain and controversial. Can we please go back to when it took a character sheer star power and not some dumb relationship boost.
So we’re just gonna ignore Banjo, who’s a fan-favorite, or...?
 

Depressed Gengar

Hana Is Best Girl
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
4,891
Location
The Johto Region
Smash Ultimate's DLC wave is disappointing and very personal. While Terry is a given mascot, he's still niche and Steve was always extremely certain and controversial. Can we please go back to when it took a character sheer star power and not some dumb relationship boost.
Steve stopped being controversial ages ago (ignoring the Banjo VS Steve wars, because otherwise Banjo would be controversial too) and if the reaction to him was anything to go by, he was one of, if not then the most popular character before he got in. Nevermind the fact that he was basically one of the last genuine gaming icons left.

You're honestly right that potential newcomers should be held to a higher standard than the current bar is, but Steve's not an example of the current standard. If anything, Steve's been the exception, and the only other DLC pick that's come close to Steve's standard are the DQ heroes.
 
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Internal Frickface

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 28, 2016
Messages
40
marth's side b got more lame as the series went on, you could do some wacky stuff with it in melee and now it's just a generic rushdown mode
 

MetaWeegee

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
32
Location
None of your ****ing buisness
I know it's been said before but I miss Wario Man and old Giga Bowser

I know why they did the changes, but I wish they could have allowed you to choose between their old transformation smashes and their new ones on the character select or something (pretty sure Street Fighter V does something similar with special moves).
 

Internal Frickface

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 28, 2016
Messages
40
battlefield looked the same for the past three games

like, not exactly the same, but they've all had the same aesthetic ever since brawl, a sort of earthy/grassy vibe to it, which i don't hate, it's just that they didn't change up the aesthetic for three games straight, like, i sometimes can't tell the difference between smash 4's and ultimate's battlefield

they're still beautiful though
 

UserKev

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
2,631
battlefield looked the same for the past three games

like, not exactly the same, but they've all had the same aesthetic ever since brawl, a sort of earthy/grassy vibe to it, which i don't hate, it's just that they didn't change up the aesthetic for three games straight, like, i sometimes can't tell the difference between smash 4's and ultimate's battlefield

they're still beautiful though
I agree with you. I would love for Battlefied to go back to a space centered arena or just make it Metal Cavern.
 

Pupp135

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2020
Messages
1,875
battlefield looked the same for the past three games

like, not exactly the same, but they've all had the same aesthetic ever since brawl, a sort of earthy/grassy vibe to it, which i don't hate, it's just that they didn't change up the aesthetic for three games straight, like, i sometimes can't tell the difference between smash 4's and ultimate's battlefield

they're still beautiful though
One thing that would be nice to see is being able to use past versions of Battlefield and FD if the player wanted to (I do like the current ones though).

Another thing that could be nice to see online outside of fixing issues like being kicked out for switching characters or the restrictions related to 2 players on the same game is a continuous rotation mode where players switch out when someone dies during the match (I think I saw somewhere that this might have been planned in Brawl).
 
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UserKev

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
2,631
Sakurai did an amazing job on Ultimate. Battlefield variants of every stage is incredibly thoughtful. He far beyond deserve his praise. This is why anything coming from Sakurai, we expect perfection.

Ridley and King K. Rool are fulfilled fan requests over decades, playable Master Hand is a neat treat and, Rodin Assist Trophy recognition. :)
 

Perkilator

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
10,585
Location
The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
I just realized that CD's don't come back. Not only does this render Mew useless, but with a game like Ultimate that has so much music, this seemed like such a no-brainer thing to do.

Like, you could even alter the design to be the Smash symbol with a musical note on the top right.
 
