Critique Super Smash Bros.

[Deleted member]

That's the design it's used since Mario Kart 7, so I don't see the issue.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

The biggest flaw in Smash Ultimate is without a doubt the blue shell. Do I really need to say more? It flies! So it shouldn't be the spiky version, but the one with the wings. Talk about a disaster.

It's called the "Spiny" Shell.

 

[Lenidem]

That's the design it's used since Mario Kart 7, so I don't see the issue.

Then it's a flaw in Mario Kart 7 as well. The flying blue shell had wings in Double Dash. That should never have changed.

 

[meleebrawler]

Then it's a flaw in Mario Kart 7 as well. The flying blue shell had wings in Double Dash. That should never have changed.

I thought that people did not like that the shell in that latter form was mostly only a tool for spite and not actually that productive in helping you win the race? At least the current one brings the best of 64's version and the flying one by letting you take out people in front while still keeping the item's purpose of keeping races close.

 

[chikin]

The fact that we have so many characters to get to the point where the roster feels.... too big. There are a lot of characters that we don't really need and it feels like they were added just for the sake of every character returning, characters such as Doctor Mario or Pichu.

Online play is horrible, you would think Nintendo would fix the lag by now, especially since we had online since Brawl which was back in 2008.

Some of the characters are horrific to go against, to get to the point where I just don't want to play online because of the risk of going against these characters.

 

[Lenidem]

I thought that people did not like that the shell in that latter form was mostly only a tool for spite and not actually that productive in helping you win the race? At least the current one brings the best of 64's version and the flying one by letting you take out people in front while still keeping the item's purpose of keeping races close.

You do realise I was joking, right?

 

[Perkilator]

Man, some of the DLC Spirit Boards feel so limited. I know the DLC team and budget are smaller, but they could've added a couple to few more Spirits to each DLC Spirit Board. Here are the ones I'd add:

Persona's Spirit Board
-Hero (Persona 3) ()
-Aigis ()
-Hero (Persona 4) ()

Dragon Quest's Spirit Board
-Dragonlord () -> Dragonlord (Dragon) ()

Banjo-Kazooie's Spirit Board
-Klungo ()
-Mr. Patch ()
-Lord Woo Fak Fak ()

SNK's Spirit Board
-Mai Shiranui* ()
-Rock Howard ()
-Yuri Sakazaki ()
-Earthquake ()
-Marco Rossi ()
-Fio Germi ()

Byleth's Spirit Board
-Death Knight ()
-Flayn ()

ARMS's Spirit Board
-Lola Pop ()
-Misango ()
-Springtron ()
-Dr. Coyle ()
-Hedlok ()
-Biff ()

*There is artwork of Mai they can use to keep that E10+ rating:
View attachment 277871

Thought I'd expand on this one critique.

 

[UserKev]

How can I write this, Pokemon Trainer is a prime example of a character that shouldn't be in Smash and completely goes against Smash logic.

 

[Lenidem]

How can I write this, Pokemon Trainer is a prime example of a character that shouldn't be in Smash and completely goes against Smash logic.

I totally disagree.

 

[Oddball]

How can I write this, Pokemon Trainer is a prime example of a character that shouldn't be in Smash and completely goes against Smash logic.

Smash has logic?

 

[UserKev]

Smash has logic?

That's how bad it is. Think about it. If Pokemon Trainer is using Pokemon to fight Nintendo icons, what fighting stance would he have once their defeated? Would he try to catch Kirby, Luigi, Toon Link, etc if he wins? Its like Pokemon all over again and the fact that Charizard entirely replaced him in Smash Wii U/3DS kinda helps my point.

Pokeballs alone already represents what Pokemon Trainer wants to bring to the table. His addition is pointless to me.

 

[BonafideFella]

That's how bad it is. Think about it. If Pokemon Trainer is using Pokemon to fight Nintendo icons, what fighting stance would he have once their defeated? Would he try to catch Kirby, Luigi, Toon Link, etc if he wins? Its like Pokemon all over again and the fact that Charizard entirely replaced him in Smash Wii U/3DS kinda helps my point.

Pokeballs alone already represents what Pokemon Trainer wants to bring to the table. His addition is pointless to me.

This reminds me of a Brawl~era argument against a character’s inclusion. I must admit I’m getting quite nostalgic.

 

[Deleted member]

That's how bad it is. Think about it. If Pokemon Trainer is using Pokemon to fight Nintendo icons, what fighting stance would he have once their defeated? Would he try to catch Kirby, Luigi, Toon Link, etc if he wins? Its like Pokemon all over again and the fact that Charizard entirely replaced him in Smash Wii U/3DS kinda helps my point.

