COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[johe]

But the thing is hitlag, ALC, and downwards gravity are needed. They're fixes to things people have been complaining about.
Increasing a dash speed is simply unnecessary as far as I see it; how much have people been complaining of the slow dash speeds in Brawl? AFAIK, it's just that the game overall is slower, but we speed it up with other codes.
Also, we lower hitstun proportionally. We don't lower it to make combos more difficult, but when we add codes which make combos insane (like grav mod and 11.75%) we then lower it down to what it would be with the new code. The goal here isn't low hitstun, it's a hitstun value that matches the codes we use.

We don't lower them to make combos harder, but it inevitably does, also, if people are complaining about the general speed of the game, then why not just add another speed increase?

 

[shanus]

I know you can't be expected to read this whole thread, but making an air momentum code is extremely challenging if possible at all. Do not get your hopes up.

 

[Dan_X]

But why do we need to add things to lower hitstun.
It's not as if we're trying to lower hitstun, the hitstun goes with whatever codes we're using.
The dash speed code is simply unnecessary, it's just speeding up the game artificially.

Exactly..

But isn't that what hitlag is, and downwards gravity, and ALC.

all those are is speeding up some aspect of the game artificially and I say, if the Dash speed code feels good, why not try it and see if we can lower hitstun some more.

The reason I think we need to lower hitstun is simple, combos are a bit too easy right now. I want to get a feeling of accomplishment when I pull off a combo, not a feeling that that is common place, also, if hitstun was lowered, wouldn't that also make MK edgegaurding just a bit less OP? Maybe if we lower hitstun enough, we won't even need to ban him, and a nerf will suffice.

I don't agree, there's no need to lower hitstun. As it is, most people use 10%, and many are talking about going to 9%. We aren't making codes with the sheer thought that we can now lower hitstun more.

Many of the codes, without LITERALLY increasing the game speed, naturally do so. That's the point that storm made, that you failed to understand. For example, lagless edges, hitlag, ALC, etc.. are all game mechanics that work to speed up the game in some way, without literally increasing the game speed by some artificial means. Gravity codes can be considered artificial, but many consider them just because they lessen the floaty feel of Brawl, and at the same time tighten gameplay. Obviously, the gravity codes are simply meager tweaks in gravity, nothing over the top.

The game feels great with the above codes and more, it feels very fast. I don't see why a dashspeed code is necessary. Promoting said code could very well create a whole host of problems that's not worth getting into. For example, we'd need an aerial speed code to reflect the dash speed code otherwise things would feel out of place, also, it'd promote the ground game far more than the air game without an air code. Speeding up the air game would likely cause us to lower air resistance, as such, people would die way to early because the value that had once slowed down knockback would have been lessened. To fix this, we'd have to then universally decrease knockback, but by how much, and what else would that change? There'd be so many variables involved, I don't even want to think about it.

What we do need, is an aerial momentum code, which after the momentum regular aerial resistance would factor in. This would be an amazing code.

If I were to use a dash code, I'd only use a very minute amount of a speed boost, otherwise, I really don't think that the gameplay is so slow now that it merits the use of this code.

 

[goodoldganon]

I agree with everything Orca said. If we make the ground game too strong or dominant by speeding it up, we'll lose the air game and so on and so forth. The changes so far have greatly increased the speed of the game so I see no reason to make a dash speed code.

That being said, I think 10% is a little too high for the hitstun. I recently moved down to 9% but haven't had much time to mess around with it. I think in the end I'll personally end up with something around 8% or 8.5% because I still play a decent amount of 4 player matches and no one likes getting juggled for a whole life.

 

[shanus]

Orca just summed up things very nicely.


To add in a little, I think maybe increasing ground speed very slightly is alright. Not as much as 20% as some people have reported, but maybe by 5 or 10% to just add slightly flexibility in combo potential, but nothing more than that. Otherwise the air game will feel unnatrual aand discontinuous requiring more codes which already have been deemed near impossible.

 

[johe]

Exactly..



I don't agree, there's no need to lower hitstun. As it is, most people use 10%, and many are talking about going to 9%. We aren't making codes with the sheer thought that we can now lower hitstun more.

To me, it feels like combos are a bit to common in Brawl+ and lowering hitstun, for whatever reason, is going to result in harder combos and thus, a bit of an offensive nerf, which, while I didn't touch on that in my last post, is something I feel this game needs, since it is almost always a bad idea to shield most things, because they reset the situation with you having less shield. this may just be my experience from having played a really offensive marth though.

