COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[kupo15]

If you decrease DI's influence you will have to lower hitstun for sure (lower than 10%). Otherwise you'll make chars like Sheik GOD tier. With 1.3down & 10%hitstun, she has follow-ups for almost all her tilts regardless of the other player's DI at low-mid percentages. I managed to do some crazy combos with her against "good" oponents with only 3 days of learning, which is stupid enough. I don't want to make them easier than they already are.

Thats the plan. Decrease DI, lower hitstun and sheik is just stupid with her tilts anyway. She's always had that problem which I think she justifies a character specific nerf

 

[Deleted member]

I'm arguing to make the DI and combos more like melee

and this is where I rtopped reading. this is exactly what makes people think we are just remaking melee.
just because melee had a good system doesn't mean we have to recreate it when the current system is fine or can be tweaked in another direction.

 

[kupo15]

and this is where I rtopped reading. this is exactly what makes people think we are just remaking melee.
just because melee had a good system doesn't mean we have to recreate it when the current system is fine or can be tweaked in another direction.

We are not recreating it. We are tweaking it to balance the DI with the air speed just like it was done with the past two games.

64's DI to air speed was balanced
Melees DI to air speed was balanced
Brawls DI to air speed is imbalanced

Fix ground momentum to air speed or fix DI

Stop strawmaning me!!!

EDIT: you know, this debate is sounding similar to the hitlag debate....hmm

 

[Osi]

@Osi

The question on my previous post was supposed to be directed at you. I was wondering if YOU (Not Magus) did all your testing with 11/22/5 shieldstun.
If so, thoughts? If not, wut?

I saw colored text and immediately thought Magus... even though his is purple... my bad...

I'm using the SS from mookie's list

New Shield Stun 2.5/5) (12 Lines)
* C28753EC 00000007
* 40200000 4800000D
* 40400000 40A00000
* 839F007C A39C0006
* 2C1C001A 41820014
* 7F8802A6 C03C0000
* C05C0004 FC2117FA
* FC00081E 00000000
* C277F78C 00000003
* 2C1C001D 41820008
* B39E0006 2C1CFFFF
* 60000000 00000000

Shield Stun 3 (11 Lines)
C28753EC 00000006
48000009 40400000
FC20F890 839F007C
A39C0006 2C1C001A
41820010 7F8802A6
C03C0000 FC2107F2
FC00081E 00000000
C277F78C 00000002
2C1C001D 41820008
B39E0006 2C1CFFFF
60000000 00000000


Also for DI affecting it the same way dash speed does I tend to disagree a bit. Some moves have hit back that pushes the character too far away to combo even if DI affect is lower. I would much rather change dash speed and lower hitstun. I'm more in favor of up tilt/dash attack/up air juggles being harder to link and opening up more possibilities with horizontal juggle combos. Also wouldn't DI being less effective make chain grabs even easier?

 

[Dark Sonic]

No. We don't want to affect the character's attributes because they really are fine. Its an artificial speed increase to the game thats not needed when we have the source problem to fix

Umm...why not? People that have tried the code really seem to like it (including myself).

And reducing the effect of DI is also changing the character's attributes. You are changing the range of trajectories that any particular move a character has can send you at.

Yea, because captian falcon is soo slow he cant catch up to people.

Relative to the hitstun and trajectory of his moves!!!

And out of your list here are the viable options comprised of good and bad approaches to deal with this IMO of course

increase the hitstun
increase the speed of the characters
decrease the ending lag of the moves
decrease the knockback
decrease the DI's influence

Hitstun doesn't need to be higher
We already halved the landing lag of all moves, it doesn't need to be more
We shouldn't change the kb of moves

We could increase the speed of characters but that would be changing the characters attributes which is something we should avoid when we have the mechanic responsible to fix thats OP atm.

If you had read my post a little more closely, you would've seen that I acknowledged that some approaches are preferable to others. I'm disputing that your method is the best one to be implemented.

No I'm not talking about vertical stuff. I mained marth in melee and he didn't really have to move around that much especially to combo spacies. Maybe a jump here or there but he didn't have to run 3/4th the way of FD to combo with a dash attack, then run 1/2 way the other way to continue to the combo. Most of the combos at lower percents involved you staying relatively the same distance between yourself and the opponent. The combos were controlled and awesome because you didn't have to run a marathon to catch up to people when they had 10% damage on them!!

You do realize that you're talking about spacies at low percentages right? And that chaingrabs and tech chases are much more effective for racking damage at those low percentages right (as in, you should not be comboing them because they are at too low of a percentage to combo anyway).

