Confirmed Character Discussion (Part 2)

[twilight_hero]

Has anyone considered how Aether is going to work in midair? I mean, it'll probably be the same, but you know how some change slightly in midair (well, Spin Attack is what i was thinking of, don't know about anything else--but you know, he tilts and stuff while doing it? Like, during the SA, in midair, Link tilts somewhat.). If that made any sense.

@Circus: That was a boomerang. This is a freakin' two handed sword. (And a nice-lookin' onw, I might add.)

 

[Circus]

@Circus: That was a boomerang. This is a freakin' two handed sword. (And a nice-lookin' onw, I might add.)

Your point? You told me it was a sword, which I already knew. You didn't bother explaining why that made it different.

I don't see why the logic of Link's boomerang wouldn't apply here too. If Ike were to ever truly drop his sword (though that still seems next to impossible at this point), the most sensible thing to do would be to just have a new one pop into his hand.

 

[Fartemup]

Why are so many people worried about Ike and his sword having problems?

How many times has Link thrown his boomerang, missed his chance to catch it, and just produced a new one? Sure, it doesn't make sense, but for convenience purposes, that's what happens. If something crazy happens to make Ike actually drop his sword (like that stage thing Fartemup said), I'm sure it'll just pop back into his hands (Perhaps, when Ike reaches the peak of his jump, rather than truly "catching" the sword in his animation, a new animation starts with the sword in his hand, and the animation of the sword in the air just stops. If that makes any sense).

That's just the most sensible thing to do.

That would make perfect sense, but I don't think you understood my suggestion. It would probably just make the sword disappear and reappear, but think of Ike's position. Imagine the main platform getting in Ike's way as he's falling. He jumps for the sword and hits the bottom of the platform, CLUNK! That just seems so wierd to me now... but I guess I'll have to play it to understand.

Has anyone considered how Aether is going to work in midair? I mean, it'll probably be the same, but you know how some change slightly in midair (well, Spin Attack is what i was thinking of, don't know about anything else--but you know, he tilts and stuff while doing it? Like, during the SA, in midair, Link tilts somewhat.). If that made any sense.

Ya, I think it would work the same in mid-air, but now that you mention it, Link and YLink are the only characters that I can think of that have that trait (different Up-B in air)
Hmm... give me a minute to think about that one...

 

[twilight_hero]

Your point? You told me it was a sword, which I already knew. You didn't bother explaining why that made it different.

I don't see why the logic of Link's boomerang wouldn't apply here too. If Ike were to ever truly drop his sword (though that still seems next to impossible at this point), the most sensible thing to do would be to just have a new one pop into his hand.

I don't wanna get into a fight or anything. However, this is what I have to say:

Link's boomerang is tiny and if you're not watching it, you can barely see it. Ike's sword is huge. It's a main part of him. It never leaves his hand, except during this move.

However, after thinking about it, you're right. I think everyone else is wrong. (Don't kill me.) If the sword hits the bottom of a stage, it won't go through; it'll just stop. Then he'll go after it, catch it, and die. That's what I think.

 

[Rhyme]

Honestly, gonna have to give it to Ridley. He's exactly the kind of promotion this game needs to knock Halo 3 fanatics off their butts and get them involved. More people would see Ridley as a possibility, and most, so I would assume, will doubt Dark Samus' chances of making it once this monstrosity is revealed. Then people will be all QTF when DS is confirmed Thanksgiving weekend.

I wouldn't say it's (Peach's Melee popularity) as important as you seem to believe it is, but yes, it IS certainly a factor.

There's so much to do, it's a long and hard game (heh heh heh...) and there's plenty of replay value.

I know you're not going to sit there and try to convince me Ike's uB is more like Marth's than Kirby's!

Awe aah...you did not just make a ***** joke. ((Good job.))

What do you plan to DO about it? Lol. But seriously, there are similarities, whether or not you want to admit it is something else entirely. I'll agree that it looks, and appears to perform, a great deal like Kirby's, but the similarities end there.

Marth is the one who gets rediculous vertical recovery in a straight, quick shot. He has Strong initial knockback, which it appears Ike does as well (and we know Kirby does not). Even if it is a combination of moves, this is all that is required.

The only character to get an upB change so far is Yoshi, but he NEEDED an upB change in the worst possible way. Every other character, from Smash64 to Melee, retained their upB animation and the majority of the move's effectiveness. We've already seen a select few upBs remain the same (Fox, Peach, Pikachu, Link) which gives me moderately sturdy ground to say that, unless a character was in desperate need of a new upB, it will remain relatively unchanged.

