COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[MookieRah]

I saw Almas's post and I'm going to try some of his settings. From what he says on things like upwards gravity, it just makes the jumps move up faster and the like, and that sounds good to me. Also, I'm going to use the other stuff on his settings cause it gives me a good jump off point.

I'm going to work on making shield stun ideal. I feel like I had the right values for the old code, but apparently people didn't like the knockback on the shield. I'm going to tweak things so that you can do all the awesome melee stuff like jabs > grabs being really good but not guaranteed, or jab > aerial working well too.

 

[shanus]

So many changes going on, ill just wait till some gct is posted >.>

 

[kupo15]

I saw Almas's post and I'm going to try some of his settings. From what he says on things like upwards gravity, it just makes the jumps move up faster and the like, and that sounds good to me. Also, I'm going to use the other stuff on his settings cause it gives me a good jump off point.

I'm going to work on making shield stun ideal. I feel like I had the right values for the old code, but apparently people didn't like the knockback on the shield. I'm going to tweak things so that you can do all the awesome melee stuff like jabs > grabs being really good but not guaranteed, or jab > aerial working well too.

Good luck. Im working on hitlag and shield stun also. We shall compare results

 

[MuBa]

I'll be working on Med School to become a good doctor for you nerds.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

From what I was told, the upward gravity modifier applies gravity to upward motion, effectively gimping jumps and whatnot, since it's applying gravity on the way up. So a number lower than 1 is probably better since less upward gravity counteracts the slight gimping of the downward gravity. I could be wrong though.

I've actually got the upward gravity modifier on 0.95 and the downward gravity on 1.3 and it seems to work great.

 

[leafgreen386]

Put 0011 in X, 0004 in Y, and 0003 in Z.

No. It would be 000B in hex for the X value, since B is 11.

 

[Osi]

Thanks for posting that almas, I'm going to use a lot of it in my code set for this week!

 

[GPDP]

Oh, d'oh. I forgot Brawl speaks in hex.

 

[kupo15]

I realized something while testing the shield stun. We should be testing the shield stun when the move is completely stale. 2.6 is good for when its fresh but not when its stale at 25% decay

 

[shanus]

I realized something while testing the shield stun. We should be testing the shield stun when the move is completely stale. 2.6 is good for when its fresh but not when its stale at 25% decay

Why? How often do you let yourself get completely stale? I think fresh or at least a little stale is the proper judge.

 

[kupo15]

Why? How often do you let yourself get completely stale? I think fresh is the proper judge.

Im pretty sure the shield stun worked on multi hit moves the way it should work for stale moves in melee. They have to at least let all hitboxes connect

 

[shanus]

Im pretty sure the shield stun worked on multi hit moves the way it should work for stale moves in melee. They have to at least let all hitboxes connect

But then won't that be skewing it so that a user who doesnt have multihits such as a drill suffers more than a character who does have them? I think something like a jab hitting a shield shouldnt cause more pushback because of a higher value put down for a drill.


I personally think we should aim for jab -> grabs to still work if timed and spaced properly. But we make it so its hard so that there is stilla window for a shieldgrab if it isnt perfect.

 

[Starscream]

no. Its beta 5 without any glitches and everything works

Excellent, that's what I've been using since all these new confusing codes came out. If there aren't any glitches with it then what's the point of the new one? Saving 2 lines of code? Do they work exactly the same otherwise?

I realized something while testing the shield stun. We should be testing the shield stun when the move is completely stale. 2.6 is good for when its fresh but not when its stale at 25% decay

Well I'm sure a lot of people are using the no stale moves at all. I'm still hoping that someone will make a stale damage only code.

 

[kupo15]

It works great! I highly recommend shield stun beta 7 so you can work with hex. It seems to affect the weak hits equally with the strong hits so I doubt any additional shield stun is really necessary.

Do you think we should completely change the stale move system or just make it really small like 64 since this IS the same system?

Shield stun is dependent off of the stale move system. You can't use the same shield stun with a different decay system. They are linked together and must move as one. So would the best thing to do be test shield stun without the decay code then we can move it proportionally?

 

[Dark Sonic]

I personally think we should aim for jab -> grabs to still work if timed and spaced properly. But we make it so its hard so that there is stilla window for a shieldgrab if it isnt perfect.

Jab->grab was never a combo in melee. It could always be shield grabbed. Having that kind of shieldstun would be completely ridiculous. The reason that Jab->grab seemed to work in melee was because people were afraid to attempt shieldgrabs all the time, because there were other moves that could beat it out.

