Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Kellojolly]

I hope they won't nerf anything, unless they are willing to make proper adjustments with buffs if needed. There are characters with some strong moves but I don't find anyone too dominant at the moment. Better way to say it is, I don't know if there is any character that is overly dominant since I'm still learning about the new game/meta. They should give us a little more time to figure the game out. But if they do balance characters, which I wouldn't be surprised of, I wonder who they will adjust.

 

[Rizen]

Nerfs at this point would be a terrible idea.

Here's a good example of why YL's bombs are so great. I was fighting Puff and got my shield broken by pound. Fortunately the bomb I was holding exploded and saved me from a guaranteed rest. The fuse makes them great in disadvantage. Pound does massive shield damage; that caught me by surprise.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I just want the patch to reduce the input latency.

 

[MG_3989]

Why does everyone think the patch is gonna include nerfs and balance changes? It might just be some minor fixes to parts of the game that need to be fixed and glitch patching

 

[Frihetsanka]

Why does everyone think the patch is gonna include nerfs and balance changes? It might just be some minor fixes to parts of the game that need to be fixed and glitch patching

Because they're calling it 2.0.0, which implies that it's a fairly major patch.

 

[Rocketjay8]

For those worrying about nerfs to characters like K Rool and the Belmonts:

"Besides campy players, Sakurai talked about Elite Smash and character tiers, which are handled by the monitor team and balancing team. Sakurai said that these teams no longer refer to feedback on the Internet to balance characters, and Sakurai once regretted listening to players on the Internet to balance fighters in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U."

Source: https://nintendosoup.com/sakurai-wanted-to-punish-campy-players-in-smash-bros-ultimate/

If this is true then we don't have to worry about Inkling or Chrom getting nerfed to hell. On the other hand, most characters that may need a buff like Kirby, Rosa, and Shiek might get left in the dust.

 

[Kellojolly]

For those worrying about nerfs to characters like K Rool and the Belmonts:

"Besides campy players, Sakurai talked about Elite Smash and character tiers, which are handled by the monitor team and balancing team. Sakurai said that these teams no longer refer to feedback on the Internet to balance characters, and Sakurai once regretted listening to players on the Internet to balance fighters in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U."

Source: https://nintendosoup.com/sakurai-wanted-to-punish-campy-players-in-smash-bros-ultimate/

If this is true then we don't have to worry about Inkling or Chrom getting nerfed to hell. On the other hand, most characters that may need a buff like Kirby, Rosa, and Shiek might get left in the dust.

With this source, which characters do you expect to get nerfs? And which characters would you expect to get buffs?

 

[MG_3989]

Because they're calling it 2.0.0, which implies that it's a fairly major patch.

Maybe it’ll be a huge fix for online (I can dream, right?). Maybe they’ll change some of the input problems some people have been complaining about. Or maybe they’ll give us a new mode or something else big. This is just being hopeful though

I mean luckily I don’t have to worry about them messing with Ness but I honestly agree with the majority and don’t wanna see any balance changes right now unless they’re minor tweaks to the properties of some moves or maybe some buffs to useless characters. Nerfs right now is definitely jumping the gun. I’d hate to see this game become like Overwatch where they make major balance changes every update (granted they usually don’t kill characters)

 

[DJ3DS]

On the topic of balance changes, I personally welcome them.

This isn't a case of having a personal nerf wishlist, either. The game has only been out for two months, but that's two months more information than they had before the fact. Balance is iterative and though I doubt a balance patch will make things perfect I do think that, on balance, it will move us in the right direction, especially now we know Sakurai isn't just going to nerf an already bad character people hadn't figured out how to fight yet.

 

[MG_3989]

On the topic of balance changes, I personally welcome them.

This isn't a case of having a personal nerf wishlist, either. The game has only been out for two months, but that's two months more information than they had before the fact. Balance is iterative and though I doubt a balance patch will make things perfect I do think that, on balance, it will move us in the right direction, especially now we know Sakurai isn't just going to nerf an already bad character people hadn't figured out how to fight yet.

I just think it’s too early and the game in its current state right now is pretty balanced with a wide array of characters winning tournaments and doing well online. Yeah of course we’re gonna get balance patches eventually and of course they’re needed to sustain a game in the long run but I’m just worried they’re gonna slowly make the game more boring with less options. Also deleting replays makes no sense to me

 

[Yonder]

For those worrying about nerfs to characters like K Rool and the Belmonts:

"Besides campy players, Sakurai talked about Elite Smash and character tiers, which are handled by the monitor team and balancing team. Sakurai said that these teams no longer refer to feedback on the Internet to balance characters, and Sakurai once regretted listening to players on the Internet to balance fighters in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U."