Many of the codes, without LITERALLY increasing the game speed, naturally do so. That's the point that storm made, that you failed to understand. For example, lagless edges, hitlag, ALC, etc.. are all game mechanics that work to speed up the game in some way, without literally increasing the game speed by some artificial means. Gravity codes can be considered artificial, but many consider them just because they lessen the floaty feel of Brawl, and at the same time tighten gameplay. Obviously, the gravity codes are simply meager tweaks in gravity, nothing over the top.

And I am proposing a meager tweak in dash speed to both speed up the game in general, and make combos faster and therefore harder to pull off.

The game feels great with the above codes and more, it feels very fast. I don't see why a dashspeed code is necessary. Promoting said code could very well create a whole host of problems that's not worth getting into. For example, we'd need an aerial speed code to reflect the dash speed code otherwise things would feel out of place, also, it'd promote the ground game far more than the air game without an air code. Speeding up the air game would likely cause us to lower air resistance, as such, people would die way to early because the value that had once slowed down knockback would have been lessened. To fix this, we'd have to then universally decrease knockback, but by how much, and what else would that change? There'd be so many variables involved, I don't even want to think about it.

I don't see why we would need a new aerial speed code if we are just boosting the dashspeed a little bit

What we do need, is an aerial momentum code, which after the momentum regular aerial resistance would factor in. This would be an amazing code.

How is this not an artificial speed increase, I will say, that I would prefer an ariel momentum code

If I were to use a dash code, I'd only use a very minute amount of a speed boost, otherwise, I really don't think that the gameplay is so slow now that it merits the use of this code.

I actually agree about using just a small dashspeed increase and that is actually what I have been arguing for

Comments in bold

Now, just so there is no confusion, its not that I don't like combos, its that I think they are to easy to perform and so anything that makes them faster seems like a good idea to me.

 

[goodoldganon]

As I said, I'll have to wait and see exactly how fast this 'minor' tweak you want, but I'm always willing to test changes. It's not like these codes are hard to apply and test.

 

[storm92]

johe, I love you (no homo) but dash speed makes combos easier.
Even if hitstun is decreased.

 

[johe]

johe, I love you (no homo) but dash speed makes combos easier.
Even if hitstun is decreased.

Actually, IMO, making them faster would make them harder.

That, and I still feel the game is too slow.

 

[leafgreen386]

Just increasing running speed won't increase the speed of the combos, though. It'll just make the comboer faster. You would need to increase the overall gamespeed if you wanted combos to be faster (and therefore harder). We do have a code for that, although it's glitchy. If it weren't for that, I think almost everyone here would be using it >_>

 

[johe]

Just increasing running speed won't increase the speed of the combos, though. It'll just make the comboer faster. You would need to increase the overall gamespeed if you wanted combos to be faster (and therefore harder). We do have a code for that, although it's glitchy. If it weren't for that, I think almost everyone here would be using it >_>

Wait...

um...

crap, your right. Oh well, I guess I'll just go lower hitstun until a nonglitchy speed increase code is made.

Though I still fell that the game could benifit from a faster running speed.

 

[storm92]

Wait...

um...

crap, your right. Oh well, I guess I'll just go lower hitstun until a nonglitchy speed increase code is made.

Though I still fell that the game could benifit from a faster running speed.

Once we get a speed increase I'm pretty sure everyone will use it, as LG said.
I honestly was considering saying screw it and use it with the bugs, but there were too many.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

What happened to all those other codes, like custom music on any stage/menu and stuff like that? I need those lol

 

[leafgreen386]

What happened to all those other codes, like custom music on any stage/menu and stuff like that? I need those lol

I believe you're looking for this thread.

 

[storm92]

What happened to all those other codes, like custom music on any stage/menu and stuff like that? I need those lol

Those are in the WiiRD thread, this is for Brawl+ (competitive gameplay codes).

 

[Eaode]

I don't think nonglitchy speed increase code is possible.

If you're talking about what I think you are (just universally increasing the game), then it would logically be impossible. SSBB Runs at 60FPS, and by increasing the speed, unless done by something ridiculous like 2x speed, would cause the frames the the game is outputting to not be synced properly, and thus cause the Wii to cut off certain frames and skip other, resulting in choppy gameplay.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

Those are in the WiiRD thread, this is for Brawl+ (competitive gameplay codes).

WiiRD thread? can you link me to that

edit: nvm i got it, didnt see leafgreens post

 

[storm92]

I don't think nonglitchy speed increase code is possible.

