Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Rizen]

Diddy's Banana is still the best projectile I feel. Sorry not sorry.

Shadow Ball and Charge Shot are also really good now.

I consider bananas an item but I'm splitting hairs. They're very good.

I was looking up the frame data of projectiles and found SB and CS uncharged shot animations only last 31 frames. They've become quite spammable. Samus and Mewtwo players could get a lot of chip damage throwing them out.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I consider bananas an item but I'm splitting hairs. They're very good.

I was looking up the frame data of projectiles and found SB and CS uncharged shot animations only last 31 frames. They've become quite spammable. Samus and Mewtwo players could get a lot of chip damage throwing them out.

Mewtwo especially I feel cause Mewtwo runs faster than how fast the uncharged Shadow Balls travel. Combine that with a dash attack that has long range, an awesome jab that I literally see NOBODY discuss ever when it comes to Mewtwo, and a great F Tilt, and I really don't see why people complain about the genetic Pokemon.

Maybe I just enjoy learning my characters over again. Because it's the same with Diddy.

Different from last time =/= as bad or bottom tier.

Then again I won't be too vocal about this because I have personal advantages when people underrate Diddy and Mewtwo.

 

[J0eyboi]

an awesome jab that I literally see NOBODY discuss ever when it comes to Mewtwo

There is next to no reason to ever use jab as Mewtwo when Dtilt exists. It's just as fast, has much more range, combos, is just as safe, and low-profiles. Jab is basically redundant.

I really don't see why people complain about the genetic Pokemon.

As I've mentioned before, Mewtwo's problems aren't in neutral. He does fine in neutral. His problems come from being a massive body with no good way out of pressure (bad airdodge, bad double jump, slow buttons, mediocre OoS, bad ledge options) while also being tied for the 5th lightest character in the game, and his advantage state being nowhere near good enough to compensate for it. He can play neutral pretty well, but with a disadvantage as bad as his, I don't think a good neutral is enough.

 

[Nobie]

There is next to no reason to ever use jab as Mewtwo when Dtilt exists. It's just as fast, has much more range, combos, is just as safe, and low-profiles. Jab is basically redundant.



As I've mentioned before, Mewtwo's problems aren't in neutral. He does fine in neutral. His problems come from being a massive body with no good way out of pressure (bad airdodge, bad double jump, slow buttons, mediocre OoS, bad ledge options) while also being tied for the 5th lightest character in the game, and his advantage state being nowhere near good enough to compensate for it. He can play neutral pretty well, but with a disadvantage as bad as his, I don't think a good neutral is enough.

Jab is specifically useful BECAUSE d-tilt low profiles. D-tilt can be short hopped over, and jab is just as fast. It also still has a no-recoil effect that lets it beat out certain moves, and 15% for a jab combo isn't bad.

I think the thing about Mewtwo in disadvantage is that it's better to land all the way at the ledge and fight your way from the corner than it is to try and get stage control or throw a haymaker. Mewtwo has the tools to fight out of a bad situation once it lands, not so much the tools to challenge a nasty juggle head-on.

 

[J0eyboi]

Jab is specifically useful BECAUSE d-tilt low profiles. D-tilt can be short hopped over, and jab is just as fast. It also still has a no-recoil effect that lets it beat out certain moves, and 15% for a jab combo isn't bad.

Didn't know Jab tramples. That makes it significantly more useful outside of scramble situations, which is the only place I can really see Jab catching jumps being relevant.

I think the thing about Mewtwo in disadvantage is that it's better to land all the way at the ledge and fight your way from the corner than it is to try and get stage control or throw a haymaker. Mewtwo has the tools to fight out of a bad situation once it lands, not so much the tools to challenge a nasty juggle head-on.

Right, but then you still have to either land or go to ledge. Even with Mewtwo's great airspeed, landing near the ledge will still be a struggle against a lot of characters, and going to ledge means you then have to get off the ledge, which Mewtwo also isn't good at. Both options also put Mewtwo uncomfortably close to the blastzone, often meaning he's a clean hit or two away from death.