And for characters like Samus, Marth, Peach (you know, foatier characters). you did have to chase them halfway across the stage over the course of 4 or 5 hits.
And heck, a lot of Marth's "combos" didn't even have the opponent locked in hitstun the whole time, but rather a combination of him outranging or outspeeding any form of retaliation (this is especially true of Samus, Luigi, and Jigglypuff). One of the first thing I had to learn about comboing non falcons/space animals was that my combos would be much more effective if I made sure that I started the combo when they had no second jump. The opponent escaping your combo when they DI correctly is no big deal.

But the approach game doesn't really need faster dashes!!

Why not? Dash dances get faster, more characters get dash cross ups, and overall it becomes harder to simply react to your opponent's approaches.

We already buffed the approach game with several codes!!

And we already buffed the combo game with several codes!! What's your point?

We still have the problem of running around at 15% damage and we should attack that by fixing the mechanic responsible instead of using an outside mechanc to do the job that arbitrary speeds changes the characters attributes!!!

Using that "outside mechanic" you kill two birds with one stone. You get more combos and you get a faster approach game.

The thing is, even at those times when you have to chase people a bit more to continue the combos, the DI was in check with the air speed of the game. What you have in brawl is the DI well surpasses the air speed of the game and if that can get fixed, fine we don't need a DI nerf. But if we can't and I fear that we really can't seeing how there is no mechanic built in the game to work with, DI should be the fix for the problem since that is the reason for the problem...not run speed.

I just explained that there are several reasons for the problem and how addressing any one of them would fix it. Increasing dash speed is not grabbing at some outside mechanic like you claim, since part of the reason that you can't follow up your combos is because your character does not move fast enough to reach them. You're trying to make them go less far in a certain amount of time, I'm trying to make you go farther. Don't act like we're initiating some kind of taboo with our fix, as it too addresses the problem directly. The problem is not that their DI carries them to far, the problem is that you can't combo. Their DI is a causes of the problem, but it is not the only cause.


If it turns out that there is no way to increase airspeed (which I highly doubt), then I might support DI increase (heck, I currently have no problems comboing at all. And Sonic has terrible airspeed, meaning I have to hit them, land, run to them, and then attack all before they get out of hitstun).

 

[.MaRiO]

People say that we PS is easy now but with the game play faster it is a different story.
I dont think we need to mess with the window at least not yet..

 

[MookieRah]

Currently, a character like CF can combo you no matter which direction you DI. You DI away, you get dash attacked.

Depends upon the situation and the percent. Also, the way you DI can also completely nerf the combos I'm able to do. Just because DI doesn't escape a combo entirely doesn't mean that it doesn't affect what the person on offense does.

Increasing dash speed would make this worse.

It would also make every character better, and give the traits you are describing to more characters.

Lowering hitstun to compensate will effect other characters combos as well. We'll always have the more combo oriented characters, but we don't want them OP'd because we want a faster game. Just know what your getting into.

A slight change in hitstun to make up for the enhanced speed of all the characters isn't that big of a deal. All characters are more mobile, so it goes without saying that you need less stun for combos to be present.

@dash speed haters
Increasing the dash speed isn't "arbitrary" nor is it incredibly foreign. It's not even that massive of a change. It speeds up the game, adds more combos, and lowers the hitstun that we need. The less extra hitstun we have the better, because that means there is less time of being somewhat helpless. The speed of the game is a factor, and even with the proposed changes I've brought up it still won't be melee. I'm not advocating this change because I think it needs to be just like melee, I advocate it because I think the game would be better, more skill intensive, and overall more enjoyable to most players/onlookers if the speed was increased.

If you actually look at all the changes we have made to speed up the game, you will notice that this is just like those. Changing the dash speed so the game feels faster is no less arbitrary than increase down gravity or making the ledges faster. It does what we want it to do very well, which is speed up the game.

From a casual "brawl player" perspective my roommate Brian very much enjoys all of the changes with my code set. He likes it cause it's so different than Brawl, yet still very similar. He enjoys both, although judging from how often he wants to play I'm thinking he likes Brawl+ even better. A lot of people that are worried that changes would alienate players have only been looking at it from the anti-Melee Brawl loving perspective. Screw those guys, they won't play Brawl+ anyways. I'm trying to make the best possible sequel to melee that I can with these codes. I'm trying to emulate Melee where I think that it did a good job, but in no way am I trying to make this into Melee. There are a lot of things that I think we can improve upon melee with these codes, and honestly some are existing Brawl features! I know it's crazy, right!