Source: https://nintendosoup.com/sakurai-wanted-to-punish-campy-players-in-smash-bros-ultimate/

If this is true then we don't have to worry about Inkling or Chrom getting nerfed to hell. On the other hand, most characters that may need a buff like Kirby, Rosa, and Shiek might get left in the dust.

This has me worried. The internet had some very valid complaints for nerfs in smash 4 that were addressed well with patches. If there wasn't any vocal outcry, we could have been dealing with pre patch Sheik, Diddy, or Luigi still. And nerfs have been done fine, no one dropped below High tier at all. Internet wasn't always perfect (nerfing little mac side b was a VERY poor decision) but good for the most part. Balancing team may just pull online usage stats to make changes, then characters like Ganondorf,who is overused online,could get hit unfairly. Asking professional players could be good too, but biases may come from a smaller census to benefit themselves.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I’d hate to see this game become like Overwatch where they make major balance changes every update (granted they usually don’t kill characters)

What works for Overwatch doesn't necessarily work for Smash. In Overwatch, switching mains is easy, and many players play multiple characters anyway. In Smash, most players play one or two characters and switching to another main takes some time.

 

[MG_3989]

What works for Overwatch doesn't necessarily work for Smash. In Overwatch, switching mains is easy, and many players play multiple characters anyway. In Smash, most players play one or two characters and switching to another main takes some time.

That’s kind of what I was getting at. This is a game that should be buffed and nerfed very carefully and only when needed imo

 

[Nobie]

If there's any character that's getting minor buffs, my money is on Sheik.

You know exactly why they toned her down from previous games: she is always suspect #1 when it comes to gatekeeping lower tiers. However, it feels like they took away just a liiiittle too much, and left a character that lab monsters don't even want to touch because the damage output isn't worth their while. I could see Sheik getting at least one or two tools back, but still maybe not having many reliable kill confirms.

 

[Rizen]

With this source, which characters do you expect to get nerfs? And which characters would you expect to get buffs?

I hope Link doesn't get nerfed because he's so overhyped.


Is it possible Ness' results are being skewed by Awestin? I know Ness has other players but Awestin always seems to win in Texas (except once vs Trela). He attends many 150ish player tournaments there but from what I heard doesn't travel. It's possible he's a big fish in a relatively small pond.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Hoping that no one recieves any nerfs is a bit unrealistic. We may think its too early but if the balance team thinks they see an issue they're going to fix it. I athink saying "it's too early for nerfs, buff instead" is especially. You can't expect one without they other.

Instead let's hope for no significant nerfs that effect how a character is played in a major way. I hope they play it safe and just leave it to little tweaks rather then neutering character's entire kits. If for instance they decided to nerf Ime's nair (I personally think they shouldn't, but this is a hypothetical scenerio) then maybe just add a couple frames to start up but leave all of the combos intact for instance. I hope we just get tiny tweaks like that.

 

[MG_3989]

If there's any character that's getting minor buffs, my money is on Sheik.

You know exactly why they toned her down from previous games: she is always suspect #1 when it comes to gatekeeping lower tiers. However, it feels like they took away just a liiiittle too much, and left a character that lab monsters don't even want to touch because the damage output isn't worth their while. I could see Sheik getting at least one or two tools back, but still maybe not having many reliable kill confirms.

This I definitely wouldn’t mind. Same for Rosa (even though I’m a Ness main I know she objectively needs help), Bayo, and Corrin

I hope Link doesn't get nerfed because he's so overhyped.


Is it possible Ness' results are being skewed by Awestin? I know Ness has other players but Awestin always seems to win in Texas (except once vs Trela). He attends many 150ish player tournaments there but from what I heard doesn't travel. It's possible he's a big fish in a relatively small pond.

Nah Awestin is legit. That’s not saying he’s getting a lot of wins on being the best player in his region by far tho. He’s beaten a lot of top tier players including MVD and Bestness in grand finals sets. He just doesn’t travel so we’ll never know how good he actually is (I think he’d place well in majors if he did). The way he plays Ness is extremely aggressive and hard to deal with. While Ness is a good character in this game and he’s winning a lot there is no way he deserves nerfs. Just nerfing every high tier character who’s currently trending well is a terrible idea. I really hope they take all this into account. Most of the dominant Ness players are outliers not the norm and he’s one of the last characters who needs a nerf. I’d be super super pissed lol

 

[Nate1080]

I just want the patch to reduce the input latency.