 

[Browny]

It never really ended up being anywhere near MK levels of dominance. This is especially noted considering that Bayo's results where mostly carried by a handful of dedicated players (Salem, Zack, Mistake, Lima), while Brawl MK pretty much became the standard usage among a lot of the top players. Her results ratio in comparison to other SSB4 top tiers was also much smaller previous installments top tiers (not sure about 64 though).

Edit: Bayo's playstyle, while effective and frustrating to deal with, is pretty one-dimensional. I heavily doubt that she has more to show post-SSB4 metagame that hasn't already been shown.

Don't forget the part where Bayo was soft-banned.

When you have a 100% unanimous consensus that character X is the best character in the game by far by all top players, those top players consistently tell everyone that they only 'play to win' and will pick whatever character gives them the best chance of winning, and the vast majority of those top players refuse to play character X because of the community backlash they are going to receive, the character is soft banned.

Because there has to exist a definition of a soft ban, and smash 4 bayo fits it the exact same way Akuma did. Whether she was 1.5x as good as the second best, 2x or 10x it doesn't matter. The sole reason she wasn't picked up as much as MK, was because of community pressure, not because of any desire to win.

 

[J0eyboi]

The sole reason she wasn't picked up as much as MK, was because of community pressure, not because of any desire to win.

That was not the sole reason. A lot of top players tried to play her but didn't like her playstyle, and the ones that did like her playstyle (Leo, Tweek, Abadango) picked her up. Some players might have refused to play her on moral grounds, but she was far from softbanned. To take a phrase from Thinkaman , you're assuming character elasticity is unrealistically high at the top level and that any deviation from theoretically optimal character selection is a result of external factors, rather than internal ones.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Don't forget the part where Bayo was soft-banned.

When you have a 100% unanimous consensus that character X is the best character in the game by far by all top players, those top players consistently tell everyone that they only 'play to win' and will pick whatever character gives them the best chance of winning, and the vast majority of those top players refuse to play character X because of the community backlash they are going to receive, the character is soft banned.

Because there has to exist a definition of a soft ban, and smash 4 bayo fits it the exact same way Akuma did. Whether she was 1.5x as good as the second best, 2x or 10x it doesn't matter. The sole reason she wasn't picked up as much as MK, was because of community pressure, not because of any desire to win.

Not really true. First of all, I have never heard of any ban or even soft-ban on Bayonetta since 1.1.6. Second, community pressure never really came into play. It never stopped a few of the top players of at least picking up her as a secondary/emergency pick. Community pressure only really existed on the players who already played her to begin with (aka, the top 4 solo Bayos). If you play to win, you oftentimes don't really care that much about community backlash about what characters you choose.

Being considered the "unanimous" best character in the game doesn't mean that the character is anywhere near MK levels of oppressive. Right now, a lot of players in the community (near unanimous) are considering Peach/Daisy as the best character(s) in Ultimate. Is she oppressing the metagame at any way? No. You are solid enough to hold the throne and obtain a trend higher than anyone else. You are, for the most part, consistent. (Edit: I realized that this Peach/Daisy example isn't the best one, feel free to laugh at the example ) It doesn't mean that a character is, lets say, Brawl Meta Knight, where a tourney is oftentimes going to have about or even more than 3 MKs at top 8 and he wins the vast majority of tourneys. It is that vs. SSB4 Bayo, who only achieved the "three in top 8 maneuver" 2 or 3 times only (and it is by the same four players every single time) and has only won 5 majors throughout the entire lifespan of the game as a solo main (and 4/5 of those major wins is courtesy of Salem).

Edit: I posted this as Joey posted his reply, so this is kind of repetitive. lol

 

[MG_3989]

Diddy's Banana is still the best projectile I feel. Sorry not sorry.

Shadow Ball and Charge Shot are also really good now.

It’s definitely up there. I think Ness’s PK Thunder (just because of it’s sheer amount of uses, damage racking potential, and PKT2 kills if we’re even gonna consider it a projectile), Wolf’s laser, Shadow Ball, Charge Shot, Luca’s PK Freeze, Snake’s Nikita and gernades, Ylink’s Fire Arrows, K Rools Crown, Link’s remote bombs, and the Palutena fire ball move all have arguments. There’s a lot of good projectiles in this game and I’m sure I’m forgetting some here

 

[Y2Kay]

Explosive flame is kinda whack to be honest. It has to be used almost exclusively as a tool to press advantage and can only really zone super slow characters.

nobody has mentioned water shuriken, and more alarmingly, Razor Leaf.

