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Community Patch Notes v1.03

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The only reason I worry about Nintendo balance patches is because how they have nerfed in the past... basically ranomdly changing launch angles and deleting kill options, leaving characters completely worthless in the process. See Brawl Sheik, Brawl Peach.

Nintendo thinks making things not kill is cruise control for balance.
 
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Quillion

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I'll stop trolling (it probably wasn't funny).

But really; balance patches can be a lot more disruptive than people give then credit for.
 

Thinkaman

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But really; balance patches can be a lot more disruptive than people give then credit for.
This is definitely true; you do hear horror stories of games hurt by poor patches. Many are complaining that StarCraft 2 is being overpatched, and that this is hurting its competitive development.

If nothing else, I can confirm that it's certainly hard work!
 

HiNiTe

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You guys give Nintendo way more credit than it's worth in this situation. Nintendo is the most backwards company when it comes to actual game balance, and they aren't transparent in any patch notes unless it's really obvious. In MK8's 2.0 patch, they said things like "Online play has been improved" and "Further changes have been made to improve user experience" when it was very clear that none of that really happened. The same generic note is listed in all Wii, 3DS and Wii U patch notes as well.

It's very likely, as in 99%, that there were no changes to the fighters' movesets or hitboxes. Now that this patch is out with that vague note, people will go around trying to figure out things that already existed in the previous version, like multi-hitting moves connecting better when there will (possibly) never be any definitive proof that such a thing happened unless Nintendo said it directly. And I can prove that's bull**** because I still whiff Meta Knight's up-B even if the first hit lands correctly.

- Different block sizes by region(?) [ @Aerodrome ]
It means the block sizes of the download when you buy the game from the eShop (not the ROM size itself, particularly.)
 
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LancerStaff

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You guys give Nintendo way more credit than it's worth in this situation. Nintendo is the most backwards company when it comes to actual game balance, and they aren't transparent in any patch notes unless it's really obvious. In MK8's 2.0 patch, they said things like "Online play has been improved" and "Further changes have been made to improve user experience" when it was very clear that none of that really happened. The same generic note is listed in all Wii, 3DS and Wii U patch notes as well.

It's very likely, as in 99%, that there were no changes to the fighters' movesets or hitboxes. Now that this patch is out with that vague note, people will go around trying to figure out things that already existed in the previous version, like multi-hitting moves connecting better when there will (possibly) never be any definitive proof that such a thing happened unless Nintendo said it directly. And I can prove that's bull**** because I still whiff Meta Knight's up-B even if the first hit lands correctly.


It means the block sizes of the download when you buy the game from the eShop (not the ROM size itself, particularly.)
MK8 2.0 added the on-screen map, bumped up the VR cap to 99999, made the game compadible with the DLC, and a bunch of minor things, if I remember correctly.
 

Con0rrrr

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I'm a little late, and I know it's already listed under "debunked", but I think at least something was done to Falco.

Something about him is faster and easier to control. It could just be confirmation bias of course, but I feel there really is something there. Lazer is faster in air maybe? Cant tell.
 

BJN39

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IDK if anyone checked Zelda at all and reported stuff like this already, but I went through all of her moves in version 1.0.3 and compared them to the data in my Zelda Data Repository, and here's the things I found so far. (Note, not all are 100% certain.)

Okay, I went through each move of Zelda's to find any changes. There seem to be at least a couple true changes, and a couple POSSIBLE changes that were made:

PS, I tested it all, damages, approx KO %s, angles, etc.

NAir
* The Approximate KO % seems to be changed around a little. It KOs slightly earlier than before on the final hit AT HER HANDS while the center hit-box appears to KO slightly later. (Hands: 242% // Middle: 285%)

Standard Special [1] - Nayru's Love
* This one was probably just something I missed before when testing Nayru's Love, but apparently the center hit-boxes of the final hit are slightly more powerful than the tip hit-boxes. (Center: 277% // Tip: 349%)
* The move's IASA appears to start slightly later. Needs more testing, but when using it it felt slower, and I try to 'memorize' the visual of the IASA "Frame", and the IASA "Frame Visual" looks different than it used to, I think.

Standard Special [3] - Nayru's Passion
* The explosion hit-box feels like it has better range. It felt puny last time I tested the move, and could hardly hit above/below her, but now it feels like it can hit very well above and below her. I'm not sure 100% though if this is a true change.