In addition to this, it would be nice to add in CPU replay to training mode, as well as a visualization of hit/hurtboxes and the abilty to swap characters without having to quit training mode.

 

[Thinkaman]

Late, but the next person who starts talking exclusively about Smash 4 in the Ultimate CCI thread is getting shot.

Also, obligatory reminder that There is nothing sacred about Version 1.2.0. The idea that change is bad until some random amount of months is nonsense.

Internally, they no doubt update the balance at least weekly. We just get the latest when they push a content update out. The version of the game we are playing is already outdated, so to speak, and I look forward to playing the updated one that has improved balance and more characters.

 

[trickroom]

I see melees top 100 or so players, where fox is the #1 character but not by a huge margin, and you legit have like 40% of top players using him. That makes sense, a top tier should.

While Brawl never had a top 100 list, look at results form big touraments at the end of the games like Apex 2014. 24/64, 37.5% of players mained MK. Again, expected for a top tier.

For the final PGR 50 in smash wii U we had 7.... 7 out of 50, 14% of top players mained bayonetta. This is NOT what a top tier spread should look like.

If people see the unaimous, unquestioned #1 character in the game only having a pathetic 14% useage rate among top players and go 'seems fine to me' then I've got nothing to say. But it is completely out of the ordinary by fighting game standards. The argument can be made that in a game with 58 characters, of course one particular characters usage will be low. Except this wasn't just any one normal character... it was the character miles above the rest of the cast.

Bayonettas top-level usage was far below any statistically significant level. There has to be a reason for it. It's also quite telling that of the top 10 PGR ranked players, 4 were bayonetta. So we have quite a typical top tier spread only among the highest possible level, but incredibly poor below that. Really makes you question if the only reason there were so many there, but not in the lower ranks, was because once a top player picked her up, their results absolutely skyrocketed. Hmm I wonder who that sounds like *cough*salem*cough*zack*cough*lima*cough*

You're right in that when the statistics are analyzed, there must be some factor differentiating Sm4sh Bayonetta from Brawl MK and Melee Fox, but who says it has to be community stigma? That argument underestimates the ability of people to change their character, and also the willingness of people to change their character. Bayonetta came in the last DLC pack, pretty far into Sm4sh's lifespan. Everyone who was good enough to be a competitive player, whether they be a top 10 veteran or just some local monster/wifi warrior (i.e. Bayo mains before the character was released) already had some character, typically another top tier with a strong capability to win, who they already liked and had sunken hundreds if not thousands of hours into. The idea that some 40% of the playerbase is going to abandon the top tiers they already know how to use for another character when that character is entering the game 2 years late and when most of their playstyles and favorites are completely, irreconciliably different is unreasonable to imagine. I think the way a disproportionate amount of Bayo players used to play Peach is already evidence of a playstyle factor being involved. The fact that she is DLC matters a lot.

Not only that, but I think it is dishonest to say that there wasn't some grand stigma around Meta Knight in Brawl. I want a Brawl vet to chime in on this as verification, but I'm fairly sure the things people said about MK online and even in-person were just as bad if not worse than the stuff people said about Bayonetta more recently. Look at the YouTube comments on Meta Knight VODs from 10 years ago. Listen to the stories. If we're calling the way people treated Bayonetta a stigma affecting character choice, than why wouldn't Meta Knight go the same way?

Also, nitpick: There was a top 100 ranking at the end of Brawl's life with equivalent prestige and accuracy. (https://www.ssbwiki.com/2014_SSBBRank) your stats were about the same, though: approx. 40% of the list has Meta Knight in it.

 

[KakuCP9]

I think there's two changes we should look for in order to determine whether the dev team is beyond a shadow of a doubt going to maintain a consistent design goal for the game. Peach's float aerials and Ken's shoryuken. The former openly operates out side of the scope of the game due to bypassing the x0.8 multiplier on short hop aerials and latter is finicky from a purely mechanical standpoint. If they don't have a handle on the game on a least a mechanical level, then you really shouldn't expect them to make decisions that enrich the metagame outside of emergency fixes.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I am kind of predicting that this patch 2.0.0 will be simple tweaks to a few characters, whether it is mechanical or aesthetic, as well as bug fixes and further improving online. I am personally not expecting the patch to add much at all like in patch 1.2.0. I think the main reason why it is patch "2.0.0" instead of "1.3.0", is that there is a good chance Piranha Plant is going to be available with this patch.

