CoonTail
Smash Lord
This is what I was getting at Luis, if they aren't directly under us or MK/Marth with huge u-air hitboxes it is never as bad as people think it is. We have options and we need to remember that otherwise you get juggled :/.
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Charizard Tactical Discussion
- Thread starter TheReflexWonder
- Start date
When you Up-B, you can turn yourself in the opposite direction of where you're facing by holding the opposite direction during the first few frames.
While that in itself is no great revelation, I found out that holding back while doing Up-B forward (as in, after holding back won't turn you around) makes you go almost straight up (moreso than holding Up), which gives you more vertical distance. This also works for Squirtle. PT's recovery just got a tiny bit better.
While that in itself is no great revelation, I found out that holding back while doing Up-B forward (as in, after holding back won't turn you around) makes you go almost straight up (moreso than holding Up), which gives you more vertical distance. This also works for Squirtle. PT's recovery just got a tiny bit better.
Gadiel_VaStar
Smash Champion
Reflex, are you going full PT now that MK is banned?
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Ooooh, you didn't know it?
It would have been useful for you (I can't find the match, but you were on BF against a MK and got your Squirtle gimped at like 30% ; you could have recover by pressing left)
It would have been useful for you (I can't find the match, but you were on BF against a MK and got your Squirtle gimped at like 30% ; you could have recover by pressing left)
No; Wario was my original character, and I love using him. That said, I'll definitely use more PT as a result.
I didn't know.
Oh well; I'll know for next time.
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
Charizard Tactical huh?
Intrigued.
Intrigued.
I just gained control of the thread so that I can put all the useful information people have mentioned about each move/tactic/whatever on the OP. It'll take a while to get it together, though.
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
Cool.
Charizard is the only one that I'm good with.
Charizard is the only one that I'm good with.
On the Fire part of Stadium 1, if you do an Up-B from the hole in the center of the stage and hold Forward (left), you have minimal lag. Also, it hits people who are inside the "hole" in the tree.
When you start conditioning people to be afraid of it, you can B-Throw -> dash -> RAR B-Air their mid-air jump, too.
I want to explore what moves we can reliably use Rock Smash to stuff/counter via the shard explosion.
Gods, I need a capture card so I could make all these threads into videos.
So I have a general idea, does anyone know how much damage each individual rock shard does, and how many there are?
Gods, I need a capture card so I could make all these threads into videos.
So I have a general idea, does anyone know how much damage each individual rock shard does, and how many there are?
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Rocksmash stops Kirby CG.
And (It is godlike in hardness) can interrupt Marth's Side B.
And (It is godlike in hardness) can interrupt Marth's Side B.
MaTA
Smash Ace
Generally a lot of the tilts can be broken by rock smash, well timed for mk tornados get destroyed, kirbys grab combo. Marths dancing dragon blade attack or whatever.
B-throw to a read spot dodge is awesome.
B-throw to a read spot dodge is awesome.
Rock comes out on frame 3; if an attack hits it, the shards come out immediately after. The frame 24 (or whatever it is) headbutt is independent of this.
That's why I want to figure out what we can use it for as a counter. I only recently realized that it stuff Falco N-Air approach, and wondered what else I've been missing.
I assume he meant the U-Air, though, yes, you can just SDI it.
CoonTail
Smash Lord
Yes miles meant the u-tilt or U-air can be counter attacked. As far as the list of this I've RS counter attacked its enormus, I mean I almost broke brawl when will and I set off a RS counter when will threw a full charge DK punch.
Basically any move that doesn't provide much priority or safety to their users can be punished. That's why marth's f-air and peach's f-air laugh at RS.
Basically any move that doesn't provide much priority or safety to their users can be punished. That's why marth's f-air and peach's f-air laugh at RS.
Aerials don't have priority; there is only being outranged. My assumption is that the rock/rock shards have ground attack priority, and that any attack that does 11% or more that lasts for at least a couple frames will break the rock and then "eat" the shards.
That means that ground attacks without a long-lasting hitbox, as well as attacks that deal 10% or less, should be hurt by shards. Also, since aerials don't have priority, any aerial with a hitbox lasting longer than a couple frames should just barrel through them.
That means that ground attacks without a long-lasting hitbox, as well as attacks that deal 10% or less, should be hurt by shards. Also, since aerials don't have priority, any aerial with a hitbox lasting longer than a couple frames should just barrel through them.
