COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[kupo15]

Is that -60% +1?

I think that's -60% with a break point of 2.

Also, put me down as a Kirby tester. Kirby is amazing in B+.

Yes its 60% break 2 so that 1 stays 1

We don't.

10don'tneeddashspeedcodes

YES PLEASE!!!

Do you like it more than 50% and why?

I think 50% feels too fast for some reason. I can't put my finger on it but 60% feels right.

I know you can't be expected to read this whole thread, but making an air momentum code is extremely challenging if possible at all. Do not get your hopes up.

Then the next best thing would be to weaken DI so you don't have to travel as far. That would make things feel better and you can lower hitstun this way.

Orca just summed up things very nicely.


To add in a little, I think maybe increasing ground speed very slightly is alright. Not as much as 20% as some people have reported, but maybe by 5 or 10% to just add slightly flexibility in combo potential, but nothing more than that. Otherwise the air game will feel unnatrual aand discontinuous requiring more codes which already have been deemed near impossible.

Its still unnecessary.

any news on possibly combining some codes together?

No but I hope it happens soon

 

[shanus]

The punishment for missing a tech should not be guaranteed death in those stages.
The punishment for missing a tech should not be humongous damage because of reduced decay in Brawl+.

The punishment for missing an L-cancel or a tech in Melee were never that severe, and if they were, they were never that easy to pull off compared to the no skill these locks require.

This is too severe a punishment with too little effort from the attacker.

Sorry but not true. Missing an L–cancel or tech could easily land you in a 0-death in melee. And that is from skill on the attackers end. Granted we are talking about locks here, but just be careful with the dramatic lingo.

 

[kupo15]

Here is an update code list. Changes include 9% hitstun and I took off the upwards grav.

http://rapidshare.com/files/183460711/Brawl_.txt.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/183460712/RSBE01.gct.html

 

[shanus]

Yes its 60% break 2 so that 1 stays 1

YES PLEASE!!!

No those codes do not artificially speed up the game. Those are fundamental fixes the game needs and a side effect is a faster game play. An artificial speed increase are codes that speed things up for the hell of it like faster dashing. No. Keep the dashes natural.

I think 50% feels too fast for some reason. I can't put my finger on it but 60% feels right.

Because we are not going to artificially speed up the game play just because. You could play matches in training mode in 1.5 speed. That would speed up the gameplay like you desire, but its artificial. The same can be said with increasing dashes. Its not needed.

Then the next best thing would be to weaken DI so you don't have to travel as far. That would make things feel better and you can lower hitstun this way.

Its still unnecessary.

Are you saying that if ganon had the ground speed of sonic then it would be harder to combo?

You might be waiting a while. Its still not neccessary. We can't make this game melee's speed without making it artificial feeling. The game feels plenty fast to me for brawl.

No but I hope it happens soon

I don't think a slight speed increase is unnecessary. It gives more options to link together aerials or even techchase. One of my favorite things in melee was techchasing. If you haven't watched SilentSpectre play much, go youtube some vids of him and you'll understand why a bit faster dashing could enhance the metagame of Brawl+ significantly. I'm not talking about a HUGE boost in dash speed, something more subtle, like 10 or maybe 15%. I have yet to toy with it but I thikn itd be a nice touch from what ive read.

 

[ShortFuse]

Hey guys, I'm still working on the application to make GCT easier

 

[Alopex]

Sorry but not true. Missing an L–cancel or tech could easily land you in a 0-death in melee. And that is from skill on the attackers end. Granted we are talking about locks here, but just be careful with the dramatic lingo.

The punishment for missing an L-cancel or a tech in Melee were never that severe, and if they were, they were never that easy to pull off compared to the no skill these locks require.

This is too severe a punishment with too little effort from the attacker.

Bolded for emphasis.

Are you going to tell me that these locks require the skill that that level of punishment required in Melee? Cause if so, I'm going to have to call you crazy.

Anyone can press B with Falco to 0-death someone on a missed tech.

You're not going to get a 0-death on a missed tech in Melee unless you know your ****.

 

[GPDP]

ShortFuse, that program looks amazing. It would really make everyone's lives that much easier.