For example, a Fox who jabbed your shield could shine, jab again, uptilt, upsmash, or run away before your shieldgrab actually connects (but after your shield drops to attempt said grab), so it wasn't always safe to try to grab someone after a jab. However, this means that sometimes people will just sit in their shield waiting for one of these actions, so you can grab them as a mindgame as punishment for just sitting in their shield.

Moral of the story, Jab->grab is not supposed to be a combo on block, it is a simple mindgame that results from Jab->*insert really fast option here* being faster than their shieldgrab and forming a rock,paper, scissors relationship.

 

[Starscream]

It works great! I highly recommend shield stun beta 7 so you can work with hex. It seems to affect the weak hits equally with the strong hits so I doubt any additional shield stun is really necessary.

You mean beta 5? Man I'm gettin confused.

Do you think we should completely change the stale move system or just make it really small like 64 since this IS the same system?

If it weren't for ******** Utilt spam then I'd have no problem using a toned down version of Brawl stale move system. No stale moves or stale damage only minimizes this the most.

 

[kupo15]

If it weren't for ******** Utilt spam then I'd have no problem using a toned down version of Brawl stale move system. No stale moves or stale damage only minimizes this the most.

Utilt spams arent so bad anymore

Btw, Im at shield stun mult 5 with the default decay system D:

And sorry. Its version 1 in the OP

 

[Starscream]

Utilt spams arent so bad anymore

It's still worse than it needs to be with even 1/2 stale moves. I just think that minimizing such a silly technique as much as possible would be a good thing. But if no one makes it then I'm cool with trying other stale move settings. Has anyone tried 1/3 stale moves?

 

[kupo15]

It's still worse than it needs to be with even 1/2 stale moves. I just think that minimizing such a silly technique as much as possible would be a good thing. But if no one makes it then I'm cool with trying other stale move settings. Has anyone tried 1/3 stale moves?

I am at 1/4 and it could probably go lower.

And good, I finally capped off at shield stun 5. Now I need to lower it so that they can get out of the shield immeditatly following the last stale hitbox

 

[Starscream]

I am at 1/4 and it could probably go lower.

And good, I finally capped off at shield stun 5. Now I need to lower it so that they can get out of the shield immeditatly following the last stale hitbox

What's the code for 1/4? I wouldn't mind testing that.

Also which shieldstun code are you using? I know I probably sound like a broken record but I just want 100% clarification. I don't want to switch to the newest one, Beta 7.2 if I really don't have to seeing how it is more mathematically involved. Me and math don't go well together.

 

[kupo15]

this one
Should be the first listed in the OP

Shield stun
C28753EC 00000007
FC20F890 4800000D
XXXXXXXX YYYYYYYY
839F007C A39C0006
2C1C001A 41820014
7F8802A6 C03C0000
C05C0004 FC2117FA
FC00081E 00000000
C277F78C 00000003
2C1C001D 41820008
B39E0006 2C1CFFFF
60000000 00000000

1/4 decay 
06FC0988 00000028
3D4CCCCD 3CCCCCCD
3CB851EC 3CA3D70A
3C8F5C29 3C75C28F
3C4CCCCD 3C23D70A
3BF5C28F 3BA3D70A

So I found that a fully stale pits Nair can't shield lock at 4.16 but can at 4.17 shield stun value at brawls default stale moves value

 

[.MaRiO]

Here is a Video of the Shield Glitch that I keep getting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEoFClVGVvY&feature=channel_page
People couldn't seem to replicate it so I just recorded it. It happens in every single one of our matches at least one time.
I am not sure which version of the shield code this is but this is the code we are using cant remember where I got it from.
C28753EC 00000005
83810034 809F007C
A0840006 2C04001A
41820018 1F9C0005
38800002 7F9C23D6
3B9C0003 00000000
C277F78C 00000003
2C1C001D 41820008
B39E0006 2C1CFFFF
60000000 00000000

I am gonna try these new codes to see if it still happens, if I can every figure out what the hell is going on with these new codes. If someone can recommend a value for the new shield stun that would be great. I have no idea what to put in the XXXX and the YYYY lol

 

[kupo15]

Here is a Video of the Shield Glitch that I keep getting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEoFClVGVvY&feature=channel_page
People couldn't seem to replicate it so I just recorded it. It happens in every single one of our matches at least one time.
I am not sure which version of the shield code this is but this is the code we are using cant remember where I got it from.
C28753EC 00000005
83810034 809F007C
A0840006 2C04001A
41820018 1F9C0005
38800002 7F9C23D6
3B9C0003 00000000
C277F78C 00000003
2C1C001D 41820008
B39E0006 2C1CFFFF
60000000 00000000

