COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[zxeon]

Where's a good breakpoint? Do moves that have like less than six frames of hitlag need to be reduced? What where really after are the big fish right?

 

[Frogles]

HAD = H...alf Air Dodge? lolwut

 

[kupo15]

Kupo, use lagrange's polynomial. lulz.

I did? lol yea it crashed over here also

Hey Kupo, How about putting in a request for HAD? You remember what it was right? There isn't much left so it couldn't hurt to do this one.

Not yet. Triple jump glitch comes first

 

[Revven]

Not yet. Triple jump glitch comes first

I noticed that the triple jump glitch affects more than just Marth, CF, Mario, and Ganondorf. Wolf is also affected with both his up B and forward B. Other than him, I think that's all who it effects but, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more noticeable ones.

Just as long as the fix affects every character anyway, it'll be all good.

 

[kupo15]

I noticed that the triple jump glitch affects more than just Marth, CF, Mario, and Ganondorf. Wolf is also affected with both his up B and forward B. Other than him, I think that's all who it effects but, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more noticeable ones.

Just as long as the fix affects every character anyway, it'll be all good.

really? I didn't know wolf was affected but yea, that glitch needs to go and be in the standard code set

 

[MBlaze]

So are we using the Shield loss, gain and ratio codes and stuff?

 

[Deleted member]

your call, they aren't tested so much yet

 

[plasmatorture]

HAD = H...alf Air Dodge? lolwut

Hybrid Airdodge

Basically, MAD but without the helpless state afterwards so you can up+b, do aerials, keep normal air control, etc.. Only one airdodge per time in the air, though, like normal MAD.
If that makes sense...

To make sure I understand, the Shield Gain affects how quickly it recovers after been hit? Perhaps a value more like .04 or .05 to the game's defautl .07 would be better. Shield loss is shield lost to just holding the button (how fast it decays)? And shield damage is how fast the shield is lost compared to the damage dealt?

 

[leafgreen386]

Pretty sure fox and falco get affected, too. I thought it was a good quarter of the cast that took a hit from it, but I can't remember which ones besides those already listed.

And mario, we might use the regen code. I don't think we should be messing with this stuff too much. I say we try 2.5-2.75 shieldstun with say... 70-80% shield regen? If we mess with shield regen at all. But 50% shield regen would be way too small imo.

 

[MBlaze]

your call, they aren't tested so much yet

I don't really care about them unless they have some kind of affiliation with the Power Shielding.

 

[MBlaze]

Pretty sure fox and falco get affected, too. I thought it was a good quarter of the cast that took a hit from it, but I can't remember which ones besides those already listed.

And mario, we might use the regen code. I don't think we should be messing with this stuff too much. I say we try 2.5-2.75 shieldstun with say... 70-80% shield regen? 50% shield regen would be way too small imo.

I don't even think that's necessary to mess with.

 

[leafgreen386]

Yeah, I just edited my post to reflect that. It doesn't need a large reduction, if it needs one at all.

 

[SketchHurricane]

edit: hold on lemme calculate some stuff

 

[shanus]

Pretty sure fox and falco get affected, too. I thought it was a good quarter of the cast that took a hit from it, but I can't remember which ones besides those already listed.

And mario, we might use the regen code. I don't think we should be messing with this stuff too much. I say we try 2.5-2.75 shieldstun with say... 70-80% shield regen? 50% shield regen would be way too small imo.

Yeah we just need the proper hex values for the 2.5 and 2.25. 2.75 is definitely too high. I have a feeling 2.5 will be perfect.

 

[kupo15]

the regain shield stuff refers to how quickly it regains? Is this right?

 

[Deleted member]

yes. the shield damage is actually interesting

 

[Almas]

I think shield damage is the one we DON'T want to mess with. It boosts attacks such as Pound and Shieldbreaker too much.

The term Shield PRESSURE is what many people refer to. Increasing the damage an attack does to shield is fairly meaningless - either you do break someone's shield with 1-2 attacks, or you don't. Affecting the regen rates means that over time you can work on someone, harming them even if you never land a hit. It's more strategic and promotes a consistent offense rather than just trying to get combos.

 

[plasmatorture]

Personally I think maybe just holding the shield should make it decay/whatever slightly faster (.30 instead of .28? arbitrarily chosen), and regen should be at around 70% so (.5 instead of .7). Just as a basis, I definitly have been annoyed several times at how close I come to breaking a shield only for them to get away and a second or two later have full shield again.

