COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[kupo15]

try taking off the level mod

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfpJj4Ln1Uc&feature=channel_page

 

[TonyTH07]

Well any way we can get rid of the gravity on Sonic's third jump? It really screws him over and shortens the hieght of the jump.

 

[leafgreen386]

Vulcan, try turning off the level speed mod. I've been using ganon just fine with all those other codes, although I haven't tried it with the level mod, yet (I don't get why this would cause a problem, but it's the only thing I can think of). If that doesn't work, try using just one of the two ledge codes at a time to try to figure out which one is causing the problem.

Wait, actually, I haven't been using the dash cancel code, either. Is this happening regardless of how you try to grab the ledge, or just by hugging? If it's the latter, then I think that's your culprit.

Tony, do you have the full grav mod on or just the downward grav mod? You should only have a downwards mod on. If it's still nerfing sonic's upB with just the downward grav mod then that could be a problem. And if that's the case, then that would mean no one actually thought to test sonic's upB with the downgrav mod because they all assumed it would be fine lol

 

[Vulcan55]

I think something is wrong with lagless ledges, because the code doesn't work.

 

[SketchHurricane]

I tried doing lagless ledges and no-auto sweetspot again, but it still froze. I did some tests, and it happens whenever the highest priority slot grabs the ledge. (Player 1, if playing. if not, then player 2, etc.)

I think something is wrong with lagless ledges, because the code doesn't work.

You tried it completely isolated?

Heres my copy/pasted code that's been working:

Lagless Edge 1.0
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
36000000 00000032
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
92210002 00000014
92210003 00000018
92210004 00000068
92210005 0000007C
58010000 0000007C
58010000 0000002C
58010000 00000004
92210006 00000018
80000007 BF800000
4A001005 00000000
30000038 00000074
4A001002 00000000
34000040 40100000
C0000000 00000012
9421FF80 BC410008
3C808000 60841808
80A40008 80C4000C
80E40010 81040014
81240018 C004001C
C0270044 FC010040
40810010 C027003C
FC010040 4081002C
C0460040 C0270040
EC2100B2 FC010040
40810014 C0270038
EC2100B2 FC010040
40810008 4800001C
39400001 B1490008
3940000E B149000E
3940FFFF B1490010
B8410008 38210080
4E800020 00000000
E2000002 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

 

[leafgreen386]

Huh? Are you sure? It was working fine for me... You're sure you copied it correctly?

Lagless ledges
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
36000000 00000032
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
92210002 00000014
92210003 00000018
92210004 00000068
92210005 0000007C
58010000 0000007C
58010000 0000002C
58010000 00000004
92210006 00000018
80000007 BF800000
4A001005 00000000
30000038 00000074
4A001002 00000000
34000040 40100000
C0000000 00000012
9421FF80 BC410008
3C808000 60841808
80A40008 80C4000C
80E40010 81040014
81240018 C004001C
C0270044 FC010040
40810010 C027003C
FC010040 4081002C
C0460040 C0270040
EC2100B2 FC010040
40810014 C0270038
EC2100B2 FC010040
40810008 4800001C
39400001 B1490008
3940000E B149000E
3940FFFF B1490010
B8410008 38210080
4E800020 00000000
E2000002 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

edit: lol late

 

[Vulcan55]

If I do it isolated, the game never even loads. After it "applies the code list!" the screen turns black and stays that way.

 

[Team Giza]

If I do it isolated, the game never even loads. After it "applies the code list!" the screen turns black and stays that way.

Make sure you copied it correctly. That sounds like what happens if you don't have the last line in. Perhaps the problem is that you went over the 265 line limit and the rest of that code doesn't get to be put in the game.

 

[kupo15]

Well any way we can get rid of the gravity on Sonic's third jump? It really screws him over and shortens the hieght of the jump.

I was playing with the up/down mod and it felt fine and sonic seemed fine also. I used 1.1

 

[Vulcan55]

Make sure you copied it correctly. That sounds like what happens if you don't have the last line in. Perhaps the problem is that you went over the 265 line limit and the rest of that code doesn't get to be put in the game.

Nope. It's 194 total.