If you're talking about what I think you are (just universally increasing the game), then it would logically be impossible. SSBB Runs at 60FPS, and by increasing the speed, unless done by something ridiculous like 2x speed, would cause the frames the the game is outputting to not be synced properly, and thus cause the Wii to cut off certain frames and skip other, resulting in choppy gameplay.

I'm not sure if that's the problem with the code, it doesn't seem that it's choppy. It seems more like certain moves have bugs, such as Ganon's Downb being cancelable in mid-air.

 

[leafgreen386]

I'm not sure if that's the problem with the code, it doesn't seem that it's choppy. It seems more like certain moves have bugs, such as Ganon's Downb being cancelable in mid-air.

Not to mention the teleports.

 

[storm92]

Not to mention the teleports.

Shhhhhhh. :X

 

[Eaode]

Oh Really? Forget my theory then

 

[zxeon]

Wait...

um...

crap, your right. Oh well, I guess I'll just go lower hitstun until a nonglitchy speed increase code is made.

Though I still fell that the game could benifit from a faster running speed.

He doesn't mean the dash speed code is glitchy. There is a game speed code that speeds up the game but is very glitchy. The run speed code works great the only problem is that olimar's pikmin can't keep up. There would have to be a way to speed them up too for this to be used.

 

[zxeon]

I know you can't be expected to read this whole thread, but making an air momentum code is extremely challenging if possible at all. Do not get your hopes up.

You are expected to read the whole thread if you want to sound like you know what you're talking about you need to know the short history of this thread and all the other Brawl+ related threads.

 

[johe]

He doesn't mean the dash speed code is glitchy. There is a game speed code that speeds up the game but is very glitchy. The run speed code works great the only problem is that olimar's pikmin can't keep up. There would have to be a way to speed them up too for this to be used.

I know that, I was saying that I would have to wait for a non-glitchy universal speed increase.

 

[leafgreen386]

You are expected to read the whole thread if you wan't to sound like you know what you're talking about you need to know the short history of this thread and all the other Brawl+ related threads.

I would hardly call nearly 3500 posts "short."

=/

 

[zxeon]

I would hardly call nearly 3500 posts "short."

=/

In terms of the time it started and now. It's only been a few months.

 

[Revven]

I know that, I was saying that I would have to wait for a non-glitchy universal speed increase.

And Igglyboo (the creator of the code) said that there was nothing to fix. The speed increase apparently isn't meant to be used outside of training mode as that's where it originated from. I'm SURE we could ask PW about a universal speed increase if it's desperately needed and once all the codes kupo wants done are done by PW, we could ask about it (sending him the code Igglyboo made) and see what he has to say about it.

For now, Igglyboo isn't going to "fix" what's wrong with it as he said that there are bugs with it that just cannot be fixed. I'd love to dig up what he said but, it was a few weeks ago and... I really don't want to quote him again.

I'm surprised people forgot he even commented on what we said.

 

[zxeon]

^^This is why people need to read the thread.

 

[johe]

And Igglyboo (the creator of the code) said that there was nothing to fix. The speed increase apparently isn't meant to be used outside of training mode as that's where it originated from. I'm SURE we could ask PW about a universal speed increase if it's desperately needed and once all the codes kupo wants done are done by PW, we could ask about it (sending him the code Igglyboo made) and see what he has to say about it.

For now, Igglyboo isn't going to "fix" what's wrong with it as he said that there are bugs with it that just cannot be fixed. I'd love to dig up what he said but, it was a few weeks ago and... I really don't want to quote him again.

I'm surprised people forgot he even commented on what we said.

Crap, I forgot about that

 

[zxeon]

I think we need a curriculum.

 

[Eaode]

Or you could just add it to the FAQ

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Or you could just add it to the FAQ

i don't think its an important enough question to throw into there. but if more people ask i suppose i could.

btw, if you guys have any suggestions of what to put into the FAQ, i'm all ears.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Is it just me or does it feel like this thread is wrapping up rapidly?

 

[leafgreen386]

I dunno. I guess?

Anyway, I made a few custom CSSs. I don't have a camera, so you'll have to settle for the pics I used to figure out the order I wanted them in, where I basically dissected and reorganized the character icons from other CSSs. It should still give you the general idea.