In any case, I'm actually a bit frustrated with people tossing out the words "arbitrary" and "artificial" when they address dash speed. It's bull****. Everything we have done is "artificial" the ****in game is "artificial." What the heck does that even mean? THIS CHANGE IS MAN MADE! Really... It is demeaning and insulting to me, when people look down on it, because there are many, many things we all disagree with code wise here, and for the most part we don't make a deal about it. If you want to make an argument that the change is bad and list reasons, that is fine. Don't give it a shoddy label and take a crap on it just cause it goes against what you believe we should be doing. Debate it, don't attack it.

 

[petre]

i just have to say one thing

64's DI to air speed was balanced

lol

Spoiler

10zerotodeaths

 

[kupo15]

And reducing the effect of DI is also changing the character's attributes. You are changing the range of trajectories that any particular move a character has can send you at.

DI is a "game mechanic" not a specific attribute to a character.

If you had read my post a little more closely, you would've seen that I acknowledged that some approaches are preferable to others. I'm disputing that your method is the best one to be implemented.

So if a really strong DI is the problem the wouldn't the best solution be to tweak the DI? Just like the solution to the combo problem was hitstun and not MAD even though MAD technically works.

I just explained that there are several reasons for the problem and how addressing any one of them would fix it. Increasing dash speed is not grabbing at some outside mechanic like you claim, since part of the reason that you can't follow up your combos is because your character does not move fast enough to reach them. You're trying to make them go less far in a certain amount of time, I'm trying to make you go farther. Don't act like we're initiating some kind of taboo with our fix, as it too addresses the problem directly. The problem is not that their DI carries them to far, the problem is that you can't combo. Their DI is a causes of the problem, but it is not the only cause.

But the problem is the air speed NOT the ground speed. If we could fix the air speed then no doubt the ground speed is fine for the combo game but IF we can not fix it, then the problem is clearly an over powered DI mechanic that unbalances the air speed to DI ratio that the previous two games had correct.

i just have to say one thing



lol

Spoiler

10zerotodeaths

No your wrong. The DI was balanced to the air speed. 64's problem was that the balanced didn't have enough DI in the mix which makes it feel imbalanced.

Very weak DI to balanced air speed
weak DI to balanced air speed
Moderate DI to balanced air speed
Strong DI to balanced air speed
Very strong DI to balanced air speed

These are all balanced systems but the results on gameplay are entirely different.

64: Very weak DI to balanced air speed-Not enough DI control is the cause of 0-deaths despite this system being balanced
melee: Moderate DI (not sure exactly which DI group) to balanced air speed-A balanced mix that allowed for some play in the DI trajectories but the air speed made up for that to keep you close if you are fast enough
Brawl: Very strong DI to imbalanced air speed- A LOT of DI play with limited and poor air speed which does not allow you to stay close in the air
Brawl+ with the air speed change: Very strong DI to balanced air speed-Like melee a balance between strong DI with an air speed that allows you to keep up if we can have an air speed increase code
Brawl+ with a DI adjustment: Strong DI to balanced air speed-Without an air speed code to balance this, bringing the DI down to the natural air speed will balance this system out

 

[Dark Sonic]

DI is a "game mechanic" not a specific attribute to a character.

So? DI directly affects the trajectories of attacks, which is a specific attribute to a specific move. What exactly is bad about changing the attributes of a character? We've already done it several times! How well a character combos is a character attribute, how good a character's approach game is is also a character attribute, how fast a character falls is a character attribute, ect. Why should this be any different?

So if a really strong DI is the problem the wouldn't the best solution be to tweak the DI?

But it is not the problem. It is one cause of the problem of not being able to combo. That is all it is and nothing more.

Just like the solution to the combo problem was hitstun and not MAD even though MAD technically works.

We used hitstun because MAD does work regardless (as in, even with wavedashing, most characters can't combo, and people can still attack them instead of airdodging). And as you stated here, comboing was the problem here, with hitstun being one possible solution (the solution that we inevitably deemed "the best") Just how comboing is still a problem and we are now talking about different solutions to the problem. We have narrowed it down to two solutions, and of the two, I think increasing dash speed (coupled with airspeed which I hope will come out later) is the better of the two.

But the problem is the air speed NOT the ground speed. If we could fix the air speed then no doubt the ground speed is fine for the combo game but IF we can not fix it, then the problem is clearly an over powered DI mechanic that unbalances the air speed to DI ratio that the previous two games had correct.

The problem does not change when one or more solutions becomes unviable. The problem is not being able to combo, not overpowered DI. Overpowered DI is a cause, not an effect, and it is only one of many causes. If no airspeed code is found, I may support this DI reduction.

