COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Almas]

version '7' caused the glitch.

 

[.MaRiO]

before I start messing with my shields
Can someone tell me the difference between shield lose and shield damage ratio? I think I can figure out what the rest mean, just wasnt so sure about this

 

[Almas]

Shield Reset is what it starts at, and what it goes to when your shield breaks..
Shield Gain is how much it regenerates per frame
Shield Loss is how fast it degenerates while it is up
Shield Damage Ratio is how much shield is lost when it is hit by an attack (as a ratio of the damage the attack would deal)

 

[shanus]

No. HAD allows infinite brawl ADes and 1 MAD depending on how you input it

Ill be willing to give it a try mookie but doesn't other fighters have some sort of decay involved as well? I know MvC2 (I think) the combo deals less damage if you do the same infinite combo but I don't know how that game works

didn't melee's decay system only affect damage and not knockback? Thats what I was referring to earlier.

 

[Deleted member]

I always thought it started at max, not at reset

 

[MookieRah]

however, when zelda kills you with her lightning kicks at 70% 3 times you might want to think otherwise.

Considering that I never worried about low percent kills in Melee with Marth tips, I don't think you will ever see me thinking otherwise. Also, people seem to forget that people can be gimped in Brawl+ now considering hitstun and fallspeed changes. So yeah, a death via Zelda kick at 70% isn't as bad as you are making it out to be. My best advice for that is to be extra careful at 70%, and to also DI better.

Sheild subject:
Outside of talking about shield stun, I don't think it's worth tampering with shields any. They are good as is. We can test it to see how it goes with undecayed moves or whatever, but I'm pretty sure it should still be ok without any code changes. At the most we just lower the damage a shield takes by a lil to compensate and it would be the only fix that would be needed.

 

[shanus]

Also, does anyone else think the current value for Shieldstun in the current gct (dont remember what page it was posted on, i think it was 4.16 or 4.17) is too high still? I personally think shieldgrabs are still too difficult to pull off in that 95% of the time they don't work anymore (on CPUs, at least).

 

[Deleted member]

so is anyone actually using the SH and FF height code?

 

[MookieRah]

If you are referring to Almas's post, that was on page 178. I haven't been able to test it yet, I'm about to in a lil bit though.

so is anyone actually using the SH and FF height code?

I am about to. I'm actually using a lil bit of upward grav, a lil bit of downward grav, a lil deduction in shorthop height, and a small increase in fast fall speed. I think that way it doesn't hurt things as much cause lots of little changes will help things from changing too drastically than a few somewhat large changes. I'll see how it goes and report back.

 

[kupo15]

Also, does anyone else think the current value for Shieldstun in the current gct (dont remember what page it was posted on, i think it was 4.16 or 4.17) is too high still? I personally think shieldgrabs are still too difficult to pull off in that 95% of the time they don't work anymore (on CPUs, at least).

why are you using 4.17? That was without the decay codes.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm on page 70 now (put the posts per page on max )

 

[MBlaze]

What's been happening? I've been using 2.5 shield stun and half everything +1 for hit lag and it's pretty good. Idk what's next for now though.

 

[shanus]

RESULTS OF MY FINDINGS

At brawls default stale system

Pits stale Nair did not shield lock at 4.16
Pits stale Nair shield locked at 4.17

Translation to the different decay code values:

1 (brawls default) Float 4.17
3/4-Float 3.1275
1/2- Float 2.085
1/4 -Float 1.0425
0 (No decay) Float N/A

Put 0's in for Y's

Basically to find the proportionate float value to a non standard decay system, multiply the decimal form or your decay system by 4.17

Furthermore, I found a hitlag code that I like.

60% hitlag reduction except on 1 frame

C2771EC0 00000004
39C0000A 2C040002
4180000C 1C840006
7C8473D6 90830010
60000000 00000000

Mult-6
Div-A
Break-2

FINALLY

http://rapidshare.com/files/182325858/Brawl_.txt.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/182325859/RSBE01.gct.html

I hope this is good >_<

Mookierah, I was referring to the code in this post. My gct converter on my mac doesn't work right so this is what I was testing with shieldstun values. I currently think its definitely too high.