 

[Osi]

So I finally hit the 256 limit once I added in the global level freeze code lol. I had to make the replay code into the single line version: 040E5DE8 60000000 to fit it in. Are there any bugs with the single line code outside of not being able to save stuff like homerun contest and events?

Levels not moving is amazing! So many levels are now fine to be set on random. The only downside is smashville and yoshi's do not move, but that's not a huge deal. Norfair is freaking amazing now lol, it's so fun.

Currently using:
MAD
ALC
Hitstun: 10%
Fall speed: 1.25
No sweetspot edges
Ledge cancel
single line replay code
levels do not move - the global one
No tripping

 

[plasmatorture]

Single line version works fine but you won't see the option to save a replay after a match if it's over the limit (you can still hit Z and it will still work, though); the second two lines always display the option and let you save the homerun contest and event stuff.

 

[kupo15]

So I finally hit the 256 limit once I added in the global level freeze code lol. I had to make the replay code into the single line version: 040E5DE8 60000000 to fit it in. Are there any bugs with the single line code outside of not being able to save stuff like homerun contest and events?

Levels not moving is amazing! So many levels are now fine to be set on random. The only downside is smashville and yoshi's do not move, but that's not a huge deal. Norfair is freaking amazing now lol, it's so fun.

Currently using:
MAD
ALC
Hitstun: 10%
Fall speed: 1.25
No sweetspot edges
Ledge cancel
single line replay code
levels do not move - the global one
No tripping

**** well i guess MAD will be out for you once we get shield nerfs, DD or glitch fixes lol

 

[MookieRah]

Seeing how I think the ledge codes are WAAAAY more important than MAD, and that I really don't think you could make the MAD code that much smaller, it's easy for me to say that MAD just isn't worth it. It was already iffy at best, and this is just another nail into the coffin.

 

[zxeon]

Seeing how I think the ledge codes are WAAAAY more important than MAD, and that I really don't think you could make the MAD code that much smaller, it's easy for me to say that MAD just isn't worth it. It was already iffy at best, and this is just another nail into the coffin.

Hey hey, directional airdodge still has a chance if not in MAD code then in a later version. We could see something like a 20 line reduction in the code.

 

[Grunt]

I don't have MAD on. pretty good, but Lagless ledges keeps freezing.

 

[Osi]

**** well i guess MAD will be out for you once we get shield nerfs, DD or glitch fixes lol

Yup, you are correct, it will be pushed out if any decent DD code is made. I am just waiting for a HAD/DD code to come out to replace it.

 

[MookieRah]

Hey hey, directional airdodge still has a chance if not in MAD code then in a later version. We could see something like a 20 line reduction in the code.

60+ lines of code is still a lot of code for something that we are iffy on.

 

[kupo15]

Hey hey, directional airdodge still has a chance if not in MAD code then in a later version. We could see something like a 20 line reduction in the code.

I still don't understand how MAD can be reduced. Idk everything your hoping to have so tell me if Im missing anything

MAD
-Add 10 frames of landing lag (+lines)

HAD
-Add 10 frames of landing lag (+ lines)
-Add another flag that allows BAD as well (+lines)

But w/e time will tell

 

[Osi]

I still don't understand how MAD can be reduced. Idk everything your hoping to have so tell me if Im missing anything

MAD
-Add landing lag (+lines)

HAD
-Add landing lag (+ lines)
-Add another flag that allows BAD as well (+lines)

But w/e time will tell

Wasn't the plan for mad to just remove lines restricting actions after the air dodge is used? Allowing the air dodge to act more like BAD while being controllable. Adding landing lag will cause more lines though I'd assume.

 

[zxeon]

Wasn't the plan for mad to just remove lines restricting actions after the air dodge is used? Allowing the air dodge to act more like BAD while being controllable. Adding landing lag will cause more lines though I'd assume.

Something like that and add like a 60 frame (or higher) restriction on when you can use L again. Then you kinda create a risk reward kind of thing.

 

[storm92]

Something like that and add like a 60 frame (or higher) restriction on when you can use L again. Then you kinda create a risk reward kind of thing.

Good ideas but once again, coding.
That will add more coding even if the removing of the block on all actions takes away a few.
We're still looking at a massive code.