I am gonna try these new codes to see if it still happens, if I can every figure out what the hell is going on with these new codes. If someone can recommend a value for the new shield stun that would be great. I have no idea what to put in the XXXX and the YYYY lol

You are using an outdated code. Use this one:

C28753EC 00000007
FC20F890 4800000D
XXXXXXXX YYYYYYYY
839F007C A39C0006
2C1C001A 41820014
7F8802A6 C03C0000
C05C0004 FC2117FA
FC00081E 00000000
C277F78C 00000003
2C1C001D 41820008
B39E0006 2C1CFFFF
60000000 00000000

 

[.MaRiO]

Alright but I dont know what to put in the X and Y values
Can you just tell me what your using for those values?

 

[kupo15]

RESULTS OF MY FINDINGS

At brawls default stale system

Pits stale Nair did not shield lock at 4.16
Pits stale Nair shield locked at 4.17

Translation to the different decay code values:

1 (brawls default) Float 4.17
3/4-Float 3.1275
1/2- Float 2.085
1/4 -Float 1.0425
0 (No decay) Float N/A

Put 0's in for Y's

Basically to find the proportionate float value to a non standard decay system, multiply the decimal form or your decay system by 4.17

Furthermore, I found a hitlag code that I like.

60% hitlag reduction except on 1 frame

C2771EC0 00000004
39C0000A 2C040002
4180000C 1C840006
7C8473D6 90830010
60000000 00000000

Mult-6
Div-A
Break-2

FINALLY

http://rapidshare.com/files/182325858/Brawl_.txt.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/182325859/RSBE01.gct.html

I hope this is good >_<

 

[GPDP]

So you put 4.17 hex on the multiplier for the shieldstun. What did you put on the additive?

 

[kupo15]

So you put 4.17 hex on the multiplier for the shieldstun. What did you put on the additive?

4.17 is the mult without any decay codes. I put nothing for the additive because I dont think its necessary. Somehow that scale I put looks like the wrong order or something even though its playing out pretty nice. I have no idea how to easily label the decay codes

 

[GPDP]

Alright, I'll try this out at 50% decay with the appropriate shieldstun multiplier.

 

[Starscream]

4.17 is the mult without any decay codes. I put nothing for the additive because I dont think its necessary. Somehow that scale I put looks like the wrong order or something even though its playing out pretty nice. I have no idea how to easily label the decay codes

I think 25% and 75% need to be switched around. Just the percent, not the value you listed. It might be easier if you used a fraction instead of percentage.

Your value for 1/4 (what you have listed as 75% but should be 25% if going in order of highest staling to lowest) seems really low. I'll test it but it seems to low to be a good number.

 

[kupo15]

I think 25% and 75% need to be switched around. Just the percent, not the value you listed. It might be easier if you used a fraction instead of percentage.

Your value for 1/4 (what you have listed as 75% but should be 25% if going in order of highest staling to lowest) seems really low. I'll test it but it seems to low to be a good number.

Yea this doesnt make any sense. Unless my decay code is incorrect which I don't believe so, my math is telling me I should use 1.0425 when 3.1275 seems to work fine. I'll try the no decay code tomorrow and see how things look

 

[GPDP]

I don't think shieldstun is directly proportional to decay in the way you're thinking of, kupo. I doubt attacks decay so little under custom decay setups that they warrant such a drastic decrease in shieldstun.

 

[MaxThunder]

What do you mean by the SD Card thingy not working? You mean the reader? Did you try a different computer? It could also be that the SD Card isn't working.

But, this doesn't belong in this thread. >_>;

...yes i meant the reader... i fail at speaking sometimes... and we tried 3 different sd cards... and i diddent know where to ask so i just took the first brawl+ thread i found...

 

[Starscream]

...yes i meant the reader... i fail at speaking sometimes... and we tried 3 different sd cards... and i diddent know where to ask so i just took the first brawl+ thread i found...