You're right in that when the statistics are analyzed, there must be some factor differentiating Sm4sh Bayonetta from Brawl MK and Melee Fox, but who says it has to be community stigma? That argument underestimates the ability of people to change their character, and also the willingness of people to change their character. Bayonetta came in the last DLC pack, pretty far into Sm4sh's lifespan. Everyone who was good enough to be a competitive player, whether they be a top 10 veteran or just some local monster/wifi warrior (i.e. Bayo mains before the character was released) already had some character, typically another top tier with a strong capability to win, who they already liked and had sunken hundreds if not thousands of hours into. The idea that some 40% of the playerbase is going to abandon the top tiers they already know how to use for another character when that character is entering the game 2 years late and when most of their playstyles and favorites are completely, irreconciliably different is unreasonable to imagine. I think the way a disproportionate amount of Bayo players used to play Peach is already evidence of a playstyle factor being involved. The fact that she is DLC matters a lot.

Not only that, but I think it is dishonest to say that there wasn't some grand stigma around Meta Knight in Brawl. I want a Brawl vet to chime in on this as verification, but I'm fairly sure the things people said about MK online and even in-person were just as bad if not worse than the stuff people said about Bayonetta more recently. Look at the YouTube comments on Meta Knight VODs from 10 years ago. Listen to the stories. If we're calling the way people treated Bayonetta a stigma affecting character choice, than why wouldn't Meta Knight go the same way?

Also, nitpick: There was a top 100 ranking at the end of Brawl's life with equivalent prestige and accuracy. (https://www.ssbwiki.com/2014_SSBBRank) your stats were about the same, though: approx. 40% of the list has Meta Knight in it.

Honestly, being DLC isn't really that big for Bayonetta. She was out for more than two years, one patch before the one where modern SSB4 truly started (1.1.5). She has a wacky playstyle and moveset that simply doesn't suit a lot of players, so I kind of doubt she would get the benefit of getting picked more over if she was at the base game (plus, pre-patch Diddy was much easier and less awkward to pick up).

 

[Frihetsanka]

Also, obligatory reminder that There is nothing sacred about Version 1.2.0.

Agreed, I think the issue isn't as much "balancing is bad" but "they might nerf the wrong characters". Perhaps they won't and end up only making reasonable nerfs, but it's also possible they nerf the wrong characters or moves. Anyway, I propose we move on from "I hope they don't nerf x" or "I hope they buff y", since it doesn't really add much to the discussion and is fairly speculative. I highly doubt the balancing team is following this thread, so even if we somehow manage to give good suggestions on what to nerf/buff it's unlikely to really matter. Instead, I propose we focus on discussing the game as it is right now, not what it might look like in a few weeks. If things change, then we can talk about it then.

 

[Gearkeeper-8a]

The fact that this game doesn't have a brawl Mk or prepatch diddy equivalent, in a +60 roster should tell you enough about the quality of the balance team, of course there can be some errors, but is not like smash players aren't know to make memes and be outraged about any negative perceived change, hell even when they make good chances normally the respond is hahaha is was right or they weren't fast enough so still bad.

 

[Rocketjay8]

With this source, which characters do you expect to get nerfs? And which characters would you expect to get buffs?

For Buffs:

• Sheik's fair gets some damage buffs and gets rid of that blind spot.
• Fix Zelda's Nair and maybe a run speed buff.
• Fix Olimar's parry so that he won't be punished for using a mechanic properly.
• Incinerator gets a tiny movement speed buff.
• Isabelle's down b sets up a bit faster

For Nerfs:

• Chrom's upb will kill him first
• Inkling's roller might get it's bury time reduced at lower percents but still is long enough at high percents to still make it useful.

 

[Omnos]

It sure would be nice if Isabelle's Lloyd trap wasn't destroyed by literally anything so easily. Make it actually useful like snakes c4.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Chrom's upb will kill him first

But not Ike's, right

Honestly I hope they keep Aethercide/whatever Chrom's version is (Chromakaze?) and just fix Ganon's and Bower's suicides. Actually, I don't want any nerfs, at least not yet. I still think it's too early for that.

Wavelanding off a platform would be really nice, too.