Pokeballs alone already represents what Pokemon Trainer wants to bring to the table. His addition is pointless to me.

ah yes, because every character in smash acts and works exactly like they do in their home series

also pokeballs aren't playable

 

[Lenidem]

That's how bad it is. Think about it. If Pokemon Trainer is using Pokemon to fight Nintendo icons, what fighting stance would he have once their defeated? Would he try to catch Kirby, Luigi, Toon Link, etc if he wins? Its like Pokemon all over again and the fact that Charizard entirely replaced him in Smash Wii U/3DS kinda helps my point.

Pokeballs alone already represents what Pokemon Trainer wants to bring to the table. His addition is pointless to me.

Yeah, and everybody, including Link and Zelda, claps happily when Ganondorf wins. How logic is that?

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

ah yes, because every character in smash acts and works exactly like they do in their home series

...should they?

 

[EGsmash]

My critique is with the 8.0 patch. I feel they really shot themselves in the foot by buffing the combo potential of already combo-heavy characters that honestly did not need the buffs to be viable (Falcon, Falco, Pit/Dark Pit especially). Normally it would be 'whatever', but since almost everyone is playing on wifi right now it feels like the majority of matches end up being spamming safe moves and getting free connections into virtually guaranteed training mode combos. Granted, this wasn't exclusive to 8.0 - the faster pace of the game has always meant that online would suffer from lack of available reaction time, but 8.0 is just exacerbating this problem.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Pokeballs alone already represents what Pokemon Trainer wants to bring to the table. His addition is pointless to me.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Using Pokemon who work together as a team and switching at appropriate times are key elements of Pokemon's gameplay. Trainer is the only Pokemon character to represent that, in addition to representing the stages of evolution. They are the Robin of the Pokemon series - I've heard many people say that Robin reps FE the best because they best represent FE's mechanics. Same goes for Pokemon Trainer.

 

[UserKev]

I agree that Smash has become way too difficult. Some matches just seem impossible and extremely frustrating. I love Smash 64's difficulty.

 

[Perkilator]

I agree that Smash has become way too difficult. Some matches just seem impossible and extremely frustrating. I love Smash 64's difficulty.

Ever tried lowering the CPU level? Or the intensity for Classic Mode? Or playing WoL on Easy (or, God forbid, Very Easy)? I mean, yeah, there are some BS moments, but if the game’s truly too hard for where you are now, you should start on the lowest difficulty and raise the level when you’re comfortable to do so.

On another note, nearly a year later and I’m still kinda bummed that an influential series like Resident Evil got Spirited. If it were up to me (at least, within reason if Nintendo still makes picks), I’d make Jill CP5 and make Byleth into a limited-time Vol. 2 pre-purchase bonus (and make them purchasable outside the pass when the pass pass is purchasable).

 

[UserKev]

Ever tried lowering the CPU level? Or the intensity for Classic Mode? Or playing WoL on Easy (or, God forbid, Very Easy)? I mean, yeah, there are some BS moments, but if the game’s truly too hard for where you are now, you should start on the lowest difficulty and raise the level when you’re comfortable to do so.

On another note, nearly a year later and I’m still kinda bummed that an influential series like Resident Evil got Spirited. If it were up to me (at least, within reason if Nintendo still makes picks), I’d make Jill CP5 and make Byleth into a limited-time Vol. 2 pre-purchase bonus (and make them purchasable outside the pass when the pass pass is purchasable).

Lowering the difficulty is a cop out, especially on Classic Mode. It just makes you want to do the whole Mode all over again. I'm good enough at the game, I should be able to beat it.

 

[meleebrawler]

Ever tried lowering the CPU level? Or the intensity for Classic Mode? Or playing WoL on Easy (or, God forbid, Very Easy)? I mean, yeah, there are some BS moments, but if the game’s truly too hard for where you are now, you should start on the lowest difficulty and raise the level when you’re comfortable to do so.

On another note, nearly a year later and I’m still kinda bummed that an influential series like Resident Evil got Spirited. If it were up to me (at least, within reason if Nintendo still makes picks), I’d make Jill CP5 and make Byleth into a limited-time Vol. 2 pre-purchase bonus (and make them purchasable outside the pass when the pass pass is purchasable).

How would you reasonably include anything Resident Evil past the ratings?

 

[Lenidem]

How would you reasonably include anything Resident Evil past the ratings?