 

[MG_3989]

Explosive flame is kinda whack to be honest. It has to be used almost exclusively as a tool to press advantage and can only really zone super slow characters.

nobody has mentioned water shuriken, and more alarmingly, Razor Leaf.

I’ve seen some Palutena’s use it really effectively. I agree it’s not a zoning tool but it can really help her advantage like you said when she uses and mixes it up well and it can kill. I probably shouldn’t have listed it as up there with the best projectiles though. And those were two of the biggest one’s I forgot. Especially because I just died to a Water Shuriken the last match I played lol. Both of them are great. The Belmont’s projectiles when used in tandem correctly are definitely really good too

 

[Browny]

Some players might have refused to play her on moral grounds, but she was far from softbanned.

And there you have it, you defined a soft-ban. There is no 'official' ban status required for a character to be softbanned, or a number of people who do. All that matters is that a character is just so good, that top players who tell you that they only 'play to win' will actively sabotage their chances because its 'immoral'. When you only have like, 2 dozen players in the world capable of winning majors and a handful of them refuse to play her for moral reasons, that could very well be the difference between here winning what she did, and winning literally every single event.

Don't you ever wonder to yourself, how could brawl MK, the charcter everyone agrees was the most busted character in smash and literally ruined the competitive scene with how it was 'play MK, or lose to MK', be more socially acceptable to play than bayonetta?

Do you remember the chorus of boos at Apex and Genesis events whenever M2K/Ally/Otori etc picked MK? Of course not, because it never happened. MK was considered a more fair character than Bayonetta ever was.

If a character is so universally hated that the best players in the world are afraid to play her because of the hate they will receive, the character is by definition, soft banned. There is no other definition required, all that matters is that community pressure outweighed the will to win. The SBR can say all they want that Bayo was never banned, that doesn't change the fact that her usage was far below what a top tier normally should have because the backlash was fierce.

 

[Heracr055]

And there you have it, you defined a soft-ban. There is no 'official' ban status required for a character to be softbanned, or a number of people who do. All that matters is that a character is just so good, that top players who tell you that they only 'play to win' will actively sabotage their chances because its 'immoral'. When you only have like, 2 dozen players in the world capable of winning majors and a handful of them refuse to play her for moral reasons, that could very well be the difference between here winning what she did, and winning literally every single event.

Don't you ever wonder to yourself, how could brawl MK, the charcter everyone agrees was the most busted character in smash and literally ruined the competitive scene with how it was 'play MK, or lose to MK', be more socially acceptable to play than bayonetta?

Do you remember the chorus of boos at Apex and Genesis events whenever M2K/Ally/Otori etc picked MK? Of course not, because it never happened. MK was considered a more fair character than Bayonetta ever was.

If a character is so universally hated that the best players in the world are afraid to play her because of the hate they will receive, the character is by definition, soft banned. There is no other definition required, all that matters is that community pressure outweighed the will to win. The SBR can say all they want that Bayo was never banned, that doesn't change the fact that her usage was far below what a top tier normally should have because the backlash was fierce.

This is just wrong on so many levels.
Top players didn't not play Bayonetta out of principle. They played characters that they either preferred or felt gave them the best chance at winning. As such, it was never a soft ban against Bayonetta (I actually have NEVER heard this idea perpetuated during the entire span of Smash 4, even when Bayonetta starting winning majors).
And if you think that Bayonetta is a more broken character than Brawl Metia Knight then you have little to no understanding of what Brawl Meta Knight actually is.
Lastly, when you mention booing as proof that Brawl MK was more acceptable and fair than Bayonetta was, you do a great disservice to the pre-Smash 4 community. The competitive playerbase for Smash grew in 4 thanks to the accessibility to a competitive platform (For Glory). This brought with it a flood of players who felt compelled to make the next step and start attending offline competition (locals, regionals and majors). Thus, the new wave of players and spectators have not been "tempered by the fire" of adjusting to seemingly oppressive characters and plsystyles, and are more prone to whine, boo and call for bans. Again, this doesn't apply to all Smash 4 players who came into the scene durng this timeframe, but there are a lot of people who would rather hope for a real ban than to "get good."

