COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[~tgm_Zeej]

In what way is Marth's bthrow worse than Ganon's utilt? Throw the utilt out at the wrong time (see: at all), and you eat fully charged smash attack.


That said, leave the utilt alone. There's nothing wrong with incredibly situational moves.

 

[CountKaiser]

Are we allowed to make individual brawl+ threads in character boards, now? >_>

 

[GHNeko]

In what way is Marth's bthrow worse than Ganon's utilt? Throw the utilt out at the wrong time (see: at all), and you eat fully charged smash attack.


That said, leave the utilt alone. There's nothing wrong with incredibly situational moves.

Utlt > Bthrow because Bthrow has NO purpose what so ever. Everything Bthrow does is down better by Dthrow. Combobility? Dthrow > Bthrow. Damage? Dthrow > Bthrow. KB? Dthrow > Bthrow. Wind down lag? Dthrow > Bthrow. It has no purpose as for whatever it was meant for is out done by throw. Doesn't matter what it is. Dthrow does it better. Unless "suck" is a category as then Bthrow > All Throws marth has.

At least utilt has a situational use and now with NASL, its less situational and more useful ie form of edgeguarding.

Are we allowed to make individual brawl+ threads in character boards, now? >_>

Hahahaha. You wish.

 

[VietGeek]

Utlt > Bthrow because Bthrow has NO purpose what so ever. Everything Bthrow does is down better by Dthrow. Combobility? Dthrow > Bthrow. Damage? Dthrow > Bthrow. KB? Dthrow > Bthrow. Wind down lag? Dthrow > Bthrow. It has no purpose as for whatever it was meant for is out done by throw. Doesn't matter what it is. Dthrow does it better. Unless "suck" is a category as then Bthrow > All Throws marth has.

Just leave it. That's how the other Smash game had it. A useless filler move.

I'm joking of course.

Well somewhat. I remembered from various Melee matches that Ken used to use Bthrow over Dthrow a lot and then M2K would DI it upward and punish Ken afterward. Later matches, Ken used Dthrow like everyone else.

It's kinda doubtful they'd buff Marth at all. He's already good, and the mentality seems to be that no one should buff a character's moves if the character itself is good and has reliable bread-and-butter. The only reason anyone wants to buff Jigg's Rest is because it's already harder to land and set up, yet it may not even kill until percentages where it's not longer reasonable to commit to such a risk. You'd get a similar result trying to WoP them out with fairs.

 

[GHNeko]

Just leave it. That's how the other Smash game had it. A useless filler move.

I'm joking of course.

Well somewhat. I remembered from various Melee matches that Ken used to use Bthrow over Dthrow a lot and then M2K would DI it upward and punish Ken afterward. Later matches, Ken used Dthrow like everyone else.

It's kinda doubtful they'd buff Marth at all. He's already good, and the mentality seems to be that no one should buff a character's moves if the character itself is good and has reliable bread-and-butter. The only reason anyone wants to buff Jigg's Rest is because it's already harder to land and set up, yet it may not even kill until percentages where it's not longer reasonable to commit to such a risk. You'd get a similar result trying to WoP them out with fairs.

I don't want to buff Marth. He's perfectly awesome as he is. I'm just making a point about how pathetic it is as an overall move.

 

[jmlee337]

Just leave it. That's how the other Smash game had it. A useless filler move.

I'm joking of course.

Well somewhat. I remembered from various Melee matches that Ken used to use Bthrow over Dthrow a lot and then M2K would DI it upward and punish Ken afterward. Later matches, Ken used Dthrow like everyone else.

It's kinda doubtful they'd buff Marth at all. He's already good, and the mentality seems to be that no one should buff a character's moves if the character itself is good and has reliable bread-and-butter. The only reason anyone wants to buff Jigg's Rest is because it's already harder to land and set up, yet it may not even kill until percentages where it's not longer reasonable to commit to such a risk. You'd get a similar result trying to WoP them out with fairs.