There is no logical reason to make two characters have the same upB AND, since we know Mr. Sakurai doesn't plan to change his own creation, I conclude that the upB move, of Ike, is modeled after none other than Marth himself. Combine this upB design with the myriad of other similarities between the characters - extra weight added to the end of the sword for a deadly "tipper" attack, the graceful movements and powerful postures, blustering blue hair and flowing cape (Oh yes, I went there.) - I'm thinking Ike is modeled after Marth in more ways than one and, if anything else, similar to Marth in enough ways that it would suggest the character's removal from Smash.

So, while I do not deny the similarities between Kirby's and Ike's recovery moves, I would not go so far as to say that similarities don't exist between other characters either.

EDIT: Haha, OK, so that was a HUGE stretch. Ike just seems like a nice combination of Marth and Roy, which makes it difficult for me to sit here and not think that something suspicious is going on. I know I'll laugh my actual arse off if Marth doesn't make it, especially with everyone so convinced that he will.

Also, WTF, can't say Pnis without being sensored? That's bullcrap.

Does anyone else feel that there will be glitches with Ike throwing his sword up? Possibly a stuck hitbox?
or something? because it seems likely that because he is throwing the sword and he is supposed to grab it back but if someone could disrupt him the sword might still be stuck in the air.

Well, that's probably why Mr. Sakurai "invented" heavy armor. I'd also imagine that, if Ike were rendered unable to continue his upB move for whatever reason, the sword would "magically" appear in his hand, much the same way objects like Shiek's chain and Link's hookshot simply disappear if they are struck during the attack.

Sounds like to a good way to avoid getting meteor smashed I hope there's a limit to how effective this is a higher damages or up b spamming will be prominent.

Well, if something powerful hit you like, say, Samus' fully charged shot, Ike's attack animation will probably be canceled, rendering him capable of performing his upB move again; kind of like an all-purpose meteor cancel for heavyweights. (They never Did have the best recoveries in the game, anyway.) What? You say this is unfair? Then just wait until after he jumps for his sword to punch him in his face, for Mr. Sakurai says nothing about AFTER he jumps.

 

[Circus]

That would make perfect sense, but I don't think you understood my suggestion. It would probably just make the sword disappear and reappear, but think of Ike's position. Imagine the main platform getting in Ike's way as he's falling. He jumps for the sword and hits the bottom of the platform, CLUNK! That just seems so wierd to me now... but I guess I'll have to play it to understand.

Oh, so Ike himself is under the stage? I thought you meant he was just close enough to the stage that his sword was under it, but he was next to it.

Well, I guess if he's under the stage he's just screwed, like anyone else.

 

[chansen]

Maybe Ike could have unlimited swords, all of his b-moves would involve throwing a sword. I mean, jeez, he's soooo powerful he can wield the sword one handed... Just imagine the swords flying thru the air.

 

[twilight_hero]

Honestly, gonna have to give it to Ridley. He's exactly the kind of promotion this game needs to knock Halo 3 fanatics off their butts and get them involved. More people would see Ridley as a possibility, and most, so I would assume, will doubt Dark Samus' chances of making it once this monstrosity is revealed. Then people will be all QTF when DS is confirmed Thanksgiving weekend.

I wouldn't say it's (Peach's Melee popularity) as important as you seem to believe it is, but yes, it IS certainly a factor.



Awe aah...you did not just make a ***** joke. ((Good job.))

What do you plan to DO about it? Lol. But seriously, there are similarities, whether or not you want to admit it is something else entirely. I'll agree that it looks, and appears to perform, a great deal like Kirby's, but the similarities end there.

Marth is the one who gets rediculous vertical recovery in a straight, quick shot. He has Strong initial knockback, which it appears Ike does as well (and we know Kirby does not). Even if it is a combination of moves, this is all that is required.

The only character to get an upB change so far is Yoshi, but he NEEDED an upB change in the worst possible way. Every other character, from Smash64 to Melee, retained their upB animation and the majority of the move's effectiveness. We've already seen a select few upBs remain the same (Fox, Peach, Pikachu, Link) which gives me moderately sturdy ground to say that, unless a character was in desperate need of a new upB, it will remain relatively unchanged.

There is no logical reason to make two characters have the same upB AND, since we know Mr. Sakurai doesn't plan to change his own creation, I conclude that the upB move, of Ike, is modeled after none other than Marth himself. Combine this upB design with the myriad of other similarities between the characters - extra weight added to the end of the sword for a deadly "tipper" attack, the graceful movements and powerful postures, blustering blue hair and flowing cape (Oh yes, I went there.) - I'm thinking Ike is modeled after Marth in more ways than one and, if anything else, similar to Marth in enough ways that it would suggest the character's removal from Smash.