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Otoad64

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 22, 2020
Messages
1,982
Location
Who Knows Where?
I really hate how nintendo just refuses to give characters many major updates, some characters, like ganondorf or sonic, were rushed, and had rushed movesets, that's fine for the time but afterwards they're pretty much doomed to stay that way because nintendo hates change or something


also the online needs serious fixing
 
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asia_catdog_blue

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
994
I really hate how nintendo just refuses to give characters many major updates, some characters, like ganondorf or sonic, were rushed, and had rushed movesets, that's fine for the time but afterwards they're pretty much doomed to stay that way because nintendo likes hates change or something


also the online needs serious fixing
Either that , or they believe their audience would hate the change.

People love the "King of Disrespect."
 

Janx_uwu

Smash Champion
Writing Team
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
2,975
Location
Faraway Avalon
I really hate how nintendo just refuses to give characters many major updates, some characters, like ganondorf or sonic, were rushed, and had rushed movesets, that's fine for the time but afterwards they're pretty much doomed to stay that way because nintendo likes hates change or something


also the online needs serious fixing
I think Ganondorf's had enough changes to the point where I'm okay with him now. He's hardly a "Falcondorf" anymore.
Sonic, on the other hand...

Whlie I'm here, I might as well say that Sonic hasn't had a remix since Brawl-which was only one remix (albeit a really good one)-but Mega Man and Street Fighter and Castlevania get dozens despite not being in the series for nearly as long.
 

Oracle Link

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
3,475
Location
Germany
I agree with you. I would love for Battlefied to go back to a space centered arena or just make it Metal Cavern.
Mmh but then Fd should change as well how about we flip the Themes

Mhh try playing Battlefield Fd this should scratch the itch Right?

Am i Debating right now im Autistic so i dont really Know!
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I just realized that CD's don't come back. Not only does this render Mew useless, but with a game like Ultimate that has so much music, this seemed like such a no-brainer thing to do.

Like, you could even alter the design to be the Smash symbol with a musical note on the top right.
Those things made unlocking music an absolute pain in the ass, especially in Smash 4 where there wasn't a way to get them all quickly (unlike in Brawl where you could at least spend a couple hours in CD Factories). An alternate method of unlocking music was needed and I'm glad Ultimate did that.
 

StrangeKitten

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 25, 2020
Messages
1,927
Location
Battle Royal Dome
Y'know, I have my list of characters I play. I wonder, should I make any adjustments? Are there any characters I list as Pockets who I play more than my Secondaries, who should thus be listed as Secondaries instead? I wonder what the Records section says... Oh, apparently it doesn't take Squad Strike into account (which is what I exclusively use to practice) :/
 

Perkilator

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
10,585
Location
The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
Smash's sound effects post Bros. Melee is mostly bland and uninspiring. Smash 64 had a fun and fascinating sound effects, they sounded more dangerous and entertaining. I wish they used Smash 64's sounds effects as an inspirational source for an engineering point.
Eh, I don’t have a problem with them at all. In fact, Brawl’s are some of my favorites.

Also, I just now realized; the normal Spirit Board shows 10 Spirits on its main page, while DLC Spirit Boards show 8 Spirits PER page. With this in mind, why don’t the DLC Spirit Boards ALSO show 10 Spirits per page?

Here’s a tweet I made about for visual reference:
 

MyB

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
20
In a sentence: Not enough *flashy tech, and the offense is often frustrating or unsatisfying.

What bothers me the most about Ultimate is how slippery most of the cast is. Thought you had a punish? Syke, everything is safe. And if you do get a hit, half the time it's just a stray hit and then the neutral resets.

Just look at the newest DLC Pyra and Mythra. How do you even pressure them? They'll probably recover with time to do that invincible swap out move, dodge your attack midair, and now you're the one eating a combo.

*Flashiest (universal) tech in this game is... wavebounce maybe? Most of the universal tech in Ultimate just allows you to be slightly more precise with spacing. There's no cool factor. Even some the most advanced stuff is barely noticeable. Ex: I just found out Fatality has been doing this tech called Dash Cancel Walk Cancel Boost Grab, and he's been doing it for over a year but I had no idea. It takes 6 words to say the name of the tech but it just looks like a normal run into dash grab.
 

