Critique Super Smash Bros.

[Good Night !]

well that’s cause you didn’t have as long to wait

I waited almost 2 years for Brawl and 9 months for Ultimate. I don't think that statement is true.

 

[fogbadge]

I waited almost 2 years for Brawl and 9 months for Ultimate. I don't think that statement is true.

im not talking about development time

 

[Good Night !]

im not talking about development time

I'm not talking about development time either, I literally waited Brawl for almost 2 years.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm not talking about development time either, I literally waited Brawl for almost 2 years.

so what you’re saying is between 08 and 10 you managed to avoid the entire roster?

 

[StormC]

I feel like datamines are mostly to blame for why we don't see stuff like this anymore. It is fun to discover something in a game for the first time, but when it comes to playable characters especially, that ****'ll be on the web within MINUTES of the game's release, if not before since most AAA games break street date these days.

Even without datamines someone will manually unlock all the content within 24 hours. Personally I think it's better that Smash announces all their characters up front now, it gives people (somewhat) more realistic expectations.

 

[Perkilator]

The Belmonts would be more fun to play by just making one change to Uppercut; having three grounded version do the multi-hit, but then make the aerial version cause them to travel much higher like in Symphony of the Night, but at the cost of not being able to deal damage at all. That way, you have a version that makes up for lack of height with more damage, and another version that makes up for lack of damage with more height.

 

[UserKev]

The absence of Mario's Ground Pound is a great disservice. All of Mario's moves in Smash 64 were super reliable and didn't need to be revamped. His Smash 64 Forward Smash and air Forward A needs to be brought back. A perfect example of don't fix what isn't broken.

Mario's current air Forward A down punch is an incredibly high risk niche reward. It's also completely redundant.

 

[Oracle Link]

The absence of Mario's Ground Pound is a great disservice. All of Mario's moves in Smash 64 were super reliable and didn't need to be revamped. His Smash 64 Forward Smash and air Forward A needs to be brought back. A perfect example of don't fix what isn't broken.

Mario's current air Forward A down punch is an incredibly high risk niche reward. It's also completely redundant.

In general my opinion is mario is far too complicated mario should be a very low effort character...
BECAUSE HE IS MARIO!
yet he has a down b thats useless/ too complicated for casual play, a hard to hit Reflector
and a lot of non refrence attacks!

 

[Rocketjay8]

In general my opinion is mario is far too complicated mario should be a very low effort character...
BECAUSE HE IS MARIO!
yet he has a down b thats useless/ too complicated for casual play, a hard to hit Reflector
and a lot of non refrence attacks!

Fludd is not a useless move, in fact, it's pretty good since it gives him free stage control in neutral, especially towards characters like Roy who have bad air speed.

The absence of Mario's Ground Pound is a great disservice. All of Mario's moves in Smash 64 were super reliable and didn't need to be revamped. His Smash 64 Forward Smash and air Forward A needs to be brought back. A perfect example of don't fix what isn't broken.

Mario's current air Forward A down punch is an incredibly high risk niche reward. It's also completely redundant.

Honestly, I'd rather not have his ground pound since Yoshi already has it in his moveset.
I would be very angry if Mario's forward air got changed in the next game, there are a lot of combos that Mario can do to lead into an early kill with this move. Sure it's not the best spiking fair, but it does have its uses. But I see no reason for 64 Fair to return since Back air exists.

 

[Perkilator]

NGL, I don’t really like Takamaru’s design in Smash; he genuinely looks like the generic anime swordfighter that people accuse the actual anime swordfighters of being.

For reference, here’s artwork of Takamaru in his original game, which looks closer to 80’s anime of the time.

And here’s a cropped screenshot of him in Smash for Wii U, where he looks like if Chrom grew his hair out and got a ponytail, for lack of a better term.

 

[UserKev]

Honestly, I'd rather not have his ground pound since Yoshi already has it in his moveset.
I would be very angry if Mario's forward air got changed in the next game, there are a lot of combos that Mario can do to lead into an early kill with this move. Sure it's not the best spiking fair, but it does have its uses. But I see no reason for 64 Fair to return since Back air exists.

This is a terrible quota for "uniqueness" in the roster. The Ground Pound is very essential to Mario and won't make the two any less "unique" Mario and Yoshi. Many characters in the roster share identical moves or close, which is a proper service of their characterizations then anything.

 

[Oracle Link]

Fludd is not a useless move, in fact, it's pretty good since it gives him free stage control in neutral, especially towards characters like Roy who have bad air speed.

Honestly, I'd rather not have his ground pound since Yoshi already has it in his moveset.
I would be very angry if Mario's forward air got changed in the next game, there are a lot of combos that Mario can do to lead into an early kill with this move. Sure it's not the best spiking fair, but it does have its uses. But I see no reason for 64 Fair to return since Back air exists.

Im not saying its useless its just too difficult/ non appealing for casuals!