In melee, Marth's B-Throw is used on Jigglypuff to get a free FSmash at reasonable percentages

 

[GHNeko]

In melee, Marth's B-Throw is used on Jigglypuff to get a free FSmash at reasonable percentages

Too bad it doesnt work now because then my arguement would of just been **** upon.

awesome.gif

 

[leafgreen386]

It already has been since marth has other actually useful throws. A grab is what you're actually going to connect with in a fight, not the throw. As long as a character has at least one usable throw, their grab is a viable option.

Not saying I support a jiggs sing buff. If we did give her one, it would be very minute. Just figured I'd point that out.

 

[wazgood]

can we give every character a power throw? currently ness' bthrow doesnt even kill until mid 100s.

 

[Dark Sonic]

In melee, Marth's B-Throw is used on Jigglypuff to get a free FSmash at reasonable percentages

Once again you're thinking of d-throw. B-throw gets you rested (at really low percentages, after that you get faired sometimes, and after those percentages you end up neutral with the thrown Jigglypuff)

The two throws that lead to f-smash (assuming they don't know how to correctly DI them) are f-throw and d-throw. NOT b-throw (which is a common mistake when people who don't play Marth refer to him, since d-throw does essentially act as his "back throw")

can we give every character a power throw? currently ness' bthrow doesnt even kill until mid 100s.

Umm...no. Marth/MK/other character with weak throws with a throw that acts as a kill move? Not gonna happen.

We can buff power throws that got nerfed though (if necessary)

 

[GHNeko]

can we give every character a power throw? currently ness' bthrow doesnt even kill until mid 100s.

That's because its a vertical based through and vertical ANYTHING (anything that sends up) has been nerfed due to gravity.

 

[kupo15]

That's because its a vertical based through and vertical ANYTHING (anything that sends up) has been nerfed due to gravity.

I don't know how DI works, I think it alters the launch angle of moves. I proposed making a code that acts like DI to globally correct the launch angles of all moves due to gravity in the back room but haven't gotten much feedback.

 

[leafgreen386]

I don't know how DI works, I think it alters the launch angle of moves. I proposed making a code that acts like DI to globally correct the launch angles of all moves due to gravity in the back room but haven't gotten much feedback.

Well, an angle correction would fix combo moves, but not kill percents. For that you'd have to lower the ceiling, or instead of buffing vert kills back up, you can nerf horizontal kills down by expanding the sides.

 

[SketchHurricane]

can we give every character a power throw? currently ness' bthrow doesnt even kill until mid 100s.

Why? It killed around 120 average in vB. And Ness is better now.

And why is this Jiggz/Marth discussion going on in both threads instead of one?

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Ness' bthrow kills decently enough. Throwing someone left from the right edge of the stage isn't going to work, obviously but it will kill if paced right.

 

[GHNeko]

And why is this Jiggz/Marth discussion going on in both threads instead of one?

Nooo clue.

 

[ShortFuse]

What's going on!? Marth changes and I'm not being asked?!?!

I played on Saturday with a couple of friends and really, all I can complain about Marth is that his uThrow should kill earlier. Other than that...really nothing.

His fB is so great it's almost broken. I like it.
New shield stun allows easier shield breaking.
His dAir is actually useful mid combat since it has little landing lag.
Crouch cancelling allows running into fSmash

Everything is working great for Marth. Nothing is worse except now you can't UP+B immediately out of shield because of shield stun. It's fine, I guess. It was a bit too broken in vBrawl.

 

[GHNeko]

What's going on!? Marth changes and I'm not being asked?!?!

I played on Saturday with a couple of friends and really, all I can complain about Marth is that his uThrow should kill earlier. Other than that...really nothing.

His fB is so great it's almost broken. I like it.
New shield stun allows easier shield breaking.
His dAir is actually useful mid combat since it has little landing lag.
Crouch cancelling allows running into fSmash

Everything is working great for Marth. Nothing is worse except now you can't UP+B immediately out of shield because of shield stun. It's fine, I guess. It was a bit too broken in vBrawl.

H-Hey! I'm a Marth main too! I know what I'm talking about!