 

[kupo15]

the gct is not 4.17

 

[shanus]

why are you using 4.17? That was without the decay codes.

I was using whichever gct you posted from last night at like 1AM. I'm not sure of the value, but I played for a good hour or two this morning and it definitely wasn't feeling perfect yet. Sorry to be nitpicky, just trying to optimize :D

 

[Alopex]

So the hex converter on the OP is down and I can't seem to find another site to do those conversions. Anyone have another site I can use? Wanna do some shield stun testing with the fixed beta 5 code.

 

[MBlaze]

Scratch what I last said, half everything +1 hitlag is a bit boring for me. I found 50% a bit much but more fun. Think 35 or 40% will do it?

 

[shanus]

the gct is not 4.17

Ah ok, well whatever value is in the gct (your text says 3.1275) it needs to be toned down. Sorry I just read the post and misinterpretted it. Did you play and it felt alright to you? I just did dash attacks with a lot of characters and fairs into shields and found that most of the time the stun was way too long to get any of them with a grab. Even on slow characters like ganondorf or ike. The stun is just insane at times.


EDIT: simul posts make me look dumb. Just trying to optimize this to get the right feeling for it all. I want shield grab to be sort of viable in some situations.

 

[.MaRiO]

Shield Reset is what it starts at, and what it goes to when your shield breaks..
Shield Gain is how much it regenerates per frame
Shield Loss is how fast it degenerates while it is up
Shield Damage Ratio is how much shield is lost when it is hit by an attack (as a ratio of the damage the attack would deal)

I thought shield max is what it starts at
if not then what does shield max do.

@mookie there is definately nothing wrong with how the current shield system is, But It is possible that we can make it better. I always think there is room for improvement on all of the mechanics, not to say there is anything wrong with them I just think they could be better is all. And with the Codes only taking up one line space I think it is worth toying with for a bit to see if I can get it better. I mean in my whole time playing brawl I dont think I ever seen one Shield Break even when im overally using my shield shield and just spamming it like crazy. With the current regen of the shield it never breaks and I think we can change it just a little.

 

[kupo15]

Ah ok, well whatever value is in the gct (your text says 3.1275) it needs to be toned down. Sorry I just read the post and misinterpretted it. Did you play and it felt right. I just did dash attacks with a lot of characters and fairs into shields and found that most of the time the stun was way too long to get any of them. Even on slow characters like ganondorf or ike.

Not a human since then. It was something put out to test but it didn't seem that much from the limited shield hits against stupid cpus. Some moves that deal the most shield stun need enough stun to almost neutralize the ending lag. Things like ganon's fsmash or Dair are meant to push people away and reset the momentum instead of setting up for a shield grab.

 

[shanus]

Not a human since then. It was something put out to test but it didn't seem that much from the limited shield hits against stupid cpus. Some moves that deal the most shield stun need enough stun to almost neutralize the ending lag. Things like ganon's fsmash or Dair are meant to push people away and reset the momentum instead of setting up for a shield grab.

Those attacks I was fine with and was perfectly logical. Its things like a characters runs right into me with a laggy attack on the ground or with a medium strength tilt, and I just sit there for hours waiting to retaliate. But I just found in many situations when I played, certain moves which arent necessarily that strong were still too difficult to shieldgrab out of. Granted I was playing with two controllers testing this, which certainly made it difficult (and then I played against CPUs for a while), but it just seemed to needed to be shaved down by only a few frames of stun, maybe 3-5 and it would be near ideal.

 

[kupo15]

Im not convinced that there should be any value in the add slot, only the multiplier for the moment

 

[Almas]

Shield Max might be what you start with. More importantly, I believe it references how high your shield can regenerate overall.

EDIT: I disagree completely Kupo. The idea of shieldstun for me is being able to do things like jab-grab or aerial-grab (neither with guaranteed success). Ramping up the multiplier means that things like Warlock Punch will leave someone in a shield for over a second after the attack ends.