So, while I do not deny the similarities between Kirby's and Ike's recovery moves, I would not go so far as to say that similarities don't exist between other characters either.



Well, that's probably why Mr. Sakurai "invented" heavy armor. I'd also imagine that, if Ike were rendered unable to continue his upB move for whatever reason, the sword would "magically" appear in his hand, much the same way objects like Shiek's chain and Link's hookshot simply disappear if they are struck during the attack.



Well, if something powerful hit you like, say, Samus' fully charged shot, Ike's attack animation will probably be canceled, rendering him capable of performing his upB move again; kind of like an all-purpose meteor cancel for heavyweights. (They never Did have the best recoveries in the game, anyway.) What? You say this is unfair? Then just wait until after he jumps for his sword to punch him in his face, for Mr. Sakurai says nothing about AFTER he jumps.

Yes to Ridley.

I agree about Peach's popularity.

Heheh, you said "perform..." (Sorry, I've been watching too much Beavis and Butthead...)
Anyway, I'm not gonna get into this debate.

I don't think that there's any reason he wouldn't be able to continue his uB, unless hit with a really powerful attack, and maybe not even then. The way it sounded to me, Aether is unstoppable. (Except for edgehogging...)

That's all I have to say to you.

Maybe Ike could have unlimited swords, all of his b-moves would involve throwing a sword. I mean, jeez, he's soooo powerful he can wield the sword one handed... Just imagine the swords flying thru the air.

I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous, and IMO, idiotic.

No offense, of course...

 

[Fartemup]

I don't wanna get into a fight or anything. However, this is what I have to say:

Link's boomerang is tiny and if you're not watching it, you can barely see it. Ike's sword is huge. It's a main part of him. It never leaves his hand, except during this move.

However, after thinking about it, you're right. I think everyone else is wrong. (Don't kill me.) If the sword hits the bottom of a stage, it won't go through; it'll just stop. Then he'll go after it, catch it, and die. That's what I think.

BAH! You still misunderstand... imagine Battlefield, pretend it has a completely flat bottom (will make it easier to explain). So Ike is on the left of the stage, maybe he's about to grab the edge but instead his does the Up-B. His sword goes flying up, and has now moved just a little to the right so it is above the main platform (could be significantly above, but whatever) Ike has still fallen for a total of like a quarter of a second, and Ike's position now is just to the right and below Battlefield's main platform. Now, Ike is programmed to leap for the sword (which is above the main platform) and hits the main platform in the middle of his leap since he's under it. Does he go right through the main platform so he can retrieve his sword? I doubt it, but I'm just saying it's a little hard to imagine what will happen exactly. My guess is that when Ike hits the main platform (under it) he falls to his death without the ability of doing anything but move slighty right and left (sort of like most characters falling after using their Up-B) and his sword simply disappears the moment he's supposed to be grabbing it, or the moment he dies, or the moment he re-enters.

That's the best I can explain it without pictures....lol

Maybe Ike could have unlimited swords, all of his b-moves would involve throwing a sword. I mean, jeez, he's soooo powerful he can wield the sword one handed... Just imagine the swords flying thru the air.

lol


BTW, I also thought of some characters that do something differently using their Up-B while on the ground versus in mid-air.
There are a number of characters that do not jump when using their Up-B on the ground, such as:
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Link
Young Link

I think the rest are the same though, let me know if I'm wrong...

You could also count Ness, since in Mid-Air gravity is affecting him, lol

 

[twilight_hero]

BAH! You still misunderstand... imagine Battlefield, pretend it has a completely flat bottom (will make it easier to explain). So Ike is on the left of the stage, maybe he's about to grab the edge but instead his does the Up-B. His sword goes flying up, and has now moved just a little to the right so it is above the main platform (could be significantly above, but whatever) Ike has still fallen for a total of like a quarter of a second, and Ike's position now is just to the right and below Battlefield's main platform. Now, Ike is programmed to leap for the sword (which is above the main platform) and hits the main platform in the middle of his leap since he's under it. Does he go right through the main platform so he can retrieve his sword? I doubt it, but I'm just saying it's a little hard to imagine what will happen exactly. My guess is that when Ike hits the main platform (under it) he falls to his death without the ability of doing anything but move slighty right and left (sort of like most characters falling after using their Up-B) and his sword simply disappears the moment he's supposed to be grabbing it, or the moment he dies, or the moment he re-enters.