 

[Finns7]

Im still keeping Mad until then, I think the glitches need to go first before anything, and lets not hope one of our future codes doesnt create more glitches....Why is everyone saying the ledge codes cause glitches? I havent noticed this.

 

[zxeon]

Good ideas but once again, coding.
That will add more coding even if the removing of the block on all actions takes away a few.
We're still looking at a massive code.

It shouldn't cost that much in terms of lines and directional airdodging has many benefits not just one. So it should be viewed as a list of benefits rather than just one code.

 

[Alopex]

I'll still take Shield Stun, harder Powershielding, proper Lagless Ledges, and universal Grab Release/Break frames over the MAD. Those are genuine mechanistic fixes. The MAD doesn't "fix" the airdodge, it just changes it. I want fixes first, and changes later.

 

[BrutalBrutal]

It's looking like we are close to running out of code space. In light of this, I'd like to point out some things about the proposed powershielding nerfs:

1. Powershielding is currently an easy to perform mechanic. Much too easy, it is said.

2. It has been said that it should be impossible to consistently perform a powershield.

3. If we make powershielding impossible to consistently perform, we might as well make it impossible, period. It will have no effect on the metagame and successfully performing it will be a matter of luck, a factor which should be eliminated to the greatest degree possible. Given that the powershielding fix might take many lines, we should just remove it entirely, which would be much simpler.

4. If powershielding were possible to perform consistently, just more difficult than currently, then all it would do would be to make it harder to perform, in which case it would still be an essential part of the metagame but simply more difficult than it currently is. We've already had a discussion regarding whether technical skill for its own sake is desirable (with regard to [Auto] L-Canceling) and decided that it is not.

Let's remove powershielding, or not. It's pointless to waste codespace on something so otiose.

 

[plasmatorture]

Powershielding and L-canceling are different. Powershielding as is is closer to being like Auto S-Canceling than Auto L-Canceling, when it should be a timing thing that is somewhat difficult. Nobody wants auto s canceling, and I can't imagine very many people really want super easy power shielding. If it's a ton of lines I can't imagine it's worth it, but if it can be made more similar to Melee (perhaps a touch easier, perhaps not) that'd be better.

 

[BrutalBrutal]

plasmatorture: Powershielding and L-canceling are different. Powershielding as is is closer to being like Auto S-Canceling than Auto L-Canceling, when it should be a timing thing that is somewhat difficult. Nobody wants auto s canceling, and I can't imagine very many people really want super easy power shielding. If it's a ton of lines I can't imagine it's worth it, but if it can be made more similar to Melee (perhaps a touch easier, perhaps not) that'd be better.

You haven't understood a word I've said. In high-level play, something is doable or it is not. If something is difficult to do, but feasible, then people will master it. If it is impossible to do it consistently then people will not incorporate it into their game. Making something difficult for the sake of adding tech skill is not desirable. Your vague argument regarding S-canceling makes little sense: I think what you're trying to say is that easy powershielding makes a bigger difference to the game than automatic L-Canceling, but that point is null and void: my argument holds regardless of how much advantage is gained from the technical skill in question. We do not want tech skill for its own sake: we seek to add options, or limit/remove them. We should take out powershieling or leave it in, not some mediocre "solution" which does neither.

Anyone reading this post, please refer to my previous post for a more complete outline of my arguments.

 

[MookieRah]

There is ABSOLUTELY no point in fixing power shielding. If it was as easy as people make it out to be then pretty much everything in every high level Brawl match would be power shielded. As it stands, you can only really power shield obvious things, such as a single move spam, projectiles, and things one can predict. That's perfectly fine by me.

In Melee the best players could somewhat consistently power shield projectiles, and even that was about 1/2 to 2/3rds of the time at best. It was a completely useless mechanic for standard attacks, cause it's so hard to gauge the timing of non-projectiles. In that sense, power shielding was rather useless. Lets keep power shielding in Brawl as is because it is useful.

That said, it's also pointless to make teching easier. We don't need to waste code on making working mechanics easier. We should try to fix things that aren't working or need to be in the game. Maybe if we have extra code left over we can think about it, but judging by the latest batch of codes we are going to have to start picking and choosing.