But you do admit that increasing dash speed and airspeed is a better solution than reducing the effect of DI right?

 

[Alopex]

I'm not going to advocate any power shielding reductions UNTIL it becomes a problem. I've said that for a while now and I'm sticking to it. You guys ultimately don't know if it will ever become a problem and you are going to make it nearly impossible to actually power shield a melee attack. People are telling me that Brawl+ is not Melee cause I want a speed increase, yet you guys are messing with mechanics that were NEVER broken to begin with.

Also, there is no need to nerf DI or the PS yet, defense has been nerfed plenty already. We are being too heavyhanded with our seasonings here

EDIT: And I still don't think PSing needs changing. Just because you can do it all the time doesn't make it necessarily overpowered. I view it like L-cancelling, except it's harder to do and you don't die horribly if you mess it up.

You guys should just give it a shot first, at least.

Just try the 4 frame PS'ing window. I guarantee that what you guys are picturing in your head is not what actually happens.

It's not difficult. It's not impossible. It's very useful. It just feels... tighter, somehow.

I'm not going to argue anything with either of you because I, personally, feel that Brawl PS WAS broken by its ease. But I also understand where you guys are coming from.

So please just give the 4 frame PS a try and then come back and tell us how it felt. Just try it, because I don't think you'll have a problem with it once you do.

Here's the code, to make things simpler:

4 Frame Perfect Shielding
C27ACF7C 00000007
83FF007C 83FF0038
2C1F001A 40A20018
2C030008 4080000C
38600004 48000008
38600004 2C1F001C
40A20008 38600008
7C7F1B78 00000000

----------------------------------------

@Near perfect shield
Near perfect shield is borderline useless because there is no way to identify if you actually landed a near perfect shield. Most of the time if people land one it will be in an attempt to powershield, or they would do it accidentally. In the case of a missed power shield, that would mainly only be applicable for predictable approaches, so that would just make those "power hits" not a guaranteed free hit. The problem with near perfect shield still lies with the fact that nobody knows if they got it or not, so many near perfect shields will be wasted anyways.

Let's note the similarities:

It's not really a problem when you look more closely at it.

It's an interesting mechanic.

It really is freaking hard, like Melee PS hard, and the reward can be easily justified if you actually manage to pull it off intentionally.

You'll almost always end up PS'ing if you try to time it anyway; the NPS is just a way for you to get lucky. Because of that, no one will ever expect to get it and thus, in surprise, no one will react fast enough to make it useful.

The only attacks it really matters with are jabs, since timing it allows you to dodge a AA or AAA sequence.
You still can't shieldgrab though, because you'll get hit by the second jab before your grab connects. So it's not really a problematic phenomenon there either.

The NPS seems like an issue at first, but it's just so hard to pull off that it's a non-factor, really.

It's official. Mookie doesn't read my posts. =(

--------------------------------------------------------------------

in the shieldstun v2 code is the formula:

a) (The old_frames_stuned*X+Z)/Y=new_frames_stunned
b) ( The old_frames_stuned*X)+Z/Y=new_frames_stunned

and could you recommend me the values for X,Z,Y plz?

can someone answer me ?

The Version 2 equation is:

New frames stunned = S1
Old frames stunned = S

S1= (S*X+Z)/Y

The values you should be using for this are 11/22/5. That's 11 for X, 22 for Z, and 5 for Y.
They're the values I've found to be most ideal and have so far only received positive feedback. Give it a whirl and then give me your feedback too!


Speaking of which....

I'm using the SS from mookie's list

New Shield Stun 2.5/5(12 Lines)

Shield Stun 3 (11 Lines)

Osi! Mookie! You guys are behind the times. That shieldstun value and code are old now.

Here, use the 11/22/5 on Version 2. From the feedback I've received so far, it's the ideal value. And it's only 10 lines to boot. Weren't you at 257, Osi? This'll take you down to 255! Woot!

Shield Stun 2.0 11/22/5
C28753FC 00000005
83810034 809F007C
A0840006 2C04001A
41820014 1F9C000B
3B9C0016 38800005
7F9C23D6 00000000
C277F78C 00000003
2C1C001D 41820008
B39E0006 2C1CFFFF
60000000 00000000

-----------------------------------------

sheik is just stupid with her tilts anyway. She's always had that problem which I think she justifies a character specific nerf

And how would we go about doing that?

Nerfing damage? Not the core of the problem.
Nerfing ending lag? Possible, so long as it doesn't prevent the move from being a combo move.
Increasing its knockback so that it can still be a combo move but not a lock (like Melee's)? Sounds good to me.