That's the best I can explain it without pictures....lol

Okay, me comprehendy...

BTW, I also thought of some characters that do something differently using their Up-B while on the ground versus in mid-air.
There are a number of characters that do not jump when using their Up-B on the ground, such as:
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Link
Young Link

I think the rest are the same though, let me know if I'm wrong...

You could also count Ness, since in Mid-Air gravity is affecting him, lol

Yeah. I forgot about them 'cause they suck. JK.

...although YL can totally dominate Bowser....

 

[Rhyme]

There are a number of characters that do not jump when using their Up-B on the ground, such as:
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Link
Young Link

I think the rest are the same though, let me know if I'm wrong...

You could also count Ness, since in Mid-Air gravity is affecting him, lol

Bowser, Yoshi (Duh?), DK, Ness, Shiek x 0.5 (She does one of her two jumps.), Link, Y. Link, Jiggs (Again, duh?). That's the complete list. Other than that, still waiting for a response to my rediculous post. ^^

Oh, and if Ike's sword hits a surface, it should stop against it, and he should stop wherever it stops.

Something I've been turning over in my mind. The footstool jump thingy means that characters can now interact with eachother, rather than just passing through. If you don't pass through an opponent while they are edgehogging anymore, wouldn't that mean you can grab onto an opponent who is hanging from your edge, thus killing the effectiveness of edge "hogging", and possibly making it even easier to reach the stage? Just a thought.

 

[twilight_hero]

I really want edgehogging to die and burn in H3ll. It would be really funny if you grabbed onto a person hanging from the edge. I would love to see Link hanging from Bowser's feet!

 

[chansen]

I joke, I kid...

Ike's aether move could have some awesome qualties to it. For instance, someone is poised for the spike and ike can throw his sword up, knock them back then catch the ledge. Possibly taking advantage of a ridiculous amount of invincibility frames...>_>, actually, that might suck to face...possibly a broken technique already...hmmm.


I am definitely not an idiot, more of an oaf.

 

[twilight_hero]

I joke, I kid...

Ike's aether move could have some awesome qualties to it. For instance, someone is poised for the spike and ike can throw his sword up, knock them back then catch the ledge. Possibly taking advantage of a ridiculous amount of invincibility frames...>_>, actually, that might suck to face...possibly a broken technique already...hmmm.


I am definitely not an idiot, more of an oaf.

Oh, I know. I wasn't calling you an idiot. Just your idea.

Is that why your avatar is a monkey?

 

[chansen]

I picked the monkey cuz hes smokin a cig...i smoke cigs.

 

[twilight_hero]

^^^Oh...well you shouldn't. They'll kick your @$$.

 

[chansen]

I'm pretty sure evryone tells me that on the boards...its ok tho, im a superhero, we dont die

 

[Dynamism]

uh...but the people you love do...Do you really want that?

Gwen Stacey...1973 along with the silver age of comic books...

Then again, this made comic books worth what they are today...

P.S. Just because you can't die doesn't mean you can kill them!

 

[twilight_hero]

uh...but the people you love do...Do you really want that?

Gwen Stacey...1973 along with the silver age of comic books...

Then again, this made comic books worth what they are today...

P.S. Just because you can't die doesn't mean you can kill them!

Yeah! And while you may think you're a super, you're probably not. There are only a select few that are supers, and we can't believe every dork who says they are. Gimme some proof.

 

[chansen]

I can transfrom to SSJ4 if youd like me to.

 

[twilight_hero]

SSJ4? What's that?

 

[chansen]

A DBZ reference...nevermind.

 

[twilight_hero]

Okay...well, I'll need something we can both make reference to if you're gonna make a superhero joke.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I can transfrom to SSJ4 if youd like me to.

s*** you wish, anyway I wanna see peach's profile sometime this week already since snake is a 3rd party and will probably be secret and sakurai doesn't want to reveal him yet, as for supers try good old superman or spidey

 

[Dynamism]

Peach is confirmed!
F*** Peach...oh boy would that be nice...Did I post that? no...

GOOOOOO NESS!!!!!
IC's FTW though

 

[twilight_hero]

Peach is confirmed!
F*** Peach...oh boy would that be nice...Did I post that? no...

GOOOOOO NESS!!!!!
IC's FTW though

No way, Zelda's where it's at. I'd much rather f**k her than Peach.

I can't believe these words are coming from my fingers...

 

[The rAt]

****it, there is WAAAAY too much here to respond to right now, and I can't even get through the first couple of pages since the last time I posted, so I'm going to just respond to a few choice bits.

