Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Supermodel From Paris]

Explain where. Or better yet, name a trait that Joker is better than at least say... 20 other characters at. KO'ing, recovering, edgeguarding, combos, camping, walling, approaching or any others you can think of.

He might not be bad right off the top, but its hard to see how he is going to hang with the characters who can take him for a 0-50% ride where he can't do that in return, outlive them or KO earlier.

I think his edgeguarding is pretty good, but he does remind me a lot of Pit. A lot of decent moves that don't really come together very well. His camping is also good, and the gun dodges and wavelands give him ridiculous mobility on triplat stages.

Does this character have ANY true combos? I tried to find some last night before bed and couldn't really come up with anything. I think his Persona form might keep him in mid tier.

 

[Nate1080]

Just started playing with Joker after downloading him late last night.

Found a combo, idk if it’s true or not (in base from) :
Up throw -> utilt (do it too early, the opponent lands behind you) -> up B (you have to wait a bit for it to connect) -> F-Smash
Does around 48 to 50 percent from 0 percent.

You can also do dtilt or another utilt instead of f-smash

 

[NotLiquid]

Does this character have ANY true combos? I tried to find some last night before bed and couldn't really come up with anything. I think his Persona form might keep him in mid tier.

Up air is what people are exploring the most right now.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

He also has a stupidly potent fast fall. All of his major combos will likely be based on his aerial attacks due to how little lag there is on them.

 

[ARISTOS]

I'm not going to make a list of characters here, but Joker's edgeguarding, camping and recovering are most certainly not bottom 20 by said approximation. Joker can actually camp relatively easy given that he's got good mobility, a low-profile dash, Gun not being considered a projectile, and the dodges off of gun not being affected by the dodge lag multiplier. If anything I suspect in short term a lot of his game plan is going to revolve around camping given his fast attacks, mobility and sub-sword range. His edgeguarding is solid given that two of his moves kill off-stage, one of them basically being a Falcon/Ganondorf Nair, and having a third move that's actually able to gimp low recoveries pretty violently. Combo game is worth questioning but you're not going to find quick results when the character has barely been available for 10 hours yet. KO potential is definitely not low-tier given he has multiple ways to hit confirm into aerials, dragdowns and jab locks.

Considering how easy he actually builds Arsene when he's getting worked, it's not actually all that bad. Right now he gets rewarded for failing to camp, and zoners are going to suck against him given that projectiles = free meter. He's a high skill floor character, which might not be a good thing given that most Smash players right now are going to be looking for "easy wins", but my initial impression of him is that they put out a pretty good character who's only "underwhelming" in the sense that he doesn't meet up the same expected standard of "busted DLC", or the assumption that any character that isn't top tier material has to worthless. Most of his actual problems in the game are likely going to mean he will end up struggling against zonebreaker characters. But the poster that claims he leans Piranha Plant is a borderline laughable statement that yes, I have to suspect is a take that will age pretty badly.

Joker builds Arsene pretty quickly in general, the timing on the counter is very lenient (Mr. E waits it out here:https://youtu.be/_AcO0dtIhQI?t=1070 and it just eats the hit).

Joker without Arsene doesn't seem super strong but that isn't too worrisome given you get him very quickly

Grappling Hook also looks to have a ton of shenanigans esp against big bodies (GET OVER HERE) but I haven't played the character so no idea on it's endlag.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Up air is what people are exploring the most right now.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

He also has a stupidly potent fast fall. All of his major combos will likely be based on his aerial attacks due to how little lag there is on them.

Can you not jump out of that?

 

[ZephyrZ]

I think his edgeguarding is pretty good, but he does remind me a lot of Pit. A lot of decent moves that don't really come together very well. His camping is also good, and the gun dodges and wavelands give him ridiculous mobility on triplat stages.

Does this character have ANY true combos? I tried to find some last night before bed and couldn't really come up with anything. I think his Persona form might keep him in mid tier.

