Critique Super Smash Bros.

UserKev

Smash Lord
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May 10, 2017
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#1
A post in another topic gave me the idea for this thread. If you choose to read through the thread, please leave the user alone. This IS NOT a debate thread. All users are entitled to their critiques. You can disagree by simply writing your own critique.

For my generic critique:

Smash has REALLY become a shell of its former self. Characters are great and all but seriously, where's the culture? I prefer a time when Smash was its own shenanigans and secretive. Crazy how much success can reinvent your favorite games.
 

UserKev

Smash Lord
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#3
The critique hit ratio in Ultimate is very ridiculous. Why alter the good ol' instant KO based on general percentage? What are you doing, Sakurai?
 

MacSmitty

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#5
The devs need to stop recycling so much stuff(Voice Clips, Victory Themes, and some animations), and have broader choices in stages and music. And they also shouldn't take so long to balance characters.
 

Mogisthelioma

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#6
Reusing audio from Brawl is unacceptable. They should at least give us new voice lines and victory jingles instead of constantly recycling old ones.

Obviously not spending enough time testing for bugs/glitches pre-release

Not giving a **** about the online is painful. The fact that it's almost 2020 and Nintendo is still using peer to peer connection is unbelievable.

Having this many RNG/gimmick based characters is rather annoying.
 

Wigglerman

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#7
It's a blessing and a curse. The series has gotten MASSIVE. All the issues people have with Smash is now because it's bigger and better but the team just doesn't have the time to do EVERYTHING. A roster this big = rough balancing (Though to be honest, it's surprisingly not bad this time considering the roster size). A bigger game with ALL THE THINGS means less time can go into polishing every little bell and whistle (Such as music/voice lines/etc) since that costs more time and money, so recycling is expected to some degree (And it doesn't bother me, honestly. I know some hate it but whatevs. You could use Smash 64 voices and I wouldn't give a flip because SMASH BABY!).

As much as I love Ultimate and how massive it is...I'm very much minded to wanting them to slow it down, shrink it down for the next installment. Reboot button is inevitable. It's time and it's not a bad thing. Smash has been a Hell of a ride from the days of old to now. I don't really have any real beef with Ultimate on a mechanical or fundamental level. It's a solid game that I have fun playing.
 

JiggyNinja

Smash Journeyman
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#8
The fact that, from the very beginning, short and full hop have been overloaded onto one button even though there has always been 2 jump buttons on the default control scheme.

JUST GIVE ME DEDICATED FULL AND SHORT HOP BUTTONS ALREADY FOR ****'S SAKE!!! There is no excuse for this once the controls became fully remappable.

And no, I don't have problems short hopping. In fact, I have the opposite problem. Short hopping has become such a habit that I have a high failure rate when I intend to full hop in the heat of a match.
 

Wigglerman

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#10
The buffer system is insanely annoying.
I will amend my prior statement by agreeing with this. I think this is the only glaring issue I'd have with Ultimate. Buffer is quite annoying and not sure what it accomplishes other than frustration XD Otherwise though, I'm fairly content with the game.
 

Predatoria

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#11
You would be surprised how difficult it is to balance a game such as Super Smash Bros. Many people do not know what it is like to actually try and balance a multiplayer video game. I do.

I own a video game, published on Steam, and am one of two primary developers who created just about every aspect of its design. We have about a dozen classes the user can choose from, the game is strictly multiplayer, and it does have pvp elements.

I spend so much of my time fixing bugs, trying to develop new content, and addressing other feedbacks from the community (such as major QoL issues, unfun or unintuitive mechanics, or requests for new minor features) that the balance between the various classes in the game often gets put on the back-burner.

We're just, honestly, so busy with everything else that it often gets to the point where we're like 'well, it isn't broke, let's not try and fix it,' and we leave balance in a state of 'good enough' perpetually.

Often, if we do try to release a balance patch, it leads to imbalances we didn't intend, makes other matchups worse in ways we didn't think of or recognize, or just all-around pisses players off. If somebody's 'main' gets nerfed, they scream bloody murder at us, threaten to quit, and leave us a bad review.