As an aside, wavebounced Rock Smash is neat, and I think it has some promise, especially against characters that we have trouble dealing with their short-hop spacing tools, like Wolf and Wario. Also, perhaps it could function as a useful anti-juggle tool that allows us to punish people attempting to keep us in the air quite hard. One thing that's sure to be useful with it is baiting at the ledge, for people who expect to punish an airdodge onto the level or an aerial. Jump toward the ledge a bit and then wavebounce Rock Smash. If they're aiming to hit at the ledge, you'll avoid it and hit them. While a simple B-Reversed Rock Smash is easier and safer in general, the fact that you're moving onto the stage before the wavebounce will make people try to punish in a way that you could never elicit via moving away from the ledge and B-Reversing.
It's incredibly simple with B-Sticking, but that takes away Squirtle's Hydrograb, so I feel like doing it the difficult way is necessary. Jump Forward -> press Back+B -> immediately hold Forward.
It's incredibly simple with B-Sticking, but that takes away Squirtle's Hydrograb, so I feel like doing it the difficult way is necessary. Jump Forward -> press Back+B -> immediately hold Forward.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
I didn't think that D-Throw -> regrab was a thing.
CoonTail
Smash Lord
Lol if we are still talking about Kirby then I'm 100% d-throw -> regrab is not a thing. I was playing kirby all this weekend and it's always the gonzo chain from 2008 never dthrow -> regrab
F-Throw -> U-Air -> U-Tilt -> B-Air was the Kirby standard. Now after U-Air, Kirby players guess; they'll either try that or jump up with another U-Air to catch a jump.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Oh my bad, I meant Fthrow haha. I have not played AS Kirby for like a year so I forgot its the Fthrow.
But yes Rocksmash with interrupt a Fthrow > Regrab at 0%.
But yes Rocksmash with interrupt a Fthrow > Regrab at 0%.
CoonTail
Smash Lord
LOL Tesh you don't seem to get it, RS counter attack does not come out on frame 24, it comes out on frame 3 because after the f-throw Kirby U-air's thus breaking the rock and causing the counter to go off on FRAME 3.
Thats why Zard can break this combo with RS.
Thats why Zard can break this combo with RS.
Holy crap, U-Smash out of shield. I don't know why I only really tried it with Ivysaur, but this is matchup changing, for sure. I feel like my Charizard is so good now just because I know the glory that is U-Smash out of shield. I kind of like it with Squirtle, too, as it nets me earlier KOs than I would have otherwise, but, Jesus Christ. This is paradise.
Supreme Dirt
King of the Railway
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2009
- Messages
- 7,336
Whoa whoa whoa, wait, Reflex, you didn't know?
So godlike eh?
So godlike eh?
T-block
B2B TST
...and then Reflex never lost a game as PT again.
NJel
Smash Rookie
Question About Charizard
I've become REALLY good at short-hopping Charizard's F-Air's, but the problem I am having with it is that when I successfully land them on an opponent they'll take damage but they don't get knocked back by the attack.
I'm quite aware of the Stamina mechanic in the PT's pokemon, but I didn't notice any sign of fatigue on my Charizard when it happens. Maybe I just missed it? Or is there anything I'm missing where I can improve my technique with it?
Thanks in advance!
I've become REALLY good at short-hopping Charizard's F-Air's, but the problem I am having with it is that when I successfully land them on an opponent they'll take damage but they don't get knocked back by the attack.
I'm quite aware of the Stamina mechanic in the PT's pokemon, but I didn't notice any sign of fatigue on my Charizard when it happens. Maybe I just missed it? Or is there anything I'm missing where I can improve my technique with it?
Thanks in advance!
T-block
B2B TST
The outer hitboxes on f-air have no knockback - fatigue has nothing to do with it. If you hit with the inner part of the attack, they'll take the knockback.
Improvements... it's just about when you choose to use the move. When you're thinking about using it, think of it as only covering the space immediately in front of you, rather than the full flame. For that reason, you should probably look to other moves to cover your front (f-tilt, reverse b-air, for example).
Improvements... it's just about when you choose to use the move. When you're thinking about using it, think of it as only covering the space immediately in front of you, rather than the full flame. For that reason, you should probably look to other moves to cover your front (f-tilt, reverse b-air, for example).
NJel
Smash Rookie
Ah, so THAT'S it! :D Thanks, I didn't think about that lol
I tend to use N-Airs and F-Airs a lot <.< but yeah, the problem I was having was my F-Airs would hit, but wouldn't knock back so I'd put myself right smack in front of my opponent with JUST a fraction of enough recovery to get knocked off stage by a smash attack lol
I still have a lot to learn, and N-Airs.... well, I use it to keep the opponent at bay, but I find they're sometimes too slow all around; then again, I'm probably just not using it right. That's why I'm going through and reading the sticky's for the PT page =)
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Yeah Zards upsmash out of shiled raaaapes. I have said that hella. Definitely matchup changing. You can shield cape essentially.