 

[J0eyboi]

Don't you ever wonder to yourself, how could brawl MK, the charcter everyone agrees was the most busted character in smash and literally ruined the competitive scene with how it was 'play MK, or lose to MK', be more socially acceptable to play than bayonetta?

No, actually. It happened because unlike Bayo, Meta Knight was in the game at launch, which meant that a lot more players picked him up because they didn't already have established mains. Then, by the time Meta Knight was widely recognized as a problem, he had gotten too big to fail. The top players didn't want to stop playing him because then you get the WOMD problem of whoever does it first losing a lot of power, and the TOs didn't want to ban him because it would result in a lot less top player interaction.

At least, that's what I remember from the posts in v4 about it. Other people are definitely more qualified to talk about this than the guy who was like 8 when Brawl came out.

If a character is so universally hated that the best players in the world are afraid to play her because of the hate they will receive, the character is by definition, soft banned. There is no other definition required, all that matters is that community pressure outweighed the will to win. The SBR can say all they want that Bayo was never banned, that doesn't change the fact that her usage was far below what a top tier normally should have because the backlash was fierce.

Lets set aside the definition of a soft ban for a second because that's not really the point. I don't get the argument that community pressure outweighed the will to win when top players were by and large the conductors of the Bayo hate train. Not all of them were, obviously, but people like ZeRo and Anti were some of the first to decry Bayo. Like, maybe some people were pressured out of playing Bayo by the community backlash, but at the very top level, the only person who I could imagine having played Bayo if not for the backlash is Nairo. Everyone else either didn't match her playstyle, was a character loyalist anyway, or played Bayo. I don't think community backlash mattered as much as you think it did.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

.

And there you have it, you defined a soft-ban. There is no 'official' ban status required for a character to be softbanned, or a number of people who do. All that matters is that a character is just so good, that top players who tell you that they only 'play to win' will actively sabotage their chances because its 'immoral'. When you only have like, 2 dozen players in the world capable of winning majors and a handful of them refuse to play her for moral reasons, that could very well be the difference between here winning what she did, and winning literally every single event.

Don't you ever wonder to yourself, how could brawl MK, the charcter everyone agrees was the most busted character in smash and literally ruined the competitive scene with how it was 'play MK, or lose to MK', be more socially acceptable to play than bayonetta?

Do you remember the chorus of boos at Apex and Genesis events whenever M2K/Ally/Otori etc picked MK? Of course not, because it never happened. MK was considered a more fair character than Bayonetta ever was.

If a character is so universally hated that the best players in the world are afraid to play her because of the hate they will receive, the character is by definition, soft banned. There is no other definition required, all that matters is that community pressure outweighed the will to win. The SBR can say all they want that Bayo was never banned, that doesn't change the fact that her usage was far below what a top tier normally should have because the backlash was fierce.

Players will pass on a character if they don't want to fight against the crowd. The biggest changes between brawl and sm4sh is the amount of exposure the game gets. Brawl streams weren't that big nor were the tournaments. There was also no esports back the way there is now. So the scene and player mentality has fundamentally shifted. X or Y results isn't all that matters but building your brand. With that in mind that's not to say brawl was missing top players of other characters. Also patches people don't want to put too much time into something just for it to be nerfed.

This Ultimate out the gate is infinitely more times more healthy than brawl or sm4sh. Which is a good thing. Which I hope will lead to healthy patches and not just nerfs for top tiers.

Also I think it'd be pretty sweet if Ultimate was like all the characters in their best form. Brawl MK vs pre patch diddy would've been great.

 

[Browny]

I see melees top 100 or so players, where fox is the #1 character but not by a huge margin, and you legit have like 40% of top players using him. That makes sense, a top tier should.

While Brawl never had a top 100 list, look at results form big touraments at the end of the games like Apex 2014. 24/64, 37.5% of players mained MK. Again, expected for a top tier.

For the final PGR 50 in smash wii U we had 7.... 7 out of 50, 14% of top players mained bayonetta. This is NOT what a top tier spread should look like.