This is just a game with a dozen classes, where pvp is not the main focus (but part of many elements), with a playerbase of a few hundred on at any given time. I could not imagine the challenges of balancing an internationally-recognized roster that's 7x bigger than ours, on a game where the entire focus of it is pvp interaction, with actual, dedicated e-sport players and tourneys.

Right now, I'd describe Smash's state of balance as 'good enough.' They're probably afraid to make any major changes because of how big the repercussions can be. I could not imagine how hard it would be to test balance changes in smash prior to a patch release, given the kinds of insane techs, combos, and other stunts players manage to find in this game, many of which likely weren't actually intended by the game developers.

In the Ridley forums, he's a few frames away from having several really nasty combos, for example. Some of which are 0 to death, such as a triple fair train off the side of the stage and into the blast zone. All it'd take to break this character is to reduce the frame data on fair a bit, up his air speed a bit, reduce the knockback a bit on fair, or shrink its sweet-spot. Another really nasty one is plasma breath into his command grab. He barely can't do that right now as a true combo. A small buff to plasma's frame lag, his run speed, his instant dash speed, or the startup on his command grab, Space Pirate Rush, would give him a very nasty, true combo on this.

That's just Ridley. All these characters are likely like this. The interactions between them is so mind-bogglingly complex, one couldn't hope to redesign a character without seeing major shifts in balance, likely in unintended ways. You change, literally, one thing, and it can translate into all kinds of new things like 0 to death's, unfair true combos, or other forms of egregious game balance issues that are nearly impossible to find prior to releasing a patch and having high-caliber players lab it out for, sometimes, months on end.

I would not want to be the people who are responsible for balancing Smash Ultimate. I can tell you this. I bet they play the game a lot less than the people who play at the higher tiers of skill in this game, as they're too busy to get that good in the first place working on the game! Listening to the community can be very difficult too. What you often get are the loudest, most upset people screaming at you to do certain things that would upset the quiet majority. It's very difficult to come to forums or other internet gatherings to assess what actually needs to be changed to balance a video game, and most developers are so busy developing, they don't have time to play at a level where they can really understand and address the truest balance issues.



But, sorry for the long'ish rant. As for the OP, I love Ultimate. It's the first Smash game I've really gotten into, and find it to be a great way to socialize with friends and family. They did a great game on so many aspects of the game, and I can tell they put a whole lot of work into polishing it up. I'd give it a 10/10, and think it's one of the most balanced Smash games they've released (coming from the guy maining a low tier character, at that).
 
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#12
Been critiquing Smash Bros for years now, but only from a competitive standpoint. Big issues there are,

  • Balance of characters is still meh, though Ultimate has definitely surprised me overall in this regard.
  • Later smash games seem so afraid of adding onto the general formula of fighting since Melee, like new movement options or new general mechanics (not character specific ones)
  • Because of no. 2, any "advanced techniques" that pop up in the game tend to be unintended and horribly balanced (because they're unintended), and further strays the game away from the low skill floor/high skill ceiling game it's supposed to be, if only a little.
  • More universal defensive/movement mechanics to allow for easier balance of slower vs faster characters

These are pretty vague, but I'm pretty tired right now, so I don't want to go into too much detail.

Predatoria Predatoria Well said. While I have not made a game, I do study some of what happens in game design and something that definitely happens is balance is placed really low generally. However, the Smash crew most likely has far more balancers than you do in their crew and most of the balance suggestions should come less from the devs themselves and instead from top players of the game.

I'd recommend this article from David Sirlin on the topic. It really showcases how developers should not be the only arbiters of balance in their game, but also shouldn't just listen to their top players blindly. No man is an ocean after all.

BTW, what is the name of your game?
 