 

[kupo15]

here is a fixed old version of the shield stun if you want this instead

Shield stun spunit262

C28753EC 00000007
FC20F890 4800000D
XXXXXXXX YYYYYYYY
839F007C A39C0006
2C1C001A 41820014
7F8802A6 C03C0000
C05C0004 FC2117FA
FC00081E 00000000
C277F78C 00000003
2C1C001D 41820008
B39E0006 2C1CFFFF
60000000 00000000

 

[Almas]

I don't think the penalty for holding a shield should be increased. It'd actually be quite interesting to have a game where holding your shield doesn't decay it at all, but it also regens incredibly slowly (1/10th or less of its current value). I obviously don't think that's the best move though. I just think a significant reduction in regen rate.

 

[Revven]

really? I didn't know wolf was affected but yea, that glitch needs to go and be in the standard code set

Yes, Wolf is quite affected. Although not nearly as bad as the four I listed, it is quite noticeable when you second Wolf like I do and want to just ledge hop onto the stage. Especially considering you don't have many ledge hop options to negate the effects of the glitch.

Come to think of it, I think Squirtle is also affected, but, he has about the same amount of lag as Wolf does... it's small but, noticeable. We need a list of these... I'd gladly test each character but, I don't have the time. Can someone else test each character so we have an idea on who's affected noticeably and who isn't?

Pretty sure fox and falco get affected, too. I thought it was a good quarter of the cast that took a hit from it, but I can't remember which ones besides those already listed.

I was told by someone at a tournament I went to that it affects the entire cast but, some are more affected than others and everyone else's isn't affected as badly/hardly noticeable. I don't know how true that is though. The same person even said that it's not a glitch and that it's intentional (which I find VERY hard to believe...)

But, yeah, it really needs to go as its detrimental to the edge game for someone on the edge. Whenever I play vanilla Brawl, I try to avoid this as BEST I can with CF, by either reverse Up Bing onto the stage and take the normal special lag or by Nairing from a ledge hop. Though, it's inevitable for a character like Ganondorf, who can't even ledge hop (well, I mean ledge hop in general, he has to AD towards the stage to ledge hop onto it) it sucks.

 

[shanus]

Kupo, any way we can take the codeset we were just using before and get it to at least a working 2.5 shieldstun? I know the 2.25 crashes, I don't know about the 2.5 but I'd assume so from what people said.

 

[kupo15]

Yes, Wolf is quite affected. Although not nearly as bad as the four I listed, it is quite noticeable when you second Wolf like I do and want to just ledge hop onto the stage. Especially considering you don't have many ledge hop options to negate the effects of the glitch.

Come to think of it, I think Squirtle is also affected, but, he has about the same amount of lag as Wolf does... it's small but, noticeable. We need a list of these... I'd gladly test each character but, I don't have the time. Can someone else test each character so we have an idea on who's affected noticeably and who isn't?



I was told by someone at a tournament I went to that it affects the entire cast but, some are more affected than others and everyone else's isn't affected as badly/hardly noticeable. I don't know how true that is though. The same person even said that it's not a glitch and that it's intentional (which I find VERY hard to believe...)

But, yeah, it really needs to go as its detrimental to the edge game for someone on the edge. Whenever I play vanilla Brawl, I try to avoid this as BEST I can with CF, by either reverse Up Bing onto the stage and take the normal special lag or by Nairing from a ledge hop. Though, it's inevitable for a character like Ganondorf, who can't even ledge hop (well, I mean ledge hop in general, he has to AD towards the stage to ledge hop onto it) it sucks.

Not only that, but if you don't relieve it yourself, it can be forced out of you

Kupo, any way we can take the codeset we were just using before and get it to at least a working 2.5 shieldstun? I know the 2.25 crashes, I don't know about the 2.5 but I'd assume so from what people said.

Give the code I posted above a try. Should be the same format as before

 

[shanus]

Not only that, but if you don't relieve it yourself, it can be forced out of you


Give the code I posted above a try. Should be the same format as before

Yar you know me and my stupid computer. On a mac and the text2gct converter never gives me fully functioning codes

 

[MBlaze]

Agreed with the people who don't wanna do anymore with the Shields other than Power Shielding and Shield Stun.

 

[leafgreen386]

@plasmatorture: Currently, the shield loss rate is about the same as melee. It's fine. There's one code that wasn't posted, which is shield max.

Shield Max [spunit262]
04B88440 XXXXXXXX
Default 42480000 (50)

50 divided by .28 is 178.5 (dunno if this rounds up or down, although it's probably down), which is about the same (if not the exact same) as the number of frames that melee's shield lasts for. This comes out to the shield lasting for 2.967 seconds (assuming it rounds down).

Now, I'm not actually sure if the shield regen rate is the problem, either. If it's recovering .007 each frame, that means it would take 714 frames to fully recover a shield that was put within an inch of its life. I don't remember the number of frames this took in melee quite so well, but the number does sound familiar. This means it would take 11.9 seconds to fully recover a shield. An attack that does 30 points of damage (so 21 points of shield damage) would take 300 frames to recover fully, or 5 seconds.