If people see the unaimous, unquestioned #1 character in the game only having a pathetic 14% useage rate among top players and go 'seems fine to me' then I've got nothing to say. But it is completely out of the ordinary by fighting game standards. The argument can be made that in a game with 58 characters, of course one particular characters usage will be low. Except this wasn't just any one normal character... it was the character miles above the rest of the cast.

Bayonettas top-level usage was far below any statistically significant level. There has to be a reason for it. It's also quite telling that of the top 10 PGR ranked players, 4 were bayonetta. So we have quite a typical top tier spread only among the highest possible level, but incredibly poor below that. Really makes you question if the only reason there were so many there, but not in the lower ranks, was because once a top player picked her up, their results absolutely skyrocketed. Hmm I wonder who that sounds like *cough*salem*cough*zack*cough*lima*cough*

 

[meleebrawler]

I see melees top 100 or so players, where fox is the #1 character but not by a huge margin, and you legit have like 40% of top players using him. That makes sense, a top tier should.

While Brawl never had a top 100 list, look at results form big touraments at the end of the games like Apex 2014. 24/64, 37.5% of players mained MK. Again, expected for a top tier.

For the final PGR 50 in smash wii U we had 7.... 7 out of 50, 14% of top players mained bayonetta. This is NOT what a top tier spread should look like.

If people see the unaimous, unquestioned #1 character in the game only having a pathetic 14% useage rate among top players and go 'seems fine to me' then I've got nothing to say. But it is completely out of the ordinary by fighting game standards. The argument can be made that in a game with 58 characters, of course one particular characters usage will be low. Except this wasn't just any one normal character... it was the character miles above the rest of the cast.

Bayonettas top-level usage was far below any statistically significant level. There has to be a reason for it. It's also quite telling that of the top 10 PGR ranked players, 4 were bayonetta. So we have quite a typical top tier spread only among the highest possible level, but incredibly poor below that. Really makes you question if the only reason there were so many there, but not in the lower ranks, was because once a top player picked her up, their results absolutely skyrocketed. Hmm I wonder who that sounds like *cough*salem*cough*zack*cough*lima*cough*

Because she was the last DLC character unveiled, not available for anyone who likely established their mains long before her. Why go to the trouble of practicing her when you're unlikely to ever catch up with those who used her day 1?

 

[The_Bookworm]

Bayonettas top-level usage was far below any statistically significant level. There has to be a reason for it. It's also quite telling that of the top 10 PGR ranked players, 4 were bayonetta.

Quick correction: the PGR top 100 has the top 4 solo Bayos: Salem, Zack, Lima, and Mistake; as top 25, not top 10. None of them got top 5.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Patch 2.0.0 is coming soon!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Get ready for balance updates!

 

[Nah]

when they say "patch notes will be released when the update goes live" do they mean that they're going to finally give us real patch notes, or by patch notes do they mean the usual "lol we made some changes we're not really going to specify" patch notes?

 

[BunbUn129]

Comparisons between Brawl MK and S4 Bayonetta go nowhere because it's an outgrowth of the idea of an "overcentralizing character," which in itself is not an objective term. At what point does a character's usage rate or results become classified as OP? That argument will never end, and likewise any other argument stemming from the idea. These are also two different characters from two games that on the surface are very similar but under the skin are very different.

That people were booing Bayonetta but not so much MK doesn't prove anything. S4 had patch culture, along with increased exposure, so there was much more of an incentive to go up in arms for any character deemed overpowered. Outcries got Diddy nerf-bombed and that set a precedent for the rise and fall of every top-tier after him. Unlike 4, Brawl also had a 2nd best character who was arguably even more degenerate, so there was definitely a feeling of MK being the lesser evil.

Also, great timing for a patch, just before Genesis. There are going to be so many placebos going around and I wonder if the tournament is going to run on pre-patch to be safe.

 

[IsmaR]

when they say "patch notes will be released when the update goes live" do they mean that they're going to finally give us real patch notes, or by patch notes do they mean the usual "lol we made some changes we're not really going to specify" patch notes?

It means we will most certainly be getting Nintendo's idea of good patch notes (various fixes to improve gameplay and all).