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Predatoria

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#13
Been critiquing Smash Bros for years now, but only from a competitive standpoint. Big issues there are,

  • Balance of characters is still meh, though Ultimate has definitely surprised me overall in this regard.
  • Later smash games seem so afraid of adding onto the general formula of fighting since Melee, like new movement options or new general mechanics (not character specific ones)
  • Because of no. 2, any "advanced techniques" that pop up in the game tend to be unintended and horribly balanced (because they're unintended), and further strays the game away from the low skill floor/high skill ceiling game it's supposed to be, if only a little.
  • More universal defensive/movement mechanics to allow for easier balance of slower vs faster characters

These are pretty vague, but I'm pretty tired right now, so I don't want to go into too much detail.

Predatoria Predatoria Well said. While I have not made a game, I do study some of what happens in game design and something that definitely happens is balance is placed really low generally. However, the Smash crew most likely has far more balancers than you do in their crew and most of the balance suggestions should come less from the devs themselves and instead from top players of the game.

I'd recommend this article from David Sirlin on the topic. It really showcases how developers should not be the only arbiters of balance in their game, but also shouldn't just listen to their top players blindly. No man is an ocean after all.

BTW, what is the name of your game?
It's a survival, dinosaur game named Beasts of Bermuda. It's been out for about 8 months now, and has been in development for about 32 months.

I'll go ahead and give it a read! I will admit, we have absolutely made the fallacy of listening to our top players. Often, the balance changes we do end up doing are presented to us by good players I was friends with either prior to beginning the game's development, or who I have met personally during the game's development. We do host balance / combat sessions, but, again, it's often with the closer-knit group of pvp-oriented players I do know in our community quite well. Recently, for example, we had a several hour session where we just discussed the state of the Apatosaurus balance and tried to come up with ways to address certain issues it has in combat while preserving other element of its gameplay and/or not influence other matchups it has that we're generally happy with. It's a tough puzzle.

What can end up happening with this dilemma is you end up balancing from the perspective of your best, which doesn't always translate well to creating a game that's balanced well at all levels of skill. Often times, the point where you're most likely to lose players permanently is when they perceive the game to be poorly balanced while being new. Mechanics and ways to combat various game mechanics that involve intimate knowledge of the game often are overlooked well before these players may end up giving up and quitting altogether.

I actually think this is one of the dilemmas Smash has with heavies. They're really good when you're new to the game because they hit hard and don't get knocked as far, but have trouble keeping up when players start becoming more aware of combos, punishes, frame data, and can exploit their deficiencies.
 
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#14
I actually think this is one of the dilemmas Smash has with heavies. They're really good when you're new to the game because they hit hard and don't get knocked as far, but have trouble keeping up when players start becoming more aware of combos, punishes, frame data, and can exploit their deficiencies.
Honestly the problem with the balance of heavies is that being heavy isn't treated simply as an attribute with both positive and negative traits, but instead as something that must be compensated for by making the rest of the character weaker for some reason. If heavies had the same ability to combo and escape combos and stuff, they would be easier to balance.
 
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#15
Only critique I have for Ultimate is I wish they gave Sakurai more time to work on base game so he could add more stages and items, even if some are just unbalanced as Hell like Orbital Gate Assault or the cracker launcher respectively. Kind of feels weird how a selling point is everybody is here and then have it not extend to the stages and items. Feeds back into how Ultimate does feel like an incomplete game at times, but it's getting better now that we know 4/5ths of the Fighters pass.
 

lucasla

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Messages
450
#16
Smash is the only game that I play in my house that has problems with the online because of lag. Most of the time that I think about playing it online, I remember how bad the system is and I feel bored just with the thinking of trying to play it and end up in a disappointing sequence of lagged matches.

I also think that all big single player modes (World of Light, Spirit Board and Classic mode), are all the same. They all offer the same quick matches with different properties, with the interface between matches being the only change. If you dont like one of the modes, you basically dont like any of them, there are three and they all feel the same, it's almost like filler content.

The game could provide better singleplayer modes, like Smash Run or Subspace, but better of course. Some mode that you take some time and walk through many scenarios, something like the final stage of World of Light, that actually does that pretty well, but is only one stage on this mode. For me the entire WoL campaign I would change for something close to the last mission of the mode, and keep the quick random battles to the Spirit Board...
 