However, where is the option for dash dancing? I know you said you didn't like it, but come on.

 

[Problem2]

oh wow, that looks great shortfuse. You should make a way so that you can add manual codes too for the people who want silly things.

 

[Master Peach]

Hey guys, I'm still working on the application to make GCT easier

Dude you rule! That's looking Awesome. I need that.

 

[shanus]

Hey guys, I'm still working on the application to make GCT easier

mac port plz. pretty awesome right there

 

[kupo15]

I don't think a slight speed increase is unnecessary. It gives more options to link together aerials or even techchase. One of my favorite things in melee was techchasing. If you haven't watched SilentSpectre play much, go youtube some vids of him and you'll understand why a bit faster dashing could enhance the metagame of Brawl+ significantly. I'm not talking about a HUGE boost in dash speed, something more subtle, like 10 or maybe 15%. I have yet to toy with it but I thikn itd be a nice touch from what ive read.

Yea because falcons combos relied from tech chases and prediction in that manner. You are NOT going to see tech chasing like you saw in melee because of the way moves send you out and the floatiness and forcing the engine to have high gravity for the shear fact of replicating that will have negative side effects. I feel people are losing sight of the goals of this project and are getting carried away..

Hey guys, I'm still working on the application to make GCT easier

Thats freakin AWESOME!

 

[ShortFuse]

I'm confused on the hitlag. Kupos' text says it's 4 lines but I count 5. QUE?

Also, why is these a highlighted yellow on lagless ledges v1? and why is v2 so many lines more?

 

[shanus]

Bolded for emphasis.

Are you going to tell me that these locks require the skill that that level of punishment required in Melee? Cause if so, I'm going to have to call you crazy.

Anyone can press B with Falco to 0-death someone on a missed tech.

You're not going to get a 0-death on a missed tech in Melee unless you know your ****.

Well the only thing is we don't know if a lock in brawl+ can be used to get into a combo which is an interesting idea. I.e. lock for 10%, then jab to forced stand into grab nair knee etc. But yeah, I did breeze through your post too quickly to notice your new bolded for emphasis. Locks are lame though, I wouldn't mind seeing em go. Overall, I don't know what the point of my post is. lol

 

[leafgreen386]

Shortfuse, that looks amazing. The only problem I have with it so far is the notation you're using for the stale moves. If there was no fresh bonus, a move would have a power of 1 with no stale moves affecting it. Each spot in the queue takes away .10, .09, .08, .07, .06, .05, .04, .03, and .02 respectively from that value of 1, while a fresh move gains .05 power. So if a move is in spots 1, 2, and 4, it has a multiplier of .74 applied to it (in regular brawl, of course). I think it'd be best if you were to just leave this in decimal. I'd also put the gravity values in decimal, but that's just me.

 

[zxeon]

Hey guys, I'm still working on the application to make GCT easier

Aside from the stuff we can plainly see what else does it do?

 

[MookieRah]

I love everything about your codeset mookie except that you cant fast fall a downair off stage or you will die lol I figured this out with kirby when i plunged to my death a few times on forgettin.

Dairs are the only real problem with that. Also, Kirby can still dair **** people at FF 110%, my roommate did that to me a few times already. There needs to be a fix for the auto fast-fall nonsense, cause otherwise the fast fall speed isn't bad.

I thought Brawl was slow because of the floatiness, the hitlag, no combos so people lived till forever, no l-canceling so attacks have huge aerial lag, the campiness that made matches drag on. I don't think I ever heard people say that characters don't run fast enough. Hey, guess you learn something each day.

Play melee for 10 seconds. Talk to ex Melee players who dropped Brawl. It is for all the reasons you say, yet when I showed them Brawl+ a month ago they still talked about how the gameplay is still slower. Dash speed goes a long way to speed it up. If upgrav 1.05 is gold then that will help too. All that is left is for a toning down of the air resistance to make aerial movement faster, or a code that keeps ground momentum. A universal speed correction would be nice, but as they said it is buggy. Also, the moves the characters perform are fast enough, so all that needs to be sped up is movement options and it's good to go.

If people want speed then why are so many using such low gravity values?