Down Special [1] - Phantom Slash
* The fully charged phantom slash appears to KO slightly earlier. I'm not 100% sure, but the damage difference seems too large to just be a change-in-testing-style error. (KO%: 136% < Both hits, fully charged. Used to be 145%.)

Down Special [3] - Phantom Breaker
* Similarly to variation 1's power boost, this one appears to have a slight power NERF at full charge. But I'm FAR less sure about this one, as it was only a 4% difference. So THIS one actually could have been a testing-style-change inconsistency.

As you can see, the found changes are very small, and likely won't make an difference in custom variation choice, or competitive viability. Anything you don't see here appeared to be unchanged as far as I could tell. I even tested her pivot grab, and we can rest easy knowing it has the same range. ;)
 
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Teshie U

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Sounds like no one in this thread has two 3DS handy. I have one 1.03 and one 1.02 right in front of me. I don't have a 2nd person however, but does anyone have something that want me to test?
 

HiNiTe

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MK8 2.0 added the on-screen map, bumped up the VR cap to 99999, made the game compadible with the DLC, and a bunch of minor things, if I remember correctly.
Well, duh. That's what I meant by the "obvious notes." But they never explained what they meant by "Other changes to enhance the user experience."
 

TKD

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And I can prove that's bull**** because I still whiff Meta Knight's up-B even if the first hit lands correctly.
Uhh. You have slight control over the angle of each of the 2 hits. You have to control it so both hits land. It's a fantastic move; if the first hit always linked into the second one it'd either be too good or take no skill (and cause complaints). If you know how to use it, only online matches should cause trouble because of the lag.
 
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elmike

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I heard that online mode is smoother...of course this is almost impossible to prove unless there is a major change. But anyone else feels the same?


Balance patches are stupid.

Why not just make do with the characters that are already good and leave the bad ones not played as? Melee is perfectly fine as it is and no one's changing it. It will be a headache to constantly adapt to major gameplay changes when we're just starting to hammer out the high-level play of this game.
Whats perfect about having half of the roster "not being viable" for competitive play or to place high in tournaments?

Balance patches are great unless they break the game/specific character, or make real major changes often (more than once a year for example).

The problem here is that nintendo is not giving details. Thats an annoying problem, maybe even "unfair" :p

I really hope not giving details means that there are no changes at all to gameplay, or that it was a one time mistake.
 

Dantarion

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Sounds like no one in this thread has two 3DS handy. I have one 1.03 and one 1.02 right in front of me. I don't have a 2nd person however, but does anyone have something that want me to test?
I posted something earlier in this thread. I'm updating to 1.0.3 on my good 3ds now to confirm it myself.

If I am right, all of you posting random changes may be wrong.
 
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Sounds like no one in this thread has two 3DS handy. I have one 1.03 and one 1.02 right in front of me. I don't have a 2nd person however, but does anyone have something that want me to test?
I've been trying for a while just to find someone with 1.0.3 so we could test to see if TL was change. If you have two 3DSs and would be willing to see if TL has changed that would be awesome, and I would really appreciate it. His ATs have been confirmed to be unchanged, so I'm just wondering what % his moves (including zair) do in 1.0.3.
I heard that online mode is smoother...of course this is almost impossible to prove unless there is a major change. But anyone else feels the same?
I read other people saying they found the opposite to be true, so it seems unlikely that anything changed with the online mode.
 
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Teshie U

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Local Play definitely worked with no desyncs, Megaman vs Little Mac. I'm pretty sure this patch is just adding text/functionality for Wii U link ups.
 

Thinkaman

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Local Play definitely worked with no desyncs, Megaman vs Little Mac. I'm pretty sure this patch is just adding text/functionality for Wii U link ups.
Screenshots can now be shared. This is the main advertised feature.

It also "fixes" the Conquest interface spoilers.
 

Dantarion

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http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/baseTo103.html
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/102To103.html
From what I see, everyone may be wrong.
The files that I reverse engineered that contain hitbox data, much like the "PSA" files in Brawl, have not been changed since 1.0.2. The files marked as changed in the above link were actually changed in 1.0.2, but the changes are in sound and effects files, so its not really clear what they do, and I am not taking the time to look into it yet.

Anyways, the folder called animcmd contains the scripts used for hitboxes and stuff.
Now, there are still files that we don't understand that have been changed, like the main exe has a bunch of changes, but as far as data goes, heres all the stuff.

I may have done something incorrect, but all of the text changes mentioned show up in my diffs, but all of the hitboxes changes I SHOULD be seeing if posts are correct, are not. There may be some global SDI change in terms of multihit moves, but its not in the character files if there is.