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Swordmaster102

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#17
Remove short-hop aerial tech and I’ll be happy with the game. That’s the main complaint I have against the game, and to me it’s a big one. Not being able to perform frame perfect full-hop aerials like you could in previous smash titles is ridiculous in all honesty. This added tech in ultimate removes comboability for many characters and adds frustration when you don’t wait an amount of time before you throw out the aerial, short-hopping instead.

I’ve been complaining about this since the game’s release, and I’m not the only one who agrees with removing it. I want smash to feel as smooth as possible and this is a factor that gets in the way.
 
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Plank08

Smash Ace
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#18
I guess my only real negatives about this games are the horrendous online and that’s pretty much about it, as much as I want things like Smash Run and Sackboy, Sakurais already giving us so much it feels almost wrong to complain, I mean, we got

An 80+ Character roster of Video Game characters from all over

A full Blown Story mode

A Stage Builder and Video System

Multiple Seperate modes to pass the time

Spirit Battles

And even more in the future!
 

lucasla

Smash Journeyman
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#20
I guess my only real negatives about this games are the horrendous online and that’s pretty much about it, as much as I want things like Smash Run and Sackboy, Sakurais already giving us so much it feels almost wrong to complain, I mean, we got

An 80+ Character roster of Video Game characters from all over

A full Blown Story mode

A Stage Builder and Video System

Multiple Seperate modes to pass the time

Spirit Battles

And even more in the future!
well... if the game has everything but the online dont work, all the things they do will be much less used than it could with people abandoning the online gameplay and just playing the game eventually when they have friends around. This to me already makes the game much less playable.
The job Sakurai has to balance and include all the characters, it's part of the core gameplay. Develop a good and functional online infrastructure, it's a job for the development team, so I dont see it as asking too much from Sakurai.
 
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Ice-N-Space

Smash Cadet
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Nov 2, 2018
Messages
71
#21
My enjoymint of Smash Bros took a nosedive when Peach's character quality went down her dress animation got stiff, lost to much facial emotion, losing two of her grabs and Peach Bomber hit box is now to big.

Other things that I dislike about ultimate are

Custom stages can no longer zoom in or be played in special smash

No custom moves

Taunts got sped up

Daisy is a copy of Peach

All men DLC

No 1 VS 1 online

But I do enjoy all the music it has.
 

Coolboy

Smash Journeyman
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#22
my only problem with the game is the online..is it normal to get frustrated with the matchmaking every single time?
like i asked for FFA not 3 1v1 matches in a row -.- no i did not want 1 stock matches i asked for 3 stock matches!
it shouldn't be that hard to fix the online..i know things take time but online is a mess and they won't do **** about it cause i see no improvement..just delete the prefered rulset system if i rarely get what i asked for >.>
even GSP wise i get matched with only people almost only way above me but team matches i get matched with people that have low GSP..that can make me so angry for real because it feels like the game keeps giving me the finger.

and the lesser problem is taunting..maaan i still miss it and i wished the game would just let me taunt in QP!
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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#24
Smash has REALLY become a shell of its former self. Characters are great and all but seriously, where's the culture? I prefer a time when Smash was its own shenanigans and secretive. Crazy how much success can reinvent your favorite games.
You'll have to elaborate on this point, it doesn't make any sense at all.

My enjoymint of Smash Bros took a nosedive when Peach's character quality went down her dress animation got stiff, lost to much facial emotion, losing two of her grabs and Peach Bomber hit box is now to big.

Other things that I dislike about ultimate are

Custom stages can no longer zoom in or be played in special smash

No custom moves

Taunts got sped up

Daisy is a copy of Peach

All men DLC

No 1 VS 1 online(?)

But I do enjoy all the music it has.
Some of these just come off as petty nitpicking rather than actual critique. Peach herself has actually been made more expressive than in her previous iterations. And no 1 vs 1 online? Have you played online at all?
 