I don't have a partner to help me lab this stuff out and I hear the combo counter in training mode is unreliable, so take this with a grain of salt, but D-throw -> Fair, Nair -> F-tilt, Nair -> Dash Attack, and D-tilt -> Up Air all seem pretty reliable at their proper percents. I also found Bair -> F-tilt / Dash Attack seems to work at really low percents.

 

[SneakOak]

I will certainly drop Megaman after this, how is it possible that a character who struggles with close quarters combat got his only option against them nerfed? For sure Link is much better that him now

 

[NotLiquid]

Can you not jump out of that?

Possibly (most likely) with some form of DI but that's a standard dragdown combo as far as I see.

 

[DelugeFGC]

HOW is his edge guarding good, though? He has a terrible, extremely linear recovery with his Persona out and his range is completely pitiful. None of his zoning tools are good enough to sit and camp behind unless it's a MU where the other character REALLY struggles with that sort of thing.

That's the problem, really. Joker can do a LOT of stuff.. and he's good at absolutely NONE of it. Having the fake waveland with the guns is literally the definition of flashy and useless tech that can be translated into VERY little in reality. It's actually REALLY easy to punish his mobility options, especially if you play a character actually competent at any of the things Joker tries to aim for. All the mobility on the planet does nothing when the options you can go for out of that mobility suck.

The character's best move is probably his dash attack.. and that's just.. not a good place to be. FAir seems good for poking / retreating spacing, but it doesn't have fantastic range nor the kill power to edge guard with if your gauge isn't filled with the Persona out. That's really the problem on most of his kit. Then when it DOES finally come out, all of his combo game goes right out the window because of the added knockback. It's a lose-lose situation. UAir is like a worse version of Samus'. BAir is confusing and really meh. NAir has way too much lag. DAir and FAir are the only two aerials he has without serious issues right off the bat I could see.

He has piss kill power / knockback without the Persona, and literally ZERO true combo game / bread and butter game with it. I get wanting to develop the character, but pretending he isn't SEVERELY limited and underwhelming is.. lunacy, imo. I'm out boys, not much to discuss, he's piss and my opinion ain't changing no matter how many flashy lab combo videos I see. People do the same with IC's, and you can still find where they are on my tier list.

I could never imagine starting a set with him as a pick in tournament, he's an active handicap to his player.

 

[Glerma]

This post is going to age very very poorly lol

I hope/think you are right, I am far from a smash god, but from what I was watching people seemed to be doing fine with confirming kills. Not amazing by any means, but definitely not sheik part 2. From what I saw bair, uair, and dair all killed at decent percent. And his side smash comes out fast enough that you would not need a crazy read to hit it. I could not download him until this morning due to servers and only got to mess around with him in training mode a bit, but he definitely feels good. Not top tier, but not another joke. (hehe puns)

Grappling Hook also looks to have a ton of shenanigans esp against big bodies (GET OVER HERE) but I haven't played the character so no idea on it's endlag.

I liked your message entirely for the Get Over Here lol

 

[KakuCP9]

Does anyone know if his tether works like the Belmont's whip aerials and prioritizes the ledge over the opponent or will the attack drag opponent down if they're in the way? Also is his Arsene up-b capable of recovering level with the stage cause if not, it looks like a free 2-frame punish ( says hello).

 

[Sean²]

Why are people thinking Joker is bad already? He feels like a better Sheik to me. Drag down uair seems like it could unlock a lot of possibilities. I was playing around with comboing utilt into uair earlier at mid percents. Lots of combo potential, has projectiles, and has good ground/air mobility. He has an Olimar-ish combo breaker with down B armor. Side B is basically a Pikmin you can't get off you. Gun stuff is cool (dunno how applicable the aerial gun stuff is beyond edgeguarding linear recoveries though).