 

[kupo15]

So? DI directly affects the trajectories of attacks, which is a specific attribute to a specific move. What exactly is bad about changing the attributes of a character? We've already done it several times! How well a character combos is a character attribute, how good a character's approach game is is also a character attribute, how fast a character falls is a character attribute, ect. Why should this be any different?

No not really. Each move has a specific trajectory they send people and they send it that way every time. DI is the defensive ability to help escape combos so if anything, a nerfed DI will allow the moves to send them more in the same path they are programmed to go and it limits the comboed's help a little.

But it is not the problem. It is one cause of the problem of not being able to combo. That is all it is and nothing more.

Your correct. The other problem is air speed and as I said before, I think if we can't fix air speed, then DI must be fixed. Ill repost my chart from above because I edited it late.

i just have to say one thing
lol

Spoiler

10zerotodeaths

No your wrong. The DI was balanced to the air speed. 64's problem was that the balanced didn't have enough DI in the mix which makes it feel imbalanced.

Very weak DI to balanced air speed
weak DI to balanced air speed
Moderate DI to balanced air speed
Strong DI to balanced air speed
Very strong DI to balanced air speed

These are all balanced systems but the results on gameplay are entirely different.

64: Very weak DI to balanced air speed-Not enough DI control is the cause of 0-deaths despite this system being balanced
melee: Moderate DI (not sure exactly which DI group) to balanced air speed-A balanced mix that allowed for some play in the DI trajectories but the air speed made up for that to keep you close if you are fast enough
Brawl: Very strong DI to imbalanced air speed- A LOT of DI play with limited and poor air speed which does not allow you to stay close in the air
Brawl+ with the air speed change: Very strong DI to balanced air speed-Like melee a balance between strong DI with an air speed that allows you to keep up if we can have an air speed increase code
Brawl+ with a DI adjustment: Strong DI to balanced air speed-Without an air speed code to balance this, bringing the DI down to the natural air speed will balance this system out

The problem does not change when one or more solutions becomes unviable. The problem is not being able to combo, not overpowered DI. Overpowered DI is a cause, not an effect, and it is only one of many causes. If no airspeed code is found, I may support this DI reduction.

We agree and disagree. I agree that the problem is not being able to combo well. But I believe the cause is an imbalance of air speed to DI. So let me rephrase this because I didn't before and you brought it to my attention:

Comboing is not efficient and its a problem which is the effect. I believe there are two causes to this problem
1. Poor air speed
2. OP DI

The DI is OP atm because the air speed can't keep up. If we can increase air speed without magically having bad side effects (since the game has nothing to work with) then we don't have to touch DI. BUT if we can't, then DI should be brought down to match the poor air speed we have to deal with.

But you do admit that increasing dash speed and airspeed is a better solution than reducing the effect of DI right?

No! I admit and have been a supporter of an increased air speed only to solve the problem.

And how would we go about doing that?

Nerfing damage? Not the core of the problem.
Nerfing ending lag? Possible, so long as it doesn't prevent the move from being a combo move.
Increasing its knockback so that it can still be a combo move but not a lock (like Melee's)? Sounds good to me.

That one sounds good to me

 

[CyberGlitch]

For those who think things are slowing down, this thread just had a huge explosion of awesome codes in the last week or so. That's why it's been extremely active.

Leafgreen, those are pretty good. I like the elimination of MK (despite the nerfs he's gotten in Brawl+, he's still way overpowered. Especially now recovery is more difficult). I'm going to post my own CSS once I can get a picture of it that I think is the best order possible, given Metaknight is eliminated, but it's all a matter of opinion, of course.

I've tried 0.95 upward gravity. Though I found the boost to some character's recoveries a plus (Link's), the full jump was noticeably higher, which disrupted the flow of most levels (where platforms are at a height appropriate for normal full jumps). It also made the game a bit too floaty. My experiences with 1.05 upward gravity seemed to show me that it was unnecessary as well.

 

[shanus]

So i finally got my gct worker goig on my mac. For some reason it wasnt working before but reinstalling made it all good!

Btw, +10% dash speed is nice. Subtle, and very smooth feeling.