Oracle Link

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
3,475
Location
Germany
Uuuuh Boy thatl be a long one!
Let me put it in spoilers:
Firemblem has 8 chars
Wtf a Pirahna Plant
Main themes Galore
1-1,1-1,1-1,1-1 and 8-Castle
Now lets be more specific:
Shiek is a wasted slot It should be Impa!
Ganondorf is a clone of Captain Falcon!
There is no "evil" stage
3 Links (i mean 2 are perfect but 3 seem a bit too much)
Only 3 battle Tracks
Thats more or less it!
Also more chars!

Its a little too much in my opinion
No level 5
Too much Castlevania
Sonic still being alone
No sonic remixes
No pac maze (althpough i dontr hate Pac land i just think Maze fits better)

Oh my god where do i start!

We have only Three chars 1 less than Metroid and just as many as Xenoblade considering that kirby gets barely any Smash Push thats unfair!

Knight mare is a Assist Trophy he appeared Twice and one of these times was in av Minigame where a lot of Bosses where in!
Yeah team kirby Clash doesnt Count thats Parralel Kinghtmare!

Same thing (although not as crazy) with Marx

we have 2 remixes from non Sakurai Kirby

The other 2 Ats are generic Enemys when there are multiple Kirby Chars they couldve picked

Green Greens (not even green Gardens or Gears) is in 3 Stages

No dedede Castle!

Great cave ofensive!

Dreamland GB!

0 Stages from Non sakurai Kirby

No Bandana Dee, Dark matter or Magolor

And much more here for Comparison:
Bandana dee is not in! Comparable to Peach not being in!(yeah Peach because BWD is a more defined Char as Toad!)
Dark Matter not being in Comparable to only Bowser jr being in instead of Bowser (dedede is not the main villain of kirby nor really evil)
Knight mare being in:
Imagine Ghirahim Was in Smash But not Ganon(dorf)
No Sakurai Kirby Representation: Imagine if the Only Content Mario Got was from Mario Bros 1+3, World and Mario Kart Double dash!
GG being 3 stages imagine if SMB1 L1-1 was 3 stages instead of just 2
Magolor similar to Rosalina!

And yeah ive Read too much MHA in the last weeks!
 

Pupp135

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2020
Messages
1,875
Although I have mentioned some issues about online (cannot change fighters between matches/1v1 tourneys not always available), my biggest issue is that there is no unranked mode for quickplay (I don’t like playing ranked).
 

Perkilator

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
10,585
Location
The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
Here’s how I’d change Link and Young Link

Link
B: Ancient Bow / Bow; Link charges a powerful Ancient Arrow that explodes in an area after full charge. It uses up a specific Stamina meter, so Link switches to a normal bow after the Stamina for the Ancient Bow is fully drained.
B + Forwards: Ripping Boomerang; One of Link’s customs from Smash 4.
B + Up: Spin Attack / Paraglider; On the ground, Link performs his famous Spin Attack. In the air, Link unfurls the Paraglider and floats up high for a bit.
B + Down: Remote Bomb; Same as is.
Final Smash: Flurry Rush; Basically a Triforce Slash reskin, but Link uses Stasis on the opponent in front of him and unleashes a Flurry Rush.

Young Link
B: Fire Arrow; Same as is.
B + Forward: Double Cutters; Young Link dons a Zora mask and throws two Zora fins like boomerangs.
B + Up: Deku Flower Flight; Young Link dons a Deku Mask and uses two flowers to fly upwards. Mostly similar to Link’s Paraglider, except Young Link can drop one Deku Nut during the flight.
B + Down: Goron Roll / Goron Pound; by constantly tapping B, Young Link dons a Goron Mask and rolls forward uncontrollably. By jumping while rolling or starting up, Young Link instead pounds the ground with tremendous force.
Final Smash: Fierce Deity; once again, a Triforce Slash reskin, but with Young Link as the Fierce Diety.