That's cause it does nerf everyone's recovery a little because you fall faster so you can't recover from as far away. I think it's a good thing, as people die faster now and it effects every character pretty evenly, save for like ROB, Pit, and Meta. Of those Meta is likely to be banned and Pit's recovery got a huge nerf cause his upB gets him killed if he tries to grab a ledge. Rob isn't broken, but is good, so I guess he can have a small victory *shrug*.

 

[shanus]

Yea because falcons combos relied from tech chases and prediction in that manner. You are NOT going to see tech chasing like you saw in melee because of the way moves send you out and the floatiness and forcing the engine to have high gravity for the shear fact of replicating that will have negative side effects. I feel people are losing sight of the goals of this project and are getting carried away..


Thats freakin AWESOME!

I don't know about that. I'm playing with falcon now, and with the stomps I get now, i often can stomp to a grab which can link to nairs or knees, or direct stomp to knee. And he still can tech–chase okay, not awesome though but just tossing that out there... So I do think tech chasing can be critical in B+.

 

[ShortFuse]

Shortfuse, that looks amazing. The only problem I have with it so far is the notation you're using for the stale moves. If there was no fresh bonus, a move would have a power of 1 with no stale moves affecting it. Each spot in the queue takes away .10, .09, .08, .07, .06, .05, .04, .03, and .02 respectively from that value of 1, while a fresh move gains .05 power.

I know this, but those are the default values as read by the memory. I don't know if I should incorporate the 5% bonus in the field. I probably should

Edit: Fixed, now it says 105% for Q0 (Fresh)

 

[kupo15]

I'm confused on the hitlag. Kupos' text says it's 4 lines but I count 5. QUE?

Also, why is these a highlighted yellow on lagless ledges v1? and why is v2 so many lines more?

Because I must have forgotten to add the many other versions of the hitlag code.

The smaller lagless speeds up the animation and the longer one overwrites inputs for down and back.

 

[shanus]

Holy cow. In that one post I wrote, there were 7 others :O

 

[kupo15]

I don't know about that. I'm playing with falcon now, and with the stomps I get now, i often can stomp to a grab which can link to nairs or knees, or direct stomp to knee. And he still can tech–chase okay, not awesome though but just tossing that out there... So I do think tech chasing can be critical in B+.

Im not saying its not important but you won't see it to the effect of melee and trying to emulate melees teching game is a slippery slope.

 

[ShortFuse]

Because I must have forgotten to add the many other versions of the hitlag code.

The smaller lagless speeds up the animation and the longer one overwrites inputs for down and back.

I have no idea what you just said.

Your text file says

Hitlag division (4 lines)
* C2771EC0 00000004
* 39C0000A 2C040002
* 4180000C 1C840006
* 7C8473D6 90830010
* 60000000 00000000
60%

oh the second line talks about edge. should i include both?
and why is 40800000 written in yellow for the first one. should i set that as variable?

 

[cAm8ooo]

@mookie-Yea, it's a bad side effect but still worth it i think.

@kupo- Is there anyone workin on the auto-fastfall d-airs?

edit: Wow.. lots of post all of a sudden.

 

[leafgreen386]

I know this, but those are the default values as read by the memory. I don't know if I should incorporate the 5% bonus in the field. I probably should

Edit: Fixed, now it says 105% for Q0 (Fresh)

Huh? How can it be being read as 100%? Or any % for that matter. The first move takes away .10 from 1.0, which is actually only 10% of the strength of the move. Following this convention, the Q0 should be 150%, which is obviously ridiculous. Are you absolutely sure you have this right?

 

[kupo15]

I have no idea what you just said.

Your text file says

Hitlag division (4 lines)
* C2771EC0 00000004
* 39C0000A 2C040002
* 4180000C 1C840006
* 7C8473D6 90830010
* 60000000 00000000
60%

oh the second line talks about edge. should i include both?
and why is 40800000 written in yellow for the first one. should i set that as variable?

Oh thats a mistake.
Don't touch the yellow. Its set at a good value but you can fool with it if you want

@mookie-Yea, it's a bad side effect but still worth it i think.