Here is a copy of my text file, this code set feels very polished, prolly needs a hitstun tone down, but other than that I am happy:

-No tripping  KirbyisCool (2 lines)
0481CB34 C0220020
045A9340 00000000

Infinite replay unknown (3 lines)
040E5DE8 60000000
04953184 60000000
04953224 60000000

Auto L-cancel (32 Lines)
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
36000000 00000032
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
92210002 0000007C
92210003 00000014
58010000 000000C4
92210004 00000010
4A000000 805A0100
92210005 00000000
88A00004 00000005
4A001002 00000000
30000036 00000018
4A001003 00000000
92210005 00000040
88900005 00000004
94210005 00000040
E2000001 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

hit stun +10%(33 lines)
42000000 80000000
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
32000000 0000001C
36000000 00000032
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
92210002 00000070
58010000 0000007C
34000038 00000042
36000038 00000049
4A001002 00000000
58010000 00000024
58010000 0000000C
1400001C 00000088
14000018 00000088
E2000002 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000
045A9300 3F000000
C276CCD4 00000002
C022FFE0 EF7C0072
60000000 00000000

No Stale Moves 1 line (spunit262) 
02FC0988 00130000

Downwards Gravity (1.15x) 1 line
04641524 3F933333

shield stun 11/22/5 (10 lines)
C28753FC 00000005
83810034 809F007C
A0840006 2C04001A
41820014 1F9C000B
3B9C0016 38800005
7F9C23D6 00000000
C277F78C 00000003
2C1C001D 41820008
B39E0006 2C1CFFFF
60000000 00000000

Lagless ledges (24 lines)
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
36000000 00000032
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
92210002 00000014
58010000 0000007C
30000038 00000074
86000002 00000040
86910002 40800000
E2000001 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

No ASL (45 lines)
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
36000000 00000032
32000000 0000000F
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
92210002 0000007C
92210003 00000018
58010000 0000007C
58010000 0000002C
92210004 00000004
4A001002 00000000
C078172C 0000000B
9421FF80 BC410008
3C808000 60841808
80A40008 80C4000C
80E40010 C0060010
C026001C FC000840
40810014 890700D4
7108007F 990700D4
4800000C 890700D5
990700D4 B8410008
38210080 4E800020
60000000 00000000
34000038 00000111
E2000001 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000
C278172C 00000002
98030001 80010014
60000000 00000000
C27816E0 00000002
98030001 80010014
60000000 00000000

Stage reversed PKS2/Warioware(6 lines)
4A000000 90000000
1416A904 BF800000
22623090 00000014
22623090 0000001C
1416A904 3F800000
E0000000 80008000


Buffer 0 Frame (23 lines)
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
36000000 00000032
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000068
30000154 00000009
1400015C 00000001
14000150 00000001
E2000001 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000


dash dancing (5 lines)
C271F474 00000004
81830058 2C0C000E
4182000C C0230040
48000008 FC20D090
60000000 00000000

Hitlag division 60% (4 lines)
C2771EC0 00000004
39C0000A 2C040002
4180000C 1C840006
7C8473D6 90830010
60000000 00000000

Short Hop Height/Dash Speed/Fastfall Speed Multiplier (1, 1.1, 1)[Almas, 12 Lines]
045A930C 3F800000
045A9304 3F800000
045A9308 3F8CCCCC
C285765C 00000008
3FC0805A 3BDE7304
2C002F20 4082000C
C3FE2000 EC3F0072
2C002F00 4082000C
C3FE2004 EC3F0072
2C002F5C 4082000C
C3FE2008 EC3F0072
4E800020 00000000


Triple Jump Fix: Phantom Wings (26 lines)
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
36000000 00000032
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
92210002 00000070
58010000 0000007C
30000038 00000073
4A001002 00000000
58010000 00000020
92210002 0000001C
86310002 FFFFFFF7
E2000001 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

 

[Osi]

I'll try out that code for SS Alopex. Thanks for posting it.

For the dash speed thing. I don't see it as a "oh this is more 64/melee" or "this will fix everything for speed", but more of a outlook like "This doesn't seem to break anything and adds more possibilities to the game". I do feel brawl's ground game was a bit too slow, and this slight adjustment has fixed it for me. I couldn't see a negative in using a short code that adds speed/options without breaking anything. I'm aware the lower hitstun removes some combos, but it adds more also for each character, and the combos it removes were not ones I felt took a lot of skill (there are obvious exceptions). Even if we do have jump momentum I'd still be in favor of this code. I also feel like it will not turn off many Vbrawl users. The speed is not a new movement/tech and carries over the same character attributes, it's just a slight increase to the dash styles allready in the game, and it's so slight I doubt most new brawl+ users would notice it. Things like fast fall, dash dance, dash cancel, and gravity changed the game movements a lot more in my eyes than this slight increase.

 

[Raym]

Dash speed increase is so fun. It makes the matches more interesting to me.

 

[Alopex]

I have only one thing to ask about the dash speed increase:

Does it cause Capt. Falcon to go back to having his chaingrab?

If so, will the lower hitstun fix that?