 

[kupo15]

There is ABSOLUTELY no point in fixing power shielding. If it was as easy as people make it out to be then pretty much everything in every high level Brawl match would be power shielded. As it stands, you can only really power shield obvious things, such as a single move spam, projectiles, and things one can predict. That's perfectly fine by me.

In Melee the best players could somewhat consistently power shield projectiles, and even that was about 1/2 to 2/3rds of the time at best. It was a completely useless mechanic for standard attacks, cause it's so hard to gauge the timing of non-projectiles. In that sense, power shielding was rather useless. Lets keep power shielding in Brawl as is because it is useful.

That said, it's also pointless to make teching easier. We don't need to waste code on making working mechanics easier. We should try to fix things that aren't working or need to be in the game. Maybe if we have extra code left over we can think about it, but judging by the latest batch of codes we are going to have to start picking and choosing.

I see where your going but here is my reasoning behind why players don't attempt to powershield as often. The normal shields are too good that 90% (some big %) of blocked things can be blocked with the normal shield that you don't need to PS. But when we have shield stun, then PSing will have more value since you will be more punished to block with the regular shield and if the PS is this easy with shield stun, then shield stun loses its value because everyone will be doing the easy PSing.

PSing is a really powerful tool that should not be easy and I think with brawl's slower pace, lowering the frame window to melee's window won't be that bad and it will lessen the frequency of Auto PSing. Every time someone PSes when I play them I get this sick feeling in my stomach because of how easy such a powerful thing is to do. So I think that by adding shield stun and making PS timing harder, it creates more depth because you have to chose to attempt a harder timing (which should still be easier in brawl) at the risk of getting hit instead of always going for the PS because its rather easy and much more rewarding

 

[SGX]

I still don't agree with having tech skills in the game that cannot be done consistently. At this point, I don't think it would be worth the lines of code to reduce the PS window, and I don't think its something that people universally want and will adopt either.

 

[Revven]

Honestly, I like how PSing is ACTUALLY USEFUL in this one. In Melee, it feels like it's all just luck of the draw when you pull that shield out from an attack coming straight at you. In Brawl, you can PS projectiles easily stopping projectile spam (which, if we lowered the PS window, how the hell do you expect ANYONE to go after a camper with JUST air dodging?) and can get out of multi-hit attacks like jabs and drills. It's also useful for predicting your opponent's move and PSing it instead of just taking the hit or spot dodging it.

I see why you want the window smaller but, don't the cons outweigh the pros? Sort of like how the BAD vs. MAD argument is, you're trading defense for offense again. PSing isn't WHY Brawl's defense system is ridiculous, it's the shield itself with no stun and the fact that YOU CAN NEVER BREAK SHIELDS! It lasts SO much longer, I swear.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Let's remove powershielding, or not. It's pointless to waste codespace on something so otiose.

And the award for the most obscure vocabulary goes to...Brutal! For "otiose"

Anyway, your points hold merit, but who said we wanted to make PS'ing "impossible" in the first place? We only commented that it was impossible in Melee, not that we wanted to do the same in Brawl. In fact, I specifically remember discussion to reach a compromise of like, 4-6 frames or something. If you go back a few pages you'll find it.

PS'ing isn't an all or nothing mechanic like L-cancel is, and Kupo states why below.

I think that by adding shield stun and making PS timing harder, it creates more depth because you have to chose to attempt a harder timing (which should still be easier in brawl) at the risk of getting hit instead of always going for the PS because its rather easy and much more rewarding

As you can see, there is a risk/reward system with PS'ing. You could play it safe with a normal shield, or go for the counter with a powershield. In this way it is different from L-cancel, since there is a clear reason why you would choose not to risk a powershield in a tight situation.

It's true that you don't see rampant PS'ing, but you definitely see it. Kupo makes a good point in that you don't need to try to powershield because the regular shield is just as good in most cases. The real problem that I see with PS'ing is that it happens by accident all the time. The window is so lenient that you don't have to "try", just a normal reaction will probably get you the powershield.

Now if we do tweak shield stun, creating a clearer disadvantage to shielding, people will attempt more powershields, and it might become more obvious that it is too easy. However, I think it's perfectly acceptable to tweak the regular shield and leave PS'ing alone until it becomes obvious we need to tweak that as well. Personally I think spot dodging is used way more often than PS'ing, and will continue to be regardless of what we do to the shield.