 

[Deleted member]

jabs, tilts etc should in general not give enough stun to be unable to shieldgrab back.
aslo I noticed that when someone is thrown up he is in hitstun until he is almost on the ground already and I'm on 1.3 fall and 9% hitstun, which is too high for that fallspeed, and I am not going to lower the fallspeed since it feels floaty for everything under 1.25. just throwing it out here.

 

[shanus]

Im not convinced that there should be any value in the add slot, only the multiplier for the moment

Yeah I'm saying just reduce the multiplier to shave off a few frames. Not add a global subtraction modifier

 

[poklin]

Idk if this has been asked before but is it possible to slightly increase the time you have to DD?

 

[Deleted member]

why? it's a pretty big window, you're not going to DD over eldin bridge anyway

 

[GPDP]

I think by catering to the decay system regarding the amount of shieldstun, we may be severly nerfing shields more than we should. The current logic is to make shieldstun just high enough to make sure a fully stale multihit move will lock the shield, but doing so makes everything else lock the shield for a ridiculous amount of time.

IMO, I say we rid the decay system of knockback decay altogether, and just leave damage decay intact so that laser spamming and such isn't OPed. It might make combos and setups a bit less dynamic, but it'll save us the trouble of trying to compensate for decayed shieldstun.

 

[shanus]

Also, what are peoples thoughts again on the homebrew app eventually to check and install the latest "official gct". A Brawl+ launcher so to say, checks the latest release, updates automatically onto your SD, then launches geckoos?

Just an idea

 

[Deleted member]

Im using USBgecko, changing values after each match makes for good testing ^^

 

[GPDP]

paprika, what would you say are the chances of making a damage decay only code?

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Also, what are peoples thoughts again on the homebrew app eventually to check and install the latest "official gct". A Brawl+ launcher so to say, checks the latest release, updates automatically onto your SD, then launches geckoos?

Just an idea

it's a good idea. however, it comes back to the problem of who decides on what the official gct will have. will it have wavedashing? 1.1 grav or 1.15 grav? shieldstun to prevent more shieldgrabs, or shieldstun to allow more pressure?

this is a whole new topic in itself.

on top of that, even if we do come up with a good, voted upon codeset, who's to stop another group to make their own 'official gct'?

the biggest fear i have regarding brawl+ is the split of the community.. in more ways than we may anticipate.

 

[Unseen_Killa]

Alright, we seriously need some sort of standard for all these codes.

Like, good opinions, people who really know what they're talking about and have done a lot of testing. Its almost getting "ughhhhh" now cause there's so many codes, I'm not sure what the best combination of them are anymore :/.

Seriously, if nobody else wants to, I'll try to.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

one important issue is that the MAD vs BAD debate is not completely sealed shut. sure you have a few people who use it for fun, but some are really pushing for it, and that topic alone could be what splits a potential brawl+ tournament into two.

 

[kupo15]

Im using USBgecko, changing values after each match makes for good testing ^^

lucky.....

 

[Deleted member]

ok,let's start with the BAD/MAD disussion. firts off just simply saying which side you are on and if we get less than 2/3 majority we need some discussion on it, otherwise I think we can say we have a decicion for standard play.

MAD


BAD
paprika killer

 

[shanus]

it's a good idea. however, it comes back to the problem of who decides on what the official gct will have. will it have wavedashing? 1.1 grav or 1.15 grav? shieldstun to prevent more shieldgrabs, or shieldstun to allow more pressure?

this is a whole new topic in itself.

on top of that, even if we do come up with a good, voted upon codeset, who's to stop another group to make their own 'official gct'?

the biggest fear i have regarding brawl+ is the split of the community.. in more ways than we may anticipate.

i was more saying in the far long term. like maybe the SBR or something. no idea

 

[kupo15]

I think its a no brainer based shearly off of code space. I think this vote should be purely to see where people stand instead of a "2/3rds is standard" sorta thing. But in any case.

BAD all the way

 

[Shadic]

Brawl Airdodge, for sure.

 

[Alopex]

Gah! Wait! Noooo!

Let's NOT use this thread for discussion of a standard!

Let's instead start a NEW thread where we discuss each code one by one every week.

Starting that discussing here will just severely clutter up this thread, and this should be a thread for testing and coding, not tallying.

Yes?