Custom CSS 36 (19 lines)
0668310C 00000040
387E006C 3B600000
3C808068 38840DE0
7CBB20AE 7CA50775
41800020 2C050029
40A10008 38A00028
94A30004 3B7B0001
2C1B0032 4180FFDC
48000028 60000000
04690338 48000068
066900d8 00000008
2c170028 41820168
02680DE0 0022FFFF
06680DE0 00000024
00090C0D 0515011A
0A171012 2206161F
03180713 250B190E
02241408 231B2011
21262729 00000000
mario, luigi, bowser, peach, yoshi, wario, dk, diddy, falcon --
pit, ICs, gaw, rob, kirby, mk, ddd, samus, olimar -- fox,
falco, wolf, ness, lucas, zelda, link, tl, ganon --  pikachu, jiggs, PT,
lucario, marth, ike, snake, sonic, random

Custom CSS 36 zss>mk (19 lines)
0668310C 00000040
387E006C 3B600000
3C808068 38840DE0
7CBB20AE 7CA50775
41800020 2C050029
40A10008 38A00028
94A30004 3B7B0001
2C1B0032 4180FFDC
48000028 60000000
04690338 48000068
066900d8 00000008
2c170028 41820168
02680DE0 0022FFFF
06680DE0 00000024
00090C0D 0515011A
0A171012 22061F03
04180713 250B190E
02241408 231B2011
21262729 00000000
mario, luigi, bowser, peach, yoshi, wario, dk, diddy, falcon --
pit, ICs, gaw, rob, kirby, ddd, samus, zss, olimar -- fox,
falco, wolf, ness, lucas, zelda, link, tl, ganon --  pikachu, jiggs, PT,
lucario, marth, ike, snake, sonic, random

Custom CSS 40 (19 lines)
0668310C 00000040
387E006C 3B600000
3C808068 38840DE0
7CBB20AE 7CA50775
41800020 2C050029
40A10008 38A00028
94A30004 3B7B0001
2C1B0032 4180FFDC
48000028 60000000
04690338 48000068
066900d8 00000008
2c170028 41820168
02680DE0 0022FFFF
06680DE0 00000028
00090C0D 0515011A
0A221710 12112106
161F0304 0713250B
190E0224 14180823
201B1D1E 1C262729
mario, luigi, bowser, peach, yoshi, wario, dk, diddy, falcon, rob
-- pit, ICs, gaw, marth, ike, kirby, mk, ddd, samus, zss -- fox,
falco, wolf, ness, lucas, zelda, link, tl, ganon, olimar --  pikachu,
jiggs, lucario, PT, squirtle, ivysaur, charizard, snake, sonic, random

Custom CSS 40 sheik>mk (20 lines)
0668310C 00000040
387E006C 3B600000
3C808068 38840DE0
7CBB20AE 7CA50775
41800020 2C050029
40A10008 38A00028
94A30004 3B7B0001
2C1B0032 4180FFDC
48000028 60000000
04690338 48000068
066900d8 00000008
2c170028 41820168
02680DE0 0022FFFF
06680DE0 00000028
00090C0D 0515011A
0A181710 12221121
061F0304 0713250B
190E0F02 24140823
201B1D1E 1C262729
046900E8 60000000
mario, luigi, bowser, peach, yoshi, wario, dk, diddy, falcon, olimar
-- pit, ICs, gaw, rob, marth, ike, kirby, ddd, samus, zss -- fox,
falco, wolf, ness, lucas, zelda, sheik, link, tl, ganon --  pikachu,
jiggs, lucario, PT, squirtle, ivysaur, charizard, snake, sonic, random

 

[MuBa]

Is it just me or does it feel like this thread is wrapping up rapidly?

We have a long way to go.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Yea I know we have plenty to go, but it just feels like it's slowing down.

@leafgreen: Is it really necessary to have Zelda and Sheik as separate character slots? They can't be separated(well, I'm sure they CAN be, but what's the point) unlike P.Trainer (where its actually useful).

 

[johe]

Yea I know we have plenty to go, but it just feels like it's slowing down.

No, its just that we had gotten a lot of codes in a short amount of time recently and so now that there aren't so many new codes, people are posting less, or it could be that people are posting less for some other, more insidious reasons.

EDIT: Please don't get rid of MK, he's so fun in a sadistic kind of way.

 

[MookieRah]

Yea I know we have plenty to go, but it just feels like it's slowing down.

I think that's because people are abandoning the dash speed increase code :-P.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

That kinda sucks, I'm a big fan of the dash speed code, especially on x2 for Sonic.

Edit: Wait, I just got that. Touché Mookie, touché.

 

[zxeon]

Yea I know we have plenty to go, but it just feels like it's slowing down.

@leafgreen: Is it really necessary to have Zelda and Sheik as separate character slots? They can't be separated(well, I'm sure they CAN be, but what's the point) unlike P.Trainer (where its actually useful).

It's just been more active than usual lately.