@kupo- Is there anyone workin on the auto-fastfall d-airs?

edit: Wow.. lots of post all of a sudden.

not at the moment. Im trying to get pw to work on the electric hitlag and after that i expect he will want time off to work on the texture project.

 

[ShortFuse]

Huh? How can it be being read as 100%? Or any % for that matter. The first move takes away .10 from 1.0, which is actually only 10% of the strength of the move. Following this convention, the Q0 should be 150%, which is obviously ridiculous. Are you absolutely sure you have this right?

Stale Move Ratio Modifier (EXPLANATION)

Brawl's default

06FC0988 00000028 Code initiation line (must be here)
fresh 3D4CCCCD 1 3DCCCCCD---- 5%(Fresh bonus when not in queue), 0.1
2 3DB851EC 3 3DA3D70A ---- 0.09, 0.08
4 3D8F5C29 5 3D75C28F----- 0.07, 0.06
6 3D4CCCCD 7 3D23D70A----- 0.05, 0.04
8 3CF5C28F 9 3CA3D70A ----0.03, 0.02

Green=Number in stale queue

So stale moves are:
Fresh (105%), 100%, 90%, 80%....20%

^^^ Read the last line ^^^

Kupos, I got some questions, instead of filling up the board msg me on AIM at NihilisticDogma

 

[cobaltblue]

@johe: Yea a mail list of sorts would be the best way of cirulating this list. Although I believe B+ already has a group here on the forums. Kupo owns it I think.

Everyone else: Correct me if I missed you but everyone should be updated since my last posting. Busy school days have me going through 10 pages worth of posts looking for mains.

Also what is the importance of keeping Gannon's thunderstomp? I'm not familer with the character but is this one of his actual moves thats getting nerfed like sonic's up b does in heavy brawl? Or just a technique that is essitential to his game? If the latter it does seem logical to worry about it when everyone across the board is getting nerfs and buffs. Finally updated list for everyone!

[FONT="Arial Black"]

[COLOR="Red"]Bowser:[/COLOR]
*Kupo15
*GPDP 
*SketchHurricane

[COLOR="Red"]Captain Falcon:[/COLOR]
Kupo15
Shanus
Osi
zxeon
plasmatorture 
GPDP 
storm92 
Starscream
paprika killer

[COLOR="Red"]Charizard:[/COLOR]
plasmatorture 
Jiangjunizzy

[COLOR="Red"]Falco:[/COLOR]
Osi
zxeon
plasmatorture 
GPDP 
storm92 
Starscream

[COLOR="Red"]Fox:[/COLOR]
Osi
KayJay
Zilactic
johe
leafgreen386
plasmatorture 
storm92 
paprika killer 

