CoRNERIA

[CableCho57]

All falcos hate FoD except Shiz. It's cramped with weird platforms that not only make it hard to laser but frickin pillar combo.

 

[Winston]

What? Where'd you get that from? Zhu is great on that stage and picks it pretty often, and I've never seen any good falco struggle because of FoD. The short platforms are actually great for "pillar combos".

 

[DippnDots]

My problem with the majority of counter pick stages.

All top/high tier characters already have advantages against none top/high tier characters (usually) on neutral stages, when you throw in CP stages, many of which (corneria is the biggest example) favor those higher tiered characters more so than the none higher tiered characters, even with stage bans / neutral strikings, those high tier characters have multiple stages where they can abuse the match up for an overtly easy and cheesy win.

If anything, CP stages should be there for the ones with disadvantages.

My example, Ganon vs Peach, we used to ban Mute City, and sometimes the peach would be smart and take us to Japes, turnip camp the sides with absolute ease and shoot for an 8 minute game. Never had this happen to me, but witnessed legitimately good ganon players have this occur.

Unfortunately, the dream of having CP stages favor the underdog just isnt a reality in smash.

Regardless, keep corneria out of spacies hands, keep mute out of peaches, and stay on a boat. Keep in mind, if both players agree on a stage, **** the TO.

 

[Archangel]

What? Where'd you get that from? Zhu is great on that stage and picks it pretty often, and I've never seen any good falco struggle because of FoD. The short platforms are actually great for "pillar combos".

Zhu picks FoD against Falcons or Samus but Usually goes BattleField. Watch Amsah vs Zhu on FoD lol. I play Falco as an alt and I can say personaly the platforms have cost me matches, sets, and Money.

Dots has a point. If nothing else Timing out should be banned. This ain't ****ing brawl! Fight like a man!!!!

 

[JPOBS]

how do the platforms cause you anything at all?
you play falco as an alt. read:alt, meaning, you dont play or frequent falco, menaing you probably never bother to use the stage as falco, meaning you dont know how to play it.
anyway lol, whatever, i'll let it drop, let other people continue to think FoD is a bad stage for spacies lol

 

[LumpyCPU...]

while someone brought it up, i'll say what i think and prepare to get flamed.

i think clocking someone out is hard. (mostly on neutrals)
i approve of the tactic. eight minutes is a long time when the average match is prolly 3:30 or so.

it takes a kind of patients that i wish i had. haha

i don't think camping someone out is too hard as a spacie on rainbow cruise. i don't know why more people don't do it. i don't think that stage should be legal unless brinstar and mute are both legal.

we all know mute is far from balanced so yeah.
i say ONLY NEUTRALS COUNTERPICKS ARE FOR *******

 

[JPOBS]

people dont do it cuz theres a certain level of respect we have for other players.

it goes completely against the "playing to win" mindset, but majority of people just dont give a **** if they can beat someone by making the game basically unplayable (ex. running away and the other person is helpless)

Most people prefer losing while trying to fight, than winning while making the game unplayable for the other.

thats just how we are as a community.

 

[Archangel]

how do the platforms cause you anything at all?
you play falco as an alt. read:alt, meaning, you dont play or frequent falco, menaing you probably never bother to use the stage as falco, meaning you dont know how to play it.
anyway lol, whatever, i'll let it drop, let other people continue to think FoD is a bad stage for spacies lol

You assume to much. I use Falco about 40 % of the time these days. I've played that stage 12,347 times. 4,629 times with fox/falco. It's not a terrible stage for them except vs Sheik, Marth, Ganondorf, Sometimes Doc/Mario players. It's mostly bad timing. Lets say I'm going to Sh laser>fsmash ftw and a platform comes and stops my laser. Then a falcon Stomp>knee's me and wins. That or a Marth Utilt>***** me. Either way those situations have screwed me out of victory quite a few times. With that said I've won the same way so..,.no johnnies from me.