In Young Link’s case, the Spin Attack would be his neutral aerial attack. Sadly, he doesn’t transform in any of the moves that use a mask, save for Fierce Deity.
 

MasterCheef

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 7, 2021
Messages
651
Please note the reason i post here is because i think these two issues are the biggest issues with SSBU & i don't think they get talked about enough.

honestly my main complaints are

1 many of the playable fighters' move-set(s) make a disastrous & ineffective play-style.
2 My other big complaint is most of the ( arenas / stages ) are not fun to play on.

numbered Examples
1.1 is how Yoshi's Side Special is quite fully useless and generally does not improve his gameplay.
1.2 Corrin, Belmonts, Bowser, Ridley, & ZSS, all have a down air which if used incorrectly results in a SD / lost stock.
1.2.1 Bowser, Yoshi, all have a down special which if used incorrectly could actual result in a SD / lost stock.
1.3 Zelda's forward air being useless 98% of the time makes her a snooze-fest to play even powered up with a powerful Level 99 Legendary spirit.
1.4 these characters' move-sets really need an overhaul. ( Samus / Dark Samus & ZSS, Peach / Daisy, Pac-Man, Mario & Luigi, Ganondorf & Link )
1.4.1 these characters' move-sets really need a buffing update ( Zelda, Mii Gunner, Bulbasaur & Charizard, ? )
1.6 The heavies are bottom tier for sooo many reasons the three biggest are; ( they don't have ranged moves or their ranged moves lack any meaningful element of surprise ) ( Heavies' ground or air movement speed or both is usually strongly related to molasses. ) ( Heavies' recovery is terrible. )

2. generally the platforms are either to small to be useful or poorly placed. or the hazards are miserable & more reasons too not listed
2.1 Battlefield ( regular ) has 1 too many platforms; the top one
2.2 Hyrule castle ( tower portion )
2.3 Kongo Falls some platforms are too small
2.4 Jungle Japes the hazards are miserable
2.5 Brinstar the hazards are miserable
2.6 Hanenbow not enough grab-able ledges.

Not a complete list however definitely the most problematic
 
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Wario Wario Wario

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
11,607
Location
Ed Bighead for NASB 2
Aesthetically, Smash Ultimate feels really lifeless and corporate compared to everything before it, especially Melee.



Lifelight is a great song on its own, but an utterly terrible Smash Bros. theme. When I think "Pac-Man beating the **** out of Sephiroth" I don't think "somber elegy about the inevitability of death."

I really wish we'd get more obscure characters, we haven't got a truly obscure character since Pit. in Brawl. Third parties could've opened the door to some really good obscure fighters too, look at the original Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing roster for example.

I've grown to utterly abhor how Smash exploits hype culture. The ARMS reveal is a great example. I wish they'd go back to Dojo blog posts.
 

Oracle Link

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
3,475
Location
Germany
Aesthetically, Smash Ultimate feels really lifeless and corporate compared to everything before it, especially Melee.



Lifelight is a great song on its own, but an utterly terrible Smash Bros. theme. When I think "Pac-Man beating the **** out of Sephiroth" I don't think "somber elegy about the inevitability of death."

I really wish we'd get more obscure characters, we haven't got a truly obscure character since Pit. in Brawl. Third parties could've opened the door to some really good obscure fighters too, look at the original Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing roster for example.

I've grown to utterly abhor how Smash exploits hype culture. The ARMS reveal is a great example. I wish they'd go back to Dojo blog posts.
I also think lifelight sucks especially since nintendo never translates songs into other languages than English!
 

MyB

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
20
There are huge missed opportunities with some movesets, to the point that it feels disrespectful to the characters. ie. Ganon and Kirby have been in every Smash since Melee but their movesets still barely draw from their games.