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UserKev

Smash Lord
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#25
*Sign* I prefer how Smash WAS, not what it has became to be. Regardless of what may have been best for the series, I still echo and sometimes I wish it didn't become so successful. I don't believe it needed to become this (catering) IP. Now every person in existence wants their character in the game.
 
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#26
-Classic Mode's difficulty raise is a good concept ruined by the fact that it only depends on how quick you are and how much damage you take.

-If it were up to me, I would make almost entirely new stages and any returning stages would mostly consist of those that didn't appear in Smash for Wii U (yes, specifically the Wii U version, so 3DS stages are fair game). I feel this mainly because of the meager number of new stages compared to previous games, even the DLC ones.

-Some remixes were just unnecessary, and because of that I don't like some of them. Take a listen to songs like Lost in Thoughts All Alone and the new Animal Crossing title theme and, my personal favorite--the new Duck Hunt Medley. The latter two are just faster versions of previous remixes, and the former is just a mess (to give credit, that said, I do like how the former has a bit of End of All).

-The AI is still a cheating snitch--just you TRY setting a motion sensor bomb against the CPU, sometimes I detonate MYSELF just because I'm desperate.
 

JiggyNinja

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
273
#27
-The AI is still a cheating snitch--just you TRY setting a motion sensor bomb against the CPU, sometimes I detonate MYSELF just because I'm desperate.
Every AI in pretty much every game cheats. I've had the AI in Pokken super me the instant I committed to a move, before any of the animation even started. I also zoned out an AI Chandelure by hitting it with Machamp's boulders 5 times in a row. If you don't play Pokken, that's like Bowser outcamping a Samus with Flame Breath. It takes a special brand of stupid to let that happen.

AI's have super human senses, but they're pretty much all super-humanly stupid because they don't adapt. Once you get in their groove you can exploit all their stupidities endlessly. They need to cheat to have any hope of competing against a human.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
#28
Century smash is boring

All star mode is a watered down version of its former self, now its just endless smash character edition for no reason.

Cruel smash is some bs

They could've added break the targets to stage builder. People already made creative stages with stage builder.

Training mode could've been more in depth.

Like having more options to decide how a cpu behaves, for example a cpu DI a certain direction after you throw them or them using a certain attack.

Being able to change characters within training mode instead of exiting and then reselecting the characters.

Being able to place the characters on certain parts of the stages

Smash should take a page from Street fighter and add trials.

For some weird reason the game doesnt remember what character or color you picked after a match.

Another thing thats weird is that you cant immediately exit a mode like previous installments and instead have to hold the B button or manually click on return.

Spirit battles is the definition of quantity over quality. Its a watered down version of event matches.

Wol would've been alot more bearable of these spirit battles came in gauntlets instead of fighting them individually.

The Hands are extremely cheap to fight. You dodge one attack you immediately get hit by the other hand. You get hit, you dont have the chance to di out of it and instead take 80%. You knock one hand out, you dont even get the opportunity to attack him cause of the other hand being on your case.

Challanges are uninspired.

And one of my biggest gripes is that the dlc focuses on characters instead of adding modes. Light vs Dark from Kid Icarus would've been a great addition.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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#30
Every AI in pretty much every game cheats. I've had the AI in Pokken super me the instant I committed to a move, before any of the animation even started. I also zoned out an AI Chandelure by hitting it with Machamp's boulders 5 times in a row. If you don't play Pokken, that's like Bowser outcamping a Samus with Flame Breath. It takes a special brand of stupid to let that happen.

AI's have super human senses, but they're pretty much all super-humanly stupid because they don't adapt. Once you get in their groove you can exploit all their stupidities endlessly. They need to cheat to have any hope of competing against a human.
The funny thing about AI in almost every fighting game is that they are either super incompetent or a cheating *******. There is no middle ground.