Anyways, Dantarion Out.
 

MitoRequiem

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I feel like everyone is jumping to conclusions or just seeing stuff they want to see lol, I wouldn't expect any character balance changes till Wii U version to be completely honest with you. Not gonna lie though would love if some of these things were true.(Like Marth's range getting buffed hnnnggg)
 

Funkermonster

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I really hope that there are no character-specific changes right now or anytime 2014 still exists. I mean the game's only been out for like a month and a half in Japan and it hasn't been a full month elsewhere. The metagame still came out fresh out of the oven and it's still trying to be unearthed as we speak, and it takes months or even years to unearth the metagame for any Fighting Game and forge Tier Lists, Matchups, and Whatnot. Sure Balance Patches can help out in the long-term run after a year if people (and I mean good people) decide a character needs tweaking, but not if you release them this early in the game's lifespan when it is too early to make tiers and set anything in stone. How are we gonna work with the metagame if you make patches this fast? It's not only kind of annoying, but it makes the unearthing harder for us to do when the game is still as young as a baby.

I'm glad they're seemingly considering balance patches at all, but I worry if they will actually use them wisely. I also hope they're only listening to high level or immediate players on balance suggestions. The creators of Street Fighter 4 and Skullgirls make pretty good use of their balance patches, but I'd imagine Sakurai would listen to anybody who'd make suggestions if the vast majority (like the casual players in Brawl who underrate characters Olimar and overrate ones like Lucas and Ike) gave the same votes, given that he's not a competitive person and turns most of his attentions to the casual crowd for feedback. There's a chance the voters might not be as good at the as they think they are and are just too lazy or unable to find solutions around certain characters, hope that doesn't happen.

That said, I personally am not particularly great at any Smash game and I doubt I'll ever become a pro (not losing hope though!) or semi-pro, and for that reason I think I would have no business thinking of suggestion changes or contributing to matchups or tier making if those are ever a thing.
 

Thinkaman

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but I'd imagine Sakurai would listen to anybody who'd make suggestions if the vast majority (like the casual players in Brawl who underrate characters Olimar and overrate ones like Lucas and Ike) gave the same votes, given that he's not a competitive person and turns most of his attentions to the casual crowd for feedback.
For what it's worth, according to an interview balance for Smash 4 so far was based primarily on votes by a persistent body of 12 top members of the dev team that played every night, who met with Sakurai twice a week.
 

EdreesesPieces

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Because patching a game is easy and they should be able to instantly respond to things with a patch right?

Bugs take time to fix and there are other priorities. On top of that who knows how long ago they finished this particular patch before it was approved, QA tested, and loaded to the eshop of every region.
But doesn't that logic apply to changing knockback and damage? Knockback in particular could create all kinds of issues, infinites and such, they have to check every matchup against a move just to see if their tweak made a difference. It takes a lot of work no matter what you patch, I just find it unlikely they will prioritize spending that time on balancing the characters over fixing glitches that break the game's physics.

You're forgetting this is Nintendo we're talking about.
That's actually a good point. who knows what they are thinking.
 
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BltzZ

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Balance patches are stupid.

Why not just make do with the characters that are already good and leave the bad ones not played as? Melee is perfectly fine as it is and no one's changing it. It will be a headache to constantly adapt to major gameplay changes when we're just starting to hammer out the high-level play of this game.
Because people cry about how OP a character is instead of saying how much their used character sucks lol. But that would be cool if they buffed not so great characters. Like taking away falcos dair startup animation and landing lag =]. But this 1.03 i've read they increased falcos dair hitbox and gave it more meteor smash hit on enemies making them fly down farther but havent confirmed.

Balance patches are stupid.

Why not just make do with the characters that are already good and leave the bad ones not played as? Melee is perfectly fine as it is and no one's changing it. It will be a headache to constantly adapt to major gameplay changes when we're just starting to hammer out the high-level play of this game.
also to add, they couldnt patch melee lol no networking capabilities.

Sounds like no one in this thread has two 3DS handy. I have one 1.03 and one 1.02 right in front of me. I don't have a 2nd person however, but does anyone have something that want me to test?
Short hop falcos dair and see if it create this tripping animation please =/
 
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TheMagicalKuja

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Before 1.0.3, I was able to select music, listen to it, leave the menu and then let the music keep playing when on the CSS for Smash Run.

As of 1.0.3, this no longer exists.