Will the lower hitstun still get rid of Dedede's and Falco's chaingrabs?

Ok, so that was more than one thing.

Because I hate chaingrabs.

If all 3 of the above are still gone and there aren't any new ones created, then I'm perfectly fine with a dash speed increase, really.

 

[shanus]

Quick stupid question against, upward grav > 1.05 accelerates jumps right, but nerfs the height of them?

 

[Almas]

Yup

I'll try and get work done on codes tomorrow, provided my sleep schedule isn't completely ruined.

 

[BEES]

I'll just summarize what I think would be the optimum codeset for brawl+

Stuff that we all agree on:
-no tripping
-ALC
-hitstun +8-9%
-dash dance
-no ASL
-separated pokemon trainer
-attack decay modifier (whatever the current value is)
-anti-laserlock/tiltlock

Controversial:
-melee teching
-dash cancel with a low-friction slide, analogous to a wavedash
-brawl shielding, spotdodging, airdodging, and perfect shielding
-dash speed +.1
-fastfalling window beginning at ~40% the height of the jump

I think this set of rules is internally consistent. The strong Brawl defense is matched with greatly strengthened offense created by being better able to control the height and speed of jumps, and being able to dash faster, which leads to faster offensive attacks that can pressure shields and chase techs. Note the lack of gravity and jump modifiers, which become unnecessary due to the fastfalling, so no nerfs for heavy characters offstage or kills off the top.

The overall effect is a game with more offensive and defensive weapons.

 

[goodoldganon]

Whats the melee teching code do Bees? Mind posting it for me?

Also, does anyone have the dash speed 10% code they mind posting for me?

Last, Kupo don't get me (and I'm going to assume is everyone else) wrong. I'm skeptical at first of nerfing DI but I'll gladly try it if a code exists or is created. We'll all need to do testing and then agree with what we feel works best. In the end though, I assume many people will have some of their own rule sets for their friends.

 

[Deleted member]

melee tech doesn't exist (yet)

 

[goodoldganon]

Ah misread the post. Here I was getting all giddy and excited!

 

[shanus]

kupo and I were chatting on aim and I was playing on pictochat. The wind that blows enhances everyones air speed in one direction proportionally. Therefore there must be a global air speed modifier. Anyone with skills want to look into it?

 

[kupo15]

kupo and I were chatting on aim and I was playing on pictochat. The wind that blows enhances everyones air speed in one direction proportionally. Therefore there must be a global air speed modifier. Anyone with skills want to look into it?

That sounds like something worth checking out.

 

[Deleted member]

I could check that out

 

[goodoldganon]

Hey, is there supposed to be a space in this code? Sorry for all the questions.

Short Hop Height/Dash Speed/Fastfall Speed Multiplier (1, 1.1, 1)[Almas, 12 Lines]
045A930C 3F800000
045A9304 3F800000
045A9308 3F8CCCCC
C285765C 00000008
3FC0805A 3BDE7304
2C002F20 4082000C
C3FE2000 EC3F0072
2C002F00 4082000C
C3FE2004 EC3F0072
2C002F5C 4082000C

C3FE2008 EC3F0072
4E800020 00000000

 

[Alopex]

So... what's the plan?

Let's say everyone's airspeed can be proportionately increased with a code.

That still doesn't take momentum into account.

It would apply to airspeed all the time.

Is that what we want?
It would boost all recoveries. Which might be a good thing, since it would counter act the nerf to recoveries that the gravity mod gave.


I don't think it'll be possible to make a code that will only apply the airspeed increase if the character was dashing before they jumped...

 

[shanus]

So... what's the plan?

Let's say everyone's airspeed can be proportionately increased with a code.

That still doesn't take momentum into account.

It would apply to airspeed all the time.

Is that what we want?
It would boost all recoveries. Which might be a good thing, since it would counter act the nerf to recoveries that the gravity mod gave.


I don't think it'll be possible to make a code that will only apply the airspeed increase if the character was dashing before they jumped...

Since wind lasts so short on picto its hard to say, but it seemed almost as if launchspeed was accelerated as well, like it was proprtional. Hard to say, I have to wait through all the mini settings for like a 10 second window haha.

 

[Zilactic]

ok so i tried the new PS code and i have to say i didnt really notice a difference. PSing still seemed the same. maybe its just me. lol.

anyways, i also tried the the faster dash code as well and i (along with a lot of people it seems) think it adds to the possibilities that every character can do. if only that air speed/momentum code was out, then we would really be on to something.

now if only someone could make a code that puts megaman into the game...
*sigh* a guy can dream cant he? lol

 

[Deleted member]

has anyone tried doing this:
triple the hitlaglag (and +2) this really gices this epic fight feeling (GG anyone?)