 

[kupo15]

Honestly, I like how PSing is ACTUALLY USEFUL in this one. In Melee, it feels like it's all just luck of the draw when you pull that shield out from an attack coming straight at you. In Brawl, you can PS projectiles easily stopping projectile spam (which, if we lowered the PS window, how the hell do you expect ANYONE to go after a camper with JUST air dodging?) and can get out of multi-hit attacks like jabs and drills. It's also useful for predicting your opponent's move and PSing it instead of just taking the hit or spot dodging it.

I see why you want the window smaller but, don't the cons outweigh the pros? Sort of like how the BAD vs. MAD argument is, you're trading defense for offense again. PSing isn't WHY Brawl's defense system is ridiculous, it's the shield itself with no stun and the fact that YOU CAN NEVER BREAK SHIELDS! It lasts SO much longer, I swear.

Oh don't get me wrong...I said that defense is strong because of no shield stun. I think that it should be slightly harder to do, but not by much so it is still relatively easy. But I feel that right now it is too easy to do and the frequency of auto PSing is annoying. I don't even have to try sometimes and I PS now.....

EDIT: lol sketch, you read my mind as I was typing

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

if anything should be done to tech rolling, i believe that it should probably be a bit faster and longer. right now, teching is a bit too punishable.

 

[kupo15]

Stage code added

 

[cAm8ooo]

Holy ****. Specific speed modifier for stages. My dream has come true Now i just need to figure out how to work it

 

[Almas]

Just repeat the XX line for each stage you want to freeze. Then swap the XX in each line for the code ID corresponding to one of the maps to freeze:

01 - BattleField
02 - Final Destination
03 - Delfino Plaza
04 - Luigi's Mansion
05 - Mushroomy Kingdom
06 - Mario Circuit
07 - 75 m
08 - Rumble Falls
09 - Pirate Ship
0A - Bridge of Eldin
0B - Norfair
0C - Frigate Orpheon
0D - Yoshi's Island
0E - Halberd
13 - Lylat Cruise
14 - Pokémon Stadium 2
15 - Spear Pillar
16 - Port Town Aero Dive
17 - Summit
18 - Flat Zone 2
19 - Castle Siege
1C - WarioWare, Inc.
1D - Distant Planet
1E - Skyworld
1F - Mario Bros.
20 - New Pork City
21 - Smashville
22 - Shadow Moses Island
23 - Green Hill Zone
24 - PictoChat
25 - Hanenbow
29 - Temple
2A - Yoshi's Island
2B - Jungle Japes
2C - Onett
2D - Green Greens
2E - Pokémon Stadium
2F - Rainbow Cruise
30 - Corneria
31 - Big Blue
32 - Brinstar

For example, if I wanted to freeze Rainbow Cruise, Big Blue and Hanenbow (chosen arbitrarily), my code would be:

Level Speed Modifier (Specific Stages) (5+X lines) [Phantom Wings/Almas]
4A000000 90000000 
1416A904 00000000
22623090 0000002F  // The ID for Rainbow Cruise
22623090 00000031 // The ID for Big Blue
22623090 00000025 // The ID for Hanenbow
1416A904 3F800000
E0000000 80008000

A note: if you want to include the line number in the code name, it should probably be 4+X, not 5+X.

 

[yummynbeefy]

Stupid stuff

-Remove "fake" hitlag

-Hitlag modifier

-Port priority

-Sonic's triple jump glitch

-No laser/icicle/jab lock

-Triple jump glitch

-Names in replays

Chararacter specific

-Hook shot from anywhere

-No release grab glitch on ness/lucas/wario
Always give back second jump while in a grab. Shorten Ness/lucas grab release animation

those hacks and kupos "support" hacks (l cancelin, no tripping, hitstun) and id say a perfect game

those are the only codes im in total agreement with
decay im on the boarder for and im totally agenst changing airdodging
___________________________________________________________________

Click here to level up my card!

 

[cAm8ooo]

ahh, thank you almas. That makes perfect sense. Now off to test it, keep up the good work guys.