THIS IS NOT AN IMPROVEMENT! NINTENDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
 

IsmaR

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@ BltzZ BltzZ

Please don't post consecutively/more than once in a row, much less 3 times in a row.

Either use your edit button to add to your last post, or wait for somebody else to post first.
 

KlefkiHolder

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They made a really nice change to the Conquest competitions. Before it would show the percentages of points to show which group/character was winning the most games. Now they're all hidden, which means you can't just jump on the bandwagon of the team in the lead to get free wins.
Before 1.0.3, I was able to select music, listen to it, leave the menu and then let the music keep playing when on the CSS for Smash Run.

As of 1.0.3, this no longer exists.

THIS IS NOT AN IMPROVEMENT! NINTENDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Wait you could do this?

Whenever I tried I got my Menu 2 (which is still awesome but its just not the same...)
 

Beninator

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The only reason I worry about Nintendo balance patches is because how they have nerfed in the past... basically ranomdly changing launch angles and deleting kill options, leaving characters completely worthless in the process. See Brawl Sheik, Brawl Peach.

Nintendo thinks making things not kill is cruise control for balance.
Exactly! With few exceptions, I'd rather they just buff the weak and avoid nerfing the strong. Only nerf when broken. If good, just make everyone else good to match!
 

Jaedrik

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http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/baseTo103.html
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/102To103.html
From what I see, everyone may be wrong.
The files that I reverse engineered that contain hitbox data, much like the "PSA" files in Brawl, have not been changed since 1.0.2. The files marked as changed in the above link were actually changed in 1.0.2, but the changes are in sound and effects files, so its not really clear what they do, and I am not taking the time to look into it yet.

Anyways, the folder called animcmd contains the scripts used for hitboxes and stuff.
Now, there are still files that we don't understand that have been changed, like the main exe has a bunch of changes, but as far as data goes, heres all the stuff.

I may have done something incorrect, but all of the text changes mentioned show up in my diffs, but all of the hitboxes changes I SHOULD be seeing if posts are correct, are not. There may be some global SDI change in terms of multihit moves, but its not in the character files if there is.

Anyways, Dantarion Out.
Thank you based Dantarion. You're the kind of people we need.

My roots in the Den Kirson tradition of hacking games apart and demonstrating exact changes exults in things like this over people just claiming what they feel to be different.
 

kyoskue

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I have an unpatched version of the game, what do you want tested, ill record it and you can compare it with another recording. Lets stop this mispread of maybe information its stupid and getting out of hand.
Now I don't put any stock in this, but I've run into someone claiming that Palutena's lag has been reduced all-around. Unfortunately, I haven't used her often enough to counter this claim.
Confirmation from someone in the know one way or the other would be appreciated.
 

Thinkaman

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Now I don't put any stock in this, but I've run into someone claiming that Palutena's lag has been reduced all-around. Unfortunately, I haven't used her often enough to counter this claim.
Confirmation from someone in the know one way or the other would be appreciated.
There are no character moveset changes.
 

Toonation

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Oh so nothing yet good. Was searching on google and Reddit for awhile then came here lol
 

Nashun

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All of my online matches have much more noticeable input lag and much less choppy lag than before.

Edit: and by all i mean like 15 games in a row. smallish sample size but every game felt like playing melee on an HDTV comparatively.
 
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Hapsby

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My buddy told me that megaman's lemons are now doing 1% per shot. I have not patched yet and on 1.02 they do 2% per shot. Who can confirm this?
 

BltzZ

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My buddy told me that megaman's lemons are now doing 1% per shot. I have not patched yet and on 1.02 they do 2% per shot. Who can confirm this?
No it is still doing 2% i just checked it out from up close and farthest possible. can you check and see if falco Short hop dair trips around 23%? or creates a get up animation
 
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Hapsby

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No it is still doing 2% i just checked it out from up close and farthest possible. can you check and see if falco Short hop dair trips around 23%? or creates a get up animation
I don't play falCo much but on 1.02 cannot cause ike or Kirby to fall and do a get up animation with a dair at anything even up to 50%
 

BltzZ

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I don't play falCo much but on 1.02 cannot cause ike or Kirby to fall and do a get up animation with a dair at anything even up to 50%
hmmmm i gotta try it out again i guess thanks for checking really appreciate it
 
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Doval

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You can't play online until you download the change anyway though.
Some people don't care about online play or may have more than one 3DS. They could post the results online for others to exploit.

Edit: Never mind. For some reason I thought you could check conquest results without going through the online menu. Derp.
 
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