I like the fact that his recovery is technically weaker when the persona comes out. He can technically go deeper for edgeguards when powered up but it also opens up the ability to edgeguard him a bit better. It makes it a good comeback mechanic, not a ridiculous one. People like to complain about Lucario being able to get bodied for an entire game and land a few lucky hits to kill someone at 20%. Joker can get bodied for an entire game, and technically get stronger when he does, but loses his best recovery tool at the same time.

Seriously, that tether goes for miles. I was recovering from getting stuck underneath Smashville - like midstage underneath, AKA instant death zone for a majority of the cast - and it still tethered. I was basically in bubble when it attached. Ivysaur players would be jealous of this thing if theirs didn't kill. I'm feeling like Joker is going to be really good as time goes on.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

One thing people are overlooking when talking about Joker's recovery with Arsene: It has some very generous intangibility frames. I think it's f1-f25? So yeah, linear, but the first third or so, including the startup, simply cannot be intercepted at all.

Also this has nothing to do with his competitive value but the move works by Arsene merging into Joker's body and letting him use the wings which is really kind of badass.

 

[Rizen]

Right now he gets rewarded for failing to camp, and zoners are going to suck against him given that projectiles = free meter.

This equation, like saying "projectiles mean free Incineroar revenge", doesn't actually work out in the counter character's favor. Zoning characters aren't going to throw out projectiles from a distance that's far enough to easily react to. This is why things like Samus' charged shots are used close or vs someone in disadvantage. As such using a counter type move vs projectiles ends up being a read and a commitment, almost as much as using it vs CQC moves. If you time it right you get extra meter but if you don't you get punished. The issue is that counters themselves require the opponent to attack to go into effect and the opponent can grab or simply not attack and react to the counter. There's much less room for error on the end that's trying to use the counter because counters lose to more than they beat.

 

[NotLiquid]

HOW is his edge guarding good, though? He has a terrible, extremely linear recovery with his Persona out and his range is completely pitiful. None of his zoning tools are good enough to sit and camp behind unless it's a MU where the other character REALLY struggles with that sort of thing.

Literally what does him having a "linear recovery" have to do with his edgeguarding? We're talking about his ability to go off-stage and keep people off-stage, to which he has some of the safest aerials out there. FAir and DAir are kill moves off the stage, and this is without Arsene.

He has piss kill power / knockback without the Persona, and literally ZERO true combo game / bread and butter game with it.

Now this is objectively false. First hit FAir combos still work when Arsene is active and become kill confirms due to the boosts to UAir/FAir. Back air combos at low percents into moves like dash attack, and NAir sets up tech chase/jab lock situations. How's about we dial down on the hyperbole in here, fellas?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't want to comment again on how strong I think Joker is, because I'm not totally sure yet, but there are a lot of people saying that Joker's recovery is worse in Arsene form and that his tether recovery is really good because of the absurd distance it has, etc.

His tether recovery is very, very easy to intercept on the way in. Maybe there are some tricky options Joker players can use to make it harder to get to him, but putting any hitbox out there as you wind in the tether means Joker probably dies. I've had some luck going underneath the stage sometimes and doing a b-reverse up-b which pulls you in very close to the edge, but even then, putting any neutral air between the ledge and Joker pretty much guarantees he dies unless he has not used his second jump.

Literally what does him having a "linear recovery" have to do with his edgeguarding? We're talking about his ability to go off-stage and keep people off-stage, to which he has some of the safest aerials out there. FAir and DAir are kill moves off the stage, and this is without Arsene.

Plus his recovery, for all of its' weaknesses, can cover a lot of distance, so he can go fairly deep for hits if he wants.

 

[Sean²]

Luckily he has some options to cover the ledge when recovering. Not quite the same as like DHD using his can as an umbrella to his recovery, but still decent.