[COLOR="Red"]King D3:[/COLOR]
Kupo15
Osi

[COLOR="Red"]Diddy Kong:[/COLOR]
Shanus
Osi*
plasmatorture 

[COLOR="Red"]DK:[/COLOR]
Shadic
Osi
leafgreen386
*GPDP 
storm92 

[COLOR="Red"]Ganondorf:[/COLOR]
Kupo15
Shanus
leafgreen386
*GPDP 

[COLOR="Red"]Iceclimbers:[/COLOR]
Osi

[COLOR="Red"]Ike:[/COLOR]
Shadic
plasmatorture 

[COLOR="Red"]Ivysaur:[/COLOR]
Shadic
Jiangjunizzy

[COLOR="Red"]Jigglypuff:[/COLOR]
Osi
*plasmatorture
leafgreen386

[COLOR="Red"]Kirby:[/COLOR]
plasmatorture 
storm92 

[COLOR="Red"]Link:[/COLOR]
Shadic
KayJay

[COLOR="Red"]Lucas:[/COLOR]
*plasmatorture

[COLOR="Red"]Lucario:[/COLOR]
Paprika Killer
Shanus
Osi*
plasmatorture

[COLOR="Red"]Luigi:[/COLOR]
plasmatorture 
storm92 

[COLOR="Red"]Mario:[/COLOR]
Kupo15
Osi
Marioblaze

[COLOR="Red"]Marth:[/COLOR]
*Osi
zxeon
plasmatorture 
GPDP 
storm92 
Starscream

[COLOR="Red"]MetaKnight:[/COLOR]
Paprika Killer
Shanus
Zilactic

[COLOR="Red"]Mr. Game & Watch:[/COLOR]
*plasmatorture
Raym

[COLOR="Red"]Ness:[/COLOR]
Kupo15
Shanus
*Osi
leafgreen386
plasmatorture 

[COLOR="Red"]Olimar:[/COLOR]
Shanus
*plasmatorture
Zilactic

[COLOR="Red"]Peach:[/COLOR]
Osi
KayJay
storm92 

[COLOR="Red"]pikachu:[/COLOR]
Osi
leafgreen386
plasmatorture 
Raym

[COLOR="Red"]Pit:[/COLOR]
Kupo15
Osi
*plasmatorture

[COLOR="Red"]Rob:[/COLOR]
*Shanus
paprika killer 

[COLOR="Red"]Samus:[/COLOR]
Kupo15
Osi

[COLOR="Red"]Sheik:[/COLOR]
Osi
johe
leafgreen386
plasmatorture 
storm92 

[COLOR="Red"]Snake[/COLOR]
*GPDP 
Jiangjunizzy

[COLOR="Red"]Sonic:[/COLOR]
Kupo15
*Osi
KayJay  	
Dark Sonic

[COLOR="Red"]Squirtle:[/COLOR]
WeirdoZ Inc
plasmatorture 

[COLOR="Red"]Wario:[/COLOR]
Zilactic

[COLOR="Red"]Wolf:[/COLOR]
Osi
plasmatorture 

[COLOR="Red"]Yoshi:[/COLOR]
Osi
Kayjay
plasmatorture 
*storm92
 
[COLOR="Red"]Zelda:[/COLOR]
Kayjay
*plasmatorture
*storm92 

[COLOR="Red"]ZSS:[/COLOR]
Kupo15
*Osi
Yeroc 

[I]* Indicates rarely used or played by person in poster's smash group.[/I]
[/FONT]

 

[.MaRiO]

Not sure why this is but I just noticed that I cant wall jump anymore
You know where you jump into the wall and then just push the opposite direction and it bounces off. It doesnt jump anymore just kinda floats there.. Weird anyone else have same problem?

 

[Starscream]

Play melee for 10 seconds. Talk to ex Melee players who dropped Brawl. It is for all the reasons you say, yet when I showed them Brawl+ a month ago they still talked about how the gameplay is still slower. Dash speed goes a long way to speed it up. If upgrav 1.05 is gold then that will help too. All that is left is for a toning down of the air resistance to make aerial movement faster, or a code that keeps ground momentum. A universal speed correction would be nice, but as they said it is buggy. Also, the moves the characters perform are fast enough, so all that needs to be sped up is movement options and it's good to go.

I've played Melee plenty, but Brawl+ isn't Melee. But I've tried it at 1.1x dash speed and I don't have a problem with it. Since I used 1.1 on the glitchy speed modifier and found it to be awesome I thought it would make sense to start with that.

And I really didn't notice much of a difference with 1.05 upwards gravity when it comes to the speed of the jump. I just use 0.9 shorthop and 1.25 downward grav and it feels fine to me. *shrug*

That's cause it does nerf everyone's recovery a little because you fall faster so you can't recover from as far away. I think it's a good thing, as people die faster now and it effects every character pretty evenly, save for like ROB, Pit, and Meta. Of those Meta is likely to be banned and Pit's recovery got a huge nerf cause his upB gets him killed if he tries to grab a ledge. Rob isn't broken, but is good, so I guess he can have a small victory *shrug*.

I'm glad we agree on gravity. I think 1.25 is an excellent setting.

 

[leafgreen386]

Shortfuse: first off, congrats at 1200 posts. Second, I don't know what is up with that percent thing at the bottom, but basically, it's... wrong (with the exception of the move when fresh). Just use the values we actually plug in to the code. It'll be way easier for everyone.

@cobalt: Ganon's thunderstorm is very important to his game. Ordinarily, has dair has a lot of lag (even with ALC), but being able to fire that off with no lag upon landing helps his game tremendously.

 

[GPDP]

Hmmm, speaking of texture hacks... would it be possible to somehow substitute the Press Start screen to one that says Brawl+? Or at least the one in the menu?