I think Ganondorf's had enough changes to the point where I'm okay with him now. He's hardly a "Falcondorf" anymore.
The fact that this comment got likes disturbs me to my core. Every special and nearly every normal is still a variation on a Falcon move
 

Linkmain-maybe

Smash Ace
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
690
Switch FC
SW-1042-6735-2236
Many characters in Ultimate lead too far into a zoning style, forcing a situation where the zoner doesn’t get to build their fundamentals and the person getting zoned is forced to start an interaction, with repeated failure. When they do get in, characters like Samus can box reasonable well, meaning they not only have to close the distance, but also win in an close range encounter. Even further, lots of zoners have ways to escape disadvantage. Snake has frame 1 grenades, Samus has down-b, Yink has Nair, Min-Min does Min-Min things, etc. This makes the player getting zoned have to play much better than the other player, as an equal skill level zoner and boxer usually ends with the boxer losing. The situation is worsened by input lag, where deadly projectiles are even better and combos are less likely. Overall, zoners have not been implemented in a very fun way, even if it is fine competitively.
 

UserKev

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
2,631
I seriously miss costume moves. They made random matches unpredictable and the costume feature its self was the closes to the characters eventually having they're otherwise iconic moves. Hope this is why the feature was removed.

You truly never know what you have until its gone.
 

Jurae818

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
294
Here’s a critique I have with Ultimate and overall the future of the rosters in the games to come.

Short version; there are plenty of Nintendo characters still left to use and even if they aren’t important or hype-worthy, they’ll become important by the sheer prestige that Smash gives its playable characters. This is still a Nintendo crossover game and Nintendo faces shouldn’t be downplayed, especially if 3rd party characters aren’t able to return for any number of reasons.

Long Version: There is a notion among certain parts of this fandom that annoys me. There’s this viewpoint that every 1st party (Keyword, they add in 2nd party characters in this umbrella too without knowing it) character that matters is already in the playable roster (Keyword, playable). Nintendo has hundreds if not thousands of characters that can be added to the roster. Whether you think they’re hype-worthy or not isn’t up to you. I’d argue that thanks to the 3rd parties Brawl introduced, there is this perception that any Nintendo-owned character that isn’t on the playable roster isn’t important. This to me damages the future roster potential of Smash Bros., you’re going to get people who want 3rd parties over actual Nintendo characters and Nintendo themselves in my opinion are only fueling those view points.

Ultimate’s roster also shines a light on why I feel this mindset is damaging. Again, this is all an opinion so please don’t come at me with any grievances you have over me disagreeing with what you like.



Smash has always had a rather…awkward manner of selecting characters. You’ve got Mario and Donkey Kong, alongside Yoshi, Link and Pikachu and even lesser characters like Kirby, Samus, Falcon and Ness. Kirby and Metroid aren’t terribly obscure, but they aren’t what I’d call games that could push a console like Mario, Zelda and DKC did. But Ness, Fox and Falcon are definitely the outliners of that roster. Jigglypuff could be argued, but the anime was making it a popular recurring character and it was an easy character to make off Kirby’s base. If nothing else, it was a fan favorite prior to Smash in a deck of 151 characters.

Melee comes in and adds some bigger names like Bowser, Peach, Zelda, Pichu who again had popularity from an already large deck prior to (And being a clone helped, more on that later), but you also had some strange picks like G&W, Ice Climber repurposing the player characters as a duo (sidenote, Ice Climber was one of my first games so I loved them to death), and two big sore thumbs like the clone characters and the two Japan-only characters from Fire Emblem, which at the time were shocking. Ganondorf was the big boss of Zelda’s breakout title, but he was a clone of Falcon? Then you had a smaller Link, Falco who I would say would be the last character anyone would have expected, and Dr. Mario who may as well be an alternate costume at the time. You also had some guys that people were anticipating that were missing in action like Diddy Kong, Wario, Banjo-Kazooie (Which was understandable as Rare was getting ready to move to Microsoft), Meowth, and Dedede or Metaknight, whichever one came first.