Regardless, the same group we've had doing the last patch breakdown will be diligently awaiting the next round of placebo mythbusting at the earliest convenience.

 

[Repli.Cant]

Mewtwo especially I feel cause Mewtwo runs faster than how fast the uncharged Shadow Balls travel. Combine that with a dash attack that has long range, an awesome jab that I literally see NOBODY discuss ever when it comes to Mewtwo, and a great F Tilt, and I really don't see why people complain about the genetic Pokemon.

Maybe I just enjoy learning my characters over again. Because it's the same with Diddy.

Different from last time =/= as bad or bottom tier.

Then again I won't be too vocal about this because I have personal advantages when people underrate Diddy and Mewtwo.

Imo, next to bad OoS options and disadvantage, Mewtwo's biggest kick in the nuts was his hurtbox change to his tail. This change feels terrible and makes him difficult to play for an extended amount of time. I absolutely loved and adored . He was probably the most fun character I've ever played in a fighting game. Ever. feels so close to that, but Lord this change kills the character for me, and I hope I'm not alone. I genuinely think it will hold the character back.

Mewtwo is not a character that should have a tail hurtbox. Not with that weight and his already tall frame.

 

[J0eyboi]

Patch 2.0.0 is coming soon!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Get ready for balance updates!

Wow, "very soon." They really don't want to tell us when Plant's going to drop, huh?

when they say "patch notes will be released when the update goes live" do they mean that they're going to finally give us real patch notes, or by patch notes do they mean the usual "lol we made some changes we're not really going to specify" patch notes?

Based on what happened for 1.2.0, I'm guessing they mean "we'll tell you who we changed, but we won't say what about them changed, so mains of those characters have a heart attack and we get 2 days of placebo and misreported damage changes (so, so many misreported damage changes like holy ****) before dataminers actually figure out what changed."

And I mean... I guess that's sort of better? It at least narrows it down from having to go through every character down to just a handful, which is nice.

 

[Rocketjay8]

It means we will most certainly be getting Nintendo's idea of good patch notes (various fixes to improve gameplay and all).

Regardless, the same group we've had doing the last patch breakdown will be diligently awaiting the next round of placebo mythbusting at the earliest convenience.

Nintendo's good idea of patch notes is giving detailed notes specifying the various changes yo characters and weapons. I'm still confused why this is the only game in their library with bad patch notes.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Patch 2.0.0 is coming soon!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Get ready for balance updates!

Whoa whoa whoa..I an actullay kinda against any major balance changes right now, and I say that even with certain chararacters i feel are a bit overtuned. I mean the game is not even 2 months old, maybe the meta should develop a bit more before any big drastic changes are made to characters

Maybe the patch will be to add Pirahna plant and maybe some bugfixes and such ebdn hopefully improvments to online. I would not mind just some minor changes to tone some of the more powerful stuff down a bit...but a major balance change this early?

 

[Browny]

Imo, next to bad OoS options and disadvantage, Mewtwo's biggest kick in the nuts was his hurtbox change to his tail. This change feels terrible and makes him difficult to play for an extended amount of time. I absolutely loved and adored . He was probably the most fun character I've ever played in a fighting game. Ever. feels so close to that, but Lord this change kills the character for me, and I hope I'm not alone. I genuinely think it will hold the character back.

Mewtwo is not a character that should have a tail hurtbox. Not with that weight and his already tall frame.

Do I need to make come big reference post or something so people can go back to it re; his tail?

In smash 4, the disjoint on Mewtwos tail was pixels larger than marths sword. It was certainly a big disjoint, but it didnt beat ikes sword. Roughly 45-50% of his tail was disjointed in smash 4. In Ultimate its certainly shrunk, now maybe its 30%

https://i.imgur.com/wtIY8nv.png

There's some mad placebo effect going on if people are acting like he never had a tail hurtbox, but now he does. Its just a bit worse, thats it. Coz I mean... placebo ran rampant in smash 4 where it seemed the majority of the community, including many pros, had no idea whatsoever that his tail was disjointed in smash 4. They never bothered to test it once. Its certainly feasible that the exact same placebo effect is going on now, people thinking his disjoint is terrible when if they looked, they'd see its still equivalent to TL/YLs sword.