 

[ARISTOS]

Browny Nobie Can you confirm if this stuff is new or just placebo from patches:

Mewtwo's tail is in z-axis baby! And uh...so is part of his neck too. #SmashUltimate#Mewtwo pic.twitter.com/heEILcVuAc

— Windindi (@Windindi1) April 18, 2019

 

[Omnos]

One thing people are overlooking when talking about Joker's recovery with Arsene: It has some very generous intangibility frames. I think it's f1-f25? So yeah, linear, but the first third or so, including the startup, simply cannot be intercepted at all.

Also this has nothing to do with his competitive value but the move works by Arsene merging into Joker's body and letting him use the wings which is really kind of badass.

His Arsene recovery is very good imo. It's like pits except not as many angles. But it has way better invincibility frames (2-26) and it's a bit faster.

 

[KakuCP9]

Browny Nobie Can you confirm if this stuff is new or just placebo from patches:

Mewtwo's tail is in z-axis baby! And uh...so is part of his neck too. #SmashUltimate#Mewtwo pic.twitter.com/heEILcVuAc

— Windindi (@Windindi1) April 18, 2019

I'm not either, but a better question should be whether or not it pokes out at certain frames when jumping since those are the causes of him getting memed on even though his tail was largely already in the z-axis.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Eh, I think the size of Mewtwo's hurtbox is an issue but is overblown. His big problem to me is his follow-up game. Dtilt tipper sucks really bad, down throw is really bad, etc.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I'm not either, but a better question should be whether or not it pokes out at certain frames when jumping since those are the causes of him getting memed on even though his tail was largely already in the z-axis.

It doesn't. The vast majority of Mewtwo's animations (only a select few doesn't) has it's tail on the z-axis. A lot of people easily forget about that, which results in the tail hurtbox increase easily being an overblown nerf by a lot of people.

 

[ARISTOS]

I'm not either, but a better question should be whether or not it pokes out at certain frames when jumping since those are the causes of him getting memed on even though his tail was largely already in the z-axis.

It doesn't. The vast majority of Mewtwo's animations (only a select few doesn't) has it's tail on the z-axis. A lot of people easily forget about that, which results in the tail hurtbox increase easily being an overblown nerf by a lot of people.

Yeah I knew previously that M2's hurtbox already mostly stayed in the Z-axis outside of certain actions, what I was wondering was whether these are new changes vs people figuring them out once the patch hit and caused them to explore more

EDIT: Guess we have our answer lol: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/bemyqi/re_mewtwos_tail_hurtbox_i_took_all_those/

 

[Phoenix_is_OK]

Well it would appear that Mewtwo is going to be receiving some more love in the comp scene:

https://twitter.com/RonnieM2_/status/1118894930133311488

It begins.

 

[Glerma]

Well it would appear that Mewtwo is going to be receiving some more love in the comp scene:

https://twitter.com/RonnieM2_/status/1118894930133311488

It begins.

I want to post a gif of like Eminem's music video at the part of "Guess whose back, back again" But I am at work and do not have time to so I will just say this so yall start humming it in your head :D

 

[Foie]

Does anyone have impressions of viability after the patch? Haven't had the chance to play yet.

Spoiler: Mewtwo 3.0.0 Changes

• Neutral Special
- Extended launch distance.
- Reduced the power against shields.

• Side Tilt Attack — Increased attack power and maintained launch distance.
• Up Air Attack — Increased attack power and maintained launch distance.

• Up Tilt Attack
- Increased attack power and maintained launch distance.
- Adjusted launch angle when hit by the tip of the tail.

• Edge Attack — Increased attack range.
• Side Smash Attack — Increased attack range.
• Neutral Attack 1 — Increased attack speed.
• Basic Movement — Increased the fighter’s weight. (77 to 79)

Looks like he got some significant buffs, including speeding up his jab which is awesome. Uair and utilt have "Increased attack power and maintained launch distance." Does that mean improved combo game, or just more damage?

Seems like they addressed some of his biggest needs.