Just throwing ideas out there.

 

[zxeon]

Hmmm, speaking of texture hacks... would it be possible to somehow substitute the Press Start screen to one that says Brawl+? Or at least the one in the menu?

Just throwing ideas out there.

That would be nice.

 

[matt4300]

my game keeps freezing up on me.... it started a while back but it was only corneria now it just freezes randomly sometimes right when i start a match .... my code set is

DD
SH/DASH/FF
No buffer
no tripping
Up/Down speed
ALC
Hitstun
the 2 ledge codes
1/2 power stale moves
hitlag division
shield gain
shield stun
custom CSS
shield up/PS/drop
2 stage builder codes
pause link camera

also i was haveing glitchy problems with ALC it worked but instead of halfing the lage it dident have any at all like shield canceling but with no hold L


edit: @_@ i have been trying codes since brawl + started and i have never been this scared.....
none of my chars can create objects like links bombs, nesses pk fires... ect.... and the game freezes really fast

please tell me what i should do!?

 

[CyberGlitch]

Turn off the stage builder codes, they sometimes cause problems. Only use them when modifying stages. That may fix your problem.

Oh, and Kupo, your hitlag division code says "4 lines" when it's actually five.

And I found Almas's short hitlag reduction code (divide by 2, add 1)

Hitlag Reduction [Phantom Wings, Almas, 4 Lines]
C2771EC0 00000003
39C00002 7C8473D6
38840001 90830010
60000000 00000000

This one is actually four lines.

 

[GPDP]

Welp, with the Custom CSS code, I'm up to 256 lines.

is it can it be code combining tiem plz

 

[matt4300]

@_@_@_@_@_@_@_@ OH **** OH ****....!!!! WII SYSTEM FILES CORRUPTED!!!!! WTF OH ****!!!

i knew something was up! this is very bad ... does this mean my wii is bricked!?!?!?!

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

my game keeps freezing up on me.... it started a while back but it was only corneria now it just freezes randomly sometimes right when i start a match .... my code set is

DD
SH/DASH/FF
No buffer
no tripping
Up/Down speed
ALC
Hitstun
the 2 ledge codes
1/2 power stale moves
hitlag division
shield gain
shield stun
custom CSS
shield up/PS/drop
2 stage builder codes
pause link camera

also i was haveing glitchy problems with ALC it worked but instead of halfing the lage it dident have any at all like shield canceling but with no hold L


edit: @_@ i have been trying codes since brawl + started and i have never been this scared.....
none of my chars can create objects like links bombs, nesses pk fires... ect.... and the game freezes really fast

please tell me what i should do!?

delete any crazy custom stages you made. turn off your stage builder codes. i remember someone saying if you make a custom stage with too many parts, the extra size of the stage is saved somewhere else and could overwrite some other saved data.

 

[CyberGlitch]

Well I doubt this has to do with the coding, but it unfortunately may mean so.

I'm not sure how this would have happened for you, have you done any other hacks with Homebrew besides geckoOS?

 

[goodoldganon]

That sucks matt, I'm unsure.

Has there been talk of making a code that prevent you from fast-falling when using the c-stick? I doubt it's possible but it still sucks a whole lot.

EDIT: Oh ya. I still play a lot of 4 player matches, and my roommates and I made a soft ban for Meta Knight, but it's always upsetting to get him in random. Any chance we can remove him from random? lol

By the way, is there anything I can test/help with. I don't want to seem so needy with nothing to return.

 

[kupo15]

Sucks Matt. At least you can have it fixed for free.

I added a new code that needs testing for those who wanted it. Ill be testing it myself..

Turn off the stage builder codes, they sometimes cause problems. Only use them when modifying stages. That may fix your problem.

Oh, and Kupo, your hitlag division code says "4 lines" when it's actually five.

And I found Almas's short hitlag reduction code (divide by 2, add 1)

Hitlag Reduction [Phantom Wings, Almas, 4 Lines]
C2771EC0 00000003
39C00002 7C8473D6
38840001 90830010
60000000 00000000

This one is actually four lines.

So I hear. It will be fixed in the next version