Melee had mostly incompetent AI, while Smash 4 probably had the cheapest to date. In Ultimate, I feel like they toned down their cheapness a bit, but the difficulty tends to zig zag depending of the match. Some Spirit Battles and Classic Mode matches can be very hard.

In Smash 4, the computer read your inputs most of the time so they could react to anything you threw at them. Classic mode was a good examples of this. Teams battles were the worst because they often paired you with a dumb and weak partner who died in two or three hits. Thankfully, partners are far more competent in Ultimate.
 
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#31
The funny thing about AI in almost every fighting game is that they are either super incompetent or a cheating *******. There is no middle ground.

Melee had mostly incompetent AI, while Smash 4 probably had the cheapest to date. In Ultimate, I feel like they toned down their cheapness a bit.

In Smash 4, the computer read your inputs most of the time so they could react to anything you threw at them. Classic mode was a good examples of this. Teams battles were the worst because they often paired with a dumb and weak partner who died in two or three hits. Thankfully, partners are far more competent in Ultimate.
Funny, isn’t it, when the AI seems to be completely incompetent when they’re not Mary Sue-styled, and vice-versa? Whenever I play a CPU :ultbayonetta:, they don’t even bother chaining a recovery.

Back on topic, a Classic (HEH-HUH) complaint i have with Classic in Ultimate is that most of the end bosses are Master/Crazy Hand (and yes, I respect that they’re staples) when :ultsheik: and :ultcloud: could’ve fought Galleom, :ultroy: and :ultkingdedede: could’ve fought Ganon, etc.
 

UserKev

Smash Lord
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#32
By the many instalments of Smash, remixes are becoming exhausting. With the defining Nintendo IP's I have played, Smash should feature more original battle themes.
 

boysilver400

Smash Apprentice
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Jul 7, 2018
Messages
117
#33
The patches in ultimate have sucked so far, with the exception of 3.1.0 because that was the only one to make huge changes but that patch has it’s flaws too( :ultpikachu::ultzss: and :ultjoker: buffs, along with :ultolimar: shield getting gutted). Even with them trying to play it safe, they’ve still made questionable choice for changes like the :ultkrool: nerfs despite him already being bad, Olimar’s side smash got ****ing buffed in the same patch where they NERFED :ultlittlemac: and the characters that need the most buffs (:ultkirby::ultjigglypuff: among others, but these two stand out the most to me) have only gotten stupid QoL changes that have meant nothing. On top of that, there are so many oversights that should’ve been fixed. Rockcrocking, several shields, Kirby’s entire character, most of :ultdk: moveset, Kirby, some moves still don’t connect correctly, did I mention KIRBY

Seriously, Kirby in this game genuinely makes me think this game should’ve waited another year to release. There is no ****ing reason for this character to be this bad and have so many oversights. F-throw doesn’t work on plats, Inhale is barely functional, Stone doesn’t work on shields, his Jab is dysfunctional, and he’s just SOOOOO ****ing undertuned it’s ridiculous. We’re almost a year into the game and none of this has been fixed. 5.0.0 basically did NOTHING despite so much needing to be fixed. I’m not sure if Sakurai is in charge of patches or not, and I know he’s worked really hard, but whoever is needs to get off their ass and pay attention, because there are so many issues with some of these characters.

I know this looks like an unorganized rant(and honestly, it is) but I just....I’m not enjoying this game at all with the state Kirby’s in. Beyond that, online is still terrible, some characters (:ultsnake::ultzss::ultjoker:) are still stupid and have barely been nerfed. Is it really too much to ask for the game to be balanced. Is it...?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
#34
well... if the game has everything but the online dont work, all the things they do will be much less used than it could with people abandoning the online gameplay and just playing the game eventually when they have friends around. This to me already makes the game much less playable.
The job Sakurai has to balance and include all the characters, it's part of the core gameplay. Develop a good and functional online infrastructure, it's a job for the development team, so I dont see it as asking too much from Sakurai.
^^^^^^^

And besides the single player content in Ultimate is barebones. Not to mention this is Nintendo were talking about, not some small indie company.
 