 

[Krysco]

Just to give an idea from the previous Smash game, Smash for 3DS first released in Japan on September 13th, 2014 and then everywhere else the following October (except for Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea apparently) and the first patch to change characters was 1.0.4 which released on November 17/18 2014. 1.0.4 made changes to 44 characters (some just bug fixes but also buffs and nerfs). Just over 2 months of the game being out in Japan and a month and a half for everyone else. We're in a very similar timeframe right now with Ultimate's release so nerfs and buffs should be expected.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Just to give an idea from the previous Smash game, Smash for 3DS first released in Japan on September 13th, 2014 and then everywhere else the following October (except for Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea apparently) and the first patch to change characters was 1.0.4 which released on November 17/18 2014. 1.0.4 made changes to 44 characters (some just bug fixes but also buffs and nerfs). Just over 2 months of the game being out in Japan and a month and a half for everyone else. We're in a very similar timeframe right now with Ultimate's release so nerfs and buffs should be expected.

Something important to note is that the dev team is more into the competitive scene than back then. Unlike previous Smash entries, the game is built with a competitive scene in mind, so may be different this time around.

Or maybe you are right, and they do have more drastic balance changes this time around. At this point, only time will tell.

 

[ShneeOscar]

But not Ike's, right

Honestly I hope they keep Aethercide/whatever Chrom's version is (Chromakaze?) and just fix Ganon's and Bower's suicides. Actually, I don't want any nerfs, at least not yet. I still think it's too early for that.

Wavelanding off a platform would be really nice, too.

Why do we have a problem with Chrom's Up-B but not Ike's? And Bowserside should definitely kill Bowser first, as he can initiate it on-stage and doesn't die if it whiffs. Gannon's is tricky. In Smash 4 a lot of Gannondorfs would camp the ledge when their opponent got to their last stock, which is not something that should be promoted.

 

[Captain Sa10]

Why do we have a problem with Chrom's Up-B but not Ike's? And Bowserside should definitely kill Bowser first, as he can initiate it on-stage and doesn't die if it whiffs. Gannon's is tricky. In Smash 4 a lot of Gannondorfs would camp the ledge when their opponent got to their last stock, which is not something that should be promoted.

That’s not what he’s saying.

He’s saying why take that from Chrom when Ike doesn’t die first too.

Also Cloud as well..technically

 

[ShneeOscar]

That’s not at all what he’s saying.

He’s saying why take that from Chrom when Ike doesn’t die first too.

And technically Cloud as well.

I see. In that case I agree that any suicide move where a whiff results in the user dying should always kill the victim first.

 

[Rizen]

My problem with "Chromekaze" is it works at 0%. Command grabs can be mashed out of (except Bowser's but the opponent can move it if they're at a lower %, right?). I don't care if the opponent's at high or even mid damage and they die first but it should at least be knock back based.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

Why do we have a problem with Chrom's Up-B but not Ike's? And Bowserside should definitely kill Bowser first, as he can initiate it on-stage and doesn't die if it whiffs. Gannon's is tricky. In Smash 4 a lot of Gannondorfs would camp the ledge when their opponent got to their last stock, which is not something that should be promoted.

Chrom has setups into his suicide up b and I don't believe Ike does which is usually the issue. I'm personally not a fan of suicide Up B's killing the victim before the attacker and its strange they didn't make them all that way seeing how they made it an effort to remove a lot of the jank from smash 4.

Regarding the patch, I don't mind balance adjustments but I don't blame people for being anxious about it, the game is new and nothing seems overtly broken or overtly underpowered (under powered characters for sure but not at levels they simply cannot function) yet and people want to learn the game for what it is instead adjusting so suddenly to the new changes. I wouldn't mind another month or two of the current build to continue to learn it there are a lot of MUs I've hardly had the chance to play in meaningful practice.

 

[LancerStaff]

I just want the patch to reduce the input latency.

Don’t get your hopes up. People have been asking for input lag fixes on like every Switch game and they’re not getting fixed. It’s likely inherent to the console.

Something important to note is that the dev team is more into the competitive scene than back then. Unlike previous Smash entries, the game is built with a competitive scene in mind, so may be different this time around.

Why do people say this? Like seriously, why. It’s just blatantly untrue at this point. Whenever we get a new game people always act like the previous wasn’t supposed to be competitive but this one magically is. Maybe they’re all just not? Food for thought.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Chrom has setups into his suicide up b and I don't believe Ike does which is usually the issue

Ike has nair > aether at the ledge.