 

[Perkilator]

I feel like some aspects of the DLC (namely Spirit Battles and Classic Mode routes) is too reliant on whether or not you have certain characters and/or Mii Costumes. For example, Sophia's Spirit Battle doesn't play Last Surprise nor does it take place on Mementos unless you specifically have Joker's Challenger Pack, and Banjo isn't a puppet fighter for Kuma at all despite them both being bears with a comedic focus.

 

[Perkilator]

Double post but while I defend Spirits for the fact of being less time-consuming than Trophies, I don't get why the former mode in the base game (not in the DLC, to clarify) is so adverse to using a fighter's default colors in Spirit Battles even when it would make perfect sense. For an infamous example, take the Mechakoopa Spirit Battle. You'd think with Mechakoopa being Bowser Jr's down special that he would be the puppet fighter for his own down special, right? Or at least Lemmy if they didn't want to use Bowser Jr., right? WRONG. The puppet fighter for Bowser Jr.'s down special...is a group of tiny Bowsers with Bob-ombs. Yes, I'm serious.

And I know what you're thinking: "But it's meant to reference the final boss of Super Mario World; you know, the one where you throw Mechakoopas at Bowser?" Well, I find that even less of an excuse because a character named Bowser Jr--you know, Bowser's biological son--can easily be the next best thing due to the Koopa Clown Car being a part of Jr.'s moveset along with "Bowser" being part of his name. I know I'm making a bigger deal out of this than I have any right to, but it's been the most confusing aspect of Spirit Battles to me ever since launch.

 

[Oracle Link]

Double post but while I defend Spirits for the fact of being less time-consuming than Trophies, I don't get why the former mode in the base game (not in the DLC, to clarify) is so adverse to using a fighter's default colors in Spirit Battles even when it would make perfect sense. For an infamous example, take the Mechakoopa Spirit Battle. You'd think with Mechakoopa being Bowser Jr's down special that he would be the puppet fighter for his own down special, right? Or at least Lemmy if they didn't want to use Bowser Jr., right? WRONG. The puppet fighter for Bowser Jr.'s down special...is a group of tiny Bowsers with Bob-ombs. Yes, I'm serious.

And I know what you're thinking: "But it's meant to reference the final boss of Super Mario World; you know, the one where you throw Mechakoopas at Bowser?" Well, I find that even less of an excuse because a character named Bowser Jr--you know, Bowser's biological son--can easily be the next best thing due to the Koopa Clown Car being a part of Jr.'s moveset along with "Bowser" being part of his name. I know I'm making a bigger deal out of this than I have any right to, but it's been the most confusing aspect of Spirit Battles to me ever since launch.

The logic behind the default colors not being used is that the default colors are the "Real" Character!

 

[TheZizz]

Mario's FLUDD might be a poor fit if it was anything but Smash...but I think giving such a unique oddball move to an otherwise "basic well-rounded character" is very much in the spirit of the game where Hero's Hocus Pocus is a thing. Where every character has something remarkable & unexpected at their disposal. If there's one thing I'd change about Mario it would be removing his u-tilt chains, I mean if Melee found a way to stop moves from combo-ing into themselves then why can't the other games? Ideally achieving it in a way other than increasing end-lag on the move...maybe raising the "knockback floor" (or whatever the technical term might be) at low %?

 

[Isaac4]

Ultimate releasing without Stage Builder and Home Run Contest just gives me a very negative look on the game from a more casual perspective. I barely touch those modes myself but I know that I would have loved them as a kid and a lot of other players who enjoy the more casual modes would have probably enjoyed them a lot to if they got to try them out when the game released. It just reminds me of a lot of other switch games that had less content than their previous entry and would add more post launch but never really enough to justify that practice. I really don't like that the Smash series seems to have been treated that same way.
Thankfully we got a lot of characters and stages after but those modes should have been there from the start.
I also think spirits turned out to be one of the most boring ideas in the series.
It had potential I think, but spirit battles are repetitive, looking at your spirit collection isn't interesting, and WoL is a story mode without a story that still takes a good while with only one really cool part where you get to play as Master Hand but you can only do it once per playthrough?? I've only gotten to play as Master Hand one time because I refuse to play through that whole mode again.

 

[Perkilator]

Something that's always bugged me about Tiki's role as an Assist Trophy is that when she transforms, she breathes regular fire when in Awakening, the fireballs fired by Manaketes (Tiki's class/species) usually take the form of an azure flame.

Her transformation in Ultimate is also kind of disappointing compared to Awakening. Compare the footage you see here...

...to its translation to Smash here, including both the transformation and the attack.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Spoiler: Lots of screenshots

Sakurai's YouTube channel is eye-opening in all the worst ways.