Same as Metal Gear for the playable character(s) and Castelvania for the stage, I guess. Unless zombies are somehow worse for the rating than vampires and werewolves?

 

[wizfoot]

Same as Metal Gear for the playable character(s) and Castelvania for the stage, I guess. Unless zombies are somehow worse for the rating than vampires and werewolves?

For a Resident Evil character's final smash, will they have an extreme makeover?

 

[Perkilator]

How would you reasonably include anything Resident Evil past the ratings?

Same way MvC3 did it; just make the bloodier-looking monsters grey instead of red. Maybe have their color scheme be that way to resemble monsters from old-time black-and-white horror movies.

 

[Lenidem]

For a Resident Evil character's final smash, will they have an extreme makeover?

Sorry, not sure I understand. My English-French dictionnary translates "makeover" by "transformation" but I'm not familiar enough with the Resident Evil franchise : only finished the first one and the fourth one on Gamecube, and I don't remember the protagnist transforming into something" extreme" (well, Leon was infected with something that might have transformed or killed him in the end, but it didn't).

 

[wizfoot]

Sorry, not sure I understand. My English-French dictionnary translates "makeover" by "transformation" but I'm not familiar enough with the Resident Evil franchise : only finished the first one and the fourth one on Gamecube, and I don't remember the protagnist transforming into something" extreme" (well, Leon was infected with something that might have transformed or killed him in the end, but it didn't).

No worries. It was a reference to Resident Evil 3 where one of the villains says "I got an extreme makeover!" when he transforms.

 

[meleebrawler]

Same way MvC3 did it; just make the bloodier-looking monsters grey instead of red. Maybe have their color scheme be that way to resemble monsters from old-time black-and-white horror movies.

That and Inifinite are rated T. This game is E10+. Fact is, nothing in this game bleeds or is actively maimed or herniated and including something like that, no matter how dressed up it is could jeopardize that as much as anything too suggestive.

Same as Metal Gear for the playable character(s) and Castelvania for the stage, I guess. Unless zombies are somehow worse for the rating than vampires and werewolves?

Vampires and werewolves don't actively bleed or show signs of extreme child-unfriendly violence brought upon them.

 

[Perkilator]

That and Inifinite are rated T. This game is E10+. Fact is, nothing in this game bleeds or is actively maimed or herniated and including something like that, no matter how dressed up it is could jeopardize that as much as anything too suggestive.

Vampires and werewolves don't actively bleed or show signs of extreme child-unfriendly violence brought upon them.

Your character doesn’t have to bleed to look like it’s from an M-rated game. If they do, just censor it by recoloring it (which is what UMvC3 did specifically with the Lickers).

 

[Perkilator]

Y’know, looking back, Master Hand shouldn’t have fought alongside Crazy Hand on 7.0 on ‘s Classic Mode routes. If you were going for a 9.9 run without even knowing what that route was about, you’d never know that you face Crazy Hand by himself at the end.

 

[Steelmullet]

LOL How bout the fact that you can force 0.5 seconds of input lag on your opponent if you're hosting the match, just by tweaking your internet settings? Thanks for the bully code nintendo. Remember, you can't have fun online, without first creating an unfair advantage for one of the players.

"Because inequality is equality." - Quote from Nintendo Rep

:0

 

[StrangeKitten]

FOR THE LOVE OF MARIO CAN I PLEASE NOT GET A COMMUNICATION ERROR EVERY FIVE MINUTES WHEN BROWSING SHARED CONTENT?

Also, the search system could be so much better. No hashtag system or anything like that, so I can't search up "Mario stage" and find good ones. Can't look up "Beneath the Mask" to find stages where that song is the song of choice. I can't even search for "Pokemon" within just stages. What fun it is to have the vast majority of my results taken up by replays and Mii outfits when that's not what I'm looking for, because I'm pretty sure there's a cap on how many results you get. I feel like I would see way more stages when searching for "Joker", but replays take up the vast majority of my search results slots.

Also, who thought it was a good idea to make stages unfindable after only three months? They don't outright delete, thank goodness, but you stop being able to get them through search results and their codes stop working. I understand doing this to save server space, it's just three months is such a short time.

 

[UserKev]

All Star Mode has long since lost its specialty and has been turned into a pointless gimmick. You don't need All Star Mode when you have Classic Mode.

 

[Perkilator]

All Star Mode has long since lost its specialty and has been turned into a pointless gimmick. You don't need All Star Mode when you have Classic Mode.