Looking at Melee’s roster, could you really say that the alternatives like Dr. Mario, Roy and Young Link are noteworthy names over someone like Diddy Kong, Ridley, Isaac or Wario? I know they were added to make the roster bigger and took very little time compared to a full character but this is why I don’t get into the mindset that Sakurai is scraping the bottom of the barrel; the barrel was being filled with potential candidates starting with Brawl. Diddy and Wario finally made it and you had more one-off characters like Pit and two new Kirby characters.

Yet Isaac, Samurai Goroh and Starfy were reduced to a short cameo that only core Nintendo fans would recognize, while characters like ROB, Zero Suit Samus and Lucas became playable. Not that there’s anything wrong with those characters but in the case of Zero Suit, Ridley in Melee’s intro led a lot of people on, and I think this is why Sakurai stopped using unique imagery like the scenes in Melee’s introduction, what you see from Brawl onward is what you get, I give him credit for that at least. Wolf, Goroh and Ridley were absent from Melee, and Goroh never got his time to shine while the other two eventually did, Ridley being way overdue alongside another villain that eventually got in, which also brings me to my next point.

A lot of obvious choices or some fan choices that people hoped to see would either make it to the roster eventually (IE a decade if not years) or never get to be playable or even get cut from the next game and them come back in the same position they were in (Isaac, and keep in mind I’m not a Golden Sun fan nor do I think they’re good games, but I get why people were banking on Isaac to be playable and I think some of the elements could lend themselves well to Smash). It should not take a suggestion box being filled with people shouting to add King K. Rool and Ridley on the playable roster. A mode like Subspace Emissary which passed itself off as this big event should have had K. Rool in the game as a boss at most, if Ridley got that honor.

But then you see Ganondorf and Bowser and realize that villains could be playable too. So why weren’t they until now? And to make matters worse, they swapped a smaller Link for an even smaller Link – who I like alongside the games he stars in mind you – and added oddities like Samus outside her armor, a Wario that doesn’t really represent his Wario Land adventures and leans towards material that wasn’t present in his games, something Sakurai seemingly stresses over when developing a character and suddenly here comes Solid Snake and Sonic the Hedgehog. While Olimar, Ike and Lucario showed a good balance of newer Nintendo games and Pit and ROB showcased an older element of Nintendo alongside a unique showcase of Pokémon’s switch out mechanic and even Wolf and Diddy being the long-time guys that people hoped to see in Melee, I think that Snake and Sonic opened a box that would affect the roster further for the worse.

Smash For definitely proved my point with a lot of would-be fan favorites, regardless of how big or well-known they were being pushed into the assist trophy corner if not being cut altogether simply because of reasons or the dreaded “Relevancy” argument. You had a list of characters who were pushing a recent title and some 3rd parties that weren’t really pushing a new game, Mega Man and Pac-Man a prime example of this, and in the case of 3rd parties, pushing a new game wasn’t the priority, it was simply being these big name 3rd parties. This is why I don’t like when people are attacked for suggesting Nintendo characters in the big Nintendo crossover, it’s clear that 3rd parties don’t have to push a new title, but Nintendo characters have to do just this or they get shafted. There's also the well-documented strategy of Fire Emblem being promoted when it only just now became a series barely on par with say, Kirby or Metroid and especially with DKC1 outselling the entire series before Awakening.

In the case of Sakurai, I also feel this is a mix of obligations and biases on his end. Who you see on the roster is ultimately his choice. You could argue that Nintendo may not want certain characters pushed but then you have to remember that King K. Rool jumped the hurdles that were being used against him. And then you realize that K. Rool is the only example here. Ridley was already in Smash in some capacity, but K. Rool was just a trophy you collected until the Ballot, and he was just a western creation that Donkey Kong already did away with at the time. So being ‘relevant’ isn’t an argument. And all of a sudden, King K. Rool is important and a worthy addition when there’s plenty of receipts showing that people thought otherwise. What should be the norm is now just a bone thrown to the dogs to keep them quiet.