 

[Nate1080]

Can we not turn “placebo” into a buzzword? There’s enough buzzwords in the Smash community already; I literally just read 5 posts in this page with that word and I’m already sick of it lol.

Anyways, I suspect this patch to really just add Plant, fix some bugs/glitches, and maybe minor nerfs/buffs (hopefully minor, or even none, the game is only a month an a half or so old. Way too soon for buff/nerfs that aren’t game breaking (there aren’t any of those)). Hopefully the 2.0 part means actual notes this time.

 

[bc1910]

Patch 2.0.0 is coming soon!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Get ready for balance updates!

I honestly hope there isn’t a single nerf.

Wouldn’t be opposed to some buffs for the characters who are clearly at the bottom of the pile like Kirby. Nothing major yet though.

If there ARE nerfs I think roller’s bury time is the most likely casualty.

 

[Questionmark222]

Patch 2.0.0 is coming soon!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Get ready for balance updates!

…are they seriously still erasing replays from past versions of the game...

 

[Nate1080]

…are they seriously still erasing replays from past versions of the game...

Makes sense since replays aren’t even videos (unless you convert them). It’s just replaying button commands iirc. So deleting them makes sense as there’s a chance a replay would just flat out break due to changes to damage/trajectory/etc.

 

[BunbUn129]

Whoops sorry

 

[LancerStaff]

Who’s ready for waves of nerfs to characters that didn’t need nerfs?

Oh boy can’t wait for K. Rool to only burry people for 2 frames max lol

 

[Game7a1]

Patch 2.0.0 is coming soon!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Get ready for balance updates!

I honestly hope most changes are bug fixes rather than balance changes.

 

[Frihetsanka]

It's clearly too early to be nerfing (if we're nerfing based on early impressions, expect King K. Rool, Meta Knight, Chrom, and Inkling nerfs), the top players should be given more time to develop counter-play. Buffing some characters in small ways would be better but that's also a bit risky since it's possible some of them have hidden potential that hasn't been unlocked yet. Anyway, I guess we'll see once the patch drops.

 

[Repli.Cant]

Do I need to make come big reference post or something so people can go back to it re; his tail?

In smash 4, the disjoint on Mewtwos tail was pixels larger than marths sword. It was certainly a big disjoint, but it didnt beat ikes sword. Roughly 45-50% of his tail was disjointed in smash 4. In Ultimate its certainly shrunk, now maybe its 30%

https://i.imgur.com/wtIY8nv.png

There's some mad placebo effect going on if people are acting like he never had a tail hurtbox, but now he does. Its just a bit worse, thats it. Coz I mean... placebo ran rampant in smash 4 where it seemed the majority of the community, including many pros, had no idea whatsoever that his tail was disjointed in smash 4. They never bothered to test it once. Its certainly feasible that the exact same placebo effect is going on now, people thinking his disjoint is terrible when if they looked, they'd see its still equivalent to TL/YLs sword.

Give me a moment to re-explain things... I really did muck up what I was trying to say (proofread your stuff, folks)

I didn't mean to say that he didn't have a tail hurtbox in S4, he most certainly did. What I'm saying it that compared to S4's tail, Ultimate's tail feels worse. I find myself getting hit by a lot more things because of it. Although that "feeling" is what placebo is, no? Correct me further, I'd hate to look like even more of an idiot, haha. But I guess I just need to get used to it.

 

[BunbUn129]

If any changes are made, whether buffs or nerfs (I hope neither), then at the very least let's pray they've extensively play-tested them.

If they haven't learned anything from S4 then watch as Ike's nair and Mach Tornado among other stuff are sacrificed before the altar of Lord Balance the Fair.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Re: patch notes, don't forget that the web page that lists them also has a feedback button at the bottom. Just, you know, be polite about it.

 

[Omnos]

I just hope there are improvements for online in this patch. Even just small things to help it improve. There shouldn't be much in terms of character balance this early, hopefully. They found at least wait until after Gen 6 to start worrying about needs nerfs or buffs.

 

[LancerStaff]

Re: patch notes, don't forget that the web page that lists them also has a feedback button at the bottom. Just, you know, be polite about it.

We’ve been polite for years now. It’s high time we make some ****ing noise.