Also, it appears they shifted his tail to the z-axis when he's mid-air, which is pretty great too.

pic.twitter.com/OytnogJsAz

— Piero (@firstbones) April 18, 2019

 

[Phoenix_is_OK]

Does anyone have impressions of viability after the patch? Haven't had the chance to play yet.

Spoiler: Mewtwo 3.0.0 Changes

• Neutral Special
- Extended launch distance.
- Reduced the power against shields.

• Side Tilt Attack — Increased attack power and maintained launch distance.
• Up Air Attack — Increased attack power and maintained launch distance.

• Up Tilt Attack
- Increased attack power and maintained launch distance.
- Adjusted launch angle when hit by the tip of the tail.

• Edge Attack — Increased attack range.
• Side Smash Attack — Increased attack range.
• Neutral Attack 1 — Increased attack speed.
• Basic Movement — Increased the fighter’s weight. (77 to 79)

Looks like he got some significant buffs, including speeding up his jab which is awesome. Uair and utilt have "Increased attack power and maintained launch distance." Does that translate to an improved combo game? Also, buffed charge shot??

It appears they addressed some of his biggest needs.

Also, it appears they shifted his tail to the z-axis when he's mid-air, which is pretty great too.

pic.twitter.com/OytnogJsAz

— Piero (@firstbones) April 18, 2019

I mean, he still has a rough disadvantage, but he is overall a stronger character, doesn't die as soon, with a smaller hurtbox. I'd say it's enough to bump him up out of whatever tier he currently was in.

I, however, do not play the character, so my opinion means little here, but I'd say he's high mid, definitely viable.

Edit: stuff in bold may not be true but I think he looks pretty hot rn

 

[Fastblade5035]

Im extremely interested in seeing what Mewtwo players will do now.

Corrin players too, for that matter.

 

[Gleam]

I agree that Joker feels very underwhelming and having tested him a bit more, what I see are.

1.) A character with very little killing power and honestly, I'm not sure how much his Persona even helps. I mean it helps, but it seems less of a gimmick like Cloud's Limit which greatly increases his already decent stats and more like increasing some sub par stats to something a bit more average or so. Either way it still seems that I have to get opponents up to 150%+ before getting them into kill range.

2.) There's not much on combos that we currently know of. Don't get me wrong, Joker does have some combos though I haven't had much time to test them out with DI. But overall he seems very lacking and for a character like this, that's not good. Character's who lack such killing power usually make it up by having high damage, combo moves to string together or a decent edgeguarding kit.

3.) Speaking of edgeguarding, yeah I'm not really sure what he'd excel at here.

4.) Basically without Persona, Joker is all but the title of his name, a joke. Now I might be being kind of harsh on that, again the character was literally just released so who knows what we'll find. But it seems the only way I can possibly stay in a fight is to effectively get my a** kicked until Joker's in kill range and then hope that Persona gives me enough of an edge to win.

And that's kind of what it feels like right now. I feel like a character who is a Glass Cannon, but they forgot the Cannon part so it's mostly just glass. It seems they wanted to make a character who could rack up a good deal of damage but be effectively weak without Persona and strong with it, utilizing a high risk, high reward. Frankly they got the risk down but I'm not too sure how worth the reward is.

 

[Sean²]

Not even 24 hours and someone is whipping him out in a GFs.

You can see a bit of his edgeguarding potential here.

 

[Phoenix_is_OK]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uJrJKgIXQapPyWQ2Qhr8zm7GcN_snhziGBiQdBAdmjk/edit?usp=sharing

I updated this document. It compares everyones startup for moves, and I added the changes to Mewtwo and Diddy, along with adding Joker and Ken.

 

[HotelSoapy!]

also got some good Qol stuff.

 

[NotLiquid]

Not even 24 hours and someone is whipping him out in a GFs.

You can see a bit of his edgeguarding potential here.

Not bad of a display given he literally just came out when this was held.