Again, he was a western-made character vs. Ridley being Japanese-made. That alone gave Ridley more priority. Castlevania hasn’t gotten a new title in years, Street Fighter is big enough that it doesn’t need Smash to sell the newest title, Dragon Quest is a literal cultural phenomenon, Banjo-Kazooie is the 3rd party equivalent of King K. Rool, Terry’s series got devoured by King of Fighters, you kinda see where I’m going with this. 3rd parties get to be 3rd parties, just the name alone is enough to get them in (Except Bomberman it seems, and I’m still raw over that).

But Nintendo characters that Sakurai doesn’t care for or Nintendo themselves don’t care for or don’t want to push are likely never going to be playable. Big names like Dixie Kong, King Hippo, Isaac, Bandana Dee, Gooey, Krystal, Toad, Ashley, Waluigi, Skull Kid, Pig Ganon, Starfy (He had five games vs. Kid Icarus’ three) alongside niche fan favorites like Takamaru, Sukapon, Lip, Chibi-Robo, Dillon and Ray-01 are never becoming playable unless you get a big roster like Ultimate’s again and even that’s not a guarantee when Nintendo newcomers like Spring Man and Rex weren’t safe from getting the shaft, making additions like Min-Min and Pyra/Mythra even more damning and sloppy, proving that giving the fans something over nothing doesn’t always work.

And this brings me to the big controversy the next Smash title has to deal with: Who’s worthy of staying and who’s getting cut? You could look at the roster now and make the obvious cuts (3rd parties, clones/dessert) but then what? Do you cut characters that aren’t ‘relevant’? Falcon and Ness and Little Mac come to mind for me. But wait, they have fans. But they can’t promote a game. They have to go. And then…

Who do you replace these guys with? You’re going to have to sell Smash someway. New playable characters are always going to get more attention than any other side attraction, and it’s understandable why Assist Trophies and spirits aren’t enough for some people (Myself included). You’ll have to get a newcomer lineup that gets people’s attention. So do you dive into your irrelevant war chest of has-beens, do you strictly keep things fresh with all new faces or do you continue to push for 3rd parties in an already reduced roster?

This is why the argument of every Nintendo character that’s important is already in is flawed. Because if that were the case, you wouldn’t see King K. Rool in the roster, you’d see Spring Man and Rex instead. You wouldn’t see Isaac and Skull Kid fans getting hopeful after K. Rool was shown and the Moon assist which also raised a few eyebrows. Those characters have their fans, same as Ness, Falcon and Little Mac just to use as an example of ‘important’ characters.

Even in an 88-man roster, there are still people who want their character in, Nintendo or not. But Nintendo owns Smash, so you'll have to deal with Nintendo characters anyway. These eighty-eight characters are the do-or-die definitive list of important characters in all of video games? Only everyone in the image above? Smash can never scratch the surface of video games, and the spirits mode is not a viable way of doing that, it only shows how small Ultimate's roster is. Sticker Mode did this back in Brawl, and that wasn't really a mode people were sad over losing. This is a game where Mario, Donkey Kong, Pac-Man, Sonic, Rayman, Bomberman, Akira Yuki and Kunio-Kun all come together...but the latter half mentioned only appear as cameos or costumes, never mind the ones I didn't mention who appear in the supporting role. All of the trailers showing the playable roster doesn't show the spirits or even the assist trophies. If they're a great way to add in characters who wouldn't be in the game otherwise, why not show them alongside the playable characters? Why not show how great it is to have these ten-second cameos alongside the meat of the series...unless they aren't really...

Never mind. Forget I even mentioned it.

Everyone has their perception of what Smash should be, and only one man currently has any actual power to add in characters within the mandates Nintendo offers him. But assuming he isn’t around for the next title or he decides to scale down the roster, it’s definitely clear that there’s always going to be new faces in the playable roster. Who they are isn’t important, because Smash already makes lesser known faces big, sometimes bigger than the games or series they come from and whatever the next game’s roster looks like (or doesn’t look like) is going to piss off a lot of people anyway.
 
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