Now, if we were to change the regen rate to be .05 instead of .07, then it would take 1000 frames to fully recover a shield, or 16.67 seconds. It would take 420 frames to recover from an attack that does 30 damage (21 points of shield damage), which is 7 seconds.

I dunno. Either sound fine to me. We'll just have to test to see which one does better with the shieldstun we eventually end up choosing.

edit: lol simu-post. I hit the post reply button and already there's a post under me.

 

[shanus]

Agreed with the people who don't wanna do anymore with the Shields other than Power Shielding and Shield Stun.

Me too. Nerfing shields with shieldstun is all we need I think.

 

[Starscream]

Let's try not to screw around with the duration of the shield especially since we don't have light shielding anymore.

And I've never encountered a glitch with Shield Stun Beta 5, should I change it anyways?

 

[SGX]

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned it, but Dash Dancing still doesn't feel correct. The window still isn't nearly as big as melees. However if I use the following code it feels so much better. I don't think it's broken either, because unless you time your DD, you don't get full momentum in the opposite direction.

Run Cancel - Stop Turn Cancel - Shield End Cancel (12 Lines) (Muba)
4A000000 8077F780
D2000000 0000000A
2C030000 41820010
2C1C0005 40820008
3B800000 60000000
2C030000 41820010
2C1C0008 40820008
3B800000 60000000
2C030000 41820010
2C1C001C 40820008
3B800000 60000000
939E0038 00000000

 

[poklin]

Ok lame i could never get jiang's code list to work, if anyone has it and could send it over aim or msn that would be awesome.

 

[Team Giza]

Shieldgrowth at 0.06 is NICE

 

[wazgood]

Would a code that lets you jab cancel multi jabs be extremely broken?

any responses?

 

[SGX]

I'm really not sure why it would be necessary or desirable to continue nerfing shields after all of the buffs we've given to offense. Shield Stun is plenty.

 

[Shell]

@SGX: I agree that the window for DD could be a little larger. I also enjoy the use of MuBa's code. As SketchHurricane pointed out, though, you can achieve the same results with PW's crouch cancel code, it's just more involved.

@Team Giza: So .06 shield growth just makes the shield recharge a little slower, right? Could you elaborate a little more on specifically 0.06's effect on the game?

@wazgood: I don't think it would be broken. Most multihit jabs like fox's or kirby's do so little damage per hit that each hit doesn't leave too much stun. I think that even if you could cancel the multi-hit jab, you wouldn't be able to follow it up with much anyways. Just a guess.

 

[zxeon]

Not yet. Triple jump glitch comes first

Finn7 claims MAD fixes the tripple jump glitch.

You just said tripple jump glitch first. Does that mean that HAD is next and can I hold you to that?

 

[SGX]

Shell: It just seems like it would make much more sense to use Muba's code. On top of making DDing work better, it takes up less than half the amount of lines. It seems like a lot of trouble to cancel your dash with a crouch before changing directions.

 

[Osi]

Hiya guys,

Made another combo video hehe.

Without Hope:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU9iyNzvjgY


Hope you guys enjoy it.

Codes used:
ALC
Hitstun 9-10%
Fall speed 1.2-1.25
Ledge codes
PT stamina
No trip
No replay limit
Frozen stages

Man I have been messing around with yoshi a bit now too, he is a beast on brawl+ hehe.

 

[zxeon]

I'm really not sure why it would be necessary or desirable to continue nerfing shields after all of the buffs we've given to offense. Shield Stun is plenty.

I also think we should leave those codes other than shield stun for the time being and save them for when we might need them. Because just having them doesn't mean we should use them.

Atleast if you do use them make a convincing video to show what you think would benefit the project.

 

[kupo15]

I think the shield growth rate is a problem. I'll be experimenting with that

Finn7 claims MAD fixes the tripple jump glitch.

You just said tripple jump glitch first. Does that mean that HAD is next and can I hold you to that?

No it will still not be next. We don't want to fix it through another code if it even does because I'm skeptical if what Finns says is actually true. I heard that its still there. Not only that but there are people would don't want this AD change at all. The next code will be the triple jump glitch fix by itself and that is what you can hold me to.


Question about the hitlag code to make sure I got it correct.

100% hitlag is default in VB

100- No code
75- Mult 3 div 4
50-Mult 1 div 2
25 Mult 1 div 4
0- N/A

Would this be correct if I wanted 3/4th hitlag? And is this correct if I want 66%?

66- Mult 2 div 3

 

[GPDP]

It doesn't even fix it, though. MAD just allows you to waveland onto the stage so that you can circumvent it, or something like that.