COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Yeroc]

But isnt the cstick merely a macro of "smash control stick" + a? You cant smash the stick in a direction if it's already going that direction, am i right? Presumably a fix would also allow one to perform a usmash if the control stick is already held up, or even allow an ftilt out of a run...

Currently in Brawl, yes that's all it is. But the original idea, and the way it was implemented in Melee, was an instant smash/aerial attack facilitation. It's this idea that really emphasizes how sloppy the "control stick tap" macro is as an implementation of this concept. Look at how we circumvented the cstick fastfall problem. You're preaching to the choir about the cstick being the "easy button." I use it exceedingly rarely in Melee, and only marginally more in Brawl+. But when I'm on the ground, unless I'm running, I expect the cstick to perform smashes. That's what it's for imo. If you're holding up, or down, on the control stick and your "macro" button suddenly loses all distinguishing functionality from simply pressing the A button, then wtf is it even there for?

 

[kupo15]

Currently in Brawl, yes that's all it is. But the original idea, and the way it was implemented in Melee, was an instant smash/aerial attack facilitation.

More evidence that the cstick was intentionally used in a purposeful and different manner was the fact that not only could you do what you described, but you could also "buffer" frame perfect rolls/spot dodges, jumps and dthrows. You can't do this in Brawl

 

[RetroS]

No. I was here for Melee. So no Brawl mentality here. But regardless, Pros owning newbs != depth.

Also, beating the crap out of players < simply beating players. Players get discouraged alot easier when they are completely obliterated. They normally don't feel the same adren rush that players feel in an intense battle that even from start to finish and come down to last blow. In order to actually show them the intensity of Smash, they need to feel said intensity, but if they dont get a chance, then they will shy away from the game and the community would lose a memeber with ungauged potential.

In no way am I saying that Newbs should come in and be able to beat pros or even come close to beating pros.

Depth has to do with the game and its potential. Not its players. And I said that newb shouldnt even come close to beating pros.

The game and its potential are the sole thing that decides what players bring to the game. Players and the game itself are so related that it's impossible to even imply that they are separate issues in determining depth.
And you contradict yourself quite a bit. Which is more important-that players are encouraged, or that newbs should not be able to come close to beating pros? Are you saying that pros should go easy on people in order to encourage them? That's reasonable in friendlies, but in a tournament where stuff matters, people are going to want to give themselves a large margin. Or was that not even what you were trying to say?

 

[GHNeko]

The game and its potential are the sole thing that decides what players bring to the game. Players and the game itself are so related that it's impossible to even imply that they are separate issues in determining depth.
And you contradict yourself quite a bit. Which is more important-that players are encouraged, or that newbs should not be able to come close to beating pros? Are you saying that pros should go easy on people in order to encourage them? That's reasonable in friendlies, but in a tournament where stuff matters, people are going to want to give themselves a large margin. Or was that not even what you were trying to say?

I disagree. I believe depth solely has to do with the game. When a game is shipped as final, it's depth is already set in stone, but no one knows how far this depth extends. Players do not create depth, the find it. When a player discovers something new about the game, they simply realize its existance, when really, it was always there and could always be done. I see the game as a cave. It's dark, and you know it goes far, but to see how far it goes, you have to go in yourself and travel the distance until you reach the end. The cave's end doesnt move back as you move forward.

I encourage all professionals to cater to newbs, and when it comes to matches, I encourage them to give tips and suggestions during mid play. I dont expect them to go easy and I'd rather them not, but I encourage them to make it as much as an intense experience and pleasurable on as possible.

 

[RetroS]

I disagree. I believe depth solely has to do with the game. When a game is shipped as final, it's depth is already set in stone, but no one knows how far this depth extends. Players do not create depth, the find it. When a player discovers something new about the game, they simply realize its existance, when really, it was always there and could always be done. I see the game as a cave. It's dark, and you know it goes far, but to see how far it goes, you have to go in yourself and travel the distance until you reach the end. The cave's end doesnt move back as you move forward.

I encourage all professionals to cater to newbs, and when it comes to matches, I encourage them to give tips and suggestions during mid play. I dont expect them to go easy and I'd rather them not, but I encourage them to make it as much as an intense experience and pleasurable on as possible.

What I meant was, and to use your analogy, you can tell how deep the cave, or game, is, by whether you only see some kids with flashlights walk in occasionally, or whether you see spelunkers with equipment going there consistently. Serious gamers and spelunkers will explore the depths and find everything they can, while other people are just looking to entertain themselves. So, yes, although the cave determines who goes into it, who goes into it depends entirely on the cave, and can be used to gauge how deep it is. And as far as games are concerned, there's no scientific way to determine how deep it is, so playing it or looking at how it is played and who plays it are the best ways to see.