A lot of his videos have him criticise elements that are present within Smash Ultimate (for example, bad risk-reward balances; high lag; adherance to market research; primarily-CGI game trailers; so on), to the point where I started having a joke about him using a ghost writer, but turns out he's shockingly honest:

MAN. How depressing. This kinda cuts deep for me because I basically let my whole teenhood get consumed by Smash hype and the idea that a character being in Smash was somehow "important", something I'm already a bit sorrowful looking back on, and here's the head honcho just coming out and saying "yeah my games are just a means to an end lmao" - I don't typically care much about bad behind-the-scenes stories when looking at a game or TV show or whatever, sometimes it can even contribute to a curiousity for me, but this is just... wow. It raises many questions, but also answers many, both about nu-Smash and the flaws of the good Smash games.

And that's not even getting into his ego or the legitimately damning pro-capitalist stuff he's said.

 

[Tylerist]

TigerWoods here needs to learn to write better, can we ban the user?

 

[BritishGuy54]

I do think Smash reveal hype culture is unsustainable - not just in the sense of "it will just cause discourse" or "it's impossible to live up to", but also that it is eventually gonna slowly crumble into dust. People will inevitably wise up to the more shady parts of how Smash is marketed, the standards for popular fan picks will keep changing, (see: people being shocked by the absence of former "meme pick" Master Chief in FP2) diehard fans will grow too old to engage in hype, more promo picks will cheapen the brand to many, more (hopefully-)unintentionally-encouraged toxic discourse will make people (very justifiably) terrified of becoming emotionally invested in Smash, and the roster will eventually balloon to the point where it doesn't mean a thing anymore. Hell, some of those I already am getting a bit of a general air for, even if that could be confirmation bias on my part.

Smash really does need a soft reset of expectations going into the next game. It’s clear in previous games third parties aren’t as prevalent in the base game as compared to DLC.I know there are going to be people unironically expecting Master Chief or Kratos in the BASE roster.

It also just shows that Smash may already be stretching itself thin with pandering to so many different eras, genres, series, etc. We may have to start preparing for a Smash where seniority becomes more of a risk rather than a help, in all honesty.

On one hand, that feels like what happened to E3.

On the other hand, I think Smash will need some more serious competitors so that the vidya crossover industry will get to that stage. E3 became irrelevant mainly because Nintendo realized they can have semi-regular reveal events any time of year and many other companies followed their lead.

I think third parties making their own Smash would be a good thing. Perhaps we could return to an era where we see more localised crossovers, like say, SNK V. Capcom, or a hypothetical Square Enix crossover.

In terms of my own critiques…

• Mario should have his Ground Pound.
• Pythra should have had Pneuma.
• Tropical Resort should have been picked over Windy Hill in Smash 4.
• Mushroomy Kingdom should have been what it is, but with Melee Mushroom Kingdom’s aesthetic.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Smash really does need a soft reset of expectations going into the next game. It’s clear in previous games third parties aren’t as prevalent in the base game as compared to DLC.I know there are going to be people unironically expecting Master Chief or Kratos in the BASE roster.

It also just shows that Smash may already be stretching itself thin with pandering to so many different eras, genres, series, etc. We may have to start preparing for a Smash where seniority becomes more of a risk rather than a reward, in all honesty.

My take is that Smash should stop trying to appeal to anybody whatsoever. Old, new, obscure, popular, Eastern, Western, doesn't matter - just let the devs go crazy with the **** THEY want. I'd still have my personal likes and dislikes from that kind of roster selection, but it'd be way better than Smash's roster as it exists today, which - IMO - is a jumbled, disorganised, uncreative mess entirely as a result of character picks being chosen based on objective factors like importance and popularity. Pokemon is the big sore point for me, absolutely unjustified that every single Pokemon is either extremely popular or a starter, and most are both.

 

[Quillion]

I think third parties making their own Smash would be a good thing. Perhaps we could return to an era where we see more localised crossovers, like say, SNK V. Capcom, or a hypothetical Square Enix crossover.

They need to be more localized than company-wide; they should be intra-franchise if anything. Company-wide and cross-company crossovers are just oversaturated now.

My take is that Smash should stop trying to appeal to anybody whatsoever. Old, new, obscure, popular, Eastern, Western, doesn't matter - just let the devs go crazy with the **** THEY want. I'd still have my personal likes and dislikes from that kind of roster selection, but it'd be way better than Smash's roster as it exists today, which - IMO - is a jumbled, disorganised, uncreative mess entirely as a result of character picks being chosen based on objective factors like importance and popularity. Pokemon is the big sore point for me, absolutely unjustified that every single Pokemon is either extremely popular or a starter, and most are both.

"Going crazy" is predicated on the scenario that the Smash team (or at least their leadership) is filled with a bunch of underdog-obsessed hipsters who actively shun the important and popular characters.

Honestly, most of the characters already in Smash (even as far back as Melee when Nintendo wasn't as involved) are so ingrained in Nintendo and/or mainstream culture that I don't see "going crazy" as really that different from what we have now.