 

[kupo15]

So... what's the plan?

Let's say everyone's airspeed can be proportionately increased with a code.

That still doesn't take momentum into account.

It would apply to airspeed all the time.

Is that what we want?
It would boost all recoveries. Which might be a good thing, since it would counter act the nerf to recoveries that the gravity mod gave.


I don't think it'll be possible to make a code that will only apply the airspeed increase if the character was dashing before they jumped...

yea thats what Im afraid of as well. Maybe the code can manipulate the winds constant based on the speed your running at.

 

[Deleted member]

that would be too complicated since it is one "wind" value for all people, that might as well just work directionally (-1 is wind to the left etc)

 

[kupo15]

ok well how about using the air speed part of this code instead?

Super Captain Falcon (46 lines, Phantom Wings)
80000000 90180FB8
80000001 81000000
60000006 00000000
4A001000 00000000
38000000 00FF0A00
4A001001 00000000
14284164 70000000
30283F50 00000112
14289F20 4F000000
3027FF98 40000000
1427FF98 42600000
14289CC8 42500000
14289DF4 4F000000
1428A04C 4F000000
3027FF99 42700000
1427FF98 42C00000
E2000002 00000000
30283F50 00000117
3027FF98 40000000
1427FF98 42500000
14289CC8 42400000
14289DF4 4F000000
1428A04C 4F000000
3027FF99 42800000
1427FF98 42C00000
E2000002 00000000
30283F50 00000113
3027FF98 00000000
1427FF98 41800000
14289CC8 41800000
3027FF99 42000000
1427FF98 42800000
E2000003 00000000
30283F50 00000004
142831AC 50000000
E2000001 00000000
30283F50 00000003
14289CC8 4F000000
E2000001 00000000
30283F50 00000008
1427FF98 4F000000
E200000F 00000000
80100000 0000005C
80100001 00052000
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XUBH_iClQE

 

[storm92]

kupo, that seems like a good idea ^^

 

[shanus]

Also special brawl (fast mode) enhances everything proportionally with no glitches. Jump speed, acceleration, air speed, etc. Might be something to see in there too. Just throwing out ideas haha

 

[cAm8ooo]

Lol CPU DK needs to learn how to DI. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BpSIU-tbPU

 

[Alopex]

The air momentum code seems like it would take a lot of effort.

We're essentially creating a new mechanic, as previous coders have pointed out.

Why don't we focus on fixing some of the things we already have first, so that we have everything ironed out before we have to test something else? Can't be harder than creating a new mechanic...

I'm referring to:

- Hitlag on electric moves
- 0 buffer not having instant aerials
- Triple jump glitch fix was having some issue with some UpB, IIRC


I mean, it's great that we're seeing a huge overflow of codes, but shouldn't we iron things out before we move on to new things?

And if we are going to move on to new things regardless, then I need to ask:
Grab releases. Is it really that complicated to fix them?

We know the problem and we know the needed solution.
How tricky would it be to make all ground releass, air release, and grab break animations last 30 frames universally?

It can't be that hard to find the grab release and grab break values and then make a code to alter them, can it?

 

[kupo15]

The air momentum code seems like it would take a lot of effort.

We're essentially creating a new mechanic, as previous coders have pointed out.

Why don't we focus on fixing some of the things we already have first, so that we have everything ironed out before we have to test something else?

I'm referring to:

- Hitlag on electric moves
- 0 buffer not having instant aerials
- Triple jump glitch fix was having some issue with some UpB, IIRC


I mean, it's great that we're seeing a huge overflow of codes, but shouldn't we iron things out before we move on to new things?

And if we are going to move on to new things regardless, then I need to ask:
Grab releases. Is it really that complicated to fix them?

We know the problem and we know the needed solution.
How tricky would it be to make all ground releass, air release, and grab break animations last 30 frames universally?

It can't be that hard to find the release values and then make a code to alter them, can it?

Well I think there needs to be a new code made for the YES lag.

You also need to give ppl there second jump back whenever you grab them as well

 

[Alopex]

Well I think there needs to be a new code made for the YES lag.

You also need to give ppl there second jump back whenever you grab them as well

You mean like fixing grabbing Snake's UpB glitch and grabbing people over the edge after they've used their second jump?

Sure, I'm cool with that. But those issues are less prevalent than the release issues, though, so I'd say we should prioritize the release/break frames first. And like I said, we already know what needs to be done in this case. We're just looking for the values that affect the frames length so that we can modify them.

And what's up with YES! lag?