Also, imo, I wish uthrow had less KB so I could follow up with utilt.

Utilt juggles <3

 

[Greenpoe]

Well, an angle correction would fix combo moves, but not kill percents. For that you'd have to lower the ceiling, or instead of buffing vert kills back up, you can nerf horizontal kills down by expanding the sides.

Expanding the sides would buff spikes, gimps, and vertical KO's, however.

 

[alvicala]

Is there a difference between these two codes?

No Random Tripping [Y.S.]
0481CB34 EC210828

Tripping Rate Modifier [KirbyIsCool]
0481CB34 C0220020
045A9340 00000000

I´ve been having trippings with KirbyIsCool´s one (which is the one in 3-24-2009 2AM beta plusery codeset), dont know if it happened to anyone else.

Maybe its just meh.

 

[GHNeko]

Is there a difference between these two codes?

No Random Tripping [Y.S.]
0481CB34 EC210828

Tripping Rate Modifier [KirbyIsCool]
0481CB34 C0220020
045A9340 00000000

I´ve been having trippings with KirbyIsCool´s one (which is the one in 3-24-2009 2AM beta plusery codeset), dont know if it happened to anyone else.

Maybe its just meh.

The first one has a set constant of 0.0% always

The second one lets you change the % of how often you trip. (Yes. Even to 100%)

 

[kupo15]

one is shorter

 

[alvicala]

Ah, ok. the one liner is better for No Tripping AT ALL, then. Am I right?

 

[GHNeko]

Ah, ok. the one liner is better for No Tripping AT ALL, then. Am I right?

yes.

10yes.

 

[kupo15]

Ah, ok. the one liner is better for No Tripping AT ALL, then. Am I right?

yes.

10yes.

Wrong and wrong. You still trip via moves like dtilts and bananas, 1 line is better because its...1 line. At one point in time, line space was an issue.

 

[GPDP]

Actually, somehow, I managed to induce a trip using the one liner when it first came out. It happened at the edge of FD, and I wasn't able to replicate it, but it happened nevertheless.

 

[GHNeko]

Wrong and wrong. You still trip via moves like dtilts and bananas, 1 line is better because its...1 line. At one point in time, line space was an issue.

Ohhh. I miss understood. I figured by this point in B+ that when people talk about tripping, its just random tripping.

 

[leafgreen386]

Ohhh. I miss understood. I figured by this point in B+ that when people talk about tripping, its just random tripping.

Correction: Dash tripping. Because move tripping is still semi-random and isn't affected >_>

 

[kupo15]

The first one liner code spunit made from the 2 liner which was buggy, this one is by YS who I believe helped make the first no tripping code and works fine

 

[GPDP]

The first one liner code spunit made from the 2 liner which was buggy, this one is by YS who I believe helped make the first no tripping code and works fine

Ah, gotcha. I thought it looked slightly different.

 

[alvicala]

Wrong and wrong. You still trip via moves like dtilts and bananas, 1 line is better because its...1 line. At one point in time, line space was an issue.

Sorry, my mistake. I meant no RANDOM Tripping AT ALL. I know bananas and attacks still affect.

However, I still get random trippings with both codes. Anyone got the same problem? Its very strange. I had no problems with these on the previous beta.

 

[GHNeko]

Sorry, my mistake. I meant no RANDOM Tripping AT ALL. I know bananas and attacks still affect.

AH HA. I KNEW IT. It's like common knowledge now.

 

[CountKaiser]

What other codes do we need? Other than a hitbox modifier that affects throws?

And why do we need them?

 

[Shell]

Better Meteor Canceling system and a handful of fixes:

Fixed teching code (Ganon Choke)

Fixed momentum code (Sonic SDJ)

Fixed hitbox modifier (to handle projectiles and grabs)

And a stage size mod would be icing on the cake (more room for team matches)

 

[GHNeko]

Better Meteor Canceling system and a handful of fixes:

Fixed teching code (Ganon Choke)

Fixed momentum code (Sonic SDJ)

Fixed hitbox modifier (to handle projectiles and grabs)

And a stage size mod would be icing on the cake (more room for team matches)

We already have a stage size mod. It just hasnt been put to use.