That said, I agree with everything you said this time.

 

[kupo15]

I encourage all professionals to cater to newbs, and when it comes to matches, I encourage them to give tips and suggestions during mid play. I dont expect them to go easy and I'd rather them not, but I encourage them to make it as much as an intense experience and pleasurable on as possible.

If you believe that the depth (which includes difficulty) should solely lie in the game and that the players should be the ones going easy to give the newbs a fun experience, then why does the WBR lead Plus in the direction of the game being easy so that it caters to the noobs a bit?

And shanus I think is ignoring the response I made to his post

 

[Yeroc]

Shanus hasn't been around much at all. He's been working.

 

[shanus]

I'll try nd find time to respond, but I generally have been working well over 50-55 hours a week and trying to balance that + a life outside of work doesn't leave me much time for this

 

[kupo15]

I'll try nd find time to respond, but I generally have been working well over 50-55 hours a week and trying to balance that + a life outside of work doesn't leave me much time for this

No problem. I understand

 

[GHNeko]

If you believe that the depth (which includes difficulty) should solely lie in the game and that the players should be the ones going easy to give the newbs a fun experience, then why does the WBR lead Plus in the direction of the game being easy so that it caters to the noobs a bit?

And shanus I think is ignoring the response I made to his post

I didn't say pros should go easy. I said they should help heighten the experience and give them more reason to press onward in competitive smash, but going easy is not the way to do it.

 

[ぱみゅ]

About custom CCS

Custom Random V1 [spunit262]
06685824 0000000C
3C608068 7C630214
88630E80 00000000
046857F0 3AE000YY
06680E80 000000YY
ZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZ

Fill this out just like you would with the CSS code. YY is the number of characters included in the random select, and ZZ is the character list. Just fill out all the character IDs you want to include (so basically just copy/paste over your CSS and omit any random or none IDs). The order the characters are listed in doesn't matter, but it's important you don't include either "none" (28) or "random" (29) in the list, since that would defeat the purpose of using the custom random code to begin with.

YY is in two lines, I must replace both with the number of characters?

 

[MK26]

Not necessarily the place to ask it, but yes.

 

[Mr Physych]

I have a question about the last three things on the code list, the hybrid airdodge, manual L-Cancel, and melee air dodge.

First of all i was wondering what the difference between thy hybrid airdodge and a melee airdodge, and can you wave dash with the hybrid just like in melee.

Next for manual L-Canceling will the auto cancel need to be removed before using that and if its not will it do 1/4th lag or something?

Finally i was wondering how to implement these codes, take into account my most extensive hacking experience is using a gameshark or action replay. I do have brawl+ set up and i understand textures and that part but i dont know how to change anything other than textures and movesets and im not even that good with PSA

 

[SymphonicSage12]

1. they're pretty much the same. and yes, you can wavedash.

2. idk

3. check in the OP of the code Q&A + Requests thread. I have a guide D:

 

[Mr Physych]

awesome, I just checked out the requests thread and thats pretty much what I needed just one last question, is it possible to decompile the rsbe01 file I already have from brawl+ or do I need to make a new one, if it comes right down to it i'll just start a new one but overall I only want to change a few things so editing their version would be faster

 

[MK26]

gct files are simple hex documents, openable in your favourite hex editor.

Also, the Hybrid Airdodge is basically a single Melee airdodge that does not send you into helpless, followed by however many Brawl airdodges you can fit before you hit the ground, grab and edge, or die

 

[SymphonicSage12]

well, you can find the txt file for your codeset you want to edit...

or, I believe someone made a program called GCTEdit that allows you to directly edit it and save as txt and stuff like that.

 

[Mr Physych]

cool so i found the brawl+ text file but there isnt any code in there for the aerial landing lag reduction that they have implemented,

Does anyone know how they changed that and if its possible to make it only activate with manual L-Canceling?

 

[GHNeko]

Alot of the ALR changes are being ported to .pac files now. :/

 

[Mr Physych]

blah, so if i want to set only lag back to normal i have to edit the attributes on every character? what a joy. are there any resources on the original landing lag?

 

[GHNeko]

Get an unmodified pac or just look up Brawl frame data.

 

[Dantarion]

If I do make a proper l-cancel code, ill make it so that it normally adds 2x lag to prevent brawl+ people from having to fix all the files.

Or, ill write an app in python that batch fixes all the files.

 

[kupo15]

Sounds sweet. Don't know how you guys know all this stuff.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Suggestion: make smash taunts easier. For a) the lulz and b) Samus and the like.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I would like it if taunt-cancelling was added. Just sayin'.


And I really wouldn't like l-cancelling again, but I actually like the concept of Magus Cancelling.