I agree with you about Timing people out and over camping. Thats what we wanted the community wouldn't have dropped Brawl and returned to melee. Instead you'd have about 4,000 new Metaknights in the Brawl community.

 

[Armada]

TheCrimsonBlur: Kongo is not a good choice for peach.
Impossible to edgeguard people and fox can play campy . I wanna see a Peach player beat jman at that stage

And Corneria/cruise is a really bad choice to. Impossible to play Peach at that kind of stages.

1Kason1: Fox or falco player?
WHY IS MC BROKEN?
Corneria and cruise is way more broken and should NOT be allowed. i have already gave my reason why Corneria is broken.

I know MC is a really good stage for peach BUT she still have disadvantages on her BEST stage.

LumpyCPU... : Why can you not have MC/Brinstar whitout corneria? Sounds perfect to have MC and brinstar and no ****ing corneria or cruise.

CableCho57: You can see the lava so long time before so no johns. And shield the laser at corneria is not that easy when you don´t know where or when the ship will shoot.


Only shiz like falco at fod?
Calle w is really good at that stage.

 

[LLDL]

yes, There are some good falcos that liek FoD but it is mad cramped, not a fun falco stage.

 

[JPOBS]

You assume to much. I use Falco about 40 % of the time these days. I've played that stage 12,347 times. 4,629 times with fox/falco. It's not a terrible stage for them except vs Sheik, Marth, Ganondorf, Sometimes Doc/Mario players. It's mostly bad timing. Lets say I'm going to Sh laser>fsmash ftw and a platform comes and stops my laser. Then a falcon Stomp>knee's me and wins. That or a Marth Utilt>***** me. Either way those situations have screwed me out of victory quite a few times. With that said I've won the same way so..,.no johnnies from me.


I agree with you about Timing people out and over camping. Thats what we wanted the community wouldn't have dropped Brawl and returned to melee. Instead you'd have about 4,000 new Metaknights in the Brawl community.

You're right i did assume too much, sorry
but i strongly disagree that the map is bad vs sheik, marth and the marios.

the game takes away from them just as much as it does from you. For example, Marth literally cant chain grab on that map, at all. Whats more, he cant rely on "get falco on platform and uptilt/upair **** him" the way he does on BF and yoshis. the uptilts will almost never tipper because of the platform heights and they dont lead to anything because of it.
sheik is the same way. A lot of times, she cant dthrow->techchase regrab or dash attack because if you tech the platform they will miss.

anyway, I honestly think its just an age old myth that falco doesnt **** this map because the platforms "make it awkward for lasering" which I also disagree with for different reasons but thats another story.

Ganon is the only one really who Isnt affected by FoD largely because, regardless of the map, you should be ****** him, but he kills oyu in like 2 hits, so having a smaller map works for him.

anyway whatever im done here

 

[Merkuri]

All falcos hate FoD except Shiz. It's cramped with weird platforms that not only make it hard to laser but frickin pillar combo.

DRPP said that Falco ***** on that state, and he's counter picked it quite a few times.

 

[Archangel]

TheCrimsonBlur: Kongo is not a good choice for peach.
Impossible to edgeguard people and fox can play campy . I wanna see a Peach player beat jman at that stage

And Corneria/cruise is a really bad choice to. Impossible to play Peach at that kind of stages.

1Kason1: Fox or falco player?
WHY IS MC BROKEN?
Corneria and cruise is way more broken and should NOT be allowed. i have already gave my reason why Corneria is broken.

I know MC is a really good stage for peach BUT she still have disadvantages on her BEST stage.

LumpyCPU... : Why can you not have MC/Brinstar whitout corneria? Sounds perfect to have MC and brinstar and no ****ing corneria or cruise.

CableCho57: You can see the lava so long time before so no johns. And shield the laser at corneria is not that easy when you don´t know where or when the ship will shoot.


Only shiz like falco at fod?
Calle w is really good at that stage.