 

[Greenpoe]

Edit; Nevermind

 

[K1T3]

What other codes do we need? Other than a hitbox modifier that affects throws?

And why do we need them?

A code to let you input a move as you jump instead of having that window that does not accept any button press.

I don't know if there is a code for it already or not but one to increase the time require to let go of shield so you can't tilt out at the same speed you can jump out.

 

[leafgreen386]

A code to let you input a move as you jump instead of having that window that does not accept any button press.

I don't know if there is a code for it already or not but one to increase the time require to let go of shield so you can't tilt out at the same speed you can jump out.

There are seven frames from when you let up on the shield button and the shield goes down. There are zero frames from when you press the jump button and you jump. Shields have already been greatly nerfed in brawl+ thanks to shieldstun, so this change is really unnecessary.

The first one you listed is indeed necessary. Having that 1 frame window where you can't input any actions... is incredibly stupid.

 

[K1T3]

There are seven frames from when you let up on the shield button and the shield goes down. There are zero frames from when you press the jump button and you jump. Shields have already been greatly nerfed in brawl+ thanks to shieldstun, so this change is really unnecessary.

The first one you listed is indeed necessary. Having that 1 frame window where you can't input any actions... is incredibly stupid.

Is it really only 1 frame? It feels like a lot more...

Shield stun doesn't change anything about what you can do from a shield. The options OOS remain the same as in vanilla brawl just now you have to wait a bit longer to be able to execute those options.
If I'm Fox for instance and I want to shield a laggy attack I could just usmash immediately and there wouldn't be a reason for me to jump out w/ a dair. Now with shieldstun I just have to wait for the shield stun but I can still get the let go and usmash at the same rate as before and it would still be the better option at the time instead of the jump out dair.

In melee if I shielded an attack as fox I would immediatly shorthop out with a drill shine or something else, whereas if I Powershielded the attack instead I would just upsmash as I didn't have the shield let go lag. So powershielding gained a motivation behind it to learn and master for less lag that way I could do a standing attack instead of an airial.

Well in the end as long as there as some that want the code and it's not to complex, and shows some competative value, why not make it? I'm not saying it must be used by everyone or anything...

Edit: Yeah I actually usually jc usmash from shield in melee. I normally powershield dsmash with peach though which is nice to be able to do. In brawl there is no need to do that though as I can just let go.

 

[leafgreen386]

Is it really only 1 frame? It feels like a lot more...

Shield stun doesn't change anything about what you can do from a shield. The options OOS remain the same as in vanilla brawl just now you have to wait a bit longer to be able to execute those options.
If I'm Fox for instance and I want to shield a laggy attack I could just usmash immediately and there wouldn't be a reason for me to jump out w/ a dair. Now with shieldstun I just have to wait for the shield stun but I can still get the let go and usmash at the same rate as before and it would still be the better option at the time instead of the jump out dair.

In melee if I shielded an attack as fox I would immediatly shorthop out with a drill shine or something else, whereas if I Powershielded the attack instead I would just upsmash as I didn't have the shield let go lag. So powershielding gained a motivation behind it to learn and master for less lag that way I could do a standing attack instead of an airial.

Well in the end as long as there as some that want the code and it's not to complex, and shows some competative value, why not make it? I'm not saying it must be used by everyone or anything...

You do know that you could've jumpcanceled your usmash out of the shield, right? It only adds four more frames to the move, as opposed to letting the shield down and having to wait 15 frames before starting it.

And the existence of shieldstun still stops the shield from being broken. The fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter what you can do out of shield. A lot of moves are still safe on block thanks to shieldstun.

edit: Electric hitlag hasn't really been decided on yet. No stale moves with fresh bonus means that a fresh move (aka one not in the queue) will receive a 1.05x bonus to its damage and kb. This was removed from brawl+ a while ago, though. So now it's just no stale moves. Period.