...

Well, I do. Even though I play Peach (who is flawed in her own right, by the way), I sympathize with the plights of the fans of Bowser, Mewtwo and any other character that was unnecessarily subpar. I would love to see a more balanced game.

Hey, at least those characters started out flawed. My character got weakened because folks couldn't understand his greatness.

"That's not ironic, it's just coincidental."

Can you guess which show this is from? Or, better yet, who says it? The episode, perhaps...

Okay, so its from a ways back, but I just read your quote. It's from Futurama, and it's spoken by Bender to the Robot Devil in The Devil's Hands are Idle Playthings. One of my favorite episodes, btw. And yes, I am an incredible nerd.

The rAt: I must unreasonably insist that all voices assure me that "The rAt's Doominators" exists, both in part AND in full. Such a group should be so amazing that even the paradoxical first and second voice can agree.

I don't even know how to begin to understand what you just said.

I'll be back with a somewhat more constructive post once I've had time to read some of what's been said more recently. Right now my brain needs a break and Last Comic Standing is starting soon.

EDIT: Not again... **** fonts!

 

[twilight_hero]

Dude, rAt, if you were on more, this wouldn't happen to you...

 

[OmegaXXII]

Peach is confirmed!
F*** Peach...oh boy would that be nice...Did I post that? no...

GOOOOOO NESS!!!!!
IC's FTW though

Peach is way better than Ness so.. F*** Ness, Peach FTW!!! and as for Ice Climbers, it is getting very unlikely for us to see them in, after all they were lacking fandom which makes me think they are not returning as well as Pichu, YLink, Roy, and Dr.Mario

 

[twilight_hero]

Peach is way better than Ness so.. F*** Ness, Peach FTW!!! and as for Ice Climbers, it is getting very unlikely for us to see them in, after all they were lacking fandom which makes me think they are not returning as well as Pichu, YLink, Roy, and Dr.Mario

I wish it weren't so likely that YL weren't returning. I'm sure I've said it before, but he was my main. I will be very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, VERY sad when we don't see him.

...I may even cry...

 

[chansen]

What if he's windwaker link with a completely different moveset?
He could end up sucking majorly if he had the WW moveset, IMO.

 

[OmegaXXII]

^^ trust me, we may never see him again

 

[twilight_hero]

What if he's windwaker link with a completely different moveset?
He could end up sucking majorly if he had the WW moveset, IMO.

Really? I think he'd be even better. And if they wanna keep some form of YL in without any clones this time, he's a definite possibility.

^^ trust me, we may never see him again

I know we might not, but what I said to chansen also applies to you.

 

[chansen]

But theres so many cooler characters to sample from, instead of a younger version of a Link they already have they could put in Skull kid, Wolf Link/Midna, Vaati, Mask Salesman (?), the list goes on.

But don't get me wrong, I play my fair share of young link and wouldn't mind him in brawl, just with a hylian shield and the MM kokiri sword. I still think WW link would be lame.

 

[Dynamism]

WWLink will be a bouncy little rabbot agile Link just like YLink. Sure his MS will probably DYNAMICALLY change but it'll still be the same "feel"as young link...

 

[twilight_hero]

But theres so many cooler characters to sample from, instead of a younger version of a Link they already have they could put in Skull kid, Wolf Link/Midna, Vaati, Mask Salesman (?), the list goes on.

But don't get me wrong, I play my fair share of young link and wouldn't mind him in brawl, just with a hylian shield and the MM kokiri sword. I still think WW link would be lame.

All right, now you've done something that'll make me make another moveset...for a version of Link from MM this time...I'll add a link to my sig, so stay tuned...

 

[OmegaXXII]

WWLink wouln't be bad at all, after all he is recently new character and would probalby fit great with a good moveset, but yea other characters such as skull kid or midna could definetly be a better replacement for Ylink

 

[Dynamism]

Midna wouldn't really be "replacing" Ylink. They're nothing alike!

WWLink needs to be there cause (chances are) Ylink is out and they can't just "remove" a Link without being refueled with another!

 

[twilight_hero]

Midna wouldn't really be "replacing" Ylink. They're nothing alike!

WWLink needs to be there cause (chances are) Ylink is out and they can't just "remove" a Link without being refueled with another!

Exactly. I love you and you should marry me.

...not really...

 

[OmegaXXII]

that's my point they are nothing alike, which would be even better if Midna got a better moveset, as for having another link, i guess it won't be bad, as long as they don't have similar movesets