BTW, if anyone wants to try out my .pac files where I have edited the landing lag of everyone to be more...reasonable...I can put it in a .zip and post it.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

I would like it if taunt-cancelling was added. Just sayin'.

Go to Utube and type in dphanna. He has a video on how to do it. You need to use stage editor.

...

 

[SymphonicSage12]

oh wait...actually I can just do PSA to make taunt-canceling.

What really meant tho was for it to be in an official set.

 

[THO]

I'm not sure if any one has talked about this, but is there a way to make it so you can quit a game after you've chosen a level and before the level starts (like in melee). Cuz every one loves that.

 

[meleemaster500]

I just love how the main stance of the brawl community towards hacking brawl has changed from a long time ago...


"Oh dear, have you EVER been to a tournament? Do you even understand the competitive Smash Bros. scene and nature?

Yeah. Let's bring a hacked version of Brawl to a tournament. Tell me how that works out."

 

[zxeon]

I remember that. What were they expecting would happen? Maybe they though a full blown mob would throw anyone caught hacking out onto the street.

 

[GHNeko]

Heavy discontent with something tends to open minds.

 

[AMKalmar]

Suggestion: make smash taunts easier. For a) the lulz and b) Samus and the like.

I don't understand. What is a smash taunt.

Edit! That was a question. In the form of a statement.

 

[jokey665]

I don't understand. What is a smash taunt.

Edit! That was a question. In the form of a statement.

Samus taunting up-down really fast to transform into ZSS, for example. Others include: Fox, Falco, Wolf, Snake.

 

[AMKalmar]

Samus taunting up-down really fast to transform into ZSS, for example. Others include: Fox, Falco, Wolf, Snake.

And what would the others transform into?

 

[jokey665]

And what would the others transform into?

They don't. The spacies call their allies to chat, and Snake gets a codec call based on who he's fighting.

 

[rockmanmegaman]

It'll be kinda cool if you put characters from Melee, but I guess it'll be to difficult.

 

[Deleted member]

Just some recommendations/requests.

I'd like to see an improvement on Samus's bombs.
Explode on contact and good setup for a dair or FF nair, and cancelling charge shot, missiles, aerials from bomb. I think i read that you guys are trying hard on that though. Sry if im redundant =x
Also, Samus's Nair imo needs a lower hit direction angle to kill off a dthrow in middle of stage or send offstage for control.
Great job on her smashes and the throws. KO potential :D

Link's nair and bair are hard and awkward to connect, however the short hop height is perfect on uair, dair, and fair which presents a problem. The height on his hop is too high to execute bair and nair which are staples when the opponent is inside link's spacing. Maybe a larger hitbox would solve the problems with compensation on hit angles and BKB for balance.
Another problem is the animation on a grounded up-b animation outlasts the hitbox, and i find the semi spike not too amazing from a late hit on the move(a bit more hitstun or a deeper angle should work). The up b could use another hitbox with adequate lag for balance similar to melee.

Great job on Ike and the poke trainer. Squirtle seems to be better off with the delayed fair, although he may still be a bit too good.

Oh yeah, how about less landing lag from the helpless state from DK's up b when one falls a large amount? Otherwise he seems real balanced.

Great job on b+ and ty! :D

 

[kupo15]

I recently received a code from the great PW in which I added to the ledges section. You guys might like this.

For modifying the edge snap distances, you'll need to open the character's .pac file in a hex editor and go to:

[[[[0x64] + ([0x68] * 0x4) + 0x80] + 0x90] + 0x94] + 0x80

Square brackets represent the value inside the address indicated.

From there the values are:

+0x4 Minimum distance below edge before edge snap.
+0x8 Distance window away from edge.
+0xC Distance window after minimum distance below edge.

The 0x8 value allows you to modify the distance, but it affects both forward and back edge snapping. You can use the global multiplier for backwards edge snapping to adjust that, but it will apply to all characters. (likely courtesy of the fighter.pac file)

Reverse Edge Snap Modifier: [Phantom Wings]
4A000000 80B883A8
14000000 XXXXXXXX

Where XX is a floating point value.

Just remember that it only modifies the horizontal distance, so if you manage to be exactly under the edge, you will still snap to it.

 

[Slashy]

I just love how the main stance of the brawl community towards hacking brawl has changed from a long time ago...


"Oh dear, have you EVER been to a tournament? Do you even understand the competitive Smash Bros. scene and nature?

Yeah. Let's bring a hacked version of Brawl to a tournament. Tell me how that works out."

It got worse for me. Hacking the game is banned at my university's gaming club, they're actually planning to hold a tournament open to smash boards where hacking is banned at all times, even on your own console during friendlies.

 

[CloneHat]

If someone gives you a dull knife (Sakurai), and someone else gives you a sharpener (Smash Workshop), who in there right mind wouldn't put those two together?