"Oh **** Armada gettin off"
lol and Calle W *****!!! is he really not going to Apex ?

@ Jpobs Your right I think it depends on Falco style end your center. I call what ever move you use to attack most of the time your center. In my case I prefer to use lambchops style lasers. He imo is the best with lasers. Since I'm uncomfortable lasering on FoD it throws me off so I'll probably go fox/sheik/Marth anyway. Falco's that are really good at dair/nair shine>read-tech Fsmashes seem to do just fine. I'm honestly still working on that

 

[jugfingers]

C
Everyone say "Puff and peach is to good at mute city" and yeah puff is too good anyway so that is not even a reason. And Peach is not to good at MC not even in pal and specially not in ntsc.

lol

All falcos hate FoD except Shiz. It's cramped with weird platforms that not only make it hard to laser but frickin pillar combo.

what?



FoD is a falco cp.

low platforms=broken dair pressure.

 

[Armada]

Spam_arrows : He´s not coming =(.

 

[Archangel]

spam_arrows : He´s not coming =(.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LumpyCPU...]

LumpyCPU... : Why can you not have MC/Brinstar whitout corneria? Sounds perfect to have MC and brinstar and no ****ing corneria or cruise.

i mostly agree with you about stages.
peach is good on Mute but not better than fox and falco are on neutrals.
brinstar and mute are both decent as peach against fox/falco so if you have them both, i think it's fair to have corneria also.

that way you ban corneria and they ban mute
you still have brinstar and they still have pokemon

Spoiler

and all the neutrals

yes, There are some good falcos that liek FoD but it is mad cramped, not a fun falco stage.

FoD is good for combo style falco. (aka ****)
Fod is not as good for laser style falco. (aka efficient)

if you can play both falco's really well then you are DRPP and you ****. lol

 

[Kason Birdman]

almost every falco main i have talked to loves FoD

 

[Archangel]

i mostly agree with you about stages.
peach is good on Mute but not better than fox and falco are on neutrals.
brinstar and mute are both decent as peach against fox/falco so if you have them both, i think it's fair to have corneria also.

that way you ban corneria and they ban mute
you still have brinstar and they still have pokemon

Spoiler

and all the neutrals

I lol'd Why not add a double ban to a tournament. So Brimstar, Mute, Corneria, & Stadium can be banned

FoD is good for combo style falco. (aka ****)
Fod is not as good for laser style falco. (aka efficient)

if you can play both falco's really well then you are DRPP and you ****. lol

Someone should quote this and sig it.

almost every falco main i have talked to loves FoD

2 problems
1) I'm a laser type.
2) I'm not a main
lol

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i'm HIGHLY on board for a double ban when there are more than 3 counter pick stages are legal.

would suck if durring a best 3 of 5 set, both players banned 2 neutrals and dave's stupid rule was enforced (as i think it should be). you'd end up with grand finals on all counter picks. lol

here's some ideas
- ban 2 counter picks or 1 neutral.
- ban 1 counter pick and 1 neutral.
- ban 1 stage and stop legalizing gay stages. lol

 

[Archangel]

i'm HIGHLY on board for a double ban when there are more than 3 counter pick stages are legal.

would suck if durring a best 3 of 5 set, both players banned 2 neutrals and dave's stupid rule was enforced (as i think it should be). you'd end up with grand finals on all counter picks. lol

here's some ideas
- ban 2 counter picks or 1 neutral.
- ban 1 counter pick and 1 neutral.
- ban 1 stage and stop legalizing gay stages. lol

I'm up for that.