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UserKev

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#35
Guess I can't put aside my bias for classic stages. Maybe would have gotten an otherwise better "Ultimate" if the (Everyone is Here) trope was kept divided.
 
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#36
^^^^^^^

And besides the single player content in Ultimate is barebones. Not to mention this is Nintendo were talking about, not some small indie company.
Yup, it's better than Smash 4 (the Wii U version at least), but it's still a far cry from Melee and Brawl's single player and even the 3DS's Smash Run. I just wish there was more than just regular Smashing, bringing back Home Run Contest is nice, but it's too little too late.
 

Quillion

Smash Master
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Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,391
#37
I stand by my opinion that the Smash series is mechanically stagnant, and no, gimmicks such as a story mode, custom moves, and spirits do not make up for this.

We are in need of some new, yet simple universal mechanics that the game is designed around.
 

Technourgos

Smash Cadet
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Sep 3, 2019
Messages
46
#38
I'm glad people are finally leaving the honeymoon phase of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and seeing it for what it truly is. I think the major problem are too many characters. I know many will disagree. That's fine. I want a game with a smaller roster and more content. Trophies didn't make the cut this time around. I suspect that by making a lot of characters, a lot of the music took up the space. There are probably other factors. When the SSBU invitational was happening, the roster I saw would have been fine as is. #SSBsmallerroster #tiredofSSBU
 

lucasla

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Messages
450
#39
I'm glad people are finally leaving the honeymoon phase of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and seeing it for what it truly is. I think the major problem are too many characters. I know many will disagree. That's fine. I want a game with a smaller roster and more content. Trophies didn't make the cut this time around. I suspect that by making a lot of characters, a lot of the music took up the space. There are probably other factors. When the SSBU invitational was happening, the roster I saw would have been fine as is. #SSBsmallerroster #tiredofSSBU
I'm fine with a better campaign and specially a better online. The core gameplay of Ultimate is great, but because they dont provide a better way to enjoy it properly, for beyond reunions with friends, this decreases the time I could spend with the game by over 90%. If the online system - and this includes organization, modes and quality of the matches, the three pillars that are terrible in this game - I would probably play Ultimate almost every day.

The game is awesome to play locally with friends, but realistically, this happens only a few times in a year for me (and I think that most people dont have people avaiable all the time they want to play). Right now, it's 11pm and I'm in home, I would like to play online, but I'm not doing it becayuse I know I will not have a good experience, so I'm going to play another thing. All the free time I have that I could be playing the game, I'm mostly alone in my house, and I could be playing the game online. But this dont happens anymore, cause I got tired of try to find matches without lag, have to deal with many lines on the battle arenas, or annoyances in quickplay and lack of a good ranked system.

So, they created an awesome core experience, a game with many many characters, that all the free time I could be playing it properly, I dont, because the online experience is not good. Looks like everyone has to have a NASA connection to not have lag on the game, even with this game being the only one online game I have problems to play online, and I play a lot of competitive games, shooters specially with awesome connection. It is like a company that develops a game that is the best game in the world, but to really enjoy it, you must be in the moon, and if you are not there, it's your fault. So, you have that gem of a game in your house, that you know that is good, but the conditions you have to achieve to experience the game in the full potential are so hard or you have so little time to enjoy it, that the game ends up not being really explored as it could.

They can add 20 more characters to the game and my opinion will not change.. they should focus on online infrastructure, and different game modes. I dont even have enough play time online (considering I dont get excited about thinking in start the game to play online in the actual state, and the total time I expend playing with friends locally is very small) to experience the characters that are already in the game, and if they just keep adding characters, the game will never get better in what it really needs, things that will make me turn on the game more times per week and make me explore the content by playing with people online without problems or annoyances.
 
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Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,391
#40
How much will other modes add, though? I can understand improving online (which is why I was hoping for a Global Test demo), but there's only so much you can do with the core gameplay that they haven't already done. And even if they cone up with something, it will probably end up as a gimmick like Pokémon's Mega Evolutions.
 
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