Oooooor we could just make it how it used to be, but change it to tackling each Smash game's fighters (the first fight would 64's fighters, the next would be Melee's fighters, etc.). Plus, the Classic Mode we have in Ultimate is different enough from every All-Star combined for the two to exist.

And speaking of Classic Mode, did I ever mention that Ultimate's should do away with the timer if we only get one life?

 

[UserKev]

Oooooor we could just make it how it used to be, but change it to tackling each Smash game's fighters (the first fight would 64's fighters, the next would be Melee's fighters, etc.). Plus, the Classic Mode we have in Ultimate is different enough from every All-Star combined for the two to exist.

And speaking of Classic Mode, did I ever mention that Ultimate's should do away with the timer if we only get one life?

I honestly tried to think of how to improve All Star Mode as I posted that critique. Glad you beat me to the idea. Yeah, that'd work.

 

[Lukingordex]

LOL How bout the fact that you can force 0.5 seconds of input lag on your opponent if you're hosting the match, just by tweaking your internet settings? Thanks for the bully code nintendo. Remember, you can't have fun online, without first creating an unfair advantage for one of the players.

Wait is this true? and if so, is your opponent the only one affected by the 0.5 input lag?

 

[UserKev]

F.L.U.D.D in Mario's moveset is poorly done and high risk low reward. Its a slap on attempt at uniqueness. F.L.U.D.D's is so laughable that he could have been better as a stand alone item.

 

[StrangeKitten]

F.L.U.D.D in Mario's moveset is poorly done and high risk low reward. Its a slap on attempt at uniqueness. F.L.U.D.D's is so laughable that he could have been better as a stand alone item.

Eh, it's at least pretty useful in Ultimate. Can frustrate your opponent if used in neutral, can wreck some recoveries. But I am in agreement that something else would be better. Maybe Cappy as a projectile, since I can imagine being able to control opponents with Cappy would be very, very unfun to play against.

 

[Steelmullet]

Wait is this true? and if so, is your opponent the only one affected by the 0.5 input lag?

Yes, depending. It is to do with which player's switch is hosting at the time and both of your internet settings. I'll try to list it out.

First to get a good game with others who have wired internet.

• NAT A connection type
• Wired connection
• Matches within your country etc for lowest latency
• Fast monitors etc.

To force the 0.5 input lag/frame lag users need to use good internet against the player, and tweak their internet settings.

• NAT A
• Upload Speed has to be tweaked to be more than download speed. So 30-100 MB Upload, Download 2-10 MBS
• MTU higher than needs to be for normal users BUT it has to be within that specific players modems/ISP range limit. So a high end modem/ISP service is needed.
• Fast Monitor.

This is how you do it. The switch favors the lowest speed internet connection, so if one person internet is bad, everyone's in the match is bad. However, that doesn't mean the person with the lowest internet speed has a "bad" connection. In some cases, it can mean it just "favors" that person.

With this setup, you are always in that "favor" and the low DL and high Upload, paired with MTU that most users can't handle without fragmentation, makes it so you always host the game, and creates artificial lag for your opponent. Which on average is about 0.25s - 0.5s of extra input lag.

I've tested this out, it works. I don't know why ppl say things like this can't be done, because they absolutely can. This is completely different than lag switches, as those just make the match unbearable for everyone, whereas the method I mentioned above can have no discernible connection problems. It even appears as smooth gameplay, just with the input lag/frame lag.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Boy do I hate how long it takes to shield if you were dashing sometimes. The game would feel a lot better if you didn't have to come to a stop before shielding, imo. That and, being unable to hold buffer shield feels frustrating at times. I land and want to be shielding but it just doesn't come out despite my finger still being on the button. Maybe it's for the best, because I know they changed it slightly because buffered air dodges offstage were happening too much. But as to that, well, I feel like I'd prefer it if air dodging wasn't as much of a death sentence. I know air dodges were overpowered in Smash 4, and I don't want to go back to those. But would we really, if we just shaved a few frames of endlag off of Ultimate's air dodges? I feel like we wouldn't.

It would also be so nice if the c-stick actually did the tilts I wanted. Being able to tilt out of dashes sounds great on paper and in practice is great for the most part, but if I press the c-stick a nanosecond too soon, guess I'm dash attacking even though I pressed c-stick down. (To clarify, my c-stick does the tilts I want in other scenarios. I'm specifically talking about dashing here).

Man, no wonder people don't love dash dancing in Ultimate. At times, dashing feels like a bit of a trap rather than the swift movement option it could be.

 

[UserKev]

Mods, delete delete delete