 

[PB&J]

lambchops is good on fod and merck but the stage is still dumb the platforms are pretty good for falco

calle w does some good stuff on there like armada said.. the stage..nah its just me..im gonna practice on there right now

 

[LumpyCPU...]

the stage is just annoying if you pretend you're on battlefield.
try get used to how you'd have to play on that stage when the plats are low.
you prolly won't love it, but it'll help.

my crew usually plays with that stage off of random stage select so i suck there too. haha

 

[JPOBS]

the stage is amazing if you're not afraid of it.
but people do silly things like take it off the random for friendlies
then when they get counterpicked too it in tourny they get pooped on because "the platforms kept messing me up"

 

[CableCho57]

haha thats actually true, i do that. but with pound 4 rules and the fact that you ban a stage after you win, i never have to play there =p

 

[S l o X]

haha thats actually true, i do that. but with pound 4 rules and the fact that you ban a stage after you win, i never have to play there =p

There are so many other stages that are neccesary to ban, why would you waste your ban on a neutral that PROBABLY gives you an advantage? s_s
-
RC > MC & C.

 

[soap]

i used to take falcos to Fod and do work on them four years ago.

2 years ago, it stopped working

 

[ArstNeio]

TheCrimsonBlur: If you're going to bother to put numbers on something like this, why would you make two stages that have equal value have different verdicts? That just seems to scream bias to me. I don't mean to imply that you actually are biased or anything, and I'm sure you have some reason for doing this, but this is just my initial reaction.

Ex: you give PS and Mute City the same score, yet PS is borderline neutral and MC is borderline ban? Wut? Dreamland is "obviously neutral" and yet FoD it only borderline? They all have pretty similar distributions too. If you're going to bother doing a numbers-based analysis, then shouldn't the same numbers yield the same results? That said though, I do appreciate a sort of numbers-based analysis, and perhaps it would be worth it to refine this?


Anyway in regards to other posts in this thread: I agree with Armada on MC. I use to CP it all the time when I went Peach or Samus because everyone was like, "OMG MC IS TOO GOOD IT'S LIKE AN AUTO WIN FOR PEACH" but I never found it to help me that much. I hardly ever CP it anymore (maybe with Peach, but almost never with Samus).

I'm the only one in my group that likes playing on non-neutrals and I never go Corneria so I'm not too sure what to think about it. Grounded screw attack to fin-grab with Samus is fun. I generally am pretty liberal with counterpicks though.

 

[Kanelol]

I ****ing hate FoD so much

 

[LLDL]

Yeah FoD is fun in friendlies, i see why it's banned in some biweeklies though lol.

 

[john!]

Yeah FoD is fun in friendlies, i see why it's banned in some biweeklies though lol.

Both you and the thread title have one uncapitalized letter and it's really weird looking.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

imo, MC should be banned because puffs few weakpoints dissapear there. she can no longer be laser camped, one bair basically = death, and even the moving ground and cars wake her up from rest LOL.its not that broken for peach though, imo. it doesnt matter that it makes ONE character untouchable. most of the banned stages are because of just fox LOL.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

puff can't plank on mute city therefore it is a viable counter pick against puff.
jk

 

[Nø Ca$h]

imo

neutrals
FD
DL64
BF

counters
YS
FoD
PS
KJ64
RC

both players strike 1 neutral, winner bans 1 stage and loser takes their pick.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

not bad.

i don't support RC at all.

 

[Strong Badam]

my idea

ys
fd
bf
fod
dl64
stadium

random

no whining allowed

 

[LLDL]

Yeah, Rainbow cruise is disadvantageous to both characters. Camping stage. You can't really be aggressive if you wanted to. You are forced to camp.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

Yeah, Rainbow cruise is disadvantageous to both characters. Camping stage. You can't really be aggressive if you wanted to. You are forced to camp.

which is why its a cp.

 

[Cosmo!]

Rainbow cruise is a super legit stage, no johns

Corneria is horrible

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i like my list. it makes first match more balanced on almost every major mu. can u name a major mu where one character has a big advadtage on 2/3 or 3/3 of the neutrals i listed?

in the pound4 list, marth already has the first match in his favor. removing YS/FoD from neutrals doesnt make it unfair, it makes match 1 BALANCED. the first match should be in nobody's favor. the loser gets an advantage the second match.

boom. perfect stagelist. (sans RC maybe LOL)