No problem, try this thread.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199810

You should find more help there. This thread for discussion of the codes and future codes pertaining to Brawl+.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Yea this doesnt make any sense. Unless my decay code is incorrect which I don't believe so, my math is telling me I should use 1.0425 when 3.1275 seems to work fine. I'll try the no decay code tomorrow and see how things look

Kupo, I think the problem is that by your values, you are considering a 0 decay system to need a stun of change of 0. Your ranging the values based on 4.17 going all they way to 0 at the other extreme. What you really want to do is find out what stun value is needed at 0 decay. In other words, when does a fresh Pit Nair lock a shield?

default decay = 4.17 stun
-= value range =-
0 decay = some stun number

You then interpolate the values on that stun scale from 4.17 @ max decay, to ??? @ 0 decay. This is of course considering your idea of them being proportional is sound in the first place. But once you find that stun number for a fresh move, your values in between will be higher as expected.

 

[Alopex]

Zomg I just had to read through about 20 pages... my head and eyes almost exploded.

Anyway, so, fixed version of Shield Stun beta 5. Excellent! I love that code.

Kupo, does this mean the additive value is now being properly used by the code?

And for the mathematically-challenged, is there any benefit to using the beta 7.2 over the fixed beta 5?

 

[.MaRiO]

Here are some Friendlies between me and my friend to Show off some Brawl+

.MaRiO vs DjSaturn 1
.MaRiO vs DjSaturn 2
.MaRiO vs DjSaturn 3
.MaRiO vs DjSaturn 4
.MaRiO vs DjSaturn 5
Number 4 my favorite loool

Codes Used:
HitStun 5%
Melee Airdodge
Auto L Cancel
Dash Dancing
Downwards Grav 1.25
Shield Stun 2.25%
Buffer 1 Frame
Stage Freeze
No Tripping
Hitlag Division

I Noticed people using 10% hitstun I think 5% is enough
I have tried both Melee airdodge and brawl airdodge and I just had to keep MAD even with all the code space it takes away. I hope PW fixes this code up and makes it shorter so I can add some more codes in my set, But MAD is DEFINITELY staying in my set.
To me right now its not even a contest between Brawl and Brawl+
Brawl+ > Melee right now lol

 

[zxeon]

Here are some Friendlies between me and my friend to Show off some Brawl+

.MaRiO vs DjSaturn 1
.MaRiO vs DjSaturn 2
.MaRiO vs DjSaturn 3
.MaRiO vs DjSaturn 4
.MaRiO vs DjSaturn 5

Codes Used:
HitStun 5%
Melee Airdodge
Auto L Cancel
Dash Dancing
Downwards Grav 1.25
Shield Stun 2.25%
Buffer 1 Frame
Stage Freeze
No Tripping
Hitlag Division

Notice people using 10% hitstun I think 5% is enough
I have tried both Melee airdodge and brawl airdodge and I just had to keep MAD even with all the code space it takes away. I hope PW fixes this code up and makes it shorter so I can add some more stuff in there, But MAD is DEFINITELY staying in my set.
To me right now its not even a contest between Brawl and Brawl+
Brawl+ > Melee

...What was that?

 

[.MaRiO]

What you mean what was that? lol
There vids of matches
???

 

[Starscream]

Yeah I'm kind of confused by what he meant too. I mean it's a little different than most Brawl+ matches due to low hitstun and MAD but it's still pretty obvious what it was.

 

[.MaRiO]

lol sorry was in a rush when I was typing that up.
I was at my friends house and I had to leave plus I dont really use forums much lol.

I really like this codeset tho. I tried both with BAD and MAD, and MAD definitely opened up alot more options offensively. And since they are so vulnerable in the air already with MAD airdodge there is really no reason to have the hitstun that high. Me and my friend were playing at 10% hitstun before and I mean the combos were just unfair lol

Those videos were some of the first we played and we are comboing even better now after playing all day. I can upload some more videos if you guys want.
Just trying to make my case for some MAD air dodging after playing with both, MAD is just soooo much better
But do you guys know if they are still working on trying to get the HAD airdodge?

Me and my friend been playing a while now, and as of right now we are liking brawl+ alot more than even melee. As you can see it is pretty high paced and DI is very important if you dont want to get combo'd to death lol. I never liked melees edge and ledge game and I think brawl is a nice improvement thats whyI took off the no auto sweetspot codes.
Up to this point I was not feeling Brawl+ that much, but with this set of codes it realllly does speed up the game alot. I love the Auto L Cancel I think it removed some overall unnecessary tech skill in melee and overall makes the game more accessible to all players without all the crazy button pressing. But with keeping wavedash there is still definitely some tech skill involved along with the dash dancing and dash canceling.

Even if I changed nothing from this point for me Brawl+ already surpassed melee in terms of gameplay. It might not get as much tournament play(which I hope it does), but all things considered I think B+ beats it out.. Just my opinion of course lol