Kept saying it on the last page but FSmash out of dragdowns and jablocks are gonna be key. That thing KO'd Lucina at 104% across Battlefield without Arsene. Gun movement intangibility makes Joker's recovery fairly easy to mixup as well, and being able to double BAir out of a full hop is most likely going to see a lot of usage given it can actually kill at critical percentages. That move and FAir seem like his best OoS options but the latter ain't gonna work unless it's a tall character while BAir requires you to face your back against the opponent. Overall he's got the Greninja problem of not having great OoS options. If I'd have to speculate on any problematic matchups, he's probably going to do very poorly against Peach/Daisy.

Need more actual deconstruction of moves rather than unhelpful hot takes this early when it comes to a new character. Which speaking of, Virum's made a spreadsheet of his moves and their frames.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RtTcOSOOgYjEMKn9gm4i2ntbRMMxB3sv72-cSQ95Zjc/edit#gid=0

 

[Browny]

Browny Nobie Can you confirm if this stuff is new or just placebo from patches:

Mewtwo's tail is in z-axis baby! And uh...so is part of his neck too. #SmashUltimate#Mewtwo pic.twitter.com/heEILcVuAc

— Windindi (@Windindi1) April 18, 2019

Its placebo, its always been this way.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

So I did some testing with the Joker gun sliding stuff, and it does look like if you instantly short hop and hit B at almost the same time and hold a direction, he will slide when he lands. This is pretty easy to do, and it also means that you can do it with a b-reverse. He can do some pretty tricky movement shenanigans by doing jump forward, wavebounce neutral B, hold in either direction to slide towards or away. On stages with platforms and especially triplat stages, this gets even nuttier because he can ledge cancel this wavebounce animation, and on higher platforms, he can slide off, neutral B just before landing, and slide again. The catch here is that the slides aren't interruptible until later in the animation, so it's not exactly commitment free, but it's still pretty good considering you can use it to retreat as well.

He can also do some really dumb stuff with tether cancels a'la Brawl ZSS, where you tether the ledge, hold down to cancel it and then jump and either attack or cancel it again. This has applications in edgeguarding but also for recovery. I think he's honestly really vulnerable during his recovery so this sort of stuff will help. You can up-b, cancel, gun feint, jump again, and up-b at any time during any of this. Hopefully he'll be able to take advantage of commitments during this time to gain some recovery space.

To be honest, I think his movement is the one strength I've found for him that is convincing. I also think Smash players tend to undervalue movement as a neutral tool and think of characters that rely on it a lot as being gimmicks unless they have some other insane strength (kill power, combo potential, etc).

Joker is exceptionally tricky and technical. I think that could go places, but I'm still waiting to see.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Arsene means Joker cannot be lower than mid tier.

Chill people.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

After playing around with Joker for a good bit, I feel that he honestly is pretty damn solid in general. While he has his clear flaws, I see a lot of potential. When I look at Joker, I see two characters I would compare him to: Sheik and Greninja.

In terms of movement, Joker is pretty fast and has a very low run. This helps as he is a tall and growing boy. I could see dashing as being super important to his gameplay as a result. The gun sliding also is pretty damn solid as well, and makes triplats and any stage with decent platforms very goood for Joker. I can see Joker's striking FD often due to this, so I can see Kalos or PS being the main counterpicks against him. Compared to Plant, Joker is much more reliant on stage choice in a good way. If this wavebounce ability is used to its full extent, taking Joker to a triplat is askin for a bruising.

To me the real killer tool in Joker's kit is his up air. Yeah yeah everyone talks about how his up air is good. But it helps him out so so much. It has a good hitbox, its fast, it deals decent damage, its easy to get into, and drag downs. Oh my lord drag downs. Drag down F Smash will be the key tool for Joker to try and kill aside from fishing for back airs or edgeguarding.