 

[Lavani]

As I understand it Chrom/Ike suicides kill the opponent first because getting spiked past a certain launch speed (looking at their upBs, roughly considering "balloon knockback" and the fact that untechables exist at the same speed, I'd guess 6?) causes the game to use the bottom of the screen instead of the bottom blast zone as the kill zone. Suicide throws result in the grabber dying first, as there isn't launch speed involved there, and Cloud dies first with his upB because it has nearly half the knockback of Chrom/Ike's. The latter two could have their falling knockback reduced, but I'm guessing it's coded at what it is to make the final hit connect consistently, so it'd probably have to come with a fallspeed nerf on the ender attached and make the characters far easier to edgeguard when recovering high as a result. Short of that, giving all suicide kills consistency would entail one of the following:

1. All suicides kill the opponent first - As things previously existed this way then were changed to how they are, this isn't likely
2. The blast zone launch speed mechanic is altered/removed - I'm not honestly sure how big a difference this makes outside of the given scenario anyway, so this might not be bad? I get the feeling there'd be some edge cases where characters with godly recoveries might be able to make it back after spikes that current mechanics ensure kills on, but...6 launch speed isn't slow.

I don't have too much of an opinion on which way things should go, but I do think grabs killing the user first is fair considering it's an option that beats shield and can drastically alter how the last stock is played when available as an option. Rise-and-fall upBs could go either way, but I can see validity in wanting them to at least be consistent relative to each other.

Fun fact, the spike hit on Ike's upB has slightly stronger knockback than Chrom's.

Why do people say this? Like seriously, why. It’s just blatantly untrue at this point. Whenever we get a new game people always act like the previous wasn’t supposed to be competitive but this one magically is. Maybe they’re all just not? Food for thought.

While it doesn't explicitly confirm or deny anything, having notable competitive players credited for QA (aMSa, Ranai, 9B, Earth) does suggest they're at least looking in that direction.

 

[trickroom]

I can't help but agree with KuroganeHammer when I see the thing about Sakurai regretting listening to the internet with regard to patches.

weird that he expresses regrets on this when I think Smash 4's balance patches were quite well done. Pretty much every nerf/buff was absolutely deserved.

— Kurogane Hammer (@KuroganeHammer) January 21, 2019

Obviously there were bad decisions peppered in there throughout (epic greninja meme hehexd, some of the nerfs to bad characters, not making a second bayo nerf patch [but that gets a pass because they were just sick of working on the damn game]) but I hope the design philosophy isn't drastically changed when approaching Ultimate seeing as the changes made to Sm4sh were almost all tasteful and well-implemented. There were good buffs (the ones to Mewtwo and Marthcina for instance, turning weaker chars into threats with minor tweaks) and good nerfs (namely Diddy and Meta Knight) and few objectively bad decisions. Good thing NAMCO mostly handles the balance (unless that's an urban legend?) and there probably isn't one person with undue influence over the process. I agree with the sentiment from everyone else that no top tier in Ultimate needs real nerfs at the moment and that balance changes should purely be done to buff bad characters/as a side effect of bugfixes if at all right now. As we've belabored on previous pages, every top tier in Ultimate has some sort of clear-cut weakness that holds them back, and none of them are overly 'oppressive' upon the cast as a whole.

 

[J0eyboi]

We’ve been polite for years now. It’s high time we make some ****ing noise.

Define "we," because there are a lot of words I would use to describe the Smash community and its patch culture, but "polite" is definitely not one of them.

Why do we have a problem with Chrom's Up-B but not Ike's?

Chrom is an incredibly combo-oriented character who can carry you from midstage to offstage in one conversion. Ike is a not that. You're not really feasibly going to land Ike's up-B offstage unless you commit to dying or your opponent really ****s up, while Chrom can convert a safe Nair, Fair, or Uair at 0 into a stock trade so long as he has stage control.

By the by,

FYI for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, we are staying on the current patch of 1.2.1 per our Patch Clause ruling for reasons of logistical and competitive integrity regardless if a new patch comes out before Genesis 6.

- Genesis 6 team#G6

— GENESIS (@Genesis_Smash) January 24, 2019

G6 is using patch 1.2.

 

[LancerStaff]

While it doesn't explicitly confirm or deny anything, having notable competitive players credited for QA (aMSa, Ranai, 9B, Earth) does suggest they're at least looking in that direction.

I dunno, canning EVO Japan for some meme tournament with items and Smash Balls on speaks to me loud and clear.

We don’t know anything about these players involvement, and they seemingly can’t say a peep about the game. Nothing really stands out as a change they would of influenced versus Sakurai randomly noticing like in 4.