Speaking of which, edgeguarding. His down air has a great semi spike angle. You might use this for trying to go for a grab combo of some sort, but that semi spike will be pretty solid at edgeguarding too. Granted you have to deal with Joker's mediocre recovery to edgeguard sometimes but its a good risk. Also, lets not forget the value of the gun down, which will be solid for just messing with recoveries.

One thing I feel is getting overlooked is Rebel's Guard. Now generally Counters are kind of bad in Smash. For real, unless it is Witch Time, counters do not do much outside of just helping gimp Chrom. However, I feel confident in saying that Rebel's Guard use can just turn Joker into a far better character. Wise use of Rebel's Guard can make it so you can get Arsene out twice rather than once a stock. This is crazy good for Joker as it essentially multiplies his damage output so much it is ridiculous. Now I know counters in general are unreliable, but I would not hesistate to say overall this is probably the second best counter in the game after maybe Witch Time

Joker has his problems, such as mediocre range, poor recovery, and other things, but I see so much potential with this character. I expect him once figured out to be High Tier at least, and I can say I am putting a lot of effort into maining him alongside Ridley.

In terms of the patch, Mewtwo and Corrin look better, especially with Mewtwo no longer getting tail sniped as much. Mega Man is not happy with the huge nerf to projectiles across the board. I expect some experimentation with these two, though I do not think either will instantly become a tournament threat.

 

[Foie]

Does anyone have impressions of viability after the patch? Haven't had the chance to play yet.

Spoiler: Mewtwo 3.0.0 Changes

• Neutral Special
- Extended launch distance.
- Reduced the power against shields.

• Side Tilt Attack — Increased attack power and maintained launch distance.
• Up Air Attack — Increased attack power and maintained launch distance.

• Up Tilt Attack
- Increased attack power and maintained launch distance.
- Adjusted launch angle when hit by the tip of the tail.

• Edge Attack — Increased attack range.
• Side Smash Attack — Increased attack range.
• Neutral Attack 1 — Increased attack speed.
• Basic Movement — Increased the fighter’s weight. (77 to 79)

Looks like he got some significant buffs, including speeding up his jab which is awesome. Uair and utilt have "Increased attack power and maintained launch distance." Does that mean improved combo game, or just more damage?

Seems like they addressed some of his biggest needs.

Also, it appears they shifted his tail to the z-axis when he's mid-air, which is pretty great too.

pic.twitter.com/OytnogJsAz

— Piero (@firstbones) April 18, 2019

Update here: the Z-axis tail things apparently haven't changed at all in this patch, it has been that way in previous versions. Any perceived differences from before is unfortunately placebo.

 

[G. Stache]

Daily reminder to just make sure we don’t overreact to a BRAND NEW character . For all the talk of how “meh” Joker feels, just remember that when Cloud first was introduced into smash 4, everyone (or at least a good majority) of people came here and spoke about how “meh” Cloud was as well. Fast forward to now and Cloud had to be nerfed a good amount (namely his bonkers up air) and is still known as a top 3 character in smash 4. I think Joker is in a similar boat in the sense that it’s way too early to tell how viable he actually is when we haven’t had the chance to actually explore the character for more than a few hours. Nor have we seen much rep from him in tournament. Anyone who talks about him being underwhelming and bad probably should wait until we see what players can do with him. Arsene when activated is legit nuts, Jokers recovery covers a lot of distance and could be a LOT worse, he seems to have pretty good movement stats and frame data (and unless this is just placebo, Arsene activated further improves Joker’s good movement), and his two projectiles have some interesting qualities to them. Take your time with this character before making a rash judgement about how underwhelming he is. Joker seems pretty unique, so it makes sense that you might have to play Joker in a unique way to play him optimally.

On a side note, those mewtwo buffs seem pretty wild and if I read correctly that shadow ball has even MORE knock back now then I’m officially afraid of that character

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Words and phrases Supermodel From Paris wants to retire in 2020 due to permanent semantic satiation:

- Tactic(s)
- Placebo
- Glass